66 replies to this topic

[avaleigh]

Gillian is an intriguing character and I'm interested to know more of her backstory. She's very young to have a son as old as Jimmy and she seems to have been enjoying "admirers" in one form or another for the past twenty years or so. She isn't easily intimidated and can obviously hold her own with a politician like Nucky or a gangster like Luciano. She's warm as a grandmother and appears to love her grandchild even though she balks at the idea of being called grandma. She has a warm relationship with her son Jimmy as well but it's also a little tense. They seem to be close yet she doesn't feel that she can confront him about something like the theft of the necklace or his overall changed demeanor since she last saw him. Jimmy buys her a more expensive gift than he buys for Angela, yet we also see that he doesn't tell Gillian that he's back in town for over a month. Nor do we get any indication that Jimmy tells Gillian personally that he'll be away from Atlantic City for the forseeable future, perhaps forever. It's curious that her son wouldn't want to say goodbye if he wasn't sure when he'd ever see her again.

This thread is for discussion related to Gillian.

[Boisvert 8]

Glad to see a Gillian thread finally popping up. Ep 4 really began to show us more sides of this character. And she's smart- at this point in BE nobody could dismiss her as a dumb chorine starring in some faux "cultural" nudie show.

Gillian played Luciano perfectly from the moment she opened the door. I had to remind myself during their scenes together just how lethal "gangster toddler" Lucky Luciano could be, since she had transformed him into a love-sick puppy following her around. She's playing a dangerous game with him, but she's willing to play it to protect her son.

Remains to be seen if Gillian can play him in just the right way to throw him off Jimmy's trail.

[GraydonCarter]

I think of Gretchen Mol as being so young, but she is approaching her 39th birthday next month (not that that's old). She just looks really young. Good genes.

[Scary Spice]

I think Gillian is trying to push her son's girlfriend out of the way and raise the child so that she can pass him off as her own and therefore appear young. The scene where she was studying her face in the mirror was what convinced me of this.

[Sanveann]

I don't know, Scary ... I took it more as realizing, "I'm getting past my prime, so I might as well take care of the kid and let Angela have some fun."

Once upon a time, I was a Fairly Cute Young Thing, and I struggled to let go of that as I got older and less cute :) Now I'm getting more comfortable in my role as Mom and am happy to let another generation take on the role of Cute Girl.

[18matt]

Ok, so has the show explicitly stated that Gillian is Jimmy's mother? Because when Jimmy went to see her at Burlesque show to give her the necklace, they made it seem like she was his sister.

[avaleigh]

He calls her "ma" in the scene where he goes to see her at the burlesque show. Not only that but she tells Nucky that she's Jimmy's mother, and we have Angela referring to her as Tommy's grandmother. He also tells Pearl that his mother is "still beautiful" which definitely sounds like Gillian.

I'm pretty sure there have been other mentions as well. In any case one of the show's creators confirmed via interview that she is indeed his mother and that she probably got pregnant at 13 and had him at 14. Supposedly this will be addressed at some point later this season.

I think Gillian is trying to push her son's girlfriend out of the way and raise the child so that she can pass him off as her own and therefore appear young.

I'd believe that more if most everyone she hangs out with didn't already know that she has a son as old as Jimmy. All of her girlfriends seemed to know who he is so her age is already there for everyone to see. The only person who seems to be in the dark about all of this is Lucky.

I think it's a little more about wanting to be a mother now that she feels that she is ready. She seems like she has these maternal feelings but isn't necessarily interested in giving birth again, so in her mind she's thinking 'Why not be a mother to Jimmy's boy? The baby part is over, Angela seems like she *might* be persuaded to go away to live her own life, and it will help fill the void left by Jimmy." I think she felt she was too young when she had Jimmy and that she's now the right age to take on the responsibilities of a parent. While her heart seems to be in the right place regarding Tommy, the whiskey spiked milk scene pretty much showed the audience that she probably won't raise him any differently than she raised Jimmy.

Another idea to consider is that maybe she can't have any more kids? Could she have had a botched procedure post-Jimmy?

As for the scene where she's looking at her face in the mirror, IMO she knows that she only has a few good years left in her as a showgirl so she needs to develop som kind of a back up plan--one that likely involves a man. If she's again looking to try to talk a man into marrying her (like in the story Jimmy tells about her to Pearl) maybe she thinks that having Tommy could be a help to landing her in a "proper" marriage and domestic situation?

[tapshoes]

Gretchen Mol is listed as a guest star in the credits which leads me to believe that she will meet an untimely death before the end of the season.

[Emily Thrace]

Gretchen Mol is listed as a guest star in the credits which leads me to believe that she will meet an untimely death before the end of the season

If this wasn't the first season I'd agree with you. However its not unusual for a character to be listed as guest for the first season simply because TPTB are not sure how the audience will respond to them. Plus with the initial financial outlay they probably wanted to keep the cast as small as possible at least until they were sure about the shows success.

