Jump to content

Brown Betty References, Easter Eggs and More!


This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic.

78 replies to this topic

#1

a la fringed

a la fringed

    Couch Potato

Posted Dec 5, 2010 @ 5:01 PM

Opening this thread up for comparisons and discussions as it relates to recently aired episodes. We love Brown Betty, it wasn't just a noir musical episode. It was so much more!

Discuss!

#2

Indi

Indi

    Fanatic

Posted Dec 5, 2010 @ 5:10 PM

YAY, thanks!

Is fictional Walter our Walter or Walternate? Just like fictional Olivia is Fauxlivia (Peter danced with her, fed her and kept her warm, meaning slept with her), Walternate seems rather heartless to me, just like fictional Walter.

#3

JodyA

JodyA

    Couch Potato

Posted Dec 5, 2010 @ 5:33 PM

Is fictional Walter our Walter or Walternate? Just like fictional Olivia is Fauxlivia (Peter danced with her, fed her and kept her warm, meaning slept with her), Walternate seems rather heartless to me, just like fictional Walter.


I think it is our Walter because when Olivia asks about the same last name (of Peter being related to Walter), Walter replies it was just a coincidence and not related. Technically that is true since Peter is from the other universe. Walter in BB said he loved Peter like a son. Again true. I don't think they mention Walternate, but everyone in BB seemed very interested in Peter's glass heart. We know our Peter is unique because there is only 1 of him. He is also genetically compatable to the machine to power it. What the machine does may be dependent upon Peter's desire of the time. Maybe he focuses the use of it. I think the "be a better man than your father" is going to play a role later and Peter has often said he does NOT want to be like his father (meaning Walternate I suppose).

Peter and Olivia have a familiar conversation about who they are and belonging in BB. Peter does not know his exact role, while Olivia knows she wants to take care of people. In BB, it is said that Olivia, the detective, only takes cases involving "the heart" or love. It seems to be that Olivia in the "real world" may harbor a similar wish but seems to be discouraged at every turn by all the death and familial dysfunction in her past. Not to mention what Walter did to her in the Cortexaphan trials which I wonder is another reference in BB when Peter said that Walter made his money or invention off of dreams of children. It is definitely true that real Walter and "Belly" stole tech from the alt. world.

#4

monnie44

monnie44

    Video Archivist

Posted Dec 5, 2010 @ 5:38 PM

Indi, I personally feel they were a mixture of both.

For example, Olivia also deals with the coffin full of water (tank), being 'rescued' by Peter (head Peter), and saves Peter's life - none of which I think were meant to imply she was Altlivia.

Likewise with Walter, while I can definitely see a lot of Walternate in him ... there was also that scene where Peter discusses how he steals children's dreams and IMO this is a reference to the drug trials Walter and Bell performed, of which Walternate had no part.

Also I'm so glad this thread is running now! I've been waiting weeks to have a proper discussion about all of the foreshadowing from BB!

#5

a la fringed

a la fringed

    Couch Potato

Posted Dec 5, 2010 @ 6:51 PM

For example, Olivia also deals with the coffin full of water (tank), being 'rescued' by Peter (head Peter), and saves Peter's life - none of which I think were meant to imply she was Altlivia.


In the DVD commentaries they specifically talked about having Olivia discuss with Astrid about finding someone in the universe that would keep her warm when she was cold, fed her when she was hungry and took her dancing because it was something that Olivia needs in her life. And they showed that by literally having him cover her with a blanket when he rescues her from the coffin, making her breakfast and the dance at the end.

As for the Walters there are two endings. One where Walter pleas with Peter and is not forgiven. Also with the Candyman reference I would say this would be Walternate.

Walter: Peter. Peter! I -- I never meant to hurt anyone. I never -- I can change, you'll see. I can make up for all the harm I've done. Peter, please. (sings) Who can take the sunrise? Sprinkle it with dew... the Candy Man can. Peter, please.
PETER: It's too late, Walter. There's some things you can't undo.

