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#481

nodorothyparker

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Posted Aug 11, 2013 @ 10:15 AM

The Mormon story and Ruth's commentary about them didn't really bother me. This was after all a time in history when the group was being pushed west because of fear and suspicion against them and there had been a number of violent confrontations between men of the church and outsiders.  Sometimes the character of Ruth can be a bit of a struggle and a lot to take because she's the voice of the common idea throughout much of American history that mainstream Protestant Christianity was always a benevolent civilizing force and the default for all good decent people.

 

I will be curious to see how much of the Mormon/religious element we get as the railroad and the story push farther into the west.


Edited by nodorothyparker, Aug 11, 2013 @ 10:19 AM.

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#482

Powrhug

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Posted Aug 11, 2013 @ 10:58 AM

Ruth's commentary about Mormons didn't bother me either because really she was set up as a stereotype of the Christian mentality toward Mormons at that time.

 

Pretty much equal stereotyping going on and pretty sure both were (at least partially) accurate at that point.


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#483

Ohwell

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Posted Aug 11, 2013 @ 11:11 AM

I really enjoyed last night's show.  So much going on I'm still trying to process. 

 

I think Elam's ambition will harm his relationship with Eva; she gave him a rather curious look in one scene when she was holding the baby.  I know some people were upset about Lily getting killed, but I was more upset that Mr. Toole conveniently shot himself to clear the way for Elam/Eva.

 

I didn't know what to make of Cullen's tryst with the Mormon girl; maybe he did see Lily in her, as others have speculated. 


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#484

Lightowl

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Posted Aug 11, 2013 @ 1:51 PM

Yes, Elam said Eva didn't want him being the Railroad policeman because it would get him killed. And now he's basically the first man in when stuff goes own, so she's scared for him and angry that he's risking his life and their family.
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#485

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Posted Aug 11, 2013 @ 2:00 PM

 

 

Ruth's commentary about Mormons didn't bother me either because really she was set up as a stereotype of the Christian mentality toward Mormons at that time.

 

Darn quote thing doesn't want to work for me.  

 

Remember Ruth wasn't real gracious to Catholics either.  It was the mind set of protestants of the era.  And many still today.  


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#486

madam magpie

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Posted Aug 11, 2013 @ 10:15 PM

Random thoughts:

 

Not a fan of the new "modern" reporter woman. I think she's too modern, actually. I know there were female reporters around the turn of the 19th century and don't know how many there were in the 1860s, but it seems unlikely that she'd be the person a paper would send.

 

The bit with the Mormon girl is realistic time-wise, I guess, but it seems out of character for a man whose only sexual escapades we've seen include turning down a young prostitute and having sex with a woman he was totally into. That's not to say there's no way he would have done it, but the audience only knows what the writers tell them, and nothing they've told us before now really supports screwing a kid in a barn. And yeah, yeah, I know what Anson Mount said, but that just seems like BS to me.

 

Perhaps I missed something, but didn't Cullen go into a Catholic Church and tell a crucifix he was sorry? And then he called the priest "reverend" and said he and his high society wife were married there? That would NEVER have happened. Catholics were still maligned and hated in the 1860s. It was the religion of dirty immigrants coming in by the boatload and stealing good Protestant Americans' jobs. No upper crusty Southern plantation owner would have set foot in a Catholic Church, much less gotten married there. Seems like sloppy research to me. People were defined by religion in those days.

 

I also agree with the poster who mentioned that the language used is way too modern and not 19th century enough at all. "Oldest one's twelve going on forty"? Please. No one would have said that in 1867.

 

I liked all the interactions between Cullen and Elam. Love Psalms. Love that the baby is a girl. I liked that police chief guy. Too bad he had to go. Wish Ruth were dead instead of Lily, but love that Lily wasn't buried in that shit hole. The field of flowers was a nice touch.


Edited by madam magpie, Aug 11, 2013 @ 10:24 PM.

