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Season Four: What a Long, Strange Ride It's Been


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#1

CtLady

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Posted Nov 18, 2010 @ 10:57 AM

Please, everyone try to hold yourselves back here. LOL!

Anyhoo, I've seen this type of thread on the Lost and Smallville forums, so...given the collective bellyaching over S3 which I am a willing participant, I thought this would be a good place to give the viewers a place to make their pleas to Mr. Sutter - even though we know he'll march to the beat of his own drum!

#2

tater1

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Posted Nov 18, 2010 @ 11:47 AM

I'd ask him to stop telling us about his 7 season arc, and instead worry about entertaining his audience for each and every episode. There should be no such thing as a throwaway season just to give us information.

Also, please don't throw trouble after trouble after trouble at the characters without resolution - there are so many open plot holes and it's all wearing on the viewers.

Edited by tater1, Nov 18, 2010 @ 11:49 AM.


#3

Navin

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Posted Nov 18, 2010 @ 11:51 AM

No more A Team/Dukes of Hazard style action sequences.

No more soap opera drama.

I'm probably wishing for too much.

#4

tater1

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Posted Nov 18, 2010 @ 11:57 AM

Yes, and you have a great cast, use them. The interaction between them has been sorely missed this season.

Edited by tater1, Nov 18, 2010 @ 11:58 AM.


#5

TubeVision

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Posted Nov 18, 2010 @ 12:50 PM

I'd ask him to stop telling us about his 7 season arc, and instead worry about entertaining his audience for each and every episode.

Agreed. Looking back over all three seasons, the episodes I enjoyed the most (and the ones that really hooked me on SOA) were from Season One:

Ep. 3 - Fun Town
Ep. 4 - Patch Over
Ep. 5 - Giving Back

The thing that I remember most about these episodes is that each one had a "story" that was introduced and resolved while at the same time the over-arcing storylines (Mayan troubles, The Kid's birth/health, DEA coming to town) continued.

Not every episode consisted entirely of various unravelling threads that never have an end. That's the way I feel Season 3 has been for the most part.

So I too would wish that Season 4 returns to making each and every episode stand on its own as an awesome piece of storytelling and entertainment and not simply be a set-up for something to come (which never seems to happen...).

Also, I want more Grim Bastards!

#6

tater1

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Posted Nov 18, 2010 @ 1:14 PM

Yes, those were my favorite episodes as well for the reasons you mentioned.

.

#7

sekhet7

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Posted Nov 18, 2010 @ 1:49 PM

To bring Kozik back. Kenny Johnson was one of the two best things about this season for me (with Chibs being the other) and it would great if he became a regular next season. His scenes with Kim Coats were made of pure gold. If they really wanted to add a soapy twist with him, instead of him being possibly Clay's secret kid, make him Piney's secret kid instead. Piney's old enough and I personally think having two hot Winston sons instead of just one...well, okay, it's purely superficial but he and Opie dislike Tig and they seem pretty chummy...okay, it's purely superficial.

And speaking of superficial...instead of hot, naked Jax I want hot, naked Opie. Lots of it. The arm porn that man gives off alone is lethal.

Anyway, story wise...how about a lot less Gemma, a lot less Jax/Tara and more focus on the secondary characters we actually care about more. They made this season bearable despite the little screen time they had. I want to know more about their history and their back story and I don't want to have to go to an iApp to find it.

Clear some of the dead weight characters on the show. I'm looking at you Lyla.

More Alvarez. That dude is becoming more and more surprisingly awesome. He may end up being the show's Fortinbras in some weird, twisted way.

Go back to the Donna conspiracy storyline at some point or at least mention it. That is still a powder keg waiting to explode and I want to see it happen.

To never have to see anyone Irish on this show ever again (that goes double for Trinity)-except for Fiona (only when she's badass) or Kerrianne. Any time Fiona shows up to scare Gemma is always welcome.

I also would enjoy more single episode based stories to be more incorporated with the overall arc (like Eureka...one of my favorite S2 episodes). That kind of process made the earlier episodes much better than the ones we've had this season. It worked for The Shield and it should work for this show as well.

