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Damon/Caroline: Are You Gonna kill Me?


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#1

Royal Victorian

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Posted Nov 6, 2010 @ 11:57 PM

After the latest episode, I thought we should have a thread for our favorite baby vamp and her “proud papa.” ;)

Has all of Caroline’s bad blood (pun intended) toward Damon just disappeared? She’s been awfully comfortable around him compared to the angry way she treated him in the hallway the night she turned, even compared to the way she treated him as a human once she got the lesbian friendship necklace. At first, I thought that she’d warmed up to him because he didn’t kill Liz and stood up for Caroline when Liz didn’t want anything to do with her. But then, I remembered that Caroline also seemed perfectly fine beforehand while playing Pictionary with him at the Contrivance Cookout. “Puppy in a tutu!” Maybe she was willing to put up with him because she thought she had to obey Katherine? But again, she also hugged Damon and wanted him to comfort her after she accidentally killed Carter the Carnie. And again, lol, she was obviously mad at him when he approached her at the picnic in “Kill or be Killed.” So I guess, Caroline’s feelings are just all over the place right now.

Anyway, they’ve been getting along fairly well for the last couple of episodes, so I was a bit surprised in “Rose” when, after she’d been giving him information that he needed, Damon still chose to grab her by the shirt and intimidate her into keeping her mouth shut. Did he really have to grab her? I know that he likes to be intimidating, but it seemed excessive in that context since she wasn’t even resisting him. Up to this point, Caroline has been more than cooperative and useful—something that Damon told her she wasn’t, even though she’d already helped him several times by then. Her reaction to him grabbing her, though, was even more surprising. Awesome, queen of my heart, BabyVampCaroline--who is now regularly kicking butt and taking names, and who, just last episode, stood up to Katherine, the scariest villain of all time—doesn’t even call him out for this! She doesn’t pull away, and she doesn’t even tell him to let her go. She just nods submissively, looks down, and says, “I understand.” ??? When Tyler puts his arm on her in the school parking lot, she twists it for him. So what’s the deal? Is it possible that Caroline is still looking for Damon’s acknowledgement and approval like she did as a human?

Actually, that whole conversation reminded me a lot of the ones they used to have while they were dating. Caroline: chat, chat, chat. Damon: question. Caroline: wrong answer. Damon: compel (or, in this case, intimidate) Caroline: right answer. Caroline was even getting dressed while they talked, which immediately reminded me of that bedroom scene in “Family Ties.”

I think it was foolish of Damon to take the intimidation route with Caroline this time. And I think it’s going to come back to bite him (pun intended again, hee hee), if it hasn’t begun to already. Caroline didn’t look afraid or angry when he grabbed her. To me, she looked shocked and then she looked hurt and even disappointed. This was obviously not behavior that she expected from him. So I wonder if Caroline—now that she has compelled and kind of let go of her mother—is looking for a sense of family. The way that she was describing her new life to Liz in the dungeon showed me that she really enjoys being part of the NSDR. I wonder if that is what she thinks the rest of her existence will be. Maybe she expects to spend forever running around with the Salvatores, beating up baddies and saving lives. If that's true and if Caroline is hoping to be treated like family, then Damon has messed up yet again. He needs to open his eyes and give Caroline the acknowledgment she so deserves. It’s pretty clear that Tyler’s looking for a sense of family, too, so if the brothers aren’t careful, they might accidentally throw Caroline to the wolves (hee hee hee, okay, I’ll stop now).

Ever since Caroline became a vampire, I’ve wondered what her relationship would be like with the Salvatores—particularly Damon, since they have such a sordid history. So I’m really interested in seeing where the writers take this.

#2

ashes ashes

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Posted Nov 7, 2010 @ 1:20 AM

I thought it was pretty touching the way Damon handed Caroline a glass of blood after her run-in with Katherine (the first shot of Masquerade). He was sympathetic, and he had no ulterior motive since she had obviously already told him exactly what happened - I though it was a sweet moment.

