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Damon/Elena: I Wanted It to Be Real


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#601

zizou

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Posted Oct 21, 2012 @ 11:18 AM

To me, that it why I found Damon completely irrational.


Oh I agree, I've never said Damon was being rational. I just don't think it had anything to do with him thinking about Elena's well-being or not.

Anyway, that's something that frustrates me about Elena. She's supposed to be this compassionate person, but she seems to have no ability to see anyone else's feelings or thoughts on things. In my opinion, all she cares about is what she wants, no matter how it makes anyone else feel


I think the same thing and this is one of the reasons why I disliked last season finale so much: Elena wanted Stefan to save Matt because she didn't want to live knowing that Matt was dead to save her. So it's Matt that gets to live with that kind of guilt instead (which, according to Elena, must be worse than death). As for Stefan, she basically asked him to live (eternally) with the knowledge that he let the love of his life die when he could have easily saved her. That's neither compassionate nor selfless in my opinion and I'd rather they stopped trying to present it as such.

Edited by zizou, Oct 21, 2012 @ 11:18 AM.

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#602

gingercharm21

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Posted Oct 22, 2012 @ 10:51 PM

Damon and Stefan would be better off without Elena. I absolutely believe she has brought nothing good to their lives, just drove them further apart. I'd even go so far as to say she brings misery near everyone who knows her, and they are vampires who have seen and been the causes of alot of death and misery.
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#603

KatWay

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Posted Oct 23, 2012 @ 5:02 AM

I'm a long time lurker and I can't believe this is going to be my first post, but here it is anyways:
The big problem of Damon/Elena to me is that I don’t think they can actually work out without some severe character assassination.

Now, I do think that they have mad chemistry and their scenes are always fun to watch (or were fun to watch before they became so angsty and angry all the time). And in Season One and Two I was looking forward to their development and hoping that they would eventually become a real couple.
However, I’ve recently changed my mind on this:
Damon is a complex, interesting and entertaining character and his moral ambiguity is a big part of what makes him interesting to watch. I used to think about him being redeemed on the show but I think he won’t ever be, not in the sense of Stefan: Stefan is a black/white kind of guy – he’s either a vicious killer OR a mopey, self-loathing good guy. He knows when he’s being the bad guy and he knows when he’s good. Now, that doesn’t make him all that compelling to watch or root for, but that’s essentially his character. Damon on the other hand is all about shades of grey – killing is allowed when it’s necessary, when someone threatens his friends, or even when he really doesn’t like someone. And I can’t see that changing – even as a human Damon was a lot more ambiguous about moral issues than Stefan. Damon knew that Katherine was killing people and still loved her, still wanted her to turn him into a vampire and even helped her to hunt people! I still love him (though I have issues with his character as well), but that’s messed up. That’s who Damon is.

In order to be a real love interest to Elena, to be someone who she would choose above all others, there are only two possibilities: Either Damon has to become ‘good’ or Elena has to be morally ambiguous as well (now, I have plenty of problems with that character, but her compassion is at least supposed to be the core of her). Point two is extremely unlikely, especially in a lasting function because it would pretty much destroy the show: Too much has happened to Elena’s loved ones, to the town, to innocent bystanders all to keep Elena safe, for her to become morally tarnished. The show runners could not expect viewers to keep rooting for a girl who is no longer worth all of the sacrifices that have happened in her name.

And point one? I used to think that this was what would happen, but the show has so far shown that even when he’s technically ‘good’, Damon just isn’t a white knight type of hero. That’s what makes him so interesting, but that’s also why he can’t be Elena’s one true love, IMO. To take away his shades of grey is to destroy the character and make him into Stefan No.2 and the show doesn’t need that. But as long as Damon is okay with killing people, doing the dirty work, etc. he can’t be the one that Elena chooses.
Unfortunately, I do think the show is headed in that direction anyways and it just doesn’t make any sense to me.
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#604

Limber

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Posted Oct 23, 2012 @ 12:56 PM

Either Damon has to become ‘good’ or Elena has to be morally ambiguous as well (now, I have plenty of problems with that character, but her compassion is at least supposed to be the core of her). Point two is extremely unlikely, especially in a lasting function because it would pretty much destroy the show: Too much has happened to Elena’s loved ones, to the town, to innocent bystanders all to keep Elena safe, for her to become morally tarnished.