[gidgetgoes]

I know that everyone is speculating that Gillian had a thing with Nucky, and even that Jimmy might be their son, but I get the feeling Gillian is maybe Nucky's sister. Does anyone know if there's been any mention of her family?

[avaleigh]

I don't think we've had any mentions of Gillian's family so far. I don't even think it's clear whether or not she was ever married to a Mr. Darmody. I think it's intereting that she's the only character on the HBO site who isn't given a last name.

I recently read speculation that Jimmy might have been talking about the Commodore in his story to Pearl about sailing on some rich man's yacht. If the Commodore is the man in the story Jimmy told that makes me think that he won't turn out to be Jimmy's father after all.

Upon rewatching the Nucky/Lucky/Eli scene, I do think that Eli's response was more about Nucky than it was about his own personal feelings on Gillian. The minute Lucky mentions Gillian in that flippant way, Eli looks at Nucky waiting to see how pissed he's going to get. When Lucky makes a move Eli is all about protecting Nucky. I don't think he cares all that much about Gillian either way. IMO his reaction was about the fact that Nucky cares.

I'll still be a little surprised if Gillian and Nucky turn out to be the parents of Jimmy (the fact that they aren't being straightforward about who the father is coupled with the mentions of Nucky not having any kids) but things do seem to be pointed in that direction.

[bulldawgtownie]

Gretchen Mol is listed as a guest star in the credits which leads me to believe that she will meet an untimely death before the end of the season

Who is listed in the main credits and who is listed as a guest star has more to do with how good someone's agent is and leverage rather than an indication on who will or will not die or how much screen time a person will get. They're even handed out to an actor or actress in lieu of giving them a raise. In short I wouldn't put too much importance into who gets credited as a regular and who is just a "guest star". For example most of the cast of The Office started off being listed as "guest stars" way back in the first season

Edited by bulldawgtownie, Nov 5, 2010 @ 1:28 AM.

[majenta]

I'm really surprised that Aleksa Paladino (Angela), who has been in some indie movies but is not that well-known is credited as a series regular while Gretchen Mol, a more established actor, is a guest star. I hope it's just politics and doesn't portend anything for the plot.
I actually really like Gillian's character. She's the only female character that is independent and that stands up to the male characters.

[sopheeso]

My favorite "guest star" regular has to be Heather Locklear on Melrose Place. She came last in the opening credits with a huge "and special guest star" flashing over the screen before putting her name up. I think she had said she would only do the show if they listed her that way.

[sleekandchic]

I actually really like Gillian's character. She's the only female character that is independent and that stands up to the male characters.

Gillian is an intelligent character for sure -- very perceptive and forward-thinking. Her offer to Angela to go ahead and live her life as she saw fit was done without an ounce of guilt-inducement or judgment. And the gentle tableau of Gillian's knocking out her little grandson with booze to soothe his teething was black comedy gold. Poor little bear fell dead in his tracks!

This page talks about the Fake Guest Star and gives some interesting examples.

The excerpt below might apply to Gretchen Mol's situation, I'm guessing, because, other than Steve Buscemi and, to a lesser extent, Kelly Macdonald, the rest of the regular cast aren't household names (I don't think?):

"Fake Guest Star: An actor who is, to all outward observation, a member of the regular cast, but who still receives guest billing. This usually has something to do their contract and whether or not it stipulates that they receive main cast billing (and possibly with how much they get paid), though in some cases it may be done as a gimmick to call attention to an actor whose reputation vastly exceeds that of the rest of the cast." [emphasis added]

[bulldawgtownie]

If Nucky had been taking care of her the way he we've seen him take care of Margaret, why would she have needed to continue to be a showgirl and why would she ever have been in a position where she has to sell her jewelry.

I suspect having to sell her jewelry came before Nucky's support and may have even been the straw that broke the camel's back for him and finally convinced Nucky that he had to step in and do something since Jimmy's father wouldn't. As to why Gillian remained a showgirl, maybe Nucky's help wasn't enough to provide the type of lifestyle Gillian wanted. I seriously doubt he supported her the same way he's supporting Margaret, more like he gave Gillian some money to help with the bills. He didn't buy her clothes, house and feed her and Jimmy, etc. Also being a showgirl may be all Gillian knows, she may not want to leave that life and have to rely on a man to support her

Edited by bulldawgtownie, Nov 12, 2010 @ 12:56 PM.

[LittleOat]

If Nucky had been taking care of her the way he we've seen him take care of Margaret, why would she have needed to continue to be a showgirl and why would she ever have been in a position where she has to sell her jewelry.

Also being a showgirl may be all Gillian knows, she may not want to leave that life and have to rely on a man to support her

My guess is this, for the most part. I think Gillian is smart and knows, that while she could probably live off of Nucky's charity, she wants to be independent. Not only that, she knows she has to be independent. In a situation like that, the gravy train can end at any time. I think this is why she is being a little hard on Angela. This is only a guess, though, based mostly on the evidence that she is smart and perceptive. I think it didn't take a lot for her to figure Angela out. Also, I seriously thought she only got with Lucky because she wanted a little action and because he is such a cutie. But when Jimmy called her and asked for information on Lucky, I said "duh" to myself. Of course she knew something was going on and wanted to get some information for Jimmy (while getting a little on the side, of course).