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#487

PhPhan

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Posted Aug 11, 2013 @ 11:07 PM

I didn't read the interview with Anson about the Morman girl in the barn.  If he has to explain it, the writers aren't doing their job.  It was totally out of character.   Plus the girl looked like she was 17.  


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#488

Lightowl

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Posted Aug 12, 2013 @ 12:02 AM

Even if she was meant to be 17, given the time, you'd be married with a baby or two by 17. Can't judge 1867 by 2013 convention.
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#489

madam magpie

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Posted Aug 12, 2013 @ 12:39 AM

Teenage girls didn't usually have random sex in barns with strange men, however. If we aren't judging their time by ours, we have to judge it all that way. Yes, sexual promiscuity and one-night stands have existed since the beginning of time, but the doers weren't generally young Mormon girls. That aside, the bigger issue for me was that it seemed totally out of character for Cullen. If we'd seen him with prostitutes all along, sure. But not only was he not shown with them, he was specifically shown turning them down. And "it's been a long lonely winter and he couldn't help himself" is BS. I'm sure this wasn't his first winter without someone to have sex with, and the dude still has his hand.   


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#490

Elysiannn

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Posted Aug 12, 2013 @ 8:43 AM

I LOVED the 2-hour season premier. And the thing about Cullen is what we know about Cullen is only a scratch on the surface. So having sex in the barn with a giving mormon girl is part of the rest of Cullen we are getting to know. I think more telling was him trying to avoid a conflict with the Mormons and being horribly disappointed in all the "men" at the hanging. And I'm hoping that "a life" which is owed to the worst father is a baby from the tryst with his daughter.

 

I can forgive all the moderisms, the plot holes and contrivances because I love being immersed in this "Hell on Wheels Universe" and it is so good to see Mr. Bohannon again.


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#491

taiko

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Posted Aug 12, 2013 @ 9:05 AM

It is one thing to brush aside public prostitutes, especially when you are in upper management. Look at Lily and Durant.. It is another to brush aside a secret and willing partner after we presume some healing from the Civil War and the Hell on Wheels battles during the winter exile period.
 
As far as the teenagers and sex, judging from the Hatfield and McCoy's miniseries and other sources our ancestors may have been more active sexually at a younger age then we like to tell our children about. As a family girl out in the middle of nowhere waiting for   the chosen son in a polygamist community to cross their path or a stranger, a  powerful enough man who would probably have to convert to the LDS church to be acceptable to papa might start to seem to be a forlorn hope.

Edited by taiko, Aug 12, 2013 @ 10:22 AM.

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#492

NYC2007

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Posted Aug 12, 2013 @ 10:18 AM

I agree that the sex in the barn was a little jarring based on our previous experience with Cullen.  I'm assuming as others have mentioned that it's going to lead to something more.  Perhaps the Mormon father will be the new Swede?

 

Overall, I was really happy with the show being back and the episode.


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#493

taiko

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Posted Aug 12, 2013 @ 12:01 PM

I will be curious to see how much of the Mormon/religious element we get as the railroad and the story push farther into the west.

Probably no more about the faith then Ruth's and the reverends holiness leanings, however how it affects the society seems to be being set up with Papa Mormon's warning. The episode got me thinking when I got past the prejudice of expecting the father to give himself up that in a polygamous community the biggest social problem is bound to be excess sons. The fortunate man who does become the husband and father to many would be protected by those sons who when they look deep must think about getting their own family much like those looking to be a star athlete  but then see every other and many boys standing in their way. Thus they are more willing to give up their life for the team, then some random kid


Edited by taiko, Aug 12, 2013 @ 12:02 PM.

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#494

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Posted Aug 12, 2013 @ 3:03 PM

http://tvbythenumber...age-2/#comments

 

On Saturday night, AMC’s Hell On Wheels returned with a two-hour season three premiere, delivering 2.5 million viewers, up 2% from the season two premiere and double AMC’s Saturday prime time average.

