239 replies to this topic

[TWoP Howard]

From ZAP2it:

Nucky shakes up the status quo; Jimmy deals with family issues; Van Alden addresses Agent Sebso's temptations.

Edited by TWoP Howard, Dec 8, 2010 @ 3:17 PM.

[Kalidah]

Poor Sebso.

[AimingforYoko]

I guess you'd call that "aggressive proselytizing."
So three early hints that paid off later: The Commedore was Jimmy's father, The Commedore was getting poisoned (by Gillian, though and not the maid) and that poor schnook who got taken by Ponzi. Nicely done. And the Commedore was 54 while Gillian was 13? Who does he think he is, Bill Wyman?

[Grom]

Congrats to those that called the Commodore's poisoning. And to those who called that he was Jimmy's dad.

That was a helluva fight between Nucky and Margaret. Nucky seemed to be upset that she didn't want to get pregnant by him but was totally aware about the lysol.

I had a feeling that Mary was going to run off without Angela. Angela really should have gotten back to the house faster because after the letter I can't see things going real well with Jimmy.

And Van Alden again takes the nuttiest man of the night award. What were those poor people supposed to do with a federal agent's dead body?

[Aileithyia]

Jesus, poor Angela. That is absolutely devastating, and Jimmy is terrifying. I was hoping against hope that she and Mary and Tommy would get away, but I guess no one gets a happy ending on this show. Well, except for aging pervert racists who escape poisoning, that is. Grrr.

And the way Richard so calmly told Jimmy about what he'd do to lure the D'Alessios out into the open was chilling.

Edited by Aileithyia, Nov 28, 2010 @ 10:37 PM.

[lucindabelle]

He just killed a man in front of a whole bunch o'witnesses. Eep. Though kudos to poor old Sepso for not converting under pressure.

I think the maid was in on it from the way she tried to take those cookies away!

Is it wrong to feel sorry for Nucky? I thought he didn't deny what Margaret said out of a kind of respect. The obvious solution is to just marry her since a wife can't testify against her husband. But maybe she no longer loves him since she didn't even want to try to make up....

[Cassadinegirl]

Well, a lot of us guessed it, and now we know: The Commodore is Jimmy's father. Ugh, I can't believe he had sex with a 13-year-old girl when he was 54, gross. Some have suggested Nucky might still be in the running for Jimmy's dad, but no way would Nucky be with a girl that young. Although they kind of seem to leave it up in the air as to exactly who's posioning the Commodore. Gillian didn't deny it, but I still the maid is the most likely one. Gillian seemed to have a lingering fondness for him anyway. And I think this kill's my theory that she's Nucky/Eli's half-sister from an affair their father had, I can't see Nucky willing pimping his little sister to the Commodore, no matter how ambitious he was.

Speaking of Nucky, wow did he show his true colors. Not wanting Margaret to have a right to her own reproductive choices, thinking he was "righteous" for killing her husband (and yes, the guy was awful, but still ...). I loved the fight between him and Eli. Eli said so much that made sense, and then Nucky got in that final zinger ... ouch. I still think the guy that got Eli's job had something to do with the shooting though.

So what do we think the deal with Mary is? Last week, she claimed not to love the husband and seemed quite ready to leave him, but this week, they seemed to share a moment of tenderness... did she just change her mind and decide she couldn't leave him? Did Jimmy read the later and then threaten the couple, forcing them to leave town (unlikely he had time to do that)? And since Jimmy read the letter, what did he learn? That the affair was with Mary? I have to wonder...

Wow, Van Alden really is a nutter. I mean, I knew he was, but ... my god. And I can't believe all those people just stood there while he drowned Sespo. Yeesh.

Nucky and Margaret confrontation was great. They took all that tension and it just exploded. I wonder where she'll go now.

Harrow didn't have much to do this episode, but always good to see him make an appearance. Interesting how his protectiveness towards Margaret and her family and his sadness at seeing them go can be so sharply contrasted with his casual aside to Jimmy that he will kill a mother, sisters, and a dentist brother (all presumably innocent) just to draw out the criminal element of the family. What a dichotomy is at work there.

Can't wait for the finale!

