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4-11: "Chinese Wall" 2010.10.03


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#541

Derin

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Posted Oct 10, 2010 @ 9:47 AM

Thank you Inquisitionist. I wasn't aware it's been more than 2 months already.


Hate to say this, but either Megan or Faye has got to go Fatal Attraction-style psycho on Don's trifling ass for me to be satisfied. They can't let the guy keep doing this stuff without suffering some real consequences.


I think that would make them look worse than him, actually.


I agree Sister Magpie. However, I think Faye is very much capable of lashing out fiercely at Don once she finds out about Megan. Even if she doesn't go psycho, I feel, at least, a real slap on the face is coming his way. Though, there's a great chance he might morbidly enjoy it, you know.

#542

IDrive65

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Posted Oct 10, 2010 @ 9:49 AM

I'm pretty sure that Don's ahead of his time in terms of sexual technique,


I'm sure the fact that he's handsome and successful Don Draper is a big part of his attraction, of course, but what do you mean? He's doing nothing more than what people have done before and since, although every generation likes to think they invented it.

#543

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Posted Oct 10, 2010 @ 10:14 AM

He's doing nothing more than what people have done before and since, although every generation likes to think they invented it.

I don't know about that. More men in the '60s were clueless about satisfying women, I think. Not that I was "active" then, but certainly in the '70s, when I was, they often seemed clueless. There has been a lot more media about womens' sexual needs in the intervening years. That was just starting to get popular attention in the '60s--many men hadn't caught up yet.

I've gotten the impression from a couple of scenes (sorry I can't be specific; I don't remember the details) that Don's partners felt particularly satisfied afterward. So I thought he must be somewhat accomplished in that department.

#544

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Posted Oct 10, 2010 @ 10:36 AM

Peggy: “whenever something good happens something bad happens. I knew I’d pay for it”. I suppose she’s talking about Abe, but Don doesn’t know about him, so what good thing does he think she’s talking about?- “…you're not paying for anything”… does he know what she meant? Maybe I’m missing something here.


Don't know any real Catholics I take it? This sounded very true to me. It does not matter whether Don know's what Peggy is talking about, Peggy is talking to herself about the Christian version of Karma. This reminds me of my mom buying us and herself ice cream on the way home, to find a letter about an error the bank made. Even as a kid I knew those two could not be directly related, but she would utter the same sentiment.

I think in these posts people are not giving Megan enough credit. One of the first episodes we saw her in, she made a remark (to lesbian Joyce?) that she'd rather read a book, but that she wasn't allowed. I think her actions in this episode where deliberate, and part of a longer term plan. I am not sure she is aware of Faye, since most of the time these two dress their interactions up through memo's and phone messages that appear work related, and I am not sure that would stop her. I think Megan wants to be the next Mrs. Draper.

#545

AuroraAustralis

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Posted Oct 10, 2010 @ 11:07 AM

...The skirt is up, the pants are almost down and voila! Women are running from one orgazm to another. I'm not convinced. It kind of bothers me, because it seems that women are always left pleased....


I think this is just a trait of tv. If they showed how long it really usually takes and how seldom women really orgasm, viewers would flee in droves. To succinctly send the message "Don is good" or "Joan and Roger are having desperate sex", they need to resort to near instant moans and fireworks.

I don't think they inflicted Peggy moaning on us last ep, though, did they? That seemed more realistic. We just saw her being playful and affectionate.

It's kind of funny that we rarely see men moaning in pleasure on tv. I guess they don't need to waste any 'dialog' on showing that the man is enjoying himself. LOL

#546

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Posted Oct 10, 2010 @ 12:15 PM

One assumes that he's got some oversized equipment


Heh. Well, Jezebel just posted a whole series of shots of John Hamm where you can clearly see his...er...physique. Not that he's wearing a Speedo, but he definitely enjoys tight pants, Scottish Regulation Style, or both. Oh, ah, hello. My goodness, suddenly I know you so well.

One thing, though, while we have seen all kinds of women "going down on" him, it'd be nice to see him going down on them for a change.


Damn straight! They manage to imply it pretty clearly over on Sons Of Anarchy, and those guys don't even bathe! C'mon, Don, you already lost Rachel to them, time to get on the stick (or really, the opposite of a stick.)

Edited by Snookums, Oct 10, 2010 @ 12:17 PM.


#547

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Posted Oct 10, 2010 @ 3:42 PM

Betty would have already thrown it in his face.


She might never have even have had one, or given what we know about her upbringing, even known that it was possible to have one. And that certainly wouldn't mean that she didn't have satisfying sex with him.

Edited by Jschoolgirl, Oct 10, 2010 @ 6:33 PM.


