118 replies to this topic

[TWoP Howard]

From ZAP2it:

While visiting Chicago for the Republican National Convention, Nucky gets some alarming news from Atlantic City.

Edited by TWoP Howard, Dec 8, 2010 @ 3:13 PM.

[AimingforYoko]

If Rose Van Alden being barren is not a case of nature protecting itself, I don't know what is.
I did like the swerve of Van Alden sending Jimmy's money to Angela and denying his wife. It fits him perfectly. I do wonder why he was withholding it in the first place. What did he hope to accomplish?

[Midge]

Oh, Lucy is going to be trouble!

Good ep, glad war buddy is still around, but it was a little frustrating. I wanted Jimmy and Nucky to put 2 and 2 together and figure out that VanAlden had more then a suspicion about Jimmy.

And Angela is a nitwit.

Also, who was in the car when Ely went into the casino? Who knocked over the casino? I'm having a little trouble keeping the different factions straight.

I both can't image & incredibly disturbed by the idea of Mr & Mrs van Alden having sex/getting preggers. I did think for a minute he was going to be nice to her though, but I was obviously wrong.

[mochamajesty]

Did Jimmy say something about a "long lost son" in his conversation with Nucky? If so, I wonder what that was about.

I find it hard to believe that Margaret is so naive that she had no clue that Nucky was involved in bootleg liquer until she saw the ledger.

I do wonder why he was withholding it in the first place. What did he hope to accomplish?

I wondered that as well. How sadistic, getting his wife's hopes up then writing her a letter (!) telling her that he was going back on his word. He couldn't even tell her in person.

"You bohemian types like to go au natural." Oh, I love you, Gillian. I thought for a minute she was going to offer to pay the grocery bill. I wonder why she didn't.

Jimmy and Nucky both played the reunion scene to the hilt. Jimmy's longing (still) for Nucky's approval even with "all the he's accomplished". Nucky's contempt for him for (supposedly) leaving Angela and their kid high and dry. Loved it!

Margaret bitch slapping Lucy made my weekend. I am sort of disappointed that she sunk to Lucy's level though.

Edited by mochamajesty, Nov 7, 2010 @ 10:34 PM.

[Contralto]

Does Van Alden want his wife to keep the presumption of barrenness because he suspects that he's the real reason they're childless?

Did the real Torrio have a wall eye?

Didn't Harding actually write that poem to Carrie Phillips? Or did he recycle it?

I liked Fleming better last week.

BTW, "bohemian" just meant something like "free-spirited and unconventional" -- "you bohemian gals go au naturel" was the 1920 version of "you hippie chicks don't bathe."

Edited by Contralto, Nov 7, 2010 @ 10:16 PM.

[Scoutlet]

God, Van Alden is a nightmare.

Looks like there's going to be trouble in paradise.

I learned something about history tonight, which is always good. I didn't realize it took so many ballots to nominate Harding. That actor didn't look much like him, did he? From what I've seen Harding was a good-looking man.

Also glad Richard is still there! Here's to hoping he makes it to AC.

Margaret is turning into quite the adept slapper.

Edited by Scoutlet, Nov 7, 2010 @ 10:39 PM.

[Emily Thrace]

Well that was interesting I need to look up the results of the election their talking about here. Its really neat after so many episodes of telling us what a power broker Nucky to finally have them show us why. Nucky is awesome and its really great to see him in his element I also loved the quiet moment with his brother. It great to have a complex protagonist whom you don't feel guilty liking.

I am worried about Margaret I knew the secound Nucky asked she would look at the ledger but I honestly have no idea what she's going to do about it. The trouble is its not as simple as Nucky traffic's liquor makes him a bad man, if he didn't do it someone else would and probably a lot more ruthlessly. I think that's perhaps the most interesting thing about Nucky's story is that while he certainly do it just for charity, he was definitely good for the people of Atlantic City.

I am officially annoyed with Van Alden's story its just way to over done right now and frankly I don't care about him or even his pathetic wife. The story of the birth of the FBI should be a complelling story but I really don't care about Van Alden. I get it TPTB religion makes you weird now can we please get back to the police work?

Jimmy's on his way back to AC which is great hopefully his buddy will be along for the ride. I totally figured Gillian was sleeping with Lucky for the info/to protect Jimmy. I loved their convo the actors have great chemistry for the odd relationship their playing.

