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Breakout Kings: From the People Who Brought You 'Prison Break'


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#571

thuganomics85

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Posted May 2, 2012 @ 1:25 PM

Now that I think about, I wonder why Gregg Henry automatically thinks Ray is the main culprit and it just going to the cons for answers. I mean, with the history they have, someone could easily suspect it was Lloyd that shoved Damien off the building. Or they even would look at Erica, giving that they still think she killed five guys, but they just can't prove it, so killing someone bad isn't new to her. Now, since we've seen it, we know he's right that it was Ray, but unless he knows more then he's let on, I can't see why he's 100% sure Ray was responsible for Damien's death.

Of course, all this speculation means is that I really want a third season to get the answers! Come on, A&E!

#572

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Posted May 2, 2012 @ 1:30 PM

I wonder why Gregg Henry automatically thinks Ray is the main culprit and it just going to the cons for answers.


Besides just having it in for Ray, it was Ray's daughter that Damien kidnapped. Knowing that Ray can have a temper (I don't think that's a secret), it's not the biggest supposition to think Ray may have pushed Damien off the roof.

#573

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Posted May 2, 2012 @ 2:40 PM

Now that I think about, I wonder why Gregg Henry automatically thinks Ray is the main culprit and it just going to the cons for answers...

It could have been Lloyd. He said in front of everyone it was his fault, and if you listen to the phone logs, he was clearly becoming unhinged under the bridge.

It makes sense Ray is a suspect because of the daughter, but the guy didn't day that. He just said: something is dirty because Ray is involved. So it's obvious something is fishy.

I wouldn't be surprised either, the way the episode ended, if the next thing was to ask for lawyers or put the offer in writing.

The real sticky thing is that there is the evidence Damien was pushed.

Edited by ganesh, May 2, 2012 @ 3:48 PM.


#574

cmm226

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Posted May 2, 2012 @ 5:42 PM

Actually, never mind. I'll just agree to disagree.

It makes sense Ray is a suspect because of the daughter, but the guy didn't day that. He just said: something is dirty because Ray is involved.

It could be they haven't gotten to that part in the conversation yet.

I wouldn't be surprised either, the way the episode ended, if the next thing was to ask for lawyers or put the offer in writing.

That's the only way I'd take the deal. Didn't the cons insist in having their original deal in writing in the first place?

Edited by cmm226, May 2, 2012 @ 5:51 PM.


#575

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Posted May 2, 2012 @ 11:34 PM

I'm obviously speculating based on what we saw in the episode. I thought it was an odd choice of dialogue: I know something is fishy because Ray is involved, versus, I think Ray wanted some revenge for kidnapping his kid and I want to find out what happened. The guy clearly has it out for Ray, is my point. Rather than just running an investigation he's got it in for Ray. So I was wondering why, since we don't know what Ray was like prior to the evidence theft.

I swear Shea asked for the original deal in writing. But I'm not that confident. I thought there was a similar scene with the three of them sitting together with Charlie laying out the deal.

#576

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Posted May 3, 2012 @ 7:05 AM

So I was wondering why, since we don't know what Ray was like prior to the evidence theft.

I can see Ray being kind of a pushy, loud person and rubbing a lot of the people the wrong way. He's also kind of aggressively blue collar in a job that obviously has a lot of office types. He may just have never fit in. (although, why didn't have any money for his daughters car? Does the Marshall service not pay pretty decently? I know it's not a lawyer type job, but I would think it would be enough to pay for a used car. Maybe Ray is just not good with money).

I swear Shea asked for the original deal in writing. But I'm not that confident.

Shea was definately worried about it at some point. I think it came up when they found out Ray was a con at the very least, although I don't think they did get it in writing that I recall.

#577

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Posted May 3, 2012 @ 10:05 AM

why didn't have any money for his daughters car? Does the Marshall service not pay pretty decently? I know it's not a lawyer type job, but I would think it would be enough to pay for a used car. Maybe Ray is just not good with money).

Ray had been recently divorced, his ex may have taken half his money in the split. He also probably had to continue to pay alimony and child support, all of which makes it difficult to save money.

Edited by kariyaki, May 3, 2012 @ 1:50 PM.


#578

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Posted May 3, 2012 @ 12:32 PM

I can see Ray being kind of a pushy, loud person and rubbing a lot of the people the wrong way.

