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#16378860

TWoP Howard

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Posted Mar 12, 2014 @ 12:15 AM

This thread is for the discussion of Downton Abbey as it airs in the UK.  If you want to discuss the show on the US timetable and without the risk of seeing untagged spoilers, please head to the Downton Abbey expanded forum

 

There seems to be some confusion about what constitutes a spoiler in here. Any major media article or interview about the show in Britain is not a spoiler by TWoP rules. Neither are sneak peeks, promos, episode synopses, or press releases. Casting news is not a spoiler. Spoilers are leaked plot details, and not given out in interviews. You can find our spoiler rules in the Spoiler section of the FAQ. PM me if you have questions beyond that.

 

Finally, if you want to discuss Mary and Pamuk, you have missed your chance. Don't bring it up at all, please. Sorry you missed out, but the reasons are here. Thanks.



#5551

Scoutlet

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Posted Feb 29, 2012 @ 7:07 AM

Interestingly, aristocratic women often experienced more pressure to produce children than did the working class. They had to produce heirs and marriage fodder. For this reason, they used wet nurses so they could stop breastfeeding and get pregnant again faster. The practice didn't fall entirely out of favor until WWII.

Could you PM me the pic HoneyBee?

Edited by Scoutlet, Feb 29, 2012 @ 7:09 AM.

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#5552

bijoux83

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Posted Feb 29, 2012 @ 7:09 AM

HoneyBee, where did you see that pic? Brendan Coyle has stated that Bates would be starting the season in prison. It doesn't mean he'll stay there for long. Although realistically, seeing the season won't cover that much time, it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility for the appeals process to take the whole 8 (?) episodes.
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#5553

HoneyBee

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Posted Feb 29, 2012 @ 7:17 AM

Oh, jeez. I saw it on tumblr, and then I look around again and it's gone. I'll look again, and hopefully will find it. I hope they didn't take it down. I was hoping anyone in this board would tell me something.
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#5554

ScienceGirl12

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Posted Feb 29, 2012 @ 9:36 AM

Even if she thrives, that doesn't mean it will be easy for her. She'll need to adjust before thriving. Of course, I really don't see how her new life is all that freeing since she could have done whatever she wanted at Downton and continued nursing or helping people if she really wanted to.


I certainly hope it isn't/hasn't been easy for her and that we see/hear some of the adjustment struggles. One of the reasons I'm not huge on Sybil and Branson (individually or together) is because the show hasn't shown us that any of their decisions have been hard or that they've suffered/struggled with the consequences of decisions. I mean, in a for serious way. And for all Downton's faults, it DID demonstrate this for other characters. For example, Sybil goes off to be a nurse (and nobody really gives her a hard time for it) and she has one brief dialogue with Branson where she says she's witnessed a lot of suffering, but the work is worth it and poof - that's it. Nursing is very valuable, but surely it is emotionally exhausting at times and it would have been nice to see Sybil actually struggle with seeing so much carnage or have a longer arc where she got invested in the health and recovery of a particular soldier (not in a romantic way). One thing that bothered me about her character was how sad she seemed that the war was over ("I miss the hustle and bustle" or something to that effect is what she said to Branson). Seems like a callous line for a woman who was noting how many of her dance partners were dead in episode 1 and saw Matthew suffer from paralysis. I'd have loved for her to get called out on that...As another example of lack of significant struggling, at the end of the season, they get some pushback from Lord Grantham regarding their marriage, but ultimately secure his blessing and Sybil still gets some money (which she's obviously happy about, judging by that final church scene). Mary and Edith are allowed to go to the wedding. Doesn't seem too bad to me. If I'm to get on board with Sybil/Branson next season, I'd actually like to see them struggle. Stilted, repetitive conversations in a garage didn't do it for me. And like I've said before, I *want* to like these two characters and would have loved for a legitimate conscientious objector storyline.