[ridethemaverick]

I loved Nucky's line to Hardeen after the fat guy ran out after Annabelle;
"So, what other tricks do you know?" Brilliant.

Poor Angela. Will she ever feel safe again?

[mochamajesty]

Poor Angela...I wonder how often the photographer and his wife pulled this on other people. Why did they just up and leave? And Jimmy played it just right. Sometimes indifference hurts worse than anger. If I were Angela, I would rather have been shouted at then just...ignored. "It's just going to be us boys." Ouch.

Nucky and Margaret's fight was awesome. I found myself holding my breath during that scene. I think that Nucky does care for her. He looked almost guilty when Margaret caught him with Annabelle. Speaking of, she is not attractive to me at all. I wonder what the criteria is for a concubine. Personality? Looks? Discretion? All of the above?

Van Alden brings new meaning to holy roller. And when he walked away with his gun and badge aloft, I laughed so hard I almost cried. I don't think that was intended to be a humorous scene, but I couldn't stop laughing. This many brings the crazy like no one else.

Why did Jimmy get sick from eating one cookie, but it took the Commodore forever to get sick? Or did he get sick all of a sudden?

And I can't believe all those people just stood there while he drowned Sespo. Yeesh.

Remember the times. 1920s. The people were African Americans - who were going to believe them against a white federal agent? I wonder if Van Alden picked that spot for this reason.

Speaking of Nucky, wow did he show his true colors. Not wanting Margaret to have a right to her own reproductive choices, thinking he was "righteous" for killing her husband (and yes, the guy was awful, but still ...). I loved the fight between him and Eli. Eli said so much that made sense, and then Nucky got in that final zinger ... ouch. I still think the guy that got Eli's job had something to do with the shooting though.

Yes, the "you don't have the right to decide". Uhhh..excuse me? I know it was before Roe v Wade, but that just shook me.

Eli was awesome in the argument with Nucky. Too bad he wasn't this interesting all season. And yes, the deputy totally set him up.

Edited by mochamajesty, Nov 28, 2010 @ 10:24 PM.

[Brakchi]

What a disturbing episode as things really came to a head. The murder by baptism of Sebso was the clincher with Van Alden taking the creepiest character of the episode honors again. Richard came close with his offer to Jimmy of sending a threat but Van Alden topped it in time.

Nice to see Margaret questioning Nucky and Nucky questioning Margaret and things on the table. I'm with Gillian all the way on murdering that scum. 13 and 54. So Commodore is Stanford White to Gillian's Evelyn Nesbit. What a disgusting pig the Commodore is and it is a shame that it appears he will have a chance to recover. Nucky should feel guilty and responsible.

Poor Angela. She made her choice of Mary only to be betrayed. That scene with her crying, her dreams dashed, was devastating. No other character on the show (or maybe even the fall tv scene) has more empathy from me. Makes me thankful to have been born in a different era. Her and Gillian are the truly tragic characters on this show.

The only sledgehammer moment was Hardeen paralleling Eli. It wouldn't have been bad at all if Nucky had not expressed it out loud.

Acting honors this week to Dabney Coleman (that scene where he was afraid of his hair being cut), Michael Shannon, and Gretchen Moll but it was Aleksa Palladino who really nailed it.

Edited by Brakchi, Nov 28, 2010 @ 10:35 PM.

[Scoutlet]

I didn't think Margaret would leave so abruptly. What happens with her now? I also didn't quite understand why, if Nucky was so upset about her using the Lysol, he didn't say something sooner. Why wait until the middle of a fight? I also kind of felt sorry for him.

Eli has eight kids.....wow. His wife looks darned good considering.

I was so stunned when Harrow offered to kill those innocent people. I guess he would do anything for the only person to show him respect and acceptance, but still.

Poor Angela. That feckless Mary is a real piece of work.

[Chirper]

So what do we think the deal with Mary is? Last week, she claimed not to love the husband and seemed quite ready to leave him, but this week, they seemed to share a moment of tenderness... did she just change her mind and decide she couldn't leave him?