But I was annoyed when he singled her out as possibly getting cold feet (though she did make it clear that she was terrified of Katherine), but most especially when he was so aggressive with her at the beginning of Rose. It seems like he doesn't appreciate her worth yet, even though she saved his life in Kill or Be Killed and pulled off her role in fooling Katherine perfectly. I'm hoping his behavior was more of a foreshadowing of trouble to come between Tyler and the group than it was indicative of Damon's feelings towards Caroline. Of course, Caroline describing Tyler's eyes as "bronze with specks of gold" (or something like that) gave Damon good reason to believe that she was not entirely reliable (and she sort of wasn't, though we all sympathize, of course). She knew all of the reasons why she had to keep everything secret, so I guess Damon felt that intimidation was all he had left in order to get to her to comply completely.

For me, Damon has always been at his coldest and cruelest with Caroline. (Royal Victorian, I love that you picked “Are you gonna kill me?” for the thread title, because that moment between them chills me to the bone every time). The funny thing is, he should have a special affection for her because she liked Stefan first, but then seemed perfectly happy with him, unlike most of the women in Damon’s life. I think that Damon saw himself in Caroline (in her insecurities, in the way that in her life it was “always Elena” the way it was “always Stefan” in his life, not to mention the parent parallels). And I don’t think he liked the reflection, and so he has always despised Caroline. I think he’s still dealing with that.

But I think it’s clear that ever since Kill or Be Killed, he’s softening, even if there was a bit of a step backwards with the whole intimidation thing, and he’ll be none too pleased to learn what Caroline has told Tyler. I just hope Caroline confides in Damon, talks it out with him. What they need is Tyler on their side, and at this point they’re gonna need Caroline’s help with that.

I feel like Caroline has forgiven Damon. The way she called him Dr. Damon had zero animosity to it. I don’t think she likes him very much, but it doesn’t seem like she’s really holding him accountable for what he did to her. She wasn’t even outraged when she confronted and pushed him in Brave New World, it was more like she just wanted him to know that she remembered and she wanted to see the look on his face.

[snip]

I think the relationship between Damon and Caroline is one of the most complex on the show, so I can’t wait to see it explored more. I shipped them pretty hard at one point early in the first season, before I really realized how central the Damon/Elena/Stefan triangle was and hopped aboard the Damon/Elena choo-choo – I really wanted him to come around and see Caroline’s beauty and heart and be ashamed of his abusive behavior. I thought there was hope when she ended up sorta rescuing him when Stefan locked him up, but it just went down hill from there. Now I like the idea of Caroline as a little sister for him. I was sad to see her back at Casa Forbes, because I so loved her living at Castle Salvatore.

Sorry about the novel =)

Edited by TWoP Barnes, Nov 8, 2010 @ 1:06 PM.
cross posting.


#3

minneapple

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Posted Nov 7, 2010 @ 2:54 AM

I don't think Caroline has forgiven Damon, and I'm not sure she should. What he did to her was completely fucked-up and wrong. Damon telling Stefan that drinking Elena's blood is "creepy"? Yeah, Damon? Then what do you call sleeping with Caroline, using her as a feeding toy and compelling her to forget? Not to mention playing on her insecurities, calling her useless and stupid. That's beyond creepy, and Damon deserves some serious payback for abusing her like that.

I was a bit surprised in “Rose” when, after she’d been giving him information that he needed, Damon still chose to grab her by the shirt and intimidate her into keeping her mouth shut. Did he really have to grab her?


I wasn't surprised at all. That's how Damon rolls. Anything that inconveniences him, he's going to threaten or try to kill.

I just hope Caroline confides in Damon, talks it out with him. What they need is Tyler on their side, and at this point they’re gonna need Caroline’s help with that.


Bringing Tyler into the breach is only going to create more tension. 'Cause sooner or later Tyler's gonna find out about what happened to Mason, and that won't be a pretty sight at all. That's not a spoiler, just speculation.

Edited by minneapple, Nov 7, 2010 @ 2:55 AM.


#4

mick214

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Posted Nov 7, 2010 @ 3:36 PM

I think it was foolish of Damon to take the intimidation route with Caroline this time


But I think it’s clear that ever since Kill or Be Killed, he’s softening, even if there was a bit of a step backwards with the whole intimidation thing, and he’ll be none too pleased to learn what Caroline has told Tyler


I kind of took it as Damon recognizing that Caroline, being Caroline, was likely to talk herself straight into a confession if she continued questioning Tyler, so he needed to make a point. Yes, Damon was trying to intimidate her, but I got the impression that it was definitely for her own good (ie. "trying to shake some sense in her" so to speak) so she didn't get them all into trouble with her inability to. just. stop. talking. I also think Caroline looked at it as being properly chastised, not really being threatened (at least after the initial shock). Unfortunately, she just couldn't help herself anyway...but she did sort of try.