I wonder if one of the reasons Sybil/Branson's characterization was a fail for me was also because they have very limited interactions with anybody besides each other on screen. Mary and Matthew (for example) do have meaty scenes with other characters (Anna, Carson, Granny, Robert, Sir Richard, Isobel). They don't exist in a vacuum. Sybil and Branson seem to have spent the war working all day and then having once per episode garage dress rehearsal scenes for ultimately deciding to leave together. In my mind, it really would have helped to have had Sybil talk more with her sisters (I thought Mary spotting her and Branson together and telling her not to do anything stupid was a good scene - more of that would have been helpful) or hell, more with Isobel, who told her to go off and learn to nurse and then barely interacted with her. Similarly, while I get that Branson was geographically isolated pre-soup incident and certainly would have been ostracized post-soup incident, it would have been nice to hear more about his journalism skills (I don't think reading the newspaper counts as knowing how to write articles...) via conversations with some of the other servants.

For season 3, I'd like to see the following for Sybil/Branson (assuming the actors are up for it) but I don't hold out hope:
-some jealousy on Sybil's behalf that Mary/Matthew's wedding is getting so much positive attention...it's time for Sybil to show some realistic human failings and I think it would be very understandable that she would be happy, but jealous

-some marital tension, perhaps because Sybil wants to continue to nurse post-baby and Branson isn't keen on that. It'd also be interesting to hear what kind of reception she got from Branson's family given that his mother was evidently against the marriage...

-some real political discussions between Branson and [insert some other character, not Sybil]. Ireland vs. England, etc...Sorry, but in response to whoever said upthread that they did their best they could to show Branson's commitment to being anti-war, no I don't think they did. I think there is potential for some juicy political conversations in season 3..

-the reveal of Sybil/Branson's marriage along with the Pamuk affair and Bates trial and the Crawleys trying (but struggling) to find ways to stay strong and together in the face of so much bad press (presumably London society will mock them for allowing their youngest daughter to marry an Irish chaffeur)
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#5555

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Posted Feb 29, 2012 @ 12:12 PM

Thanks for saying all that so I wouldn't have to! I agree. I also think there's a good chance Branson's family will not accept Sybil. That was foreshadowed a couple of times, and when she asked him that same question he was tongue-tied (for once, lol). I'd like to see how she reacts to Mary's marriage. I don't think she'll be jealous of the actual wedding but she might be hurt at how happy her father will be. He thinks of Matthew as his son but when it comes to her husband he's resentful and embarrassed, grandchild notwithstanding.
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#5556

Princess Aldrea

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Posted Feb 29, 2012 @ 1:07 PM

Interestingly, aristocratic women often experienced more pressure to produce children than did the working class. They had to produce heirs and marriage fodder. For this reason, they used wet nurses so they could stop breastfeeding and get pregnant again faster. The practice didn't fall entirely out of favor until WWII.

Why, though? I mean, there's at least - at least - ten years a woman would have to be able to have children. Does a couple months off because of nursing really make that much of a difference? And how many children do they really need to have?

One thing that bothered me about her character was how sad she seemed that the war was over ("I miss the hustle and bustle" or something to that effect is what she said to Branson).

I don't think she was missing the war, exactly, as much as the feeling of being useful. During the war she mattered and afterwards she didn't really have anything important to do.

He thinks of Matthew as his son but when it comes to her husband he's resentful and embarrassed, grandchild notwithstanding.

It's not a case of grandchild notwithstanding. He doesn't want a Branson grandchild.
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#5557

Layla17

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Posted Feb 29, 2012 @ 1:16 PM

Alternatively there are many people in that situation for whom the new culture is a release from an outmoded llife and they easily thrive in their new freedom. Sybil is written to be one of those I think.


I thrived too, but as someone else said, there's a period of adjustment too. It wasn't easy to make that cultural shift while also being newly married - and I was far better equipped than Lady Sybil. For one thing, we'd lived together already - Sybil hasn't even had a boyfriend before. For another, I wasn't losing anything materially - in fact I earned more. Sybil will be adjusting to a) a new country b) a very different standard of living c) her first relationship with a man d) being pregnant and e) being far away from her family and friends. It would be just plain silly to show her as happily thriving with all that change - she'd have to be superhuman.