I thought the game was up when the "Tish...you're speaking French" moment happened. I suspect the Robert/Mary relationship is complicated and we won't find out until next season...unless somebody knew about Angela and Mary and ratted them out to Nucky, who in turn made sure the Dittrich's blew town. I was really scared for Angela at the end of the episode, afraid of what Jimmy would do after having read her letter.

I thought a lot of what happened tonight was just over the top. There's a fine line between larger than life, which "Boardwalk Empire" plays very well, and too unbelievable for words, such as Van Alden drowning Sebso in front of a slew of witnesses and being able to walk away, gun or no gun. Why didn't the minister try to intervene even before Van Alden drew his gun? Chalky strangling a D'Alessio with his bare hands was extreme but it at least made sense. Sebso buying the farm the way he did just didn't make it.

BTW, was Hardeen that lousy a magician?

Richard logically assessing the D'Alessio situation and offering to methodically off the civilians in the clan was chilling. Sharpshooters are so patient.

[Contralto]

Why did Jimmy get sick from eating one cookie, but it took the Commodore forever to get sick? Or did he get sick all of a sudden?

The Commodore would have built up a tolerance to the stuff.

"It's just going to be us boys." Ouch.

I don't think unwed fathers had any rights back then -- but hey, Jimmy's not one to rely on the legal system.

Nor condoning what Gillian did, if she did it, but . . . thirteen? She had a whole life ahead of her, and the Commodore took it away.

[Sanveann]

*Sniffle* I hate to see Margaret and Nucky fighting. I do hope they make up. I'm still hoping (probably against all common sense) that they'll end up married, because they really are an excellent couple in most ways, except for that whole he-had-her-first-husband-killed thing. I wonder where she went to -- back to her old house? How is she planning on supporting herself?

Personally, I think Gillian is the one who decided to poison the Commodore, and got the maid to help her out. Clearly the maid knows about it, with trying to keep Jimmy from eating the cookies and the dog from eating the scraps. But I would've expected Gillian to seem a LOT more shocked than she did, if she weren't behind it.

[Mikesaunt]

Van Alden is a deliberate murderer( twice over now) and is one scary zealot. He is not just obsessive...he is an intolerant psychopath. I kept saying no to myself when he wanted Sebso to come into the river. I knew he was going to kill him.

Poor Nucky, Poor Margaret. Each thinking that they were somehow fooling the other, but, in reality they were fooling themselves. Neither one was oblivious to the games being played and that is why when they were arguing their words were deeply wounding. When Nucky pulled out the Lysol bottle talking about her putting poison in her body, and she retorting that she was not there to provide him with an heir, they had passed the point of no return. She knew Nucky was right, and coupled with crazy Van Alden's salvation visit getting her to question who she had become, I knew she was going to leave. I felt for Nucky as he was going around in the apartment speaking with Richard- there was an air of sadness which permeated through my TV screen. Sadness, not only from Nucky, but from Richard too. Speaking of Richard, he made my blood run cold when he was talking to Jimmy about killing the D'Alessandro(sp?) brother's mother, sister, and the dentist brother. I knew he was lethal, but, that got to me.

Commodore is Jimmy's dad. Gillian was his when she was 13 years old and Nucky was the procurer for the Commodore. Old Commodore impregnated Gillian, but, Nucky was the one to take care of her and Jimmy. I take it back about the maid poisoning the commodore--Gillian has leaped to the head of the line. She could have left the dog alone--too late now since he has bit the dust. Poor doggie.

Eli is out. Now, he knows he is NOTHING without Nucky.

I was so scared for Angela. I wanted her to run back to the apartment to get the letter before Jimmy found it. When she came home my heart was in my mouth that Jimmy was going to grab her. I guess his son is what saved her from harm. If I were her I would try like hell to get away from there as soon as I could. Ok, so what happened to Mary? I didn't think she would jilt Angela but it seems that is exactly what happened.

Can't wait until the finale.

Edited by Mikesaunt, Nov 28, 2010 @ 10:37 PM.

[AimingforYoko]

The only sledgehammer moment was Hardeen paralleling Eli

I actually thought the sledgehammer moment with Hardeen was him telling Margaret, "Deception requires a partner, one has to be willing to be deceived." Subtle.