And finally...less soap, more realism and more Shakespearen themes please.

Edited by sekhet7, Nov 18, 2010 @ 2:18 PM.


#8

Empress1

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Posted Nov 18, 2010 @ 2:00 PM

Less Gemma. I like Katey Sagal as much as the next person - I raved about her work when I first discovered the show. And Kurt Sutter loves his wife and wants her front and center. I get it. But he's playing her out this season. It's beating me over the head: Gemma's ruthless! [whap!] Gemma values her family above all! [whap!] Kurt Sutter wants his wife to win an Emmy! [whap!] I have a headache now, stop it.

Less relationship drama in general; this is aimed at Jax and Tara. I'd actually like to see them stay broken up (and I liked them together last season), but then 99% of the time, I don't care about relationships in the shows I watch. (The 1% is Friday Night Lights.) If they work, they work, if they don't, they don't (and I'm a "Cut your losses" person, both when watching failing relationships and when I have the misfortune to have been in them, so when a couple goes back and forth for a while, I immediately get bored). Jax and Tara are too soapy and messy, and Jax ... kind of sucks, frankly. I think it would show strength of character for Tara to be like, "You treated me like shit, I'm done. If you want me back, earn it." Even if the baby comes to be - actually, especially if the baby comes to be, because it'll bug me if Sutter & co. play the "Babies fix everything!" card.

Less shock value for its own sake. That's all the incest plot was. The rape was shocking, but its fallout was the driving force behind S2. If you take out the incest, we're in the same place we've been in all along.

#9

IdesOfSmarch

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Posted Nov 18, 2010 @ 3:18 PM

Actual stories for guys other than Jax...especially Juice and Kozick.

Less Gemma the do-all savior.

Single Tara (whether she has the baby or not) being independent, not being victimized, and possibly dating a hot doctor. I love Jax/Tara but that relationship (and Jax in particular) have been damaged for me quite a bit this season so I would hate a quickie reunion with those two. He needs to earn her back over time. I also want more Tig/Tara scenes.

More Darby and Alvarez, less Hale and Stahl. And bring back Laroy from the Niners!

More fallout from Donna's death, possibly having the whole crew finding out how it went down.

I want Fiona & Kerrianne to move to Charming.

No more Maureen and Trinity, I don't want to see or hear from them ever again.

Edited by IdesOfSmarch, Nov 18, 2010 @ 3:22 PM.


#10

gianr369

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Posted Nov 18, 2010 @ 4:25 PM

Naked Opie??!! Pretty please.

#11

dexie

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Posted Nov 18, 2010 @ 4:59 PM

Yes, and you have a great cast, use them. The interaction between them has been sorely missed this season.


This. And can we go back to when the characters drove the plot and stop having the plot drive the characters (who must them be reduced to idiots to make it work.)

#12

lucid1

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Posted Nov 18, 2010 @ 5:24 PM

I can't stress this enough, no more Irish, ever, never ever again. Never.

#13

Mia Nina

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Posted Nov 18, 2010 @ 6:45 PM

As always, more Juice!

I want Fiona & Kerrianne to move to Charming.


Me too.

I also agree about Jax and Tara. I do believe Tara (if she survives next week) has to be single for a while. I think she should have relationships outside of the club and especially Jax. He can't be her whole world. I would love to see her befriending someone who hasn't been a part of the life.

#14

Poodle Mom

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Posted Nov 18, 2010 @ 8:30 PM

ITA with all of the suggestions. I want much more Darby (Pileggi is hot) and Alvarez is becoming more and more interesting. It would be interesting to see the Sons, Mayans and Darby work together to bring about the downfall of Hale. Quite honestly, Hale needs a beatdown for spilling the beans to Salazar about Tara and it wouldn't suprise me if he didn't have something to do with his brother's death. Remember, brother Hale would be the only one that would know what illegal shit his big brother is doing. That would be an interesting storyline.

More backstory on the secondary characters. More Grim Bastards and their relationship with the Sons.