Edited by Layla17, Feb 29, 2012 @ 1:19 PM.

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#5558

Tex17

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Posted Feb 29, 2012 @ 1:33 PM

One of the reasons I'm not huge on Sybil and Branson (individually or together) is because the show hasn't shown us that any of their decisions have been hard or that they've suffered/struggled with the consequences of decisions. I mean, in a for serious way. And for all Downton's faults, it DID demonstrate this for other characters. For example, Sybil goes off to be a nurse (and nobody really gives her a hard time for it) and she has one brief dialogue with Branson where she says she's witnessed a lot of suffering, but the work is worth it and poof - that's it. Nursing is very valuable, but surely it is emotionally exhausting at times and it would have been nice to see Sybil actually struggle with seeing so much carnage or have a longer arc where she got invested in the health and recovery of a particular soldier (not in a romantic way). One thing that bothered me about her character was how sad she seemed that the war was over ("I miss the hustle and bustle" or something to that effect is what she said to Branson). Seems like a callous line for a woman who was noting how many of her dance partners were dead in episode 1 and saw Matthew suffer from paralysis. I'd have loved for her to get called out on that...As another example of lack of significant struggling, at the end of the season, they get some pushback from Lord Grantham regarding their marriage, but ultimately secure his blessing and Sybil still gets some money (which she's obviously happy about, judging by that final church scene). Mary and Edith are allowed to go to the wedding. Doesn't seem too bad to me. If I'm to get on board with Sybil/Branson next season, I'd actually like to see them struggle. Stilted, repetitive conversations in a garage didn't do it for me. And like I've said before, I *want* to like these two characters and would have loved for a legitimate conscientious objector storyline.


Precisely! All of this pretty succinctly sums up my problem with these two as well. I’ve yet to see any sort of real consequence for anything that either Sybil or Branson has ever done. In addition to everything you mentioned above, Branson wound up with little more than a slap on the wrist for the soup fiasco. They don’t even really seem to hold each other responsible for anything. In season one, Branson had every reason to be angry with Sybil when she essentially tricked him into taking her to Ripon, a move that everyone assumed would end up costing him his job, and yet there was nothing. The whole thing just feels incredibly low-stakes, which is disappointing considering that we’re talking about the daughter of an English Earl moving to Ireland with her Irish Catholic husband in 1919.

Contrast that with Mary and Matthew. The stakes for the two of them seem huge. Yes, there’s the Pamuk scandal, but these two people seemed like they would be legitimately miserable for the rest of their lives if they’re not together. Overall I do think the writing for Matthew and Mary is much better than it is for Sybil and Branson, but I think a big part of it might be the acting as well. The two playing M&M just sell that love story in a way that S&B never really have for me, and both couples have had their share of ridiculous scenes to play. Off the top of my head I’m thinking of the singing when Matthew comes back from being missing and that weird moment when Sybil touches Branson’s face in the garage when she’s still trying to make up her mind about him. If I just read them on paper, I would think the first was laughably absurd and the second was rather sweet. As it played out, I felt much more invested in the first than the second, because Michelle Dockery played Mary in such a way that it was obvious that she was in love with this man. The second just seemed so forced because Sybil looked like she wanted to get away, and Branson seemed like an idiot for waiting around for her for so long. Again it’s too bad that consequences never really stuck for them, because the only time I think either of them really shine is when they’re angry or arguing with someone.

I’m also going to need to see some real hardship for these two next season if I’m going to buy their reasoning for staying together. They’re walking into an incredibly fraught time and place, and there’s been little acknowledgement from either of them about that. Shouldn’t Branson seem worried about taking Sybil back to Dublin? How exactly is he going to explain that he took money from an Earl? Sybil has never shown any interest in Ireland, so wouldn’t everyone she meets in Dublin have a legitimate reason to believe that she was at best sympathetic to the English and at worst an outright spy for them? Under the best of circumstances leaving your home and your country and getting married is difficult. Sybil and Branson are walking into a war zone when one of them was very obviously reared but what most people they meet are going to think of as the enemy.