 


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#495

VegetasMom

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Posted Aug 14, 2013 @ 3:01 PM

I think the scene in the barn also seemed out of character, but it didn't help that the scene was apparently truncated.  It seemed very abrupt and didn't have context.  Oh, there's Cullen and some random daughter/wife of the household - where did she come from?  I know Anson Mount fought to keep it in, but without context it just seemed sort of strange.  


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#496

ShortTimer

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Posted Aug 15, 2013 @ 2:25 AM

That's great news on the ratings. Let's hope they hold up well for the next episode.

 

Re: the barn scene: After thinking about it, I can kind of see it as Cullen deciding that he's done with serious involvement, but it just wasn't handled well. One line of dialog could have cleared up a lot -- "I'm not looking for a wife" -- or whatever. The choppiness didn't help, and Mr. Mount's explanation makes even less sense given what we've seen from this character.


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#497

PhPhan

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Posted Aug 15, 2013 @ 11:12 AM

Sometimes actors should just act.  


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#498

shron17

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Posted Aug 15, 2013 @ 11:30 AM

I liked that they left the scene, and also that Anson Mount fought to keep it in.  Though the way it was filmed was abrupt, I think some young girls have been acting on their hormones in similar ways (Mormon or not) since the beginning of time.  After the long winter Cullen had, he probably just wanted to feel alive.  I don't think Cullen was looking for a wife/serious involvement when he met Lilly either--it just happened.  She was able to pull him out of grieving/revenging his wife and child, which was a very good thing, and now he just wants to keep on living.


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#499

taiko

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Posted Aug 17, 2013 @ 11:39 PM

Swede!!!!, you're back


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#500

thuganomics85

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Posted Aug 17, 2013 @ 11:41 PM

So, to the surprise of probably few, The Swede is still alive.  Sounded like he might have been saved by Indians, but now he's chilling with this religious group.  I have no idea if his kindness towards them and prayer was serious in anyway, or all an act.  You can't ever trust that man!

 

Mr. Toole (RIP) apparently had a brother, who has come on over to Hell on Wheels to try and get Eva and her baby, because it its their "custom" for the brother to wed the widow.  Reminds me of of Deadwood, when Bullock did the same with Martha.  Of course, neither Eva or Elam want this to happen, so I'm sure this is going to get ugly.

 

First Cullen/Durant confrontation.  Crazy stuff with Durant apparently getting those guys to steal the cattle, and Cullen/Elam killing them all. Loved Cullen bringing the one guy's corpse to the sit-down.  And this new Maggie character could end up being a big player.  She is now selling Cullen her cattle at a discount, but seems to be working with Durant as well.  Hmm...

 

Have a feeling the Union soldiers will continue to cause problems for Cullen and the rest.

 

Got more of Mickey.  Looks like while Sean will continue working for Cullen (and being Durant's mole), Mickey will run the bar and whorehouse.  Seems like he's taking a stone-cold approach to it as well.  Ruth continues to be more interesting now that she's away from Eddie.  Liked her scene with Cullen.  Still indifferent to Louise/reporter lady.  Boo to no Psalms.

 

Next week: pretty sure I saw Adam Beach was one of the Indians!  Yay!!


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#501

taiko

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Posted Aug 17, 2013 @ 11:49 PM

I wonder how far they are going to take that batshit insane Major


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#502

ShortTimer

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Posted Aug 18, 2013 @ 12:43 AM

Well, Bohannon is in for a lot more than he probably ever imagined. Durant just kept things rolling and didn't have much, if any, morality about it. Cullen seemed willing to push things -- the strike episode last season is one example -- but he didn't really understand, I don't think, just what was involved.