#548

mickbeth

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Posted Oct 16, 2010 @ 9:13 AM

I've gotten the impression from a couple of scenes (sorry I can't be specific; I don't remember the details) that Don's partners felt particularly satisfied afterward. So I thought he must be somewhat accomplished in that department.


Studies show that when they are with "alpha" men, women have more orgasms. And alpha men supposedly even smell better. It's your Tilden Katz types who have to work harder at it.

#549

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Posted Oct 16, 2010 @ 8:49 PM

Betty would have already thrown it in his face.



She might never have even have had one, or given what we know about her upbringing, even known that it was possible to have one. And that certainly wouldn't mean that she didn't have satisfying sex with him.


Yes, it would. Sorry, but sex without an orgasm is a real downer. Historically men have felt comfortable having sex without worrying about whether the woman had one or not, (which is what I meant by Don being ahead of his time,) but they're nowhere near so relaxed about the idea of never having one themselves. Women have always been expected to be sanguine and laid back about whether or not they climax, because intercourse is designed to induce a male orgasm, but not at all guaranteed to provoke a female one without a little help.

Certainly many women knew nothing about them, and Betty could have been one, but she's educated, she's well-read, and probably does know about them. If she didn't know before marriage, she certainly knew after the washing machine.

And I seriously doubt that she would have remained so hot for Don after ten years of him leaving her frustrated, aroused, and unsatisfied. Her feelings would have cooled considerably, along with her interest in sex itself, after a decade of no orgasms, even if she didn't know what they were called. We've seen Betty in action, and she's very eager for sex. She got on top of Don at her Dad's house, so I don't think she's some uptight frigid little person still very confused about sex and what turns her on. She's not one of those anorgasmic girls who never masturbated, or some sheltered creature who has sex mainly to please her man. Her lively attitude towards sex is one of her redeeming qualities.

#550

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Posted Oct 16, 2010 @ 10:57 PM

We've seen Betty in action, and she's very eager for sex. She got on top of Don at her Dad's house, so I don't think she's some uptight frigid little person still very confused about sex and what turns her on. She's not one of those anorgasmic girls who never masturbated, or some sheltered creature who has sex mainly to please her man. Her lively attitude towards sex is one of her redeeming qualities.

Except for the points that you have listed, I was pretty sure that Betty would not have missed orgasm as there was no reason to believe that she would actually know what it was. That fact that one could have sensations "down there" wasn't necessarily related to one's duty to one's husband. But after you have listed what we have seen about Betty, now I wonder where she got her information - oh yeah, anthropology - Margaret Mead! who was famous for a studying a certain "primative" ethnic group who seemed to have a very "liberated" view of sex! (was her research out by the time Betty would have gone to college?). If that information was available, we can at least see the value of an anthropology degree - from Betty's perspective.

Edited by anothermi, Oct 16, 2010 @ 10:59 PM.


#551

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Posted Oct 17, 2010 @ 6:20 AM

Betty as an anthropology major at Bryn Mawr makes no sense to me. Art history or another more genteel major would make more sense, and might explain being able to speak Italian.

If every detail on the show is supposed to mean something, I wonder if were are supposed to assume that Betty was once less predictable and more interesting than she is now.

#552

Inquisitionist

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Posted Oct 17, 2010 @ 7:57 AM

In my experience, lots of people major in subjects they never really understand, so why should Betty be any different? ;-)

I suppose Weiner meant anthropology to be ironic. Betty could also have minored in Italian (I checked, and it has been a language option at Bryn Mawr for ages), and honed her speaking while modeling there afterwards.

#553

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Posted Dec 19, 2010 @ 8:46 PM

Lots of interesting comments. One thing that struck me watching the episode, was the last days of Rome/ end of the world theme. Stan is a big asshole, and his prank to get Peggy to kiss him backfired, but give him this much: he does have prior experience in an agency that is going down, and has seen how the female employees acted. The energy is very good, he says.

Now, Peggy isn't at all interested in Stan, so he misinterpreted his chances with her. But Megan is very interested in Don (he's in her head all day, even when she goes home) so she would be much more susceptible to the effect Stan describes. I point this out in answer to those who thought Megan's sudden interest in sex with Don was out of the blue, or out of character.

For Don's part, he lives permanently in the last days of Rome, and his slutty behavior is always consistent with that. On top of that, he has had some "muggings" of late, the DOD scare and now losing his firm's main client. Just as being mugged along with Roger made Joan take immediate comfort in sex, these events could tip Don out of his usual caution re secretaries.

I still thought the seduction scene was a bit rushed, though, and Megan leaning in to kiss Don the first time felt a bit forced, and the actress was clumsy and nervous, but maybe it was written and directed that way. She rushed through her line just before, too, "Why do you care what I think?" It was so clumsy, it probably wouldn't have worked on anyone but Don, and maybe even then had he not been primed by the recent shocks, as well as her sympathetic treatment of his daughter when she fell, which I think touched a very deep nerve in the old son of a whore.