I'm rooting for point two. Not so much for moral ambiguity, but a more realistic balance of power now that she's a vampire. In the past, Elena really couldn't be much of a protector bar self-sacrifice; when she was up against supernaturals, they would always be able to defeat her physically. But now she's on the other side of the scale, and her strength and newfound abilities could be used much more effectively in the defense of her friends. Bonnie's done some shady crap too, and I don't think we consider her Damonsque when it comes to morals.

More than anything it strikes me that Elena's moved from the world where Stefan feels most comfortable to the world where Damon is most comfortable. Damon excels at being a vampire. He's the one who can control his feeding, he has a clear-eyed view of survival, he doesn't shy away from the abilities he's gained since turning. It'll be interesting to see if Elena discovers her experience with vampirism is a lot closer to Damon's than Stefan's. If she goes Stefan's way, Elena will spend a lot of time denying herself the advantages of being a vampire, and she may not see any reason to do that since she doesn't have the same Ripper issues that Stefan does.

I think it's possible for Elena to move away from Stefan's black-and-white world at the same time as Damon is abandoning some of his more ruthless traits (something he's been doing for a while). They can temper each other. The blood exchange incident was a step along that path - Elena's willing to entertain some gray areas (drinking Damon's blood, bloodbags) while at the same time Damon is skeptical but ready to step up and help. Stefan seems to want Elena not to be a vampire, while Damon just wants her to be capable. In some ways, Stefan's path almost forces Elena to be dependent on Stefan - Damon, on the other hand, is trying to make Elena a fully operational and self-sufficient vampire ASAP by exposing her in a controlled way to the things that will be more trouble if they surprise her later.

Though I do wonder what would have happened if Elena and Damon had been locked up in the pastor's barn together. Stefan killed a man and threw him to Elena, and then Elena drank his blood without much question. Murderous Stefan, apparently moral-free Elena. If it had been Damon, I have absolutely no doubt he would've killed a guard without blinking, but is Elena so locked into this "Damon bad/Stefan good" thing that she would've rejected the blood and chosen to die because if Damon does it, it's automatically beneath her? Sometimes I think she damns Damon for actions that Stefan gets away with, and that does speak to an interesting bias.
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#605

zizou

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Posted Oct 23, 2012 @ 5:33 PM

But as long as Damon is okay with killing people, doing the dirty work, etc. he can't be the one that Elena chooses.


But everyone in the show is like that, none of them is above killing or generally doing morally ambiguous (if not outright "bad") things in order to protect someone they care about. There are many examples of this. I guess that's why all of them, except ironically Bonnie (who is supposed to be "judgy" but actually stopped judging people once she started acting shady herself), come off as big hypocrites to me.
I'm not sure we're supposed to see it that way tho, so you may very well be right.

Edited by zizou, Oct 23, 2012 @ 5:33 PM.

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#606

Sedruol

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Posted Oct 31, 2012 @ 10:23 PM

I'm intrigued by the dynamic they're building up for Damon & Elena this season.

Starting with how her vampire self came into being - she's in a lot of denial about what it means to honor her "choice" to die. Elena chastizes Damon for admitting he wouldn't have listened to her at Wickery Bridge and would have saved her first. Had it been Jeremy in the car with Matt, and Jeremy was begging her to save Matt first, vampire Elena would have ignored him just as quickly as Damon would have presumably ignored her. Who knows, maybe Damon would have figured out a way to save them both.

How many times this season has she chosen confide in Damon, when she could have easily called Stefan or Caroline? She knows he's not going to judge her, and whether she likes to admit it or not, she trusts him, and he challenges her in a good way. She does need to learn to feed like a "normal vampire" if this is going to be her existence - Stefan was very naive on that point. I think as she starts to feel the blood lust and the urge to kill, she'll understand Damon's impulses a lot better, and see why he makes the choices he makes. And respect the fact that, yes, he can feed on a human and not kill them (unless he wants to).