I think Ray back then was exactly like he was now, "I just told you he's not here. I have work to do, so fuck out the door." That doesn't mean he was written up on any official disciplinary incidents though. It doesn't rule it out either, but I'm not really buying it.

He's seems a lot smarter than people think. It was his idea to use the cons to capture runners. Cons that he actually caught. Charlie was a desk guy and they ended up working well together. And even with the daughter kidnapped, he came up with the plan to flush Damien out. Maybe they could get on his case about shooting the religious runner, but as it was pointed out, that was SOP and by the book.

I'm thinking maybe he's one of those guys that always toed the line; roughing up the criminals a bit. Not extremely difficult to work with, but not easy either. But I still can't grasp at why this investigator said he was out to get Ray. I'm assuming they are going to make up some backstory to support it.

#579

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Posted May 3, 2012 @ 3:24 PM

"At the office,Charlie speaks to Deputy Richard Wendell,the Marshall's new Chief Director and Director Knox's new boss.Wendell holds a file and goes through a list of "unorthodox practices" the team has used thus far.He tells Charlie he has mixed feelings about the task force and informs him that he's going to be keeping a close eye on them,and perhaps "shake things up" a little bit. Any of the cons can be replaced with just about anyone else."

Sorry for the quote, but A&E won't share the recaps with others. Other Wendell parts of the episode:
* Charlie is trying to introduce Wendell, but Lloyd interrupts to ask Wendell if he "wants to hear a tasty joke." C Wendell stares at him. Later Charlie tells the others about how Wendell wants to send one of them back and take credit for himself for the task force, so he(Charlie) wants the Kings to "play it straight" because he won't be able to help them. Also, Lloyd apologized to Charlie for earlier. Wendell had promised to keep an eye on them.

*After a runner is nailed by a bus during a foot chase, Wendell rants about catching criminals, not killing them. Charlie tries to explain the circumstances, but Wendell doesn't care and tells them to get on track.

*Wendell walks in as Shea' and Charlie are in each other's face (over Shea being in Attica to find out info) and tells Charlie he wants to speak to him. They enter the interrogation room. Lloyd puts on the speaker. Charlie starts apologizing for the outburst, but Wendell says the cons are safe; it's Ray that needs to go. Charlie defends Ray, but to Wendella dirty cop's always going to be a dirty cop.Charlie, pissed, tells of Wendell and he tells Charlie that he(Wendell) can put Charlie back where he came from as well. Charlie tells Wendell he'd rather be behind a desk than on a task force without Ray. Also, since they caught all five runners, if Wendell wanted to write a report, Charlie'd add his two cents.
"Wendell just stares at Charlie, shakes his head, and tells him that if they screw anything up, it's on Charlie."

The title of the episode comes from the scene between Charlie and Wendell, in response to Wendell's threats, part of Charlie's response is "There are rules." ("You never leave someone hanging.")

So, Wendell is another 'mean bastard' villain. Maybe he's done bad too, but gotten away with it? Or is that too trope-y?
Again, sorry for all the quotations, but I thought it might help us understand and speculate from a stronger place. Yay facts!

#580

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Posted May 3, 2012 @ 10:59 PM

I suppose then maybe this new guy could have started tracking Charlie's and Ray's reports with the task force and noticed it was pretty fast and loose. I mean, they are giving cons guns. Maybe with Charlie dying, Damien escaping, and Ray in charge, the task force might be under audit.

How long of a real-life time span was this season? Clearly, not too long since Charlie's wife in still in morning. I'm wondering how the sequence of this season played out from an outsiders POV.

#581

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Posted May 6, 2012 @ 12:20 AM

Finally caught up with the finale. Thank god for eps online! I can't imagine that any of the cons would flip on Ray. Firstly, Gregg Henry is so slimy and screams "don't trust me!" And I just don't see them essentially betraying the entire team. Given what Shea just did for Erica (which she did not at all deserve) and what they've all just been through, I don't see them turning on each other.

I also thought (briefly) that Damien was targeting Lloyd's mother (instead of a random old lady). I guess it seems odd that he didn't, given that he was hitting every other raw nerve in Lloyd's life. But maybe it was more twisted to put the pressure on via Ray's daughter.