I don't think she was missing the war, exactly, as much as the feeling of being useful. During the war she mattered and afterwards she didn't really have anything important to do.


That’s how I read it too though, not to beat a dead horse here, I do think the actress played that moment (and many others afterwards) very much on the bratty side.

Someone else mentioned earlier that Sybil’s rebellion was awkwardly shoehorned into her love story (Apologies, I can’t seem to find it right now.), and I’d agree with that. Neither one really made sense when they played out together. That makes me sad, because I think both characters could have been so much better if they’d been more fully developed away from each other. I would have loved to have seen Sybil really taking advantage of the new freedoms of the 1920s and joining a political cause of her own, and I will forever be disappointed that they only flirted with Branson’s objections to the war without ever doing the conscientious objector storyline.

Sybil will be adjusting to a) a new country b) a very different standard of living c) her first relationship with a man d) being pregnant and e) being far away from her family and friends. It would be just plain silly to show her as happily thriving with all that change - she'd have to be superhuman.


Very well put!
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#5559

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Posted Feb 29, 2012 @ 1:52 PM

The war didn't really come to Dublin until well into 1920. I hope they show it realistically but they don't have the best track record. In S2 the characters were always popping back to DA from the front.

I do think it would be interesting to see Branson facing suspicion and hostility for marrying a Protestant English aristocrat.

As far as political involvement, I think it would make sense if Sybil's experience of pregnancy and motherhood inspired her to crusade for family planning. The 1920s saw a lot of that.

These characters have had very little screen time. I think MD rocks but she has had a lot more time to display her character in all of is nuances, and the M/M story has always been central. It can be hard to empathize with characters when so much of what motivates them seems to happen off screen.

As far as Branson escaping with so little punishment for his exploits, it's not realistic but it also is not that surprising for the show. Daisy ruined the food on purpose and was forgiven, while Bates looks for all the world like he might have murdered his wife and not only are they not firing him, they're doing all they can to free him.

And yes, it does seem like Robert doesn't want this grandchild. I think it's the most disappointing behavior I've ever seen from him. What happened to S1 Robert who was so concerned about the Third Class passengers on the Titanic, who defended his right to have the kind of bond with a servant that he has with Bates? Is he so threatened by the loss of his world and power that he lashes out at this little threat to it? I don't mean to sound sentimental. But while his feelings might even be understandable, they're not defensible.

Edited by Scoutlet, Feb 29, 2012 @ 2:04 PM.

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#5560

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Posted Feb 29, 2012 @ 2:14 PM

As someone mentioned, Branson and Sybil have mostly only interacted with each other. I think that hurts their storyline. Perhaps because of those limits, the dialogue they've been given doesn't allow them to show much. Mostly it's spouting off about ideas without much followthrough, or Branson telling Sybil how much she wants to run away with him. Notice how much better Branson came across in the episodes where he was face to face with LG and putting his case. He had some dignity there. Sybil is a less than satisfactory character for me because it's all romantic fiction shorthand with her. They should have shown her working if they wanted the nursing subplot to have weight in establishing her character. Other than that, she's been confined to the garage talks. If they don't either expand her screentime or make her more a part of the ensemble, her character will remain a sketch instead of a full-blown person like so many of the others.
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#5561

ujkle

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Posted Feb 29, 2012 @ 4:11 PM

Re: Spoiler pic, do you mean this one?. It's from the Daily Mail, so they may have been just been speculating.

It does look like Thomas is in a valet uniform though.

There's also some casting news for downstairs.

Edited by ujkle, Feb 29, 2012 @ 4:14 PM.

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#5562

CarolinaFiner

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Posted Feb 29, 2012 @ 4:29 PM

I watched the behind the scenes Xtras at the end of the Christmas episode and was SO darned surprised at how different some of the actors look in real life. Mrs. Patmore and Mrs. Hughes blew me clear away to see how young they look out of makeup/costume.