Tara/Jax need to stay broken up. She needs to be independent. Get involved with a hot doctor/lawyer. She tends to get into these dysfunctional relationships and she needs to stand on her own two feet. Most female MDs don't take crap from their partners (ask my husband or my friends husbands), and Jax would have been a hot side item for me. Actually, Opie or Juice would do (...I'd consider Darby if I wanted to get really down and dirty ;-) )

@sekhat7 I agree with you and everyone else who want more Shakespearean themes.

#15

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Posted Nov 18, 2010 @ 10:09 PM

I came really close to requesting to start a Dear Kurt thread, which would have been a bit more snarky, but I don't want him sending Happy to my house or something.

Back to smaller, character-driven storylines (see Terriers for an example of how to do this while still creating jaw-dropping tension). Sex and violence are fine, but they should be there to service the plot, not the other way around.

Back to Gemma as the spice of the show, not the main course. (Remember when, like back in season one, you'd be all Oh shit, it's Gemma, duck and cover! every time she had a scene?)

Back to actually developing the characters. I want Bobby Elvis to be Elvis again, I want Tig to be skin-crawlingly weird, Juice to be goofy, and the new recruits to go away. They can take Chuck with them, I hate that one-joke character so much it hurts. I didn't share the Opie love that much, but at this point I'd sure like to know what's going on in his head these days. His friendship with Jax used to be such a driving force in the show.

And please, God, one season without rape, baby, or pregnancy drama. Now that Jax knows Tara is pregnant, are we doomed to a pregnancy storyline next season? And if so, will they be able to resist the new baby having the heart defect of doom?

Edited by kieyra, Nov 18, 2010 @ 10:16 PM.


#16

sekhet7

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Posted Nov 18, 2010 @ 11:18 PM

I would also like to see more of the Grim Bastards as well. Just no more Calaveras. Those guys are bafoons.

Also, another thing to add to the list, I would love it if the guys had to clean up their own messes and not have Gemma have to do it for them. It makes them look like incapable idiots and makes her character look a little ridiculous as well-not like they had to put much effort into it this season anyway. I am real tired of her butting in and having them having turn to her every single time to fix their problems. Especially Jax. It's amazing how the writers turned his idiotic yet brilliant gambit into a mess that only Gemma alone can clean up. It's getting old and a little irritating. I just want these guys to start acting their age for once and if they can actually fix their own problems like grown ups and not have mommy do it (again) like overgrown children.

I can hope, right?

They can take Chuck with them, I hate that one-joke character so much it hurts.


Thank you. He started to get old around the end of season two. Now he's just worn so thin you could tear a hole in him.

Edited by sekhet7, Nov 18, 2010 @ 11:45 PM.


#17

Navin

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Posted Nov 19, 2010 @ 10:40 AM

I want Jax to marry Ima.

*ducks*

#18

gianr369

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Posted Nov 19, 2010 @ 2:14 PM

Boo!!!!

Ugh, well at least he wouldn't be getting anyone pregnant. His equipment would fall off!!!

#19

Cher123

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Posted Nov 19, 2010 @ 7:32 PM

I want Jax to marry Ima.

*ducks*

Actually, that might not be a bad idea seeing as how he's been treating Tara. Jax deserves someone like Ima-ho, not someone like Tara. Tara is too good for him and i've been saying that since season 1.

Edited by TWoP Howard, Nov 21, 2010 @ 4:45 PM.
Fixed quote tags


#20

LazyBum1115

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Posted Nov 19, 2010 @ 10:33 PM

I want Jax to marry Ima.

Only if it happens off-screen and we never actually have to see or hear about Ima.

#21

ttfr1

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Posted Nov 20, 2010 @ 4:26 AM

Go back to the Donna conspiracy storyline at some point or at least mention it. That is still a powder keg waiting to explode and I want to see it happen.