Last season, she was scared about what having feelings for Damon said about her. Now that she's a vampire, hopefuly she can get over her hangups and be honest. I just hope they don't keep dragging out the "will they or won't they" angst all season.
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#607

gingercharm21

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Posted Nov 1, 2012 @ 9:43 PM

I get that Damon is a dick at the best of times but I honestly don't understand why he lets Elena treat him the way she does, especially since he got all depressed when Katherine basically told him point blank she'd always wanted Stefan. I mean obviously we're supposed to believe it "hurts him" when she rejects him but the next week he's back to following her around like a little puppy dog. He wasted like 145 years being jerked around by Katherine, you'd think he'd be tired of it/gained some self respect by now. She had fun with Damon tonight, and then as soon as Stefan popped up/ Bonnie just gave her a LOOK (she starts crying) and she ditches Damon.

And can we have one episode where one character doesn't mention how damn compassionate Elena is. OMG she doesn't wanna kill anyone!! Uh yeah Caroline didn't WANT to kill people either when she was turned.
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#608

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Posted Nov 1, 2012 @ 10:22 PM

As much as they want to push Damon/Elena, I cant’ buy it. It will never be satisfying to me. She has already shown she is like minded with Stefan. Whether her inner self is more like Damon, that ship has sailed. I think Damon is worthy of a more interesting partner. Leave Stefan and Elena in their “I love unicorns and rainbows” world and let Damon be and be with the character he deserves.
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#609

jessied112

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Posted Nov 1, 2012 @ 10:53 PM

Elena uses Damon like a toy and it's seriously pissing me off. I cannot get behind a pairing where one of them constantly goes back and forth between him and his brother. And for the most part, it's totally one sided. I personally want both of them to leave Elena in the dust (LOL, literally I guess!) and move on. Because no matter what happens, if she switches off her humanity, she turns out to be Katherine and as much as I love Katherine and loved Season 1 Damon with a plan, I don't think I can stomach it with Elena. Her sobbing and saying she should have 'done this with Stefan' just broke the Delena horse and it's gone off into the sunset now.
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#610

Sedruol

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Posted Nov 1, 2012 @ 11:26 PM

Her sobbing and saying she should have 'done this with Stefan' just broke the Delena horse and it's gone off into the sunset now.


I would like to at least get to a point where Elena really appreciates Damon without constantly being ashamed or apologizing. Even if she doesn't hook up with him, I just don't like seeing her jerk him around like she has been. It's so the opposite of what a "compassionate" Elena would do when she knows that he loves her.
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#611

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Posted Nov 2, 2012 @ 9:34 AM

If Elena really felt she should have done this with Stefan, then Elena never should have gone to Damon for help in the first place. Damon needs to flat out tell Elena, “Call Stefan, I’m out.” I wish Damon telling Stefan, “She’s all yours,” would mean Damon was done trying to help Elena in any way.
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#612

winter bird

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Posted Nov 2, 2012 @ 10:33 AM

For someone whose main trait(?) is her compassion, Elena sure has no problem being an asshole to Damon at every turn. He did absolutely nothing wrong but try and help her and all she can say is that she'd rather it be Stefan and doesn't want to be like Damon. Talk about another kick in the balls for the guy! I really feel sorry for the hardcore Damon and Elena shippers at this point. They are just getting dicked around and it's getting tiresome. It also seems like any character growth Damon and Elena both had in season three just disappeared. This is the fourth season, this so-called "triangle" should've had a shift in it a long time ago. But, no. We must keep stringing Damon along and have him pining for a girl (once again!) who will never love him the way he needs to be and should be loved.
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#613

paupers

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Posted Nov 3, 2012 @ 11:36 AM

This is the fourth season, this so-called "triangle" should've had a shift in it a long time ago.

Totally agree with this, the Damon/Elena relationship has been delayed a season too long now. I loved the seasom 1, still in season 2 and it's been dwindling ever since. I enjoy their scenes but watching them get together - if they even do - will lack the same emotional payoff for me when it happens. Elena's physically attracted to him but I don't think Elena still really sees Damon as a viable boyfriend material, and if it takes so long for her to want to want him then it's too much. Damon meanwhile deserves to be with someone who's going to want to be with him without so much convincing.
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#614

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Posted Nov 4, 2012 @ 7:01 PM

Elena's physically attracted to him but I don't think Elena still really sees Damon as a viable boyfriend material, and if it takes so long for her to want to want him then it's too much. Damon meanwhile deserves to be with someone who's going to want to be with him without so much convincing.