I don't think Caroline has forgiven Damon, and I'm not sure she should. What he did to her was completely fucked-up and wrong. Damon telling Stefan that drinking Elena's blood is "creepy"? Yeah, Damon? Then what do you call sleeping with Caroline, using her as a feeding toy and compelling her to forget? Not to mention playing on her insecurities, calling her useless and stupid. That's beyond creepy, and Damon deserves some serious payback for abusing her like that.


I think Caroline has moved past it (not necessarily forgiven it), because she now understands the mentality of being a vampire...the desire to feed and/or kill and the temptation to view humans as food and amusement. At the time Caroline was nothing more than a victim to Damon, she was food and a good time (and a connection to Stefan/Elena), but he didn't just feed and then kill her either.

Elena is not food to Stefan, she is his girlfriend... someone he loves. Using her as an antidote for his human blood addiction or as a "feed toy" might be considered a little more creepy that just feeding from your average victim (plus he knew the statement would mess with Stefan's head).

#5

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Posted Nov 7, 2010 @ 3:42 PM

...Has all of Caroline’s bad blood (pun intended) toward Damon just disappeared? She’s been awfully comfortable around him compared to the angry way she treated him in the hallway the night she turned...

In my opinion, Caroline is just grateful that Damon didn't kill her human mother and actually got rid of Mason & Katherine, even if he didn't exactly did it for her.

I think that, much like when it comes to actual fathers, even a bad maker is better than no maker at all for one Caroline Forbes.

Edited by RetconB, Nov 7, 2010 @ 3:45 PM.


#6

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Posted Nov 7, 2010 @ 4:04 PM

That's how Damon rolls. Anything that inconveniences him, he's going to threaten or try to kill.

Yeah, bless his heart, his people skills are not all that good. It's been a long time since he's had to try to persuade people to do what he wants without the benefit of compulsion (and it's not like he had a good role model for parenting in his own father). I think Caroline has probably recognized that by now. I like that she just sort of works around him with a bubbly smile and a shrug. I think she's started to figure him out a little, and she probably does still feel like she's safer under his and Stefan's wings than out on her own. For all that she is bubbly and flighty on the surface, she's actually pretty practical underneath. I think she's going to be able to talk her way out of trouble with Damon over Tyler. Damon's pretty much accepted her as one of his own and if she can just keep fast talking through his initial anger, he'll eventually hear her out. He'll be all growly and grumbly and shouty with her, but I think she'll be able to talk him out of killing Tyler.

#7

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Posted Nov 7, 2010 @ 5:38 PM

...

Edited by splum, Dec 2, 2012 @ 3:26 PM.


#8

efh

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Posted Nov 7, 2010 @ 5:55 PM

Damon telling Stefan that drinking Elena's blood is "creepy"? Yeah, Damon? Then what do you call sleeping with Caroline, using her as a feeding toy and compelling her to forget? Not to mention playing on her insecurities, calling her useless and stupid. That's beyond creepy, and Damon deserves some serious payback for abusing her like that.

I think the difference from Damon's perspective is that Stefan is drinking the blood of someone he loves who loves him back. When Damon was "dating" Caroline, he didn't care about her at all, he was using her as a tool and for food, she was not important to him beyond the access she had to Elena. I think Damon sees a difference between feeding on people who mean nothing to you and feeding on people for whom you care deeply. He doesn't view feeding on someone as an act of love or a romantic thing. (Also, technically, he didn't say it was creepy, he only implied it.) I'm not trying to excuse what he did to Caroline in any way, just to point out that from Damon's point of view, there probably is a difference.

#9

Royal Victorian

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Posted Nov 7, 2010 @ 8:07 PM

The funny thing is, he should have a special affection for her because she liked Stefan first, but then seemed perfectly happy with him, unlike most of the women in Damon’s life. I think that Damon saw himself in Caroline (in her insecurities, in the way that in her life it was “always Elena” the way it was “always Stefan” in his life, not to mention the parent parallels). And I don’t think he liked the reflection, and so he has always despised Caroline. I think he’s still dealing with that.