Abso-friggin-lutely. I'm all about the Donna storyline. That's what keeps me watching this show. I wanted to see how Opie would come to grips with her murder in s2. As it played out, I wasn't all too happy. It's a sticky situation and it will be a hard storyline to re-visit and have it resolved to everyone's liking. I'm not a Tig fan so if Opie wasted his ass, it wouldn't bother me one iota. However, i realize I'm in the minority there. Tig has a ton of fans and I know Sutter won't be having Ope kill off Tig any time soon. Also, Ope has a few fans of his own, that, and Sutter clearly has a connection with Ryan Hurst. So, he ain't going anywhere, either. Which, makes me happy :) That being the case, the Donna issue will never be an easy one to resolve. If Opie stayed to character he would have killed both Tig and Clay. I'd have been perfectly happy with that but the show would be over. Sutter had to think of a way to keep the characters of Opie, Tig and Clay alive. All are big draws for the show and all top notch actors. So, we get Opie beating Tig's ass and then deciding to let Donna's murder slide because it's best for the club and to save his Dad's ass. Ugh! That scenario sucked. There is no way Opie would let those guys off so easy. I draw hope in the fact that Jax and Opie talked about changing the club slowly and using that as a way to get back at Clay. Still, it isn't enough. It'll never be enough for me.

I at least want Opie to NOT be all buddy buddy with Tig. I want tension there. It's not normal to see them getting along so well after such a horrible life changing event.

If this show gets all the 7 seasons Sutter wants, at some point I want Hell to rain down on Tig and Clay for what they did to Donna. And, I want Opie to bring that Hell.

Other changes. I want s1 Gemma back but a little less of her on my screen. I want more of the guys, like Juice and Bobby.

I want TONS more Chibs and Opie. I want more interaction between Ope and his dad, Piney. I want back-story on all of the characters, but mainly Chibs Opie and Piney. I want them to delve deeper into the friendship between Jax and Ope. I want to know what makes Chibs tick. Is he really as bad ass as the rest of the guys? Sometimes I feel like he's there 'cause he has no where else to go. What's up with him? We should have gotten those answers this season.

I want the guys. I want the club. Less Gemma. Less Tara.

Oh, and neekid Opie, please :)

#22

tater1

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Posted Nov 20, 2010 @ 8:33 AM

Yup. As much as this season has been a craptastic bust, the show started losing me with the way they handled (or didn't handle) the murder of Donna in S2. It's nonsensical that Opie just put her death on back burner. So Jax is looking at getting whacked because he betrayed SOA by talking to Stahl to help out Gemma and the club, but another SOA member can kill another member's wife no problem no repercussion. Especially with an impulsive hothead like Opie. And not only have we left that issue (along with LuAnne's murder) just out there, but they are not even DISCUSSED this season. We've spent all friggin year on the Jax/Gemma show and this season seems a complete throwaway. At least the first 9 episodes - and that's what I meant earlier by saying Sutter needs to make every show count and every show satisfy in some way.

I put up with a lot of the building tension and barrage of bad things happening last season because I thought we would get some resolution and cathartic bang for our buck. Instead we get an absurd release of Zoebelle, NOTHING but a punch to Tig after Opie finding out he killed Donna and nothing to Clay who ordered it, and who's LuAnne again? The only yessss part of the ending was the Henry Rollins character getting whacked at the tattoo shop. That was a great scene not because it was violent, but because the Sons did something right, and because humanizing him at the end was a good touch.

I am one of Tig's fans, because his perversion and being a true badass and his humor are desperately needed, so I don't want to see him killed off. At least yet. I do think he has to pay for Donna's murder in the end, and not just by having few days feeling bad or guilty about it.

editing to stay to stay right on topic - to the writers, stop insulting your viewers, don't use the iPhone app to tell us important stuff instead of showing us, and to Sutter stop attacking your critics and telling us we don't get it.

Edited by tater1, Nov 20, 2010 @ 9:06 AM.


#23

sekhet7

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Posted Nov 21, 2010 @ 9:51 PM

Another couple of things I want for S4:

That they don't telegraph plot lines and devices from a mile away like they have done repeatedly this season. It's caused me to question my faith in this show three times so far-and the season still has two more episodes left. Enough with the dropping anvils. And like dead weight characters, don't have dead weight plot lines either that just go nowhere (eg., the whole adoption mess).