I agree, the show has dragged this out longer than was necessary, assuming they ever intended Damon and Elena to make a go at it. The natural point last season for her to make a break with Stefan was when he threatened to run her off Wickery Bridge, as he was not compelled to do it, but did it anyway. If she still loves Stefan even after that, even after his ripper spree, I can't blame Damon for getting cyncial about the whole thing.

The only way I think this can be salvaged, if they're ever going to explore Damon/Elena as a real couple is to have her emotions shift to Damon naturally without Stefan necessarily screwing things up. Last season she said her reason for not choosing Damon is that she never "un-fell" in love with Stefan. I think she loved Damon as she was saying this, but felt she couldn't break with her first relationship out of some bizarre loyalty.

As a fan, it won't make it satisfying if the only reason Elena gets with Damon is because she wants to be a bad girl now (we already have Katherine in the show, we don't need a Katherine redux). I wonder if they're going to set up a parallel scenario this season where Elena needs to choose between the two of them and without thinking chooses Damon.
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#615

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Posted Nov 4, 2012 @ 9:25 PM

I thought the most interesting thing about this week's episode was how Damon didn't lash out. He helps Elena, he stops her from killing, they have FUN, and then when she sees Bonnie and lurches into a hypocritical breakdown? Damon reacts in the most subdued manner. Sure he gets a little wild-eyed at Bonnie, but everything he said was also true. And then he gets the car and they drive home, and then he is perfectly willing to leave her at her door without discussion. She's the one who presses the point.

Given that in previous seasons he would have either started a fight or tried to eye-thing her on the porch, I found that pretty telling. He said he wouldn't lash out. And even after her choice, he's not lashing out. Which means that the only person who acted badly and immaturely and insultingly that evening was Elena, and they both know it.

I really liked that. He's stopped chasing so hard and she'll have to adjust.
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#616

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Posted Nov 5, 2012 @ 1:30 AM

Given that in previous seasons he would have either started a fight or tried to eye-thing her on the porch, I found that pretty telling. He said he wouldn't lash out. And even after her choice, he's not lashing out. Which means that the only person who acted badly and immaturely and insultingly that evening was Elena, and they both know it.


Interesting observation. I was just rewatching a scene from last season where Elena laments that Damon lashes out every time there's a bump in the road, and he counters with "What if there was no bump?" So the fact that in the most recent episode he is pointedly *not* lashing out may be a subtle message to Elena that she may have underestimated him.
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#617

katsullivan

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Posted Nov 5, 2012 @ 2:48 AM

In a previous season, Damon would have probably snapped Bonnie's neck... or killed some co-ed in front of them.
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#618

winter bird

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Posted Nov 7, 2012 @ 4:38 PM

Limber - Good catch about Damon not lashing out. I am a little ashamed of myself for not really paying attention to that, considering I pride myself on being a big Damon fan, LOL. I wonder if Elena will start to notice little things like that. No matter how hard she tries to deny it, he is not the same person he was when he first came back to MF.
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#619

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Posted Nov 10, 2012 @ 7:13 PM

I am not a couples fan except for Stefan and Damon's messy,complicated and deep brotherly bond and Stefan/Katherine,whom I adore together!

But I gave Damon/Elena a go because of the hype from my buddy, who loves them, and watched their scenes.

Damon has a deep masochistic flavour in his interactions with Elena. It almost reminds me of Spike/Buffy. Here's a guy wearing his heart and soul on his sleeve for a girl. Here's the girl not giving any kinds of damn and using the guy when it's appropriate to do so. Once Elena gets what she wants and needs from Damon,it's "I'll holla,shawty" and she goes right back to Stefan. Frankly,Damon is her bitch and it shows. I am starting to wonder if Damon requires intensive therapy to explain why he is AGAIN in love with a girl who loves his brother more. But then,I can't put the blame all on him. Elena sends mixed signals. Saying she loves Stefan but performing optical intercourse and bursting with lust every time she sees Damon would tend to make Damon believe that he can have her.