I don't know if Angela is a twit, a dreamer perhaps but she seems to have a fair amount of fight especially for a girl form that era.

[SunshineDay]

I did like the swerve of Van Alden sending Jimmy's money to Angela and denying his wife. It fits him perfectly. I do wonder why he was withholding it in the first place. What did he hope to accomplish?

Good question. Maybe to make her desperate enough to tell him where Jimmy is and what he's done.

[Mikesaunt]

Nucky, Nucky, Nucky- what a shrewd operator you are. I can see why you run Atlantic City so well. You never forget a friend and you certaintly know how to punish your enemies--hello, speaking to you Senator Edge.
As for how he feels about Margaret, it became very clear that he loves her. If he didn't he would not have asked her to protect his office and hide the ledger. Unfortunately, after her actions, I don't think the feelings are reciprocated. Margaret betrayed his trust but I don't know what she wants with that information. She is not naive. She knows that Nucky is not just any old businessman, thus, the information in the ledger is affiliated with illegal actions. Is this a means to have something to hold over Nucky? Maybe, some juicy stuff to tip Van Alden about if Nucky disappoints her? I am not so sure about Margaret anymore. As for dealing with Lucy I was impressed with her round house right to Ms. Lucy's jaw. One thing's for sure Ms. Lucy will not go quietly into the night.

Eli, you may have been the favorite son, but you are as thick as a brick. Without Nucky you would be nothing.

Jimmy and Richard will soon be in Atlantic City ready to wreak havoc there. The offer that Nucky made to Jimmy would make me come home too. Won't Angela be so happy to see him! Gillian really knows how to stick in the needle doesn't she? She pratically sneered the word "Bohemian" at Angela. You could see the barely concealed contempt that she has for Angela. Wonder if she'll spill the beans to Jimmy when he returns home.

So, Nucky once had a son. Hmmm...interesting stuff the writers toss into the mix. Does this mean that Mable died in childbirth? Or, was the child born prematurely and died afterward. That could explain the fixation he has with the Premie shop on the boardwalk. Either way you can see how affected he is about children especially babies. Part of Margaret's attraction is those two adorable kids of hers. Or, is he Jimmy's father, and refers to "once" having a son as acknowledging he had no part in his life, so the child was "lost" to him. I don't know. That's what makes me come back week after week to see what is going to happen next.

Edited by Mikesaunt, Nov 7, 2010 @ 10:50 PM.

[bmsartre]

Also, who was in the car when Ely went into the casino? Who knocked over the casino? I'm having a little trouble keeping the different factions straight.

Mrs. Eli was in the car when Eli went to make the pick-up. They'd just left a previous social engagement. Lucky and the D'Alessio brothers (they're the dudes who keep bugging Mickey "Doyle" at the barber shop for the money he owes them) knocked over the casino. Meyer Lansky drove the getaway car.

It was very strange to see Kessler get his crotch grabbed.

And when Gillian says about Lucky, "Where do I begin?" I thought Well, where you could begin can't be talked about in proper company, or to your son! Her calling Jimmy "honey pot" was... squicky.

Van Alden is just cruel. "God's will", my arse. He doesn't want to have a baby with her for some reason.

Now that Eli's down like this, I wonder if he won't reconsider his envy of Nucky's place on the hierarchy.

Margaret most certainly knew where Nucky gets his money. I think she was just shocked at how much money it is. Up to now, only Nucky (and perhaps Kessler) knew exactly how much, from whom and when.

I'm glad Jimmy is making Nucky wait, if only because it means he's starting to consider his own interests outside of getting validaton from Nucky, even if it's one step back with the whining at the bar he did. And he's also reconsidering the validation he got from Torrio, as seen in the poker scene with all the Italians. With whom he wasn't playing, probably becuase he wasn't invited. In that, Nucky is right, the Irish Jimmy will always be an outsider to that crew. Torrio's praise means nothing.

I'm surprised they didn't work in the rumours that Warren Harding was part black, too. That was grist for the rumour mill for years. Granted, it might have been only a drop, but in '20s America, that was enough.

Does this mean that Mable died in childbirth?

Mabel died of TB eight years before. Nucky mentioned this in Episode 1.