I'd never thought about how Caroline went from liking Stefan to liking Damon, but you're right. She did what Damon's always wanted someone to do, but he probably couldn't even get excited about it because she was so similar to himself, especially his desperate side--and Damon hates himself.

Of course, IMO, Damon should definitely feel guilty for how he repeatedly manipulated/insulted/used Caroline when she was human ... but I just don't see that from Damon at all. I'd love to see it at some point, though, and I think the more he interacts with her as a vampire, the more likely it is that he will start to feel guilty, and express that.

I agree. I think that the more time Damon spends with Caroline, the more he will see her better qualities, the more he will appreciate her, and the more he will realize how wrong he was. Before Caroline mentioned asking Tyler about the werewolf bite, it seemed to me like Damon was a bit impressed with how she'd handled the Slutty Sarah situation.

I know they're controversial because of their history, but Damon and Caroline have always been my fall-back ship. I think that if Damon ever made things right with Caroline, they could be a viable couple. They have a lot in common, good and bad traits--curiosity, vanity, insecurity, obsessiveness, jealousy, control-freak issues, general fabulousness, neediness, vivacity, single-mindedness, etc. Plus they have this light and dark contrast that has always made their scenes really interesting to me.

#10

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Posted Nov 7, 2010 @ 10:12 PM

I know they're controversial because of their history, but Damon and Caroline have always been my fall-back ship. I think that if Damon ever made things right with Caroline, they could be a viable couple. They have a lot in common, good and bad traits--curiosity, vanity, insecurity, obsessiveness, jealousy, control-freak issues, general fabulousness, neediness, vivacity, single-mindedness, etc. Plus they have this light and dark contrast that has always made their scenes really interesting to me.


I don't think it's a popular opinion, but I'm so with you on that. Also, I think Caroline and Damon could have some really deep, poignant conversations. They're alike in so many ways that I don't think they realize. There's potential for so much there with them, in my opinion, just friendship wise, if you're not even thinking romance wise. They both have so many of the same insecurities and I feel that there could be so many scenes with them realizing that. Also, I really want to see them truly address what he did to her last year.

#11

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Posted Nov 7, 2010 @ 10:39 PM

I definetly think that it will be addressed at some point which is a relief since I felt like they were tryig to brush it under the carpet last year like it wasn't sucha big deal. Thankfully Caroline calling him out on all he did the episode that she turned assured me that they were paving the way to address it at some point.

I think Damon's main problem is that he has never respected humans. Immortality and bitterness combined ensured that he lost his respect. Asides from Elena, he has treated almost all the humans on the show with the same contempt until recently. He's only getting to know Caroline now that she's changed and he's seeing a different side to her. Before he only saw the side that he recognised in himself and at that time it was probably Caroline at her worst but now he's starting to see her stronger traits and will hopefully begin to respect her more and then we'll get an apology.

I think whatever approach she takes to the Tyler/werewolf situation will define their relationship. He needs to know that she can be trusted before he fully commits any loyalty to her.

#12

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Posted Nov 8, 2010 @ 12:58 AM

I definetly think that it will be addressed at some point which is a relief since I felt like they were tryig to brush it under the carpet last year like it wasn't sucha big deal. Thankfully Caroline calling him out on all he did the episode that she turned assured me that they were paving the way to address it at some point.


I'm glad it was brought up when Caroline remembered what she had been compelled to forget. But unless Damon and Caroline become a romantic couple, I don't see it being brought up again, except possibly a line in passing. Caroline's "don't worry about it" to Damon in Kill Or Be Killed seemed a little resonant of her bitterness towards him, but I think it had more to do with her being annoyed that Damon was taking her mother's side.

Caroline/Damon is definitely fall back ship of mine, after Damon/Elena and Stefan/Caroline. That might not seem like a high priority, but on a show like this (where everyone has chemistry with everyone else and I could practically ship almost every possible pairing), it is.

#13

minneapple

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Posted Nov 8, 2010 @ 1:02 AM

Caroline's "don't worry about it" to Damon in Kill Or Be Killed seemed a little resonant of her bitterness towards him, but I think it had more to do with her being annoyed that Damon was taking her mother's side.