I just hope she knows being a showgirl only lasts until gravity starts taking its course!

Either way, I'm looking forward to learning more about Gillian. Especially her connection to Nucky and of course who Jimmy's father is, but just her as a character overall. I think Mol is great in this role.

[bulldawgtownie]

I just hope she knows being a showgirl only lasts until gravity starts taking its course!

She does, I remember there being a scene where Gillian looks at herself in the mirror and pulls up the sides of her face. My guess is she's starting to see some wrinkles and knows her time as a showgirl is coming to an end

[tapshoes]

Gillian cannot possibly be long for Atlantic City. She's screwed Lucky - literally and figuratively - and poisoned the Commodore. Neither man is know for his forgiving and gentle nature. It would not be be surprising if she meets her end soon in brutal, operatic fashion. I still say this is why Gretchen Mol is given guest star status in the opening credits.

[Grom]

I have a feeling the fact that the Commodore was being poisoned will be kept from the Commodore by Jimmy.

[Scoutlet]

That's too bad, because Gillian is the only character I like more now than I did at the beginning of the series.

[bulldawgtownie]

Gillian cannot possibly be long for Atlantic City. She's screwed Lucky - literally and figuratively - and poisoned the Commodore. Neither man is know for his forgiving and gentle nature. It would not be be surprising if she meets her end soon in brutal, operatic fashion. I still say this is why Gretchen Mol is given guest star status in the opening credits

I think as long as Gillian stays in Nucky's good graces she'll be fine. I'm sure the Commodore has many enemies and he won't be able to figure out Gillian was the one poisioning him and I don't think Lucky will try to do anything to her because he likes her.

[avaleigh]

Gretchen Mol has already confirmed that she be back for the second season.

[Emily Thrace]

Gretchen Mol is a mom again she had Winter Morgan Williams a girl Feb. 17

[Boisvert 8]

Re: Gillian's "winky" comment to Angela-
Don't care if you are the kid's grandma (don't even care if you made it up to get Mommy's goat), you'd never be left alone with Tommy again.

CreePee.

[Limbonaut]

Yeah I was really grossed out by that too. I think she thought it was no big deal since she causally told it to Angela and that it somehow made her look like an affectionate mother. On the other hand we have Nucky telling Margaret that Gillian hardly spent any time with Jimmy when he was a boy and that Nucky had to take care of him even when he was sick because she was out partying. The point I think was that both the Commodore and Gillian were not only messed up(the latter probably because of the former) but neglectful. Nucky was the only real parent Jimmy had and now he's secretly betraying him.

Edited by Limbonaut, Sep 26, 2011 @ 3:08 PM.

[ScrubMonkey]

you'd never be left alone with Tommy again.

Oh crap. Never even thought of that. You're right. And it would fit right in with Gillian's obviously trying to push Angie out of the way. It's sooo obvious Gillian considers herself the wife, mother and woman of the house. She doesn't even bother to hide her disdain of Angela - and it woudln't matter if Angela were an angel complete with wings, Gillian'd find faults.

But yikes. Between Jimmy and Gillian, that kid's in real danger.

[TWoP Howard]

I’m not worried about Gillian abusing Tommy, because I don’t think that’s what her telling Angela about kissing baby Jimmy’s penis was about. I do think she is determined not to give up a bit of her power over Jimmy to Angela, so she’s going to use her history with Jimmy over Angela in every way she can.

As someone mentioned in the episode thread, she could shrug Angela off when she was just Tommy’s mother and Jimmy’s live-in girlfriend. Now that she’s Jimmy’s wife, she’s got a place in Jimmy’s life and the kind of respectable relationship that Gillian never had. I think that Gillian looks at any efforts by Angela to assert her position as Jimmy’s wife as a serious threat to Gillian’s place in Jimmy’s life.

Edited by TWoP Howard, Sep 27, 2011 @ 6:25 PM.

[Boisvert 8]

I certainly get where you're coming from plot-wise, TWoP Howard, but my personal feeling (instinct, call it what you will) was for Angela to take steps to protect Tommy from the kind of boundary-less life that little Jimmy had experienced with Gillian. Not so much an abuse scenario came from her remark (for me) as a potentially damaging blurring of "Grandma" Gillian's role because of her actions toward Tommy during his childhood psych development.

Very early days in S2- we'll have to wait to see how the Angela/Jimmy/Gillian triangle shakes out & what import that remark really has in the family's dynamic, I guess.

[TWoP Howard]

And then there’s her relationship with the Commodore. She seems pretty invested in keeping Jimmy allied with him rather than gravitating back to Nucky’s side.