Edited by bmsartre, Nov 7, 2010 @ 10:51 PM.

[Brakchi]

I don't know if Angela is a twit, a dreamer perhaps but she seems to have a fair amount of fight especially for a girl form that era.

I'm with you on that one. I have nothing but empathy for her. What a miserable position to be trapped in and I think trapped is the operative word. To have a baby with Jimmy, who she seems to have shared one or two months with in 3 years, is bad enough. He is not exactly the best boyfriend material. But to then fall in love with a woman in that time period. Here is a talented artist who wants much out of life but was born in a time where her chances of finding fulfillment are limited to say the least. I see her as a dreamer, possibly a tragic one, all the way.

Does Van Alden want his wife to keep the presumption of barrenness because he suspects that he's the real reason they're childless?

I'll have to rewatch that part. Van Alden is one intriguing creep. What a horrible letter to write.

I find it hard to believe that Margaret is so naive that she had no clue that Nucky was involved in bootleg liquer until she saw it with her own eyes. Really?

I don't think it was a matter of her not knowing he had some involvement. I think it was the size of those numbers and the variety of things he controlled which stunned her.

Margaret bitch slapping Lucy made my weekend. I am sort of disappointed that she sunk to Lucy's level though.

I didn't take any enjoyment out of the scene. A few weeks ago I would have but Lucy has sunk to such a pathetic level and seemingly has no way out of it (considering how dimwitted she is). I felt bad for her despite how annoying she is.

Edited by Brakchi, Nov 7, 2010 @ 10:52 PM.

[lady luck]

Margaret bitch slapping Lucy made my weekend. I am sort of disappointed that she sunk to Lucy's level though.

Word. But I think Margaret knew she had to come down to Lucy's level to get through her thick skull. Lucy only speaks Lucy, she doesn't speak Margaret. I hope in the future TPTB make Nucky do his own dirty work when it comes to Lucy, though.

[growsonwalls]

[snip] Sure [Margaret’s] bitch-slapping Lucy might have been fun to watch, but I thought it was out of character. Margaret's had to endure a lot of abuse in her life, it seemed somehow strange for her to change so quickly. But it seems as if they're moving way too fast with Margaret. In the first episode she was being beaten by her drunken husband, and now she's like Carmela Soprano 2.0. I would like to have had some of that early-episodes Margaret back. The thick red lipstick she was wearing, along with the fancy hat, also seemed out of character. As a point of comparison, I think of Barb in Big Love. For four seasons, she's basically been the same -- at times self-righteous, but kind, loving, and tactful. A real heroine. It would be easier for the writers to make "Boss Lady" a monster, but I like that they instead made Barb the moral center of the show. I kind of want Margaret to remain the moral center of Boardwalk Empire, so please don't cheapen her and make her hard and shrewish.

I felt horrible for Van Alden's wife, but somehow that storyline seems much more realistic. Many women do think a child will somehow change their husbands from horrid creeps to loving princes. Sad but believable.

I'm really liking the Jimmy/Nucky relationship more and more.

Edited by TWoP Howard, Nov 8, 2010 @ 1:45 AM.
Boards on boards

[Brakchi]

In the first episode she was being beaten by her drunken husband, and now she's like Carmela Soprano 2.0.

She seems to be a person as interested in the machinations of power than just enjoying the riches. I can't see Carmela looking at that binder. The death of her husband seemed to serve as an act that liberated her.

Sure her bitch-slapping Lucy might have been fun to watch, but I thought it was out of character.

Considering her reaction when Nucky froze her out for awhile and considering the way Lucy treated her (making Margaret dress her while shoving her naked body in Margaret's face), I think it is very much in character with how someone like Margaret would have reacted.

Gillian really knows how to stick in the needle doesn't she? She pratically sneered the word "Bohemian" at Angela. You could see the barely concealed contempt that she has for Angela. Wonder if she'll spill the beans to Jimmy when he returns home.

I see Gillian's attitude toward Angela as complicated. Gillian seems to have had a life of relying on her looks and manipulation of men and so there seems to be a mixture of emotions expressed to Angela.

Edited by Brakchi, Nov 7, 2010 @ 11:37 PM.

[Contralto]

The thick red lipstick she was wearing, along with the fancy hat, also seemed out of character.