 

Maybe the best line of the night was the very unpleasant major's one about opening the way to the "greatest nation," which made Cullen see what that really will cost. Except, his moral side is plaguing him. Not stopping him -- he called for more soldiers -- but still plaguing him. This will probably take a real personal toll, doing what it takes to keep building yet still trying to keep his moral center (taking the heads back to the burial ground was a nice touch). Interesting that he keeps going to Ruth as his conscience, but this man just keeps getting torn down. The railroad may end up being far worse than losing either of his loves. ... I could see it killing him by the end.

 

Sigh. I'm kind of sorry to see the Swede. Hmm. Mr. Anderson... after Andersonville? Of course he was going to show up again, but who knows what he's up to. Maybe exacting his revenge on Bohannon has cleared his mind in some way, but I expect he'll stir trouble one way or another. He's putting on quite a performance already... if the Swede is anything, he's a survivor.

 

Declan Toole is an interesting development. I thought Mr. Toole (Gregory) said that his brother wouldn't accept Eva if the baby turned out to be Elam's -- but this guy seems like he's very straight-and-narrow, following duty above all else. I wonder if that will change if the baby does turn out to be Elam's. Seems like that would be the story arc.

 

Hard to say this early, but the story feels deeper this season. A good thing, but also harder to watch in terms of harshness. The description of the exceptionally brutal life of a prostitute was no doubt realistic, but wow.


Edited by ShortTimer, Aug 18, 2013 @ 12:52 AM.

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#503

ikmccall

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Posted Aug 18, 2013 @ 5:58 AM

Not to seem shallow but it looks like Cullen might have three potential love interests--reporter, ranch lady and Ruth?  Or is Ruth just his sounding board? 

 

I don't think that Declan really wants to marry Eva but is in town for some nefarious reason.


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#504

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Posted Aug 18, 2013 @ 11:18 AM

My PVR failed to record the season premiere last Saturday (satellite loves to drop the SD signal but rarely fails with the HD one which drives me nuts but whatever...) so I caught the morning re-broadcast and then marathoned it with last night's episode.  That was a lot of Hell on Wheels but all of it was absorbing so I wasn't complaining.

 

Bohannon in the snow was just sad and that must have been a harsh winter, physically and emotionally.  Every time I see things like that it makes me very grateful I live in a world with central heating.  I loved that scene of Bohannon telling the tailor to shoot his pelt coat before burning it.  I get that the wolf scene was necessary for Bohannon to decide on life over hypothermia but would even a starving animal on its own attack a full-grown human male?  It seemed overly-ambitious.  A wolf attack that seems personal rights false to me and I've seen it a few times now, in the new not-Jason Bourne and in trailers for that Liam-Neeson-in-Alaska movie.  I know wolves aren't stupid and attacking large humans doesn't seem smart unless the wolves are in a pack and the human is already injured.  It was just a small thing but it bothered me. 

 

I miss Lily and wasn't thrilled to see Ruth return.  I dislike her lecturing Bohannon on his principals.  I know she believes her intentions are good but has she noticed the world outside her chapel is cruel and harsh, filled with injustice and casual violence?  Sometimes I think she has no idea what's going on around her, and it irritates me.  I'd rather Bohannon find a better Morality Pet if he needs one, and I don't think he does.  He over-rides it when he has to, but he already has a functioning moral compass.  Nothing illustrated that better than his reaction to the murder of the Native Americans unfortunate enough to cross paths with the cavalry.  Bohannon didn't hesitate to call for a response when he believed the tribe was responsible for murder and rustling but once he discovered otherwise he called off the cavalry and was clearly plagued by guilt when his second telegram was ignored.  He didn't need Ruth to self-righteously lecture him on ethics.