[Grom]

I thought Richard offering to kill the innocent D'Alessios showed that despite occasional moments of tenderness toward Margaret and the children, Richard's moral compass definitely got broken in the war.

As to where Margaret went, I guess back to the old house she had with Hans. I have a feeling though that she and Nucky aren't going to stay apart for long and that she will become Mrs. Thompson.

Edited by Grom, Nov 28, 2010 @ 10:34 PM.

[Midge]

Van Alden is a deliberate murderer( twice over now) and is one scary zealot. He is not just obsessive...he is an intolerant psychopath. I kept saying no to myself when he wanted his assistant to come into the river. I knew he was going to kill him.

Not to defend the nut job but it came off to me as kind of accidental "Repent! Repent! Repent you... oh. Oops." Which is also why the reverand did not interfere. I totally didn't get the walking out with th gun and badge raised though.

It was a good thing for Nucky though.

So does Eli know he's fired?

I was hoping Angela would actually get to run off with Mary. I just haven't been able to get into that story line. I have no interest in an even mopier Angela.

[lucindabelle]

I guess having a general empathy for "the enemy" would be a hindrance to a sharpshooter, but still, Harrow surprised me. But I suspect he knew he would be turned down.

I really hope those crazy kids make up-- they are so right for each other-- Nucky was correct when he pointed out that she'd hardly grieved for her husband, nor have the kids missed their daddy. I think that's the truth that really hurts.

[Kalidah]

BTW, was Hardeen that lousy a magician?

While he was no Houdini, he did learn from the best, was respected by his peers, and had a successful career. So, not really.

I totally didn't get the walking out with th gun and badge raised though.

I thought it was to remind the congregation that he was an armed psycho with government authority, just in case one of them decided to object to his having murdered a man in front of them.

[Princess Louie]

I thought a lot of what happened tonight was just over the top. There's a fine line between larger than life, which "Boardwalk Empire" plays very well, and too unbelievable for words, such as Van Alden drowning Sebso in front of a slew of witnesses and being able to walk away, gun or no gun. Why didn't the minister try to intervene even before Van Alden drew his gun? Chalky strangling a D'Alessio with his bare hands was extreme but it at least made sense. Sebso buying the farm the way he did just didn't make it.

ME TOO. My head is aching from the anvils. We KNOW Van Alden is one crazy dude. We've known it from the beginning. You didn't have to have him murder a Jewish man in front of a terrified church gathering.

Which brings me to another point: why couldn't TPTB give us an Enforcement Agent who was sane, smart and likeable? Are you telling me there weren't any? I highly doubt it; the 19th Amendment did, in fact, pass so it must have been popular and the enforcers the good guys. Yes, I know it was well-intentioned but ill-advised (somewhat like our own drug war), but good grief, don't try to make me think that Van Alden is representative of the Bureau of Alcohol Enforcement.

Let Van Alden be crazy. Michael Shannon eats scenery and must be fed. But give me more of the people who were trying to do their jobs in an impossible situation.

And here's another rant: Margaret citing Van Alden as an authority in her fight with Nucky, AFTER finding out that Van Alden had been carrying her 16-year old picture around with him. She was repulsed by him last week, and now she is using him in an argument?

Nucky wants a baby. And he wants it with Margaret. I suspect they will make up - especially when Margaret is reminded of the mean streets of Atlantic City.

The woman who plays the mattress-stuffing concubine looks so much like Lorena in True Blood.

I still think the maid is poisoning the Commodore, but she is doing it at Gillian's direction. They're working together on this. I also think that the idea that someone other than Nucky should be running Atlantic City came straight from Gillian, and she wasn't talking about Eli or the Mayor or anyone else in the machine.

So, so sad for Angela. She has been used and abused again, and is now friendless. Agree that Aleksa Palladino had a stellar performance tonight.

Edited by Princess Louie, Nov 28, 2010 @ 10:47 PM.

[Bookrat]

Agent Sebco looked dead, but I swear he was in the previews for next week looking very much alive. Is it possible he just passed out? In the last scene, he was floating with his face about the water. And if he's REALLY dead, how is Agent Nutjob going to explain to his supervisor how his coworker died?