I died all over again looking over Mary's dresses. They are SO beautiful. If Mattel made a deal to make Downton Abbey dolls in those period costumes, I have to say I might just not be able to resist. As it is, I'm sitting on my hands trying not to order William/Kate/PrincessGrace. I don't think I could resist the DA series ...

All in all great series 2 finish, though I missed seeing Sybil and Branson. The actress who plays Sybil is LUMINOUS in real life. Wow.

Weird to me that they never really wound up the "lost heir" Patrick storyline. He just disappeared with no real resolution, and I wonder if he comes back later. Just seemed like a loose end ...
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#5563

angelaudie

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Posted Feb 29, 2012 @ 4:41 PM

For season 3, I'd like to see the following for Sybil/Branson (assuming the actors are up for it) but I don't hold out hope:
-some jealousy on Sybil's behalf that Mary/Matthew's wedding is getting so much positive attention...it's time for Sybil to show some realistic human failings and I think it would be very understandable that she would be happy, but jealous

I would like to see this happen as well. Yes, Sybil would certainly be thrilled for Mary and Matthew but it would be completely understandable if she was a bit jealous or resentful as well. Mary, in all likelihood, is going to have a nice wedding with all her family and friends there. Robert will definitely be thrilled to have Matthew as a son-in-law. Mary's wedding is going to be viewed as a happy occasion. Sybil's wedding and marriage was not viewed as a happy occasion and the only people from her family that attended were Mary and Edith. Plus, Mary being Mary will probably whine and stress out over small details which would piss Sybil off since it gives the impression Mary doesn't know how lucky she is.

I'm also curious to learn about Branson's family's reactions were to Branson bringing home the daughter of an English lord. With the anti-English sentiments running high it wouldn't be shocking if they were less than thrilled even if Sybil has made every effort to be a good wife to Branson. I wonder how they treated Mary and Edith (especially Mary since she can be rather icy).

Daily Mail article:DM mentioned it appeared Martha was leaving DA but that doesn't make much sense to me. Filming pretty much just started and SM only started filming like what last week? I wonder if perhaps Martha isn't staying the main house and instead will stay in a guest house for whatever reason. I can't imagine the show snagging SM and using her for one episode.
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#5564

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Posted Feb 29, 2012 @ 4:52 PM

I'm a bit myopic, but have noticed if I have to squint to bring a character into focus, s/he disappeared shortly after. Couldn't quite get a fix on that gorgeous tall, dark stranger climbing into bed with our Mary and----gone; wasn't quite clear on who William exactly was, he seemed nice enough, definitely tall, now he has a crush on Daisy, but is he good enough for us to root for him to marry her?---oh, no, fell on his sword for Matthew; Matthew has a new girlfriend, no, a fiancee called Lavinia, some odd connections to the Murdochian fellow Mary is "dating", yes, she's sweet and stuck her neck out for her father but what else do we know about her--now she's sick, now well, now --gone; Bates' wife, looks too much like Margaret Hamilton, I won't be fooled this time, yes, she's nasty and swoops in from nowhere just like a witch, even O'Brien doesn't like her--she's gone. So, who is this Branson? We don't seem to know much about him....

I'm having some fun, but I do think Fellowes only spends time developing the characters in full of those who have a future in his stories. Of course I realize he doesn't kill off all the minor characters, some are more gently ushered offstage.
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#5565

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Posted Feb 29, 2012 @ 4:53 PM

If Mattel made a deal to make Downton Abbey dolls in those period costumes, I have to say I might just not be able to resist.


Oh, what a lovely idea! Is this just a hope or have you read something about this being a possibility? I'm a closet doll collector...if this ever comes to pass I'll not be able to resist. I'm already thinking where I could put them....Mr. YumYum could build some shelves....

I love period dramas but have never seen costuming done as beautifully as it is in DA. Characters' hair, accessories....everything is just gorgeous.
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#5566

Kate the Cursed

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Posted Feb 29, 2012 @ 4:54 PM

It's possible that they just shot all the scenes they'd need that car for at once.
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#5567

Princess Aldrea

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Posted Feb 29, 2012 @ 5:18 PM

And yes, it does seem like Robert doesn't want this grandchild. I think it's the most disappointing behavior I've ever seen from him. What happened to S1 Robert who was so concerned about the Third Class passengers on the Titanic, who defended his right to have the kind of bond with a servant that he has with Bates? Is he so threatened by the loss of his world and power that he lashes out at this little threat to it? I don't mean to sound sentimental. But while his feelings might even be understandable, they're not defensible.