Also, have the plot actually be effective and surprising and less misleading and "curve ball" like. For example, the lingering threat of Chibs' family to be constantly in danger only to have them be completely fine in the end. I have no problem with that specifically, it's just that the more this show does it the more predictable it gets.

I want TONS more Chibs and Opie. I want more interaction between Ope and his dad, Piney. I want back-story on all of the characters, but mainly Chibs Opie and Piney. I want them to delve deeper into the friendship between Jax and Ope. I want to know what makes Chibs tick. Is he really as bad ass as the rest of the guys? Sometimes I feel like he's there 'cause he has no where else to go. What's up with him? We should have gotten those answers this season.


As much as this season has been a craptastic bust, the show started losing me with the way they handled (or didn't handle) the murder of Donna in S2. It's nonsensical that Opie just put her death on back burner. So Jax is looking at getting whacked because he betrayed SOA by talking to Stahl to help out Gemma and the club, but another SOA member can kill another member's wife no problem no repercussion. Especially with an impulsive hothead like Opie. And not only have we left that issue (along with LuAnne's murder) just out there, but they are not even DISCUSSED this season. We've spent all friggin year on the Jax/Gemma show and this season seems a complete throwaway. At least the first 9 episodes - and that's what I meant earlier by saying Sutter needs to make every show count and every show satisfy in some way.

I put up with a lot of the building tension and barrage of bad things happening last season because I thought we would get some resolution and cathartic bang for our buck. Instead we get an absurd release of Zoebelle, NOTHING but a punch to Tig after Opie finding out he killed Donna and nothing to Clay who ordered it, and who's LuAnne again?


You can never go wrong with Chibs. He's grown more defined as a character over the last two seasons and has benefited because of it. He's easily my favorite character right now. I also agree with you about him only being in the SOA partially because he couldn't go anywhere else and partially he couldn't find people who were better role models (he was pretty young when he joined both the IRA and the SOA). If he had, who knows where he could have gone? I just hope they give him something constructive to do next season. Maybe have Kerrianne surprise him with a visit to Charming where we can see him as a dad for a while?

As for Opie, other than bringing back up the Donna issue, I just want him to stop wallowing and get his head out of his ass. He needs a good kick to remember that he's not the only person who feels her loss. I want to see the effect on his kids too since they whitewashed over that as well. However, as long as he stays hot, I'll still ogle over him at least on a shallow level but he still has a lot to do to get back in my good graces.

And if the show brings up more of their personal history with SAMCRO as well, all the better.

As for the Luanne mystery...is it wrong if I want Lyla to be the one who did it? It might actually make her interesting.

I want Jax to marry Ima.

*ducks*


I would like to see that for a laugh but only for a while.

Edited by sekhet7, Nov 22, 2010 @ 2:52 AM.


#24

Allie J

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Posted Nov 22, 2010 @ 1:28 PM

More Juice.
More Chibs.
More Bobby.
More Kozik.
And much, much more Tig.

That's all I need to be happy.

Oh! And more Happy.

#25

CtLady

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Posted Nov 23, 2010 @ 2:05 PM

* I want Tig to go back to being the creepy, sick pup Tig from S1 instead of slapstick Tig with the mad scientist hair.

* I want small doses of Opie and Chibs since they've gotten a LOT of story time between the Donna stuff in S1 and the Fiona/Kerrianne/Belfast stuff this season.

* I'd like to have some kind of backstory on Juice

* actual name for Happy (and more than 5 words an ep for him - I know he's a tech asst. whose been given a part, but he is now SAMCRO and every SAMCRO member is in the opening credits - do I dare hope that Happy will be next season???)

* I want Gemma to get back in her cage and be the quiet strength behind this club instead of the 'fix all'

* I'd like a hookup between Tig and that blonde deputy lady - that'll get her fixed into the club for sure?

* I do NOT want ANY MORE ROADTRIPS Mr. Sutter. Especially ones which take place across the pond. Keep these boys in Charming where they belong

* I want more Mayan/Niner/Henry Lin

* I want Lyla to be gone and have her take the rest of the porn sluts with her. She just doesn't....I don't know...fit

* I want some interaction between Opie and his kids to...you know...remind us that he IS a father

* I'd like to know where Mary went off to

* I'd like for an entire full year to have passed in SOA time. Really...it's only been several months since the pilot as evidenced by Abel's age

* I'd like a followup on the Devils Tribe/SOA Nevada sitch

* I'd like more interaction with other charters to show the alliances.