And the second ending which is Ella's version, seen through more hopeful eyes. This sounds more like the Peter that though couldn't completely forgive Walter for lying to him about his origin, found it in his heart to realize "you did cross universes twice to save my life. So that's gotta count for something, right? -there is still hope for you, there is still hope to salvage this relationship:

Walter: Peter. Peter, please. I can change. I can fix the damage I've done. Please, give me another chance.
ELLA: ...and Peter looked inside Walter's eyes and realized there was still goodness inside him. So Peter took his special heart, and with all his might, he split it in two. And the heart was so magical that it still worked. And together, they made goodness, and lived happily ever after. The End.

Edited by a la fringed, Dec 5, 2010 @ 7:02 PM.


#6

oconnellaboo

oconnellaboo

    Fanatic

Posted Dec 5, 2010 @ 7:20 PM

Oh, goody! A whole thread devoted to my Fringe obsession, Brown Betty! Thank you, a la fringed!!

I think the Walter of BB is partly our Walter, someone who thinks he's making the world a wonderful place ("Who can take a sunrise..."), but at a horrible cost. However, he's also Walternate, in that he seems to love his son, but is willing to let Peter sacrifice himself (give him his heart) for his own purposes.

Regarding the heart, I wonder if the the important piece of The Machine that was just introduced in Entrada is the "real world Fringe" version of the glass heart. Its presentation in the case reminded me a lot of Peter's glass heart in the briefcase in BB. Could this object be the piece that completes the connection between Peter and the machine and triggers the Doomsday device?

#7

a la fringed

a la fringed

    Couch Potato

Posted Dec 5, 2010 @ 8:28 PM

You're welcome!

Regarding the heart, I wonder if the the important piece of The Machine that was just introduced in Entrada is the "real world Fringe" version of the glass heart. Its presentation in the case reminded me a lot of Peter's glass heart in the briefcase in BB.


Oh! IA, I commented about the similitude to the hearts in the episode thread. Too lazy to re-word. I'll quote myself instead.

That piece of device seems to be what BOlivia came here to get. It's almost like two spheres no? It reminded me of infinity. Also, I thought they could go Brown Betty and break it in two perhaps, one for you and one for me. Then maybe the two worlds can live happily ever after.


It does seem to be the part Walternate wants/needs, and he sent a version of Olivia to get it back. Just like BOlivia didn't have the correct information when she was sent here neither did Fictional Olivia until she spoke with Peter.

Edited by a la fringed, Dec 5, 2010 @ 8:30 PM.


#8

GreenPhoenix

GreenPhoenix

    Fanatic

Posted Dec 5, 2010 @ 10:02 PM

I am guessing that Walter in BB is our Walter, not Walternate. Walter was telling the story at a time when he felt a lot of guilt, so it wouldn't surprise me if he portrayed himself as villainous in his story.

However, I wouldn't be surprised if the two endings end up representing how Peter reaches a resolutions with the two Walters; i.e. rejects Walternate and shares himself with Walter.

#9

JodyA

JodyA

    Couch Potato

Posted Dec 6, 2010 @ 11:18 AM

In BB, the Watcher/Observer cut Olivia with some sort of knife. It didn't kill her, and looked a fairly deep wound. Anyway, when Astrid (Ester Figglesworth) was cleansing the wound, she commented on it seeming to heal. A gift Oliva has? She did seem to come back from the dead after she careened through the windshield of the car. Weren't they even scheduling an autopsy the next day? I don't remember her being on any life support when Peter came in to see her. She was clinically dead or had to be.

#10

fedorafadares

fedorafadares

    Couch Potato

Posted Dec 6, 2010 @ 8:52 PM

We actually saw a version of that knife this season, when Newton used a laser pen/knife to remove Altlivia's tattoo!

I have a wild theory about Olivia's healing ability that also explains why she can cross universes: Brandon from MD explained that crossing over causes molecules to lose their cohesiveness, eventually allowing them to burst apart at the slightest provocation.