 

I don't care for Mr. Toole's brother at all.  He seems shifty and untrustworthy.  Mr. Toole was nowhere near noble but he did have his own sense of honour.  Eva continues to be excellent and is now the closest thing the town has to a doctor.  I'm really happy that the show has made her more than a prize in whatever is developing between Elam and the new Mr. Toole.  I'm not actually pleased to see The Swede return.  He was an excellent villain with a memorable run on the show and I felt that his storyline had reached its end.  He's clearly still a bit unhinged and will bring nothing but grief to that family.  Judging by the way he held hands while saying grace, he already considers the wife and son 'his'.  I like Maggie, the ranch lady who seems to have a solid head for business.  I'm not sure about the reporter yet but she's nowhere near as annoying as Ruth so I'm waiting to see what happens there.

 

I definitely saw Adam Beach in that preview, thuganomics85; I'm looking forward to next week.    


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#505

madam magpie

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Posted Aug 18, 2013 @ 12:10 PM

This show is very different with its new showrunners. The tone and look have changed, the camera filters seem different. That's not exactly bad, but the style feels unfamiliar to me. Also I still miss Lily and am having a hard time buying the anachronistic characters. Lily was modern, but in a believable 1860s way. The reporter might as well work for the NY Times or CNN today. That said...

 

I love the interactions between Elam and Cullen. They're just so charming together. I will like the cattle rancher lady if she's playing everyone and not just in bed with Durant. I'm concerned that there are too many villains now. I don't trust brother Toole, wish Ruth would starve, and kind of like Mickey. Sean's still a creep. Also do we know what disease the bleeding prostitute actually had?


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#506

Incorporal

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Posted Aug 18, 2013 @ 5:08 PM

Is the Swede going to kill that dad and pretend the wife and kid are his own or what?

 

I want to know what Joseph's been up to. 

 

Elam and Cullen mumble so much it's hard to understand a word they say if you can't do some lipreading. 


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#507

taiko

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Posted Aug 18, 2013 @ 5:29 PM

Not to seem shallow but it looks like Cullen might have three potential love interests--reporter, ranch lady and Ruth?  Or is Ruth just his sounding board

Even though Ruth was morally compromised with Joseph she is still the local evangelist. Meanwhile Cullen is no longer a leader but the commander with the loneliness of that position. Put together I would say Ruth will be a sounding board alone for Cullen. I would think the range will be local and with Doc putting his hub down near her that leaves them as a couple, although another triangle can happen. The reporter seems to close to Lily in function. And we still have the Mormon's daughter possible being in the mix.


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#508

nodorothyparker

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Posted Aug 18, 2013 @ 9:26 PM

I have no idea where they're going with the Swede.  My husband was expecting to see some bloodshed the minute he picked up the axe.  There was definitely something creepy about the intensity he had for the wife and kid, and he was definitely lying when he told them the story about losing his own family.  Part of me wants to see where this goes and part me is just over his whole storyline and not interested in sitting through another season of him skulking about and mindfucking Bohannan.

 

I'm trying to take a wait and see attitude about Louise? the reporter.  She's definitely filling an exposition role and I actually really liked her scenes with Eva and the sick whore.  That's a perspective you don't get much of in Westerns.  While I still miss Lily too, I was really taken with the introduction of Maggie.  The show can use another tough female character and I'm interested to see how she plays with both Durant and Bohannon.

 

This show is very different with its new showrunners. The tone and look have changed, the camera filters seem different. That's not exactly bad, but the style feels unfamiliar to me.

 

I mostly agree with this but I'm also really liking the expanded scope of the story we're getting this season.  At times in the first two seasons, the railroad camp and town felt very isolated from the larger world and the empire building that the railroad was symptom of.  So far this season, I'm definitely getting more of a feel of how far reaching the whole thing was and how the big the stakes were.


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#509

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Posted Aug 18, 2013 @ 11:35 PM

Is the Swede going to kill that dad and pretend the wife and kid are his own or what?

 

Heck, I was half-expecting him to hollow the kid out and use him as a puppet before the episode was over.


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#510

mamcu

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Posted Aug 19, 2013 @ 2:02 PM

I want to know what kind of disease makes you bleed from the crotch.  I know Eva said it was "old whores disease" but I need to know a medical term.


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