Wonderings: If Sebco had "converted," would Van Alden have stopped trying to drown him, and if yes, what would Van Alden have done then?

[ridethemaverick]

And I can't believe all those people just stood there while he drowned Sespo. Yeesh.

I think they were in shock. Who wouldn't be, witnessing something like that? I also agree with a pp...Van Alden is a white man who works in law enforcement. They aren't exactly equals.

Van Alden really made me uncomfortable trying to convert Sepso. I've been creeped out by him many times, but that was creepy with an added layer of...something. I don't know, but I was squirming the entire time. I was glad Sepso stood up to him about his comments on his religious beliefs, but alas, it was not enough.

Too bad the commodore is still alive.

Edited by ridethemaverick, Nov 28, 2010 @ 10:55 PM.

[hardy har]

Welcome to episode 11 of Boardwalk Empire! Where everyone gets a happily ever after! Oh . . . .wait.

So, that was Michael Shannon's Emmy episode, right? He was all kinds of good. Crazy and all hell, but so so good. I can't even imagine how tense I would be if Van Alden and Rothstein were in a scene together. Mad props to Sepso though. He didn't cave even while being fucking drowned.

Richard? Could you not casually mention how you'd murder a mother, sisters and a dentist? It diminishes your hotness factor and dives right into Scary Town. Jack Huston is so great. His fidgety hands just kill me and I want to give Richard a hug every time I see him do that.

Nucky fucking killed me during the Ponzi reveal. The way SB said "I do" after the other guy bitchily asked if anyone else read any newspapers made me laugh out loud.

Gillian! The maid is so in on the poisoning.

The fights between Margaret/Nucky and Jimmy/Angela were interesting. Well, Jimmy/Angela wasn't so much a fight as it was just suuuuper tense mental warfare. Anyway, when I was watching N/M I never once thought he would hit Margarent. Not even after she slapped him. When I was watching J/A I kept going back and forth in my brain thinking "Oh, shit he's gonna hit her!" to "Oh, maybe not." back to "Yes he his!" Seriously, you guys. I was so stressed out during that scene. Congratulations, Michael Pitt. You have mastered the art of being quietly menacing.

On a related note, I wonder how much Angela actually revealed in the letter?

Edited by hardy har, Nov 28, 2010 @ 10:52 PM.

[PippiMarie]

First time poster here - just had to come on to say that I thought this was the most riveting episode of the season (at least what I've seen of it - I missed the Pilot and Episode 2)

Hoping that Harrow returns for Season 2 - agree with everyone that he is a fascinating character and Jack Huston doesn't miss a beat - with half a face he registers Harrow's complexity and emotions - his calculating remove (which didn't surprise me) in describing how he would draw the D'Alessio brother out of the fox hole by killing innocent family members, to his sorrow when telling Nucky that Margaret left.

Van Alden not only raised his gun, but also his badge and it was the badge that held more weight then the gun.

I'm a huge fan of Steve Buscemi's work so it hurts to say that I haven't been impressed with his work on BE, but I thought he was fantastic tonight - my favorite scene with him was when he chewed out the mayoral candidate and the other aldermen - pitch perfect.

The Maid is definitely in on poisoning the Commodore with Gillian - what I'm confused about is why Gillian moved now with trying to kill him. Loved the scene between her and Jimmy when Jimmy confronted her on it.

Can anyone explain to me why Mary left?

Angela is my least favorite character - I don't see Jimmy hurting her, I see him banishing her somehow.

Women in that era.....WOW!!! Pretty awful, same with the black characters, as we saw tonight.

Missed Chalky tonight and I loved the ending with Nucky walking into the fortune teller - his walk on the boardwalk looking for Margaret was sad indeed.

[Mikesaunt]

Not to defend the nut job but it came off to me as kind of accidental "Repent! Repent! Repent you... oh. Oops." Which is also why the reverand did not interfere. I totally didn't get the walking out with th gun and badge raised though.