I think the "natural ability" we've heard Bell, et al, talking about in Olivia is that she has extra-sticky molecules. They're more cohesive or possibly replicate faster, allowing her to heal faster in "Brown Betty" and every other time she gets the hoo-hah beaten out of her. Which is a lot.

#11

JodyA

JodyA

    Couch Potato

Posted Dec 7, 2010 @ 8:21 PM

I was reading at another forum of an idea of Peter's health could also be something to watch because of how, after the heart was stolen from him, he seemed to sort "die" temporarily or became ill for a brief moment before Olivia got the other battery in. Possibly his genetic illness made him unique or even maybe the cure of it? Could it recur or the crossing over experience have triggered something? Anyhoo, it does seem that Walternate will have to have some way to get Peter back to the other side and get into the machine.

#12

smileygirl

smileygirl

    Channel Surfer

Posted Dec 8, 2010 @ 9:09 AM

In the scene with Nina and Belly (in the altuniverse - being seen through the "window") he says that he needs Peter's heart to open a doorway between the universes so anyone could cross.

In the episode, the "watchers" work for MD.....was that just for the "story" or is there some truth in that????

#13

JodyA

JodyA

    Couch Potato

Posted Dec 8, 2010 @ 10:55 AM

It does seem that everything ties back to Massive Dynamic. It's so big, it seems hard for ex employees not to steal secrets from it. I am beginning to wonder, too, if John Scott was working for Massive Dynamic as a double agent. They still never answered the question that John told Olivia to ask herself: "Why did Broyles send you to storage facility?"

#14

jophan

jophan

    Fanatic

  • Location:Abington, PA
  • Interests:needlework, science fiction, mysteries

Posted Dec 8, 2010 @ 4:43 PM

I agree that's a loose end. However, perhaps John was working for a group that was suspicious of MD, rather than for MD itself, given that we know that Broyles has been pretty close to Nina.

#15

JodyA

JodyA

    Couch Potato

Posted Dec 9, 2010 @ 12:32 PM

In BB, Olivia said that Broyles got his promotion by planting evidence at a crime scene. We haven't seen anything related to this yet. Was Broyles trying to expose John Scott via Olivia?

Is fictional Walter our Walter or Walternate? Just like fictional Olivia is Fauxlivia (Peter danced with her, fed her and kept her warm, meaning slept with her), Walternate seems rather heartless to me, just like fictional Walter.



I re-watched part of that and I still cannot come to the complete conclusion that Fauxlivia is necessarily the exact match for Peter. I think she has the potential to be and that she is really similar to our Olivia whether she wants to believe it or not. I think BB is correct in showing Peter not one to dance as he seemed hesitant when Fauxlivia asked him. The thing is, when viewing some classiv Peter/Olivia moments, Peter is drawn to Olivia. After the almost kiss, he talked with her about the awkwardness of it and how he would do anything not to destroy the "little family" that is established between Walter, Peter, and Olivia. When Peter first met Fauxlivia and described his Olivia her, he seemed a bit melancholy for her. I seemed to get the impression that Peter, if he had stayed on the "other side" would have started a relationship with that Olivia initially because of our Olivia.

What I think makes the difference between the two Olivias are depth of emotional committment. When I look at Fauxlivia's relationship with Frank, I seem to feel it is a good one but more self serving on Fauxlivia's part. Frank took care of her in ways such as cooking, housekeeping, bedwarming, sort of like a mother. Fauxlivia was described as sort of "thrill seeker" when Charlie was scolding our Olivia about not following protocol in a low oxygen atmosphere condition. I have to ask, does Fauxlivia know her place like our Olivia in wanting to protect. Is she emotional in her job so that she can better serve the victim of a crime? We were never allowed to see Fauxliviia in real crime fighting because all of her case solving on our side was one of her own making. She does do her duty and has very loyal partners which is to her credit but I don't see the same emotional depth as our Olivia which can make her less burdened or is she just a "runner" like Peter was before he met our Olivia?

Fauxlivia does not drink. This seems to me a bigger factor than what was let on. She seemed to eye Peter strangely when he drank a shot of something. Is there a backstory here or something? Did Fauxlivia shoot and kill her stepfather? Why does our Olivia drink like she does after being psychologically scarred by an alcholic?