To me, it seemed like she wanted him to stay out of her business.

I think the difference from Damon's perspective is that Stefan is drinking the blood of someone he loves who loves him back.


That says a lot about Damon, then, that using someone to feed and compelling them to forget is not creepy, while Elena giving Stefan blood voluntarily is creepy. Besides, wasn't Katherine feeding from Damon? I don't remember, but she was definitely feeding from Stefan. If Katherine was feeding from Damon, which can reasonably be assumed, I wonder if that would be creepy to Damon as well.

Edited by minneapple, Nov 8, 2010 @ 1:04 AM.


#14

mick214

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Posted Nov 8, 2010 @ 8:01 AM

That says a lot about Damon, then, that using someone to feed and compelling them to forget is not creepy, while Elena giving Stefan blood voluntarily is creepy


I know that I stated in my earlier post a theory that drinking blood from someone you love/who loves you may be creepier than just a random victim (and maybe Damon really does feel that way? who knows). Actually my thought process here is partly due to the statement Caroline made to her mom that the desire is alway there to kill as well as feed from a victim. I would think that the temptation to kill/shred the girl you love would be a bit disturbing. Damon's next words sort of confirm this since they were about how Stefan used to just live for blood and shredding his victims. But honesty, I think that line was primarily because Damon was suprised and a little jealous and he didn't have his normal snarky comeback, so he was left voicing what he would have thought was Stefan's opinion of the act (and he was hoping to make Stefan feel uncomfortable).

I think Caroline/Damon have the potential to be my fall back ship, but I'm not totally convinced. Caroline has gotten so much stronger and I just love her for it, but I'm afraid that the two of them together could just bring out all of their old insecurities, and that worries me a little. I find myself generally liking couples that are somewhat opposites of each other, they tend to spark more for me and balance each other out (like Caroline/Stefan and Elena/Damon). But I do find myself loving the older brother/younger slightly annoying sister vibe from them. And before they go anywhere else I think there needs to be a heartfelt apology (and a thank-you for her help) from Damon. Caroline has actually proven herself to be quite the asset to the brother's Salvatore, and I love that her connection to Tyler is going to drive Damom crazy but probably be essential in fighting the Originals (then he'll owe her and even bigger thank-you).

#15

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Posted Nov 8, 2010 @ 9:42 AM

Anyway, they’ve been getting along fairly well for the last couple of episodes, so I was a bit surprised in “Rose” when, after she’d been giving him information that he needed, Damon still chose to grab her by the shirt and intimidate her into keeping her mouth shut. Did he really have to grab her? I know that he likes to be intimidating, but it seemed excessive in that context since she wasn’t even resisting him.

Damon was warning Caroline about Tyler. One bite from Tyler could kill any of them (Damon, Stefan, Caroline). Damon wanted to get his point across so he does it in his usual way – scare and intimidate. However, afterwards Damon rubbed Caroline’s shoulder, opened the door for her, and sent her off to school.

Damon did the same thing with Liz. Caroline told Liz if Liz didn’t agree to keep their secret, Damon would kill her, and Stefan and Elena pretty much agreed. Then Damon backed Liz up against the wall, told her he wouldn’t kill her because she was his friend, and then held her prisoner until the vervain was out of her system, and she could be compelled.

#16

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Posted Nov 8, 2010 @ 10:09 AM

I think of all the horrible things Damon has done through out the course of the show, his abuse of Caroline was the worst. And I never expect the writers to explore the full extent of it because I very much doubt they want to call attention to the fact that Damon is a rapist. But I was glad to see the abuse in part brought up in Caroline's little confrontation with Damon, but I'd definitely like to see it brought up some more. His treatment of her is also why I've always hated his pseudo-friendship with Liz, forget the vampire thing, she'd stake his ass on the spot for what he did to her little girl. And I never would want to see Caroline forgive Damon, nor would I buy it. The Caroline who needed everybody to love her forgiving him, maybe, but she is coming into her own now and starting to deal with her insecurities. I'm fine with how they are right now, sorta allies but never really friends. She is quite clearly still terrified of him given her reaction to him ganging up on her about Tyler and I think Damon will warm up to her over time but still always find her too annoying to deal with for very long.

#17

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Posted Nov 8, 2010 @ 11:15 AM

I think of all the horrible things Damon has done through out the course of the show, his abuse of Caroline was the worst.