Any 24 fans here? Lloyd being ordered to shoot Max was very reminiscent of when Jack Bauer had orders to kill the unlikeable but innocent Ryan Chappelle. Now THAT was great TV. No offense to BOK, but shooting a scumbag is not the same as having to shoot a completely ordinary person.

I wondered why they didn't simply stage Max's death to trick Damien with some fake bullets and blood. I didn't foresee that Max would end being comic relief! There was a moment at their HQ where they're all on the phone and the pantyhosed Max is in the background. In one shot it looked like Max had disappeared so I was surprised to see him back in the next shot. I fully expected him to escape again. (And worst origin story ever? Yipe!)

I did like the Dash Mihok episode, btw. Probably Shea should have kept those newspapers up on the windows at the office because the very next ep, Demian is spying on them.

And if you're on that team, you might want to subcutaneously install trackers on every member of your family!

#582

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Posted May 6, 2012 @ 5:50 AM

However the reason Shea saved Erica was because of the initial all for one and one for all deal, even if the Marshals didn't live up to it when replacing two kings and when Lloyd quit. Erica being outed would have meant no more months off of their sentence and a return to one of New York's max security prisons for their remaining years.

#583

bulldawgtownie

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Posted May 6, 2012 @ 2:18 PM

Of all the people Erica could have been in a relationship with, Erica sure aimed low

He was a booty call

I think it's important to remember Erica's circumstance. She in a fairly controlling evironmnt and has a very limited number of men to select from. The guy downstairs seemed reasonably intelligent, was a business owner, someone whom Erica found attracive and IIRC didn't care that she was a con and was geniunely interested in her. Which, to me, explains why Erica was so into him he was definitely more than just a booty call.

Didn't the cons insist in having their original deal in writing in the first place?

From what I remember they tried but Charlie told them that their deal was real and to take the deal as is or they could go back to their maximum security prisons and he'd get new cons to replace them.

They may have served in combat together but they have not given us a reason for Shea to save Ray at the cost of years in prison

However they've shown throughout the series that Shea has an intense distrust of the government. He may hold no love for Ray but there's absolutely no reason to think that deal is legit or to trust that they won't get screwed over by any additional charges.

I wonder why Gregg Henry automatically thinks Ray is the main culprit and it just going to the cons for answers. I mean, with the history they have, someone could easily suspect it was Lloyd that shoved Damien off the building

Literally since the first episode we've seen that Ray is an aggresive, confrontational person, who has questionable impulse control and out of those four I'd assume he'd be the one to push a person off the roof. In addition he was the only one with real motive since Damian had kidnapped his daughter. Plus Llyod hasn't done anything to indicate he's capable of directly killing someone and both Shea and Erica are too smart to kill someone in front of a federal marshall. Combine all of that with Henry's dislike for Ray and his wanting Ray to have done it so he can take away Ray's badge put Ray in jail.

Edited by bulldawgtownie, May 6, 2012 @ 2:45 PM.


#584

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Posted May 6, 2012 @ 2:45 PM

However the reason Shea saved Erica was because of the initial all for one and one for all deal, even if the Marshals didn't live up to it when replacing two kings and when Lloyd quit.

Shea was definitely motivated by self-interest. Since he never really threatens anyone like that, I think he was royally pissed at Erica. I'm still not convinced that guy isn't going to talk. You figure this new investigator might bring up that the office was broken into.

I think it's important to remember Erica's circumstance. She in a fairly controlling evironmnt and has a very limited number of men to select from. The guy downstairs seemed reasonably intelligent, was a business owner, someone whom Erica found attracive and IIRC didn't care that she was a con and was geniunely interested in her. Which, to me, explains why Erica was so into him he was definitely more than just a booty call.

I think the fact that the guy was pretty "whatever" about her being a con was what motivated her to do the search for him. She's a normal, horny woman who was taking advantage of the situation. I don't think she was in love with him or anything. I figured she thought it was an fwb type thing.

Literally since the first episode we've seen that Ray is an aggresive, confrontational person, who has questionable impulse control and out of those four I'd assume he'd be the one to push a person off the roof. In addition he was the only one with real motive since Damian had kidnapped his daughter. Plus Llyod hasn't done anything to indicate he's capable of directly killing someone and both Shea and Erica are too smart to kill someone in front of a federal marshall.