But, back to the "dance" thing and liking music. "Dance" can be a metaphor for life or living it. In BB, Peter observed Olivia's ability to fight for herself. He complimented on how well she "cut a rug" in a battle. Peter has been drawn to Olivia by her whole-hearted pursuit of truth and defend at personal cost to self. As for music, Olivia does not necessarily hate it but it would seem she just is always busy with work to stop and take time for those things. Sort of like Walter but with the difference that Walter likes music to help him "connect the dots" of lost memory. Connecting the dots and "thing for numbers" is a special talent for Olivia which I do not think that Fauxlivia possesses (or something that our Olivia possesses as a result of Cortexiphan). Cortexiphan may also have given Olivia to heal quickly. A talent Fauxlivia has not yet shown.

In a scene in BB where Esther (Astrid) is cleaning Olivia's wound, she remarks on how Olivia is always drawn back in because she is looking for "true" love. Olivia remarks on how she does not necessarily need someone who gives his heart to the world (but who may be as self-sacrificing as she is) but someone who will make her warm when she's cold, feed her when she's hungry. For some reason, I do not think she is talking in the material sense but in a spiritual sense (food for the soul). In other words, I get a feeling she is looking for "reanimation". A soul mate. "Anima" means soul which could lead to a bunch Carl Jung archetypes and psychological imagery.

#16

Indi

Indi

    Fanatic

Posted Dec 10, 2010 @ 2:38 PM

So now we have the raising corpses reference in Marionette, the corpse of the ballerina. This one didn't sing, but that guy surely brought some life to the dead. And then there's the stolen heart, of course. That poor girl shared it with the world through donation and got it back, at least for a while.

#17

JodyA

JodyA

    Couch Potato

Posted Dec 10, 2010 @ 3:17 PM

As for the Walters there are two endings. One where Walter pleas with Peter and is not forgiven. Also with the Candyman reference I would say this would be Walternate.


In the "Candyman" ep, wasn't "red vines" introduced in the alt. universe? We know that is Walter's favorite. We even saw Bell and Walter chewing on some when they went to Harvard in "Over There". Probably a stretch, but could Walternate be doing some similar types of experimentation on children like "the candyman" trying to find the youth serum? Also weren't "red vines" in the BB Walter's book of invention?

Sorry if this was already noted: Walter called Astrid "Esther" in "Marionette".

#18

a la fringed

a la fringed

    Couch Potato

Posted Dec 10, 2010 @ 3:23 PM

We also had the one on one scene with Astrid and Olivia. Astrid once again helping Olivia out with her wound and advice with matters of the heart.

#19

Aldebaran70

Aldebaran70

    Channel Surfer

Posted Dec 13, 2010 @ 4:41 PM

In Brown Betty, Walter and Ella was playing the game Operation and Ella told Walter that he was killing "Cavity Sam" as he was trying to remove his heart. It could be an indirect reference for the Gentleman in Marionette who removed heart from a transplant patient. Later on, there was a scene with Rachel's dead on floor and her heart has been removed.

#20

JodyA

JodyA

    Couch Potato

Posted Dec 13, 2010 @ 6:21 PM

I never really understood why Rachel/Kelsie in BB had her heart torn out by the Watchers/Observers? What as the point? To scare off Olivia? Heaven forbid if that should foreshadow Rachel getting killed in the future or finding out that Rachel gets replaced by a shapeshifter!

#21

oconnellaboo

oconnellaboo

    Fanatic

Posted Dec 15, 2010 @ 2:55 PM

Speaking of the Observers, I noticed that the weapons they use in BB are a lot more destructive than September's gun seems to be. He used it in The Arrival to knock Peter unconscious, and it seems they have another run-in coming up when the show returns.

Peter wasn't badly hurt in The Arrival, but the BB guns seem on constant "Phasers set to kill" setting, and the Observers/Watchers in BB are a lot more menacing. Is it possible that they're not as "hands-off" as they seem, and could become aggressive - deadly even - if their objective is imperiled?