In fairness, women hadn't openly worn makeup for long -- I don't think they had many shades to choose from. Margaret's worn a lot of lovely, tasteful clothes.

Loved Madame J. begging Margaret for help. So Nucky's cut off Lucy's credit?

Meyer Lansky drove the getaway car.

I thought that was the youngest D'Alessio brother. Was there a Pope Phineas?

[bmsartre]

I thought that was the youngest D'Alessio brother. Was there a Pope Phineas?

I could be wrong. I'll have to watch again. At first glance, I thought it was Lansky, the kid looked young enough. I've never heard of a Pope Pheneas, myself.

[peridot16]

Margaret shouldn't be poking around in Nucky's business. He is the only way she is supporting herself and her family, I wouldn't be trying to dig up anything.

Van Alden is a bigger prick than I imagined, letting Jimmy's girlfriend not having a way to support herself and coldly telling his wife to keep eating dinner when she's distraught. I'm glad he finally gave Angela the money, but I felt so bad for his wife.

Why is Nucky continuing on being an asshole to Jimmy, especially if he needs him to come back. The D'Alessio brothers are very bold, coming after Nucky's family like that. Who the hell was on the phone with Margaret? That really freaked me out.

It was good to see Richard Harrow again.

[izabella]

Who the hell was on the phone with Margaret? That really freaked me out.

And then she tells the mystery caller her name! Way to keep yourself on the DL, Mrs. Schroeder.

[Contralto]

I've never heard of a Pope Pheneas, myself.

Sorry, I was trying to make a joke. The D'Alessio brothers are all named for popes, and the youngest has a striking resemblance to Disney's Phineas.

So this week Lucy calls Annabelle out for wearing a wig . . . and last week her hair looked so phony that it had to be deliberate . . . and the week before her head was tied up in a scarf. Is Annabelle bald?

[Kingloser]

I don't get this show after 8 episodes. It can't decide whether it wants too be a well acted period piece that is subtle enough to leave the viewer to draw their own conclusions or a ridiculously bad soap opera with all the subtlety of an inebriated blue whale on stilts. I wish it would make up it's mind so it would not be Russian roulette on Sundays.

Edited by Kingloser, Nov 8, 2010 @ 1:13 AM.

[little ghost]

When Margaret was in Nucky's office part of me was expecting Lucy to come out of nowhere and attack her or something.

[mochamajesty]

Loved Madame J. begging Margaret for help. So Nucky's cut off Lucy's credit?

I walked in on the tail end of Madame J's request, when she informed Margaret that Nucky cut Lucy off. What exactly did she expect Margaret to do? Pay Lucy's bill? Really? Even if Margaret were inclined to do so, Nucky wouldn't approve.

peridot16

Why is Nucky continuing on being an asshole to Jimmy, especially if he needs him to come back.

IMO, it was because Nucky thought that Jimmy was buying new suits and watches for himself while his family starved - and depended on NUCKY for help. We know how Nucky feels about women and children.

ETA- I am undecided about Van Alden's motives last night. Was he lying when he told his wife he would do what he can? Or did he intend to help her get the operation and then change his mind after receiving the pamphlet? Either way, he's a douche. And who sent him the pamphlet, anyway? My old eyes are not what they used to be. Was it his wife or someone else? Do they really communicate by letter?

Edited by mochamajesty, Nov 8, 2010 @ 6:44 AM.

[Brian in Atl]

I'd say everyone is misreading Van Alden. He wants to send Angela's money to his wife for the operation. He then stuffs the money into an envelope and sends it to Angela as quickly as he can to remove the temptation.

He sees the money as evil, gangster's spoils (and he's right, of course). The money is one of the many temptations that come Van Alden's way and that he has to beat (sometimes literally) out of his system. What we're seeing is the twisted psychology that makes someone an "untouchable". Everyone around him will probably end up corrupted by Nucky. He won't, and just because he's that much of a freak.

[jerseydevils]

Who the hell was on the phone with Margaret? That really freaked me out.

I was thinking it was Lucy. Though with all of Nucky's shady dealings, she probably wouldn't be the only person who would call him in the middle of the night.

[Scorpiosrule]

Who the hell was on the phone with Margaret? That really freaked me out.