Ray is all that, but he's been shown to be good po-lice. He was the one that caught the cons in the first place and he came up with the idea for the Breakout Kings. So I wouldn't say he's just another hot head cop. Also, Lloyd was completely unraveled under the bridge, and if the investigator listens to the phone logs, it's not nuts to think maybe Lloyd did it.

Edited by ganesh, May 6, 2012 @ 10:44 PM.


#585

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Posted May 6, 2012 @ 11:56 PM

Any 24 fans here? Lloyd being ordered to shoot Max was very reminiscent of when Jack Bauer had orders to kill the unlikeable but innocent Ryan Chappelle. Now THAT was great TV. No offense to BOK, but shooting a scumbag is not the same as having to shoot a completely ordinary person.

Yes! That was definitely one of the best "oh no they didn't!" moments on 24. In all fairness, though, setting aside the moral weight of it, Lloyd had way more to personally lose by shooting the guy then Jack did (if I recall the Prez told Jack he would get a full pardon); plus Jack was a superspy with steely nerves who had likely killed many others before, and Lloyd is, well, Lloyd, a wimpy guy who still considers himself a doctor ("first do no harm" and all that). I guess my point is that the fact that I bought that Lloyd was actually seriously considering killing the guy is a testament to both the acting and the writing in this epi.

#586

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Posted May 7, 2012 @ 12:07 PM

So I wouldn't say he's just another hot head cop. Also, Lloyd was completely unraveled under the bridge, and if the investigator listens to the phone logs, it's not nuts to think maybe Lloyd did it.

Just because he has also done some good police work doesn't mean he's not still a 'hot headed cop'.

Also, we know the investigator is right on the money in suspecting Ray so why should we look at other cons. Damien shot Ray's partner and kidnapped his daughter and he's already a pushy guy. I agree with the earlier poster who mentioned that Lloyd has nothing in his background that would make you think he would kill someone in cold blood. The girl he 'killed' actually killed herself. Why worry about who they should suspect. They've gone through the evidence and come up with the exact right conclusion so obviously the investigator was doing something right.

#587

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Posted May 7, 2012 @ 4:18 PM

I agree that that investigator is not wrong to look harshly at Ray. The guy's grown on me but his impulse control is questionable and he did kill Damien who, IMO, needed to be tossed off a building. As regards Ray's leadership of the task force, it's a wonder lawsuits aren't descending on the Marshal Service from all sides. Ray's given weapons to convicted felons (in circumstances in which he genuinely needed back-up, but still...) Convicted felons have teamed up and gone out to follow up leads without any direct supervision from the Marshal Service. Erica assaulted a man on the threshold of his own home (not a nice man but one with connections - perhaps he had a quiet word with the Investigator?) Erica also was able to enter a FWB relationship with a man in the building and then give him privileged information from the Marshals' database. It's all on Erica, certainly, but under Ray's supervision. I don't want the team to be broken up and I enjoy their post-Charlie bond with Ray, but I don't think an investigation of Ray is out of line.

Edited by irishmaple, May 7, 2012 @ 4:19 PM.


#588

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Posted May 7, 2012 @ 6:48 PM

Erica assaulted a man on the threshold of his own home (not a nice man but one with connections - perhaps he had a quiet word with the Investigator?) Erica also was able to enter a FWB relationship with a man in the building and then give him privileged information from the Marshals' database. It's all on Erica, certainly, but under Ray's supervision.

Not only that, but Erica is the one who Ray thinks is their star MVP and should be second in command (and who should get steak dinners if they are being dolled out. Yes I'm still mad about that). Because she obviously has great judgement. The fact that Ray thinks that she's the best is on him. I think he's being led by little ray, personally.

I will say it's totally ridiculous that Ray (and Charlie before him) didn't have backup who could carry a weapon. They are chasing dangerous, generally armed criminals here. They need backup in the worst way.

#589

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Posted May 7, 2012 @ 8:05 PM

Ray's being investigated because of Damien, not all those other things though. Which could come to light as the investigation continues. My bone was that the guy said he knew something was wrong because Ray was involved [assuming he isn't privy to everything that went on this season], and we haven't really gotten an indication of what Ray's past in the Marshal's was like. Just because people think you're a dick or you're hot headed doesn't mean you did something illegal in your job. Excepting the theft of the cash, obviously. The actual line of dialogue just seemed tacked on and unnecessary, given that there's evidence Damien was pushed.