Yup. There are a lot of reasons, but it's the primary reason I could never ship Damon/Elena. Because what would it say about Elena, that she could be with someone who abused her friend like that?

#18

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Posted Nov 8, 2010 @ 11:18 AM

...

Edited by splum, Dec 2, 2012 @ 3:27 PM.


#19

Royal Victorian

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Posted Nov 8, 2010 @ 1:30 PM

So, actually, I guess I'm happy that he intimidated her in "Rose," because it shows that the writers are aware that these two characters still have some pretty serious issues with each other and that everything's not okay just b/c Caroline's a vampire and she confronted him (briefly) in "The Return."


With Damon being one of the three protagonists and Caroline growing in importance with each episode, I feel like, for the sake of both characters, the writers can't afford to ignore their relationship, and I don't think they are. It's interesting that, in an episode all about the elephants in the room, (Stefan's guilt for turning Damon, Damon loving Elena, Bonnie's magic making her sick, Caroline knowing Tyler's secret, etc.) we get an early scene in which Caroline and Damon are interacting alone with the ghost of their past lingering all around them. They were in her bedroom of all places! I think the audience was supposed to be thinking about what happened between them last season, and I hope that this is an indication that some kind of confrontation is coming for them.

It was a nice touch, I think, that Damon, who's always up in people's business, stayed in the doorway to Caroline's room the whole time, which, IMO, connects to the way that Damon later sat on Elena's window seat instead of on her bed--perhaps a sign of guilt? It suggests to me that he remembers what he's done in those bedrooms and that it makes him uncomfortable. Hmm, now when I think about all the ways "Rose" revisits old events--both in mythology and in storytelling--I think a better title for the episode might have been, "History Repeating Again." Lol.

#20

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Posted Nov 10, 2010 @ 2:15 AM

Damon was warning Caroline about Tyler. One bite from Tyler could kill any of them (Damon, Stefan, Caroline). Damon wanted to get his point across so he does it in his usual way – scare and intimidate.

I'm hoping that when Damon eventually finds out that Caroline did talk to Tyler, and worse, told him about vampires, that he also finds out that she left both him and Stefan out of the equation. I think it's quite admirable that once she knew she'd not be able to avoid Tyler altogether, she still followed Damon's advice, at least partially. I think Damon's intimidating her in the beginning was because he was worried for ALL of them, but I hope we get to see how Damon would react if Caroline got into trouble with Tyler. It would be a nice growth from "Brave New World" if Damon actually felt concerned for her safety and took the pains to help her out.

His treatment of her is also why I've always hated his pseudo-friendship with Liz, forget the vampire thing, she'd stake his ass on the spot for what he did to her little girl.

This actually makes me wonder... does Liz even know what went on between Damon and Caroline? Except for that one conversation in "Family Ties", where Liz asks Caroline about the guy she brought as her date and calls him "a little too old" for her, they've never really talked about Damon. Considering how little Caroline shares with her mother, I doubt Liz even knew her daughter was sleeping with Damon, let alone be privy to all the horrible things he did to her. Also, the way she reacted in the hospital when Caroline was in grave danger makes me think she really doesn't know about everything that went down. Not even the worst parent would seek comfort in their daughter's abuser, especially when the situation concerns the daughter herself.

#21

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Posted Nov 10, 2010 @ 3:07 AM

does Liz even know what went on between Damon and Caroline?


I doubt it. I doubt Caroline talks about boys with her mom--she's shot Liz down the few times Liz has tried to bring up anything about romance. Also, Damon spoke very freely to Caroline while he was compelling her, and I find it hard to believe he's let her repeat anything important. It's one thing for the other girls to know he's seeing her--he WANTED that, because he wanted to feel like the Big Man on Campus. But Caroline was pretty secretive and Damon seemed confident that she'd keep his secrets from her friends...so I doubt she was mentally free to talk about any of the abuses Damon visited on her, and maybe much about their relationship at all.

I think of all the horrible things Damon has done through out the course of the show, his abuse of Caroline was the worst.