I think it was Van Alden.

I can't wait for the conversation between Jimmy and Angela and he asks her why she didn't write back to him when he sent money.

I was so disappointed that Margaret opened the ledger, after Nucky expressly told her not to, and that he was asking her because he trusted her.

I laughed and cheered when Margaret hauled off and slapped Lucy. It was the only way to stop her. And now I'll never know if it's Lucy I'm watching or Paz playing herself after reading that horrid article from last May.

I'm hoping that ultimately, Van Alden will be caught intercepting mail. It is a federal offense after all, and he works for the IRS, not the Postal service, and he really has no proof against Jimmy, and the letters were addressed to Angela, not Jimmy.

Count me in as one who thought who the hell is Nucky to be talking down to Jimmy, when it was Nucky who told him to get out of town and make something of himself. And so much for knowing Jimmy and thinking that he wouldn't send Angela money or whatever. So, now that Nucky really needs Jimmy, he tells him to come back.

And I believe that Torrio was one of those mob bosses that didn't care if his gang weren't all Sicilian/Italian...so I really didn't care for the poker being played in Italian, just to show Jimmy that Nucky knew what he was talking about and made the decision for him to go back to Atlantic City, instead of Jimmy deciding to do so by himself.

Based on the preview for next week, I'm wondering how Margaret found out what she does.

[stillshimpy]

And then she tells the mystery caller her name! Way to keep yourself on the DL, Mrs. Schroeder.

I liked that detail because it also stood out to me as, "Gah! Why would you do that?" and then I realized because Margaret has no context for phone call like that. She hasn't seen umpteen gangster or horror movies. Phone service is supposed to be a fairly new thing to Margaret, and in general, so no one on the other end of the line doesn't scream "The call is coming from inside the house!" to her but rather, "Is this a bad connection? A wrong connection?"

It was just one of those neat details that was designed for the actual time period, rather than for modern expectations. It was kind of cool, I thought. Same thing with Nucky's almost laughable account book. "Fifteen hundred casks of this totally illegal crap I should only be talking about in coded references but it's early days yet! a.k.a. whisky." My husband and I were dying laughing at the clearly spelled out, detailed, illegal activity. It was like Van Alden's Dream Journal of Fulfilled Wishes. Holy crow.

Then it occurred to me that the concept of coding might not be widespread as of yet and that in the first year of prohibition they were likely still figuring out that a case of whisky needed to be referred to as a box of silk scarves, etc.

I walked in on the tail end of Madame J's request, when she informed Margaret that Nucky cut Lucy off. What exactly did she expect Margaret to do? Pay Lucy's bill? Really? Even if Margaret were inclined to do so, Nucky wouldn't approve.

That scene worked for me because Margaret is having the very same "And I'm supposed to...what?" reaction. I think Madame J. was simply panicked. Lucy was being loud, crude (as per usual) and may have been blitzed on top of everything else. Even if she called the police to remove Lucy, Lucy could potentially wreak a lot of havoc on the delicate wares of that shop before they arrived. Madame J. saw Margaret and rather than having a completely logical and reasonable reaction of "Hmmm, but what could she really do?" flew to her in a panic, which may not make a lot of sense but is tremendously human. Not all that long ago I neighbor came flying to my door when she had a pipe rupture, even though she'd called a plumber she couldn't just stand there and watch her house flood. I am about the last person you'd look at and think, "Wow, I bet she's really capable!" but a natural impulse when panicked is to get help from the first source you can find. In my neighbor's case, as luck would have it, about the only super practical skill I have is that I do things like memorize where the main water shut off is in a house, and we have the same floor plan, so dumb luck that I actually was able to do something.

But I'm saying that as amusing as it was to see Madame J. come flapping over to Margaret, it made sense to me. I think it also marked the change in perception of Margaret that she hasn't quite adjusted to. She's the mistress of the most powerful man in that town. She has an association with power now which has to be positively surreal for her.

Lucy and Margaret just keep trading mistakes in how to approach each other. First Lucy idiotically decided to make sure that the woman she suspected as a rival had really good reason to hate her, multiple times, no less. Now Margaret, mostly for the times she had to put up with Lucy being horrible to her, hauls off and slaps her. Admittedly, at least Margaret seems to be unaware of the scope of Nucky's illegal operations when she cracks Lucy across the face. Common sense would dictate an understanding that, moron though she is, Lucy might actually be in possession of some kind of dangerous information when it comes to Nucky. Pay for her broach, call her a cab, and dump the problem in Nucky's lap when he gets back. Margaret doesn't think to do that, and it's not likely to end well.