I don't think it's a change at all. He wants to be able to bond with Bates because Bates saved his life but he's not inviting him to marry his daughter or his sister. He doesn't want poor people to die but that's hardly the same as wanting them living in his house.

And Robert was operating under the delusion that Sybil was just going through a phase and they could get an annulment when she came to her senses. This pregnancy makes her wedding and the fact that she "threw her life away" all that much more real to him and he knows that she can never go back. This is probably the worst thing that could have possibly happened to his daughter from his perspective. Of course he's not going to be happy.
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#5568

Mrs Tebbens

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Posted Feb 29, 2012 @ 7:30 PM

I love period dramas but have never seen costuming done as beautifully as it is in DA. Characters' hair, accessories....everything is just gorgeous.


Even the men's hair looks right for the period. I thought Lang looked exactly like an old photograph.
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#5569

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Posted Feb 29, 2012 @ 7:46 PM

I understand that it's in character for him to be unhappy, but it sure doesn't make me like him. It reminds me of some American Southerners in the past, who had intimate relations with blacks in many ways but didn't want them getting above their stations. The saying is that they didn't care how close blacks got so long as they didn't get too uppity. Branson got too uppity.

So for Robert it's all fine so long as it's noblesse oblige, but ask for equality (early marriage equality) and he turns into an insulting bully.
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#5570

Princess Aldrea

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Posted Feb 29, 2012 @ 8:54 PM

So for Robert it's all fine so long as it's noblesse oblige, but ask for equality (early marriage equality) and he turns into an insulting bully.

I don't think it was about him wanting to oppress anyone or not have marriage equality. He was just convinced that Sybil going ot live in Ireland with a chauffer would ruin her life because she'd have no place in society (true) and very little money (compared to what she'd have if she hadn't, also true). He just can't understand that she might want something out of life that doesn't require a place in society and a lot of money.
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#5571

angelaudie

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Posted Feb 29, 2012 @ 9:24 PM

Robert didn't go running to Parliament to try to make it illegal for people to marry outside their social class. I don't see him trying to prevent marriage equality.

Robert objected to marriage for social and financial reasons. Now, the social reasons by today's standards seem stupid but those reasons were very sound during this time period. Notice that Carson was appalled by the engagement as well. People on both sides of the tracks found such matches distasteful. Branson may well have a job but who knows how much that position pays. Even if the job paid well there's no way Branson can keep Sybil in DA lifestyle. She very well may not be starving but she might end up struggling more than she realized.

It would be extremely unrealistic for Robert to turn cartwheels over Sybil's marriage to Branson. Robert is extremely stubborn so it's probably going to take time for him to soften up. He may not be happy about the baby now but that doesn't mean he won't be thrilled with the baby down the road. There are many cases of grandparents who were not happy about the circumstances of a grandchild's birth but got over whatever bothered them. I would not be the least bit shocked if Robert takes one look at Sybil's baby and just loves the kid instantly. In fact, knowing Fellowes that's probably what's going to happen.

I'm interested in Mary, Edith, and Violet's reactions to Sybil's pregnancy. Mary and Edith put aside their reservations to attend the wedding so I bet they'll find a way to be happy for Sybil. They'll probably be good aunts. Violet I go back and forth on. I can easily see her having Robert's reaction but I can also picture her deciding to just focus on she's getting a great grandchild and being happy about that.
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#5572

HoneyBee

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Posted Mar 1, 2012 @ 12:42 AM

Spoiler pic, do you mean this one?