#554

Tom Bomb

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Posted Dec 27, 2010 @ 12:51 AM

Had time to watch the seduction scene again. I think I was a bit too critical of JP's handling of it. The pacing wasn't all that rushed, though I'm used to Mad Men lines having very slow deliveries at times, compared to other TV or even other American movies.

One thing that was probably bothering me about the scene, that I just realized: Why was Don sitting on the chair next to the couch, when he got the campaign briefs from Ken's accounts? Granted, his desk blotter was staked out by the Clio Megan had glued back together, but the marks were a bit convenient.

Also, I just realized that the line just before Megan kisses Don, "Why do you care what I think?" is almost word for word what Don asks Peggy in the Lets Go Someplace Darker Bar in the Suitcase ep.

"Men don't exactly, stop in the streets."

"Do you want that?"

"That's not what you were supposed to say."

"What do you care what I think?"

Of course, both Don and Peggy know that she cares a great deal what he thinks. It must have been intentional on the writer's part that Megan echoed this line with Don, perhaps to reinforce the bond that had developed almost subconsciously between them since the episode with Don's daughter running away to/from him.

Edited by Tom Bomb, Dec 27, 2010 @ 12:56 AM.


#555

Inquisitionist

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Posted Dec 27, 2010 @ 9:10 AM

Also, I just realized that the line just before Megan kisses Don, "Why do you care what I think?" is almost word for word what Don asks Peggy in the Lets Go Someplace Darker Bar in the Suitcase ep.

Good catch. These callbacks are never merely coincidental on Mad Men. ;-)

#556

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Posted Oct 19, 2011 @ 10:39 AM

Roger sure knows how to fake it. The sad thing is, if he had been upfront to begin with, SCDP could have been prepared to handle the rest of the clients better, plus have more new clients lined up. Roger sure screwed the pooch.

Of course Joan kept quiet, once she found out the secret. She's all about storing away little tidbits of info for later use.

Stan was stupid. Yes, he wanted to get back at Peggy because he misunderstood her to begin with, but his stunt could have cost another client.

Don sure doesn't learn with his sec'y (although I know it worked out better for Megan).

#557

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Posted Oct 19, 2011 @ 11:32 AM

Don sure doesn't learn with his sec'y

He did put the brakes on twice, but Megan kept steam-rolling right at him.

Roger sure knows how to fake it. The sad thing is, if he had been upfront to begin with, SCDP could have been prepared to handle the rest of the clients better, plus have more new clients lined up. Roger sure screwed the pooch.

Really. He did nothing with his 30 days (or slightly less than). The other SCDP partners (the ones who actually care about running the business) could have used that time to better effect.

#558

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Posted Jan 4, 2013 @ 5:32 PM

I thought the end song of this ep, as Don and Faye share a quiet moment, was curious but meaningful. Sounds like a joke at first, Don to himself remarking wryly that this is typical of his world. But the lyrics follow up on a different path:

Welcome to my world
Won't you come on in
Miracles I guess
Still happen now and then
Step into my heart
Leave your cares behind
Welcome to my world
Built with you in mind
Knock and the door will open
Seek and you will find
Ask and you'll be given
The key to this world of mine
I'll be waiting here
With my arms unfurled
Waiting just for you
Welcome to my world


I concluded that Don is hearing this song in his imagination, but Megan is singing it to him.

#559

BBDi

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Posted Jan 6, 2013 @ 8:46 AM

In retrospect that song sure has quite a double meaning, or even a triple one.

#560

Tom Bomb

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Posted Jan 6, 2013 @ 10:45 AM

Yes, BBDi, this is when Tammy is born, so you could add that in too, I guess. I still think Megan is the best fit to the lyrics.

#561

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Posted Jun 23, 2013 @ 11:32 AM

"Am I wrong or is she givin' it off?" Danny's remark to Stan as Peggy leaves the room, triggers this from him:

Well, it's the last days of Rome. I was in an agency that went down. The women get sex crazed. The energy is [pauses emphatically] very good.

This is a key to understanding Megan's sex-crazed feeling for Don later in the ep. I think.

 

Stan didn't capitalize with Peggy here, because she had just found Abe before "the end of the world" hit the firm, but Megan was free, and had been in the front row of her boss's desperately rousing speech after Bert announced the bad news.

 

Another wrinkle in this ep, Ted tries to seduce Pete with a visit to Trudy's maternity and announces that Cutler's retirement could open a third of CGC up for Pete  to step in: Campbell, Gleason and Chaough!