By the way, I do think that Margaret was unaware of the scope of Nucky's illegal dealings. I think she realized he had some corrupt dealings, greasing the wheels of power, etc. and that he was clearly involved in illegal liquor production to an extent, but I think she thought he was what Jimmy called him in the premiere, half a gangster, if that.

ETA:

I was so disappointed that Margaret opened the ledger, after Nucky expressly told her not to, and that he was asking her because he trusted her.

I don't see it that way, Scorpiosrule, he asked her not to open the ledger so that he could continue to conceal things he didn't want to discuss. He told her not to open it specifically because he hasn't trusted her with much truth of what it is he does. He wasn't trusting her, as much as he was asking her to willfully maintain blind loyalty at his say so.

I was glad she opened it, and really I think Nucky was wrong to tell her not to open it. I don't think that was Van Alden on the phone, I think that was whoever shot Eil, Lucky's men. I think having realized that they'd felled Nucky's brother, and that Nucky was out of town they were checking to see if the joint really was unguarded, because a great way for Lucky to get rid of Nucky? Turn that stuff over to the feds. It's possible it was Van Alden, working on the same premise, but I think if he'd heard that Margaret was over there, by herself in the middle of the darned night, it wouldn't have exactly stopped him from raiding the joint.

Edited by stillshimpy, Nov 8, 2010 @ 8:54 AM.

[Sanveann]

I'd say everyone is misreading Van Alden. He wants to send Angela's money to his wife for the operation. He then stuffs the money into an envelope and sends it to Angela as quickly as he can to remove the temptation.

That was exactly the impression I got ... he planned to do it, then felt it was wrong and gave it to Angela ASAP so he wouldn't be tempted further.

(Incidentally, anyone else think of Inspector Javert every time they see Van Alden? Someone who tries very very hard to be right and moral, but is so incapable of seeing any shades of gray that they do more harm than good.)

My guess was that it was Nucky -- or one of his associates -- who called Margaret to make sure that she'd actually done as he'd told her to do (sort of a test). I do wish she hadn't looked in the ledger. I don't think she did it out of any sort of malicious or self-serving intent, personally ... I think she's actually a fairly decent woman (for all her current setup) and wanted to know what the man she's involved and who is supporting her family is into. And frankly, Nucky sort of sent up a huge red flag by telling her not to look in it ... if he hadn't, she probably wouldn't have thought twice about bothering to look in a ledger.

Edited by Sanveann, Nov 8, 2010 @ 9:14 AM.

[izabella]

I thought it was interesting that is was clearly the middle of the night when she first took the ledger out of the drawer and the phone rang. The next time we see her, when she opens the ledger, there is light streaming in through the window. So she must have sat at that desk for at least a few hours considering whether to open it or not.

Of course, we see that scene after Nucky returned to town and went to see Eli, so I was expecting him to walk in the door and find Margaret looking through his ledger.

[Sparkwriter]

I also thought Margaret looked a hell of a lot more comfortable behind Nucky's desk than Eli.

[PowerBum]

I don't get this show after 8 episodes. It can't decide whether it wants too be a well acted period piece that is subtle enough to leave the viewer to draw their own conclusions or a ridiculously bad soap opera with all the subtlety of an inebriated blue whale on stilts.

Maybe HBO is trying to combine the Deadwood and True Blood audiences? Zing!

Anyway, it's really only the characters of Nucky and Jimmy (and somewhat Al and the sniper from last week) that keep me coming back every episode. The female characters, the other criminals, and Nucky's brother are all rather boring and predictable to watch. I would usually add Van Alden to that lot (including the self-flagellation), but the reveal of what he did with Jimmy's money and the letter he sent his wife really got me to hate the bastard. However, it looks like next week's episode may give Chalky something to do, so maybe I just need to give the writers more time to flesh out the other characters. After all, if there's one thing HBO Aries are known for, it's extensive decompression and slow pacing (not that that's necessarily a bad thing).