Why even compromise the investigation by saying you basically have it out for Ray? Coupled with the "everyone says you're a dick" line, I am wondering if TPTB have a backstory in place for Ray for S3. I can totally buy if he had discipline problems or was one of those guys who always toed the line.

What I find interesting is that while Ray is all that, he's actually a smart field agent. The cons are leery of this new deal, but I'm wondering if Ray will do an end around on the investigator and get this to go away. I want him to get away with it. If Damien had made a move to pull a gun and Ray shot him, I don't think there would be a huge investigation. I also hope if there's an S3 [please!] that this doesn't drag out all season.

#590

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Posted May 7, 2012 @ 9:47 PM

Wendell (Gregg Henry's character) was shown last season as an assy, humorless bureaucrat that wants all the glory. He is inflexible about others meeting his standards and apparently doesn't believe in second chances unless he is the one with the idea to hand 'em out. I would like to think there's something deeper going on between Wendell and Ray- selfishly so because Gregg Henry makes me love to hate his characters so freakin' hard!- but I'm afraid he may just be an assy bureaucrat. *sigh*

I'd also like more on Shea next season. Shea is like Shere Khan- quietly deadly, but no fool. I want to see this in action. Not the deadly, necessarily, but the entrepenuer that was hinted at with the ashy elbow device. Malcolm is a great face/ eye actor.

#591

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Posted May 7, 2012 @ 10:37 PM

]Just because people think you're a dick or you're hot headed doesn't mean you did something illegal in your job. Excepting the theft of the cash, obviously

The thing is you have to check common sense at the door to accept that Ray is back in the Marshals Service more so then you do that convicts are being used as consultants in fugitive manhunts. They went as far as incarcerating him, in a halfway house but still lost his freedom You don't really get your badge back after that. Even if charlie was holding it for him when they were not on a hunt.

Edited by taiko, May 7, 2012 @ 10:38 PM.


#592

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Posted May 7, 2012 @ 11:33 PM

Has the show been renewed for a third season?

#593

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Posted May 7, 2012 @ 11:59 PM

I don't think if Charlie was alive that Ray would be a Marshal yet. Because it was so easy for him to be reinstated, I was guessing that he didn't have any other violations on his record. If the theft was a big violation on top of a lot of other minor ones, then I don't think it would have happened.

#594

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Posted May 11, 2012 @ 1:33 PM

musetta, true, you can't really compare Jack Bauer and Lloyd Lowery but I couldn't help but think of 24. And that did have a huge impact on Jack (and earned Kiefer an Emmy for that season, iirc). Lloyd would really have fallen apart if he'd had to kill Max. It would have really upped the ante, imho, if Damien had ordered Lloyd to kill Ray. Or Julianne. I'm surprised, for a twisted genius, that Damien didn't go there.

Oh, how I miss 24, even when it completely left the realm of reality. Touch just isn't really cutting it for me.

Edited by HalfDutch, May 11, 2012 @ 1:34 PM.


#595

AimingforYoko

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Posted May 17, 2012 @ 6:20 PM

Cancelled.

#596

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Posted May 17, 2012 @ 7:11 PM

Nooooooooo!! I was having a good day up until I read that. A few of my other shows didn't make it past this season but Breakout Kings is the only one I'm really sorry to lose.

#597

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Posted May 17, 2012 @ 8:29 PM

Damn, I can't believe it. The show had some flaws but had some of the best characters. I thought the second season was a big improvement over the first.

Chicago Fire? The name alone turns me off. Sounds like something only a studio executive could get excited about.

#598

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Posted May 17, 2012 @ 9:26 PM

I'm bummed I think I liked this season more than the first.

Entertainment weekly's article on it has more and "how it would have ended"

“How it ends,” Santora wrote, “[Breakout Kings] pretend to turn Ray in but double cross Marshals so they go free & Ray walks. Shea gets rich w/ elbow savers…Erica raises daughter in the country. Ray starts private security biz, lives near his daughter. Lloyd & Jules marry. Name their son Charlie.”



#599

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Posted May 17, 2012 @ 9:33 PM

The "end" sounds a bit like fanfic but I'll take it, I guess. I really liked the show, especially the second season.

I'm sad to see it go.

#600

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Posted May 17, 2012 @ 9:40 PM

The "end" sounds a bit like fanfic


Yeah, not what really would have happened but it was nice they threw a happy ending out there.