Maybe so, however, he was not remorseful at all after he realized that Sebso was dead. If anything he quoted scripture that basically justified killing this man. He believes that his purpose is salvation--even for those that don't believe as he does. In his zealotry, and the fact that he has fallen prey to human sin, ( Lucy and the liquor), I knew that he would over compensate for his so called disgrace. I don't believe that the reverend realized that he was going to kill Sebso(until it was too late) and that is why he did not interfere. Also, as a AA, interfering with a white man assaulting another white man would have caused hesitation in 1920's America.

[Grom]

I agree that the Van Alden scenes went way over the top tonight. As good an actor as Michael Shannon is, Van Alden is feeling like the one false character in the whole piece. His whole character is just too much anymore and he threatens to unbalance the show with his craziness. All the other characters are far more finely drawn and then you get this sledgehammer of a character. I hope they bring in a strong partner for him next year to counterbalance the nuttiness.

[Scoutlet]

Sebso wasn't under water for that long, so I was surprised that he appeared to have died. I suppose it's possible that he just fainted.....but that would be a little "Fatal Attraction". Good on him for refusing to give in, in his own mild-mannered way. And I also found it hard to believe that the bystanders would just let it happen. The minister didn't appear to be cowed by Van Alden before, never mind to the point that he would just let him kill a guy.

I knew Nucky wanted a baby. I have no idea what will happen with those two, but I wouldn't be surprised if she turned up pregnant. That Lysol was not all that reliable as contraception. I just don't see the show dropping them altogether.

[fashionista79]

Which brings me to another point: why couldn't TPTB give us an Enforcement Agent who was sane, smart and likeable? Are you telling me there weren't any? I highly doubt it; the 19th Amendment did, in fact, pass so it must have been popular and the enforcers the good guys. Yes, I know it was well-intentioned but ill-advised (somewhat like our own drug war), but good grief, don't try to make me think that Van Alden is representative of the Bureau of Alcohol Enforcement.

I don't think Van Alden is supposed to be representative of the Bureau of Internal Revenue. I think he's a fanatic that happens to work for the BIR, but I never got the sense that the show was saying that all the men that work for BIR are overzealous about ending bootlegging. We've seen quite the opposite with Sebso and Van Alden's supervisor (whose name I forget). I think Van Alden has been using his religion and his life as a teetotaler (well, until he got drunk off the whiskey and slept with Lucy) to justify the means by which he wants to end/curtail bootlegging.

His fidgety hands just kill me and I want to give Richard a hug every time I see him do that.

Yeah, I quite like that little tick he has. It's another physical manifestation of his anxiousness that I see. Except, he's not so anxious when he has a gun in his hands, and woooo boy! His plan to draw out the D'Lessios was chilling!

Edited by fashionista79, Nov 28, 2010 @ 11:04 PM.

[Emily Thrace]

I guess having a general empathy for "the enemy" would be a hindrance to a sharpshooter, but still, Harrow surprised me. But I suspect he knew he would be turned down.

I wonder if that was more the point that he wanted to see what Jimmy would say, that he wants to know how far Jimmy would go.

I really hope those crazy kids make up-- they are so right for each other-- Nucky was correct when he pointed out that she'd hardly grieved for her husband, nor have the kids missed their daddy. I think that's the truth that really hurts.

Me too I suspect she's at her friend the temperance ladies house. Those two needed to clear the air and go back into this with eyes wide open, they're both too smart to simply see no evil.

The stuff with The Commodore was interesting,I wonder what will happen to the poor maid now. I wonder if Jimmy gets in the will now.

I liked the resolution of Angela's story, I figured they wouldn't let her leave the show from an interview that actress gave that seemed unlikely and I wasn't sure how they would get there. I actually thought Gillian might be the one to stop her. I know upthread that Gillian's dislike of Angela seems unwarranted but I kind of get it even if Gillian is sympathetic to Angela's situation Angela is still screwing around on her baby and Gillian is worried about him getting hurt.

Van Alden brings new meaning to holy roller. And when he walked away with his gun and badge aloft, I laughed so hard I almost cried. I don't think that was intended to be a humorous scene, but I couldn't stop laughing. This many brings the crazy like no one else.

Your not alone I laughed too, although I felt so awful for Sepso he was a victim of Van Alden's racism as much as anything and no one deserves that (even crooked cops).