I completely agree. And I'm never going to want to see a woman pursue Damon or to see him as the dominant member of any relationship, just because of that. His attitude toward love/power is both fascinating and scary, and I like seeing it explored. However, it's one thing to watch a horrible person who's cruel and physically strong get laid low by emotional manipulation and imbalanced love affairs, but it's another to watch that horrible person take an insecure, naive teenage girl and basically rape her into submission. Sorry, but that's actually too much for me to handle.

I feel like we've been given enough insight into Damon as a character and what his particular expectations of relationship give-and-take are, to intellectually get why he treated Caroline like that...and I also think that now that she's a vampire and dealing with the urge to kill and a super powerful, strong body it's not as horrifying to see them together. I don't see how she could possibly forgive him, but now that she's a vampire, she's pretty much safe from him--she's strong enough, and nobody can compel her, and she's got more insight into how he thinks. So maybe their dynamic can be explored a little more now without freaking out everyone (meaning me, lol)?

Out of all the characters, I think the biggest mess has been Elena when it comes to the Damon/Caroline issue. Caroline just tried to frame it as something that was awful but that she's dealt well with, Damon likes to pretend it was no big deal, Stefan's completely jaded to Damon's behavior, and Bonnie, in her own way, is, too--so all their reactions make some sense. But you'd think Elena would be completely torn up over this, wouldn't you? If I were her, I'd be pretty freaked that the only people getting with the guy now declaring undying love for me are 1. my best friend, who he abused and raped 2. my evil doppleganger, who thinks he's lame as hell and who he is still obsessed with. 3. a witch he exploited, then murdered. I'd be like, now that you're super strong and awesome, Caroline, why don't we cut these guys loose and do the supernatural-fighting thing on our own?

But it looks like Caroline's stuck with Damon, since he and Stefan like to play "Kings of the Vampires" and take charge all the time. God, how does she make herself OK with that?

#22

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Posted Nov 10, 2010 @ 7:47 AM

Except for that one conversation in "Family Ties", where Liz asks Caroline about the guy she brought as her date and calls him "a little too old" for her, they've never really talked about Damon.


That's interesting to consider actually because for most of the series Liz has treated Damon as more of a peer of hers. I'm surprised she has never brought up his date with her 16 year old daughter to him, when it surely must have made him look a little sleazy from Liz's perspective when Damn has got to be in his mid 20's at the very least. Liz never knew everything else that went on there obviously, but Damon did compell a reluctant Caroline to publically date him where her mother would see them together

#23

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Posted Nov 10, 2010 @ 1:01 PM

...

Edited by splum, Dec 2, 2012 @ 3:28 PM.


#24

Royal Victorian

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Posted Nov 10, 2010 @ 7:27 PM

That's interesting to consider actually because for most of the series Liz has treated Damon as more of a peer of hers. I'm surprised she has never brought up his date with her 16 year old daughter to him, when it surely must have made him look a little sleazy from Liz's perspective when Damn has got to be in his mid 20's at the very least. Liz never knew everything else that went on there obviously, but Damon did compell a reluctant Caroline to publically date him where her mother would see them together.


Damon's age is one of those sketchy things that I don't think the show will ever be able to address directly because 1.) L.J. Smith never stated it IIRC and 2.) Ian Somerhalder was cast in the part. It's clear, however, in the books that Damon was the age of a university student when he died, and he continues to pass for one as a vampire. The show, I think, is staying in line with this since Bree says she met Damon in college and there are repeated references to Damon and sorority girls. Also, Elena and Bonnie were perfectly fine with Damon and Caroline's relationship until they realized that he was freaking Damon Salvatore. Liz called him "a little too old" and let it go very quickly, which is something I don't think she would've done, as a sherriff or a mother, if the age difference was truly inappropriate. I think the audience is supposed to believe--or pretend, rather, cause there's just no believing it--that Damon is in his early twenties--think Ben McKittrick. So there was no reason for Damon not to date Caroline publicly. I think Caroline's reluctance was more about Damon being a bad boy and Caroline's horrible relationship with her mom. At the ball, Caroline says something to her mom about knowing she wouldn't approve of him regardless of his age.

It's IMO a casting issue (though I don't believe anyone could've been Damon better than Ian) that is made exponentially more difficult because Damon is repeatedly thrown into storylines that deal almost exclusively with either obviously middle-aged or other ambiguously-aged young adults. If Damon is 21-23, I think it's plausible that Liz, who shows symptoms of crap guardian skills, wouldn't confront him about dating her daughter. It's also still plausible that Liz would consider Damon a peer since, in her contact with him, he has always been an adult in mature adult situations. She hasn't seen him dancing with teenage girls or playing video games with teenage boys.