The one that I saw had a close up of him wearing that valet uniform. But yes, this is the same scene though. Thanks.
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#5573

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Posted Mar 1, 2012 @ 12:47 AM

Robert's reaction is totally in character for someone of his era and stature. That being said, in hindsight it seems classist and rigid. Things change, and usually for good reason. He will have to bend with the winds of change if he doesn't want to break.

I mean, my Southern grandparents were comparatively racist. Given their upbringing I suppose it's understandable; but it is certainly less than admirable.

I guess I don't agree that the social reasons for opposing inter-class marriages were "sound.". I think they were pretty stupid. Carson's opinion doesn't sway me because he's a bigger snob than his boss. IMO, he's rather self-loathing.

Edited by Scoutlet, Mar 1, 2012 @ 12:54 AM.

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#5574

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Posted Mar 1, 2012 @ 6:13 AM

There's also some casting news for downstairs.


I saw in the article linked to within that article that Alfred the new footman - played by Matt Milne - is O'Brien's nephew. It will be interesting to see how his arrival affects her relationship with Thomas, who's in some ways had almost a mother/son relationship with her, even if they've been less in agreement lately than they were before WWI. The arrival of an actual younger male family member to her could put Thomas' nose out of joint. And I wonder will Alfred be nasty like them, or a good guy like William was?
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#5575

Princess Aldrea

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Posted Mar 1, 2012 @ 12:59 PM

I guess I don't agree that the social reasons for opposing inter-class marriages were "sound.". I think they were pretty stupid.

It may be stupid for Sybil to have to worry that everyone she's ever known will have nothing more to do with her ever for her actions but the sad fact is that that was what she was facing. To me, it doesn't matter if things shouldn't be like that. The fact that it is makes the reasons sound. And leaving a good life for war-torn nation and questionable prospects doesn't sound like a good idea today.
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#5576

Layla17

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Posted Mar 1, 2012 @ 5:42 PM

I think Lord Grantham's reaction was perfectly valid and not just because he's rigid and old-fashioned. His daughter made a decision that had far more potential downside than upside, and she did it with the utmost naivete as all young people do. Any good parent would have been worried and upset under the circumstances.
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#5577

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Posted Mar 1, 2012 @ 7:10 PM

I'll have to agree to disagree about the naïveté part. She thought long and hard before making her decision. I do think her life will be harder but her behavior indicates that she WANTS it to be harder. She missed the bustle of the War when it was over. Some people thrive in chaos.
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#5578

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Posted Mar 1, 2012 @ 7:10 PM

I think Lord Grantham's reaction was perfectly valid and not just because he's rigid and old-fashioned. His daughter made a decision that had far more potential downside than upside, and she did it with the utmost naivete as all young people do. Any good parent would have been worried and upset under the circumstances.


I totally agree. A parent in this day and age would, I would think, have much the same reaction to a life-changing decision being made by a daughter...a decision that the parent feels is wrong, based on the parent's experience with life. It doesn't mean the parent has to forbid it, or do something to prevent it....but you gotta worry and agonize a bit when they do things like this. Good for his Lordship.

Edited by TWoP Roxy, Mar 5, 2012 @ 3:33 PM.

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#5579

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Posted Mar 1, 2012 @ 7:36 PM

But he didn't just worry and agonize, he raged, threatened to cut her off, and tried to bribe her fiancé to abandon her. I suppose if he had taken the bribe she would have been better off without him, but still. I saw a man threatened with loss of control as much as a concerned parent.

Sybil does not believe in the class system. She said as much to Mary. So she chose her principles over her relationships with those who don't approve of them. It would be nice if she could have both, but she can't. Living your principles can be very hard.

On to DA eye candy, I didn't realize that the Duke of Crowborough was played by Charlie Cox. I love him as the sexy/psycho Irish henchman in Boardwalk Empire. He's quite versatile!

Edited by Scoutlet, Mar 1, 2012 @ 11:46 PM.

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#5580

Swackman

Swackman

    Channel Surfer

Posted Mar 1, 2012 @ 10:25 PM

Gawker posted something (via Guardian) regarding Julian Fellowes' latest work, comparing it to Downton:
http://gawker.com/58...en-more-titanic
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