* More runs! NOTE: These do NOT constitute 'road trips'?

* I'd like more digging into the realism and debauchery of the MC. Hey...this IS an FX show. Dont' say you can't 'go there'. You already had Gemma point a gun at a baby's head, so you're clear!

#26

TWoP Howard

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Posted Nov 27, 2010 @ 11:30 AM

Iíve changed the name of the thread to reflect that fact that we donít allow list posts on the site. They donít do a lot to foster discussion. Rather than listing several things, please name a few and tell us why you are hoping for that to happen. Thanks.

#27

Doobry

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Posted Nov 27, 2010 @ 6:12 PM

I'd like them to pay a little bit more for authentic accent talent.. Jimmy's Irish lilt sounds like a Welshman trying to do an impression of an Indian woman doing an impression of an Irish man.. Also known as awful!

I'd like Unser to go into remission, he's one of the best people in SOA and I'd like Tig to forgive the guy from The Shield or just throw a hand grenade in his lap..

#28

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Posted Nov 27, 2010 @ 9:02 PM

It's nonsensical that Opie just put her death on back burner.


You can blame Sutter for that. He literally said that the Donna stuff would be put on the 'back burner'. The only bright spot with that is Kurt hasn't totally forgotten about it and it should come up in a later season.

I think Kurt just doesn't know how to write a resolution on Donna that will satisfy everyone. In the SoA world only blood will atone for Donna's death.

As for Opie's kids, I would imagine they'll have to hire new child actors when they finally do show them again. It's been over a year since they've shown them. Kids change a lot as they grow and in the time-line of SoA, the child actors that played Ellie and Kenny have probably grown and changed too much to be used anymore. Especially the little boy that played Kenny. He was pretty young...6 or so. After all this time he's nearing 8 years old. they can't use him anymore. He'd look too different. It's been less than a year from pilot to where they are now. Could explain why we never see Ope's kids.

#29

tater1

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Posted Nov 27, 2010 @ 10:54 PM

You can blame Sutter for that. He literally said that the Donna stuff would be put on the 'back burner'. The only bright spot with that is Kurt hasn't totally forgotten about it and it should come up in a later season.


I figured that we'd get back it at some point, but they handled it horribly. It's okay for a writer to put a big storyline on back burner if it's done in a way that feels natural and organic to the story. But in this case we had that build up as the major reveal in S2, and then the characters this season not only don't deal with it, it's never even mentioned among themselves. Maybe the editing is just horrible and there is some explanation on the cutting room floor - but this whole season has felt almost out of place, like it took place before S2. (Except for the search for that damn baby which has really been just a device for KS to give us this backstory.)

I'm going to watch the finale just because I've seen every show but my expectations couldn't be any lower.

#30

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Posted Nov 27, 2010 @ 11:45 PM

But you have to remember that this entire season has happened over a period of, what, 2 weeks? So while it feels like forever to us, they have just been in crisis mode looking for Abel. The 'big reveal' was in episode 11 (Service) of season 2, and those last 3 episodes took place over 48 hours. Thus, it has literally been about what, 3 weeks, full of crisis (war with Zobelle/retribution for Gemma/finding Abel) since Opie found out that it was Tig who killed Donna. I don't think that the issue has been resolved or has gone away: Opie agreed to let Jax find a way to deal with Clay and save the club and I fully expect that that whole issue will rise back to the surface before the show is done.

As for the issue about Kenny and Ellie in season 4 - if the show time-jumps to deal with the prison issue, then that may well solve the problem of having to find new children. What I am hoping for is that they find some twins to play Abel so we don't have to constantly wonder "who is that brown-haired child, a moment ago Abel was blond and twice the size" - it's become very distracting!

Edited by trinitygirl, Nov 27, 2010 @ 11:48 PM.