#22

Coco27

Coco27

    Couch Potato

Posted Jan 29, 2011 @ 5:29 PM

I knew that crime scene entrance reminded me of something

#23

oconnellaboo

oconnellaboo

    Fanatic

Posted Jan 29, 2011 @ 6:24 PM

In last night's episode, we learned that while Peter's electro-magnetic field is not responsible for activating The Machine, he was experiencing arrhythmia. Yup, it looks like Peter's "magical heart" is the key to Doomsday Device!

#24

heirofloki

heirofloki

    Channel Surfer

Posted Jan 29, 2011 @ 7:28 PM

I knew that crime scene entrance reminded me of something


Excellent catch!!

Not to mention, the picture at the SS's place (the one behind the door), is the same that gets shot up by one of the observers when they invade the PeterCave in BB. You know, when they nearly blow Liv's head right off. Same picture is magically repaired when Olivia is healing Peter in BB. Gosh, I wish I had screencaps of that. :(

ETA:
Hmm now I'm not sure. Maybe it's not the same picture? The lovely people at FringeForum have screencaps.

Edited by heirofloki, Jan 29, 2011 @ 7:46 PM.


#25

Miss Caffeine

Miss Caffeine

    Video Archivist

  • Gender:Female
  • Location:United States

Posted Jan 31, 2011 @ 12:14 AM

In BB, Olivia said that Broyles got his promotion by planting evidence at a crime scene. We haven't seen anything related to this yet. Was Broyles trying to expose John Scott via Olivia?


Interesting point! I've always been curious as to what those last words meant. I think you might be on to something, and Broyles might have been suspicious of Scott at the time and he was trying to expose him to Olivia.

Another explanation could be that Broyles and Nina, both of whom actively recruited Olivia for their own teams, might have known something about her relationship to the entire plot from the beginning. That would be unsettling.

She seemed to eye Peter strangely when he drank a shot of something. Is there a backstory here or something? Did Fauxlivia shoot and kill her stepfather? Why does our Olivia drink like she does after being psychologically scarred by an alcoholic?


Interesting questions.

Could it be the levels of stress to which they are exposed? I think our Olivia has more to cope with, at least emotionally. Her stepfather is still out there, her mother is dead, she is a loner, etc etc.

#26

heirofloki

heirofloki

    Channel Surfer

Posted Jan 31, 2011 @ 1:24 AM

This one I don't find so puzzling.

Why does our Olivia drink like she does after being psychologically scarred by an alcoholic?


I know at least two children of alcoholic parents who drink in the same manner as Olivia. They just don't get drunk (again, very much as Olivia). Same for smokers. One of my friends grew up with smoker parents and can't stand the smell. Another one grew up to be a smoker. People assimilate things in different ways.

#27

bolivia

bolivia

    Couch Potato

Posted Feb 2, 2011 @ 4:56 PM

An easter egg for this weeks episode

http://tinypic.com/r/28m2qo8/7

Blue Powder is what kills the doctor (you can see the logo on the dumpster is 'blue powder' and also one of the dumpsters had a 4 leaf clover on (but not sure what that means.

http://tinypic.com/r/sav29u/7

#28

Money Magnet

Money Magnet

    Fanatic

Posted Feb 6, 2011 @ 2:58 PM

In case it hadn't already been mentioned... "Brown Betty" was written by the showrunners. I doubt that any parallels in the plot to "Brown Betty" are merely coincidental. It probably is a sort of Rosetta Stone for events on the show past and future.

#29

Bad Numbers

Bad Numbers

    Couch Potato

Posted Feb 11, 2011 @ 7:37 AM

How about this one:

Fictional Peter: Coffee?
Fictional Olivia: Yeah, one sugar. Thanks.


Heh.
At least Fictional Peter got it right.

#30

JodyA

JodyA

    Couch Potato

Posted Feb 11, 2011 @ 6:26 PM

Awesome. It definitely tells us that BB Olivia is not to be confused with Fauxlivia...thank goodness. :)