But Caroline was pretty secretive and Damon seemed confident that she'd keep his secrets from her friends...so I doubt she was mentally free to talk about any of the abuses Damon visited on her, and maybe much about their relationship at all.


I agree with this. I get the feeling that the only people who know exactly how Damon abused Caroline are Damon and Caroline. Elena and Stefan know that Damon compelled her, drank her blood, and tried to kill her, but Damon's pretty much done some of that to the entire town. I seriously doubt that they know what happened between Damon and Caroline in Caroline's bedroom, that Damon used Caroline's genuine feelings for him to emotionally abuse and manipulate her, or that he continued to use her as a tool long after they stopped dating. Caroline herself didn't know the extent of what he'd done until she turned, and I don't think she's shared those revelations with anyone.

#25

splum

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Posted Nov 10, 2010 @ 8:08 PM

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Edited by splum, Dec 2, 2012 @ 3:33 PM.


#26

scarynikki12

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Posted Nov 10, 2010 @ 8:44 PM

I want the situation to eventually improve (or at least come to a head in some way) with him and Caroline, but I also would like at least one other person to become aware of what happened between them.


This is where Tyler could prove important. Not only will he and Caroline get to "grow up" together (as supes), but he may be the one she confides in about what Damon did to her. That would make for an interesting vampire vs werewolf circumstance, and it means that someone will hold Damon accountable for the way he treated her since Stefan and Elena are unlikely to do so (due to them not having all the information).

#27

Royal Victorian

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Posted Nov 10, 2010 @ 10:14 PM

I want the situation to eventually improve (or at least come to a head in some way) with him and Caroline, but I also would like at least one other person to become aware of what happened between them.



This is where Tyler could prove important. Not only will he and Caroline get to "grow up" together (as supes), but he may be the one she confides in about what Damon did to her. That would make for an interesting vampire vs werewolf circumstance, and it means that someone will hold Damon accountable for the way he treated her since Stefan and Elena are unlikely to do so (due to them not having all the information).


The writers could very well be setting this up, but personally I hope that's not what happens. On the one hand, I want Caroline to have someone in her corner, but, on the other, Damon apologizing to Caroline because he realizes that he needs to make amends would be much more satisfying to me. IMO it's because he isn't being held accountable for what he did to her that an apology from him would be particularly meaningful. No one's holding a stake to his heart. No one would be impressed with him. No one would even know about it. He has nothing to gain from it except an understanding with Caroline, which may or may not even matter to him right now. It would be an opportunity for him to do the right thing simply because it's the right thing, and I think that it would also mean more to Caroline that way. It would be completely sincere.

I definitely want the show to address this more, but I want it to become a big deal for Damon and Caroline, not for the NSDR.

#28

splum

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Posted Nov 10, 2010 @ 11:17 PM

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Edited by splum, Dec 2, 2012 @ 3:34 PM.


#29

confuzzled21

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Posted Nov 11, 2010 @ 1:54 AM

I often wonder how Caroline would react if/when Damon and Elena ever get together. If they are just going to brush his abuse of her under the rug and do not allow Caroline and Damon to hash it out, is it to make it seem like it's been forgotten so Caroline won't have anything to say if Elena decides to be with Damon? Granted, this could be seasons from now and who knows where Caroline might be at that point. I just wonder at times if Caroline would eventually confide in Elena about what truly went down between her and Damon. If that's the case, will that be something that may cause Elena to pause and think about things?

It could be something she can easily hand wave because it was the "old" Damon. At the same time, the person he did it to is one of her best friends.

#30

Finnaire

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Posted Nov 11, 2010 @ 5:03 AM

Shortly after Caroline turnred she was marveling at the brilliance of compulsion. So althouh Damon may have used and abused her as a human I think her vampire self understands she lives in a world with shifted morality. I mean, she killed a man to feed, mourned him briefly and moved on to kill two more shortly thereafter. I just don't think she's carrying a grudge against Damon at this point.

Edited by Finnaire, Nov 11, 2010 @ 5:05 AM.