I do not for one moment believe Elena is in love with Damon. She loves him and obviously wants to shag him like a mad bunny. Their sexual chemistry is off the charts. But being in love and loving are two different things. For Damon and Elena to work,it means that somebody has to change. Elena cannot be the amoral shades of gray type Damon is. Damon cannot be a Stefan. Elena would also have to fall in love with him. I don't think she ever will. Steffy done put the wham bammy on her,just like he did for Katherine. Even during season 3,with all the "epic" Damon/Elena moments my friend forced me to watch and her orgasmic cries of Delena glee,I saw nothing but a girl using one brother to replace the one she lost. Damon tried with all he had and Elena responded to some of his efforts. But Stefan was never out of the picture,unlike when I watch Stefan/Elena scenes and Elena doesn't think about Damon at all. As soon as Stefan stopped being full of the cray-cray, Elena hauled ass in getting back to him. About the only moment I enjoyed was the ridiculous retcon bone that TVD tossed to the Damon/Elena fanbase of Damon meeting Elena first,and out of pure and real love for Kat's crazy ass,threw away his chance at that very same emotion. Poetic irony,that was.

This triangle has been dragged to the point of no return. [snip] I don't believe the show intends to give Damon/Elena a real chance. I fully expect TVD to use that relationship as angst for Stefan/Elena and Damon/Stefan,the two real relationships of TVD. I believe the show will give morsels here and there to Damon/Elena fans,but nothing of substance.

Edited by TWoP Howard, Nov 11, 2012 @ 7:58 PM.
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#620

billibee

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Posted Nov 26, 2012 @ 10:16 PM

I do not for one moment believe Elena is in love with Damon. She loves him and obviously wants to shag him like a mad bunny. Their sexual chemistry is off the charts. But being in love and loving are two different things. For Damon and Elena to work,it means that somebody has to change. Elena cannot be the amoral shades of gray type Damon is. Damon cannot be a Stefan. Elena would also have to fall in love with him. I don't think she ever will. Steffy done put the wham bammy on her,just like he did for Katherine.


I think Elena can't be in love with Damon yet. She still had too big a piece of her heart tethered to Stefan to fully give in before. This current break up is unlike any break up they have ever had. The other ones were break ups because there was an outside force tearing them appart. Damon, or no Damon, these two just couldn't work while she's a vamp. But this isn't about Stelena.

I hope these two will get the same chance Stelena did to actually fall in love. Without the guilt. My wish is that the writers take their time. Otherwise, we will have to witness just a couple of people in lust. I really think there is potential for more and it makes a more dynamic story if they actually fall in love. It can look different than what she had with Stefan and still be love. Damon has been alive more than 150 years; doesn't he get to be truly in love once in all that time?
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#621

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Posted Nov 26, 2012 @ 10:31 PM

I think Elena can't be in love with Damon yet. She still had too big a piece of her heart tethered to Stefan to fully give in before. This current break up is unlike any break up they have ever had. The other ones were break ups because there was an outside force tearing them appart. Damon, or no Damon, these two just couldn't work while she's a vamp. But this isn't about Stelena.

I hope these two will get the same chance Stelena did to actually fall in love. Without the guilt. My wish is that the writers take their time. Otherwise, we will have to witness just a couple of people in lust. I really think there is potential for more and it makes a more dynamic story if they actually fall in love. It can look different than what she had with Stefan and still be love. Damon has been alive more than 150 years; doesn't he get to be truly in love once in all that time?


Great post, billibee. I agree that for Delena to work as part of the narrative, they need to take the time to let them fall in love for real, on their own terms, based on where they are now. I think they're well on their way, but I wouldn't want to see Elena hooking up with Damon next episode. I could easily imagine Damon putting the breaks on things to start because why would he want to risk his relationship with Stefan if Elena isn't 100% committed. I'm sure it still stings that phone call he got where he was on death's door and she chose Stefan - that whatever supposed feelings she had for him weren't enough. A few episodes ago, she kept lamenting that she doesn't want to be like Damon as a vampire. He has no doubts that she has the hots for him, but I think it'll take more on Elena's part to prove that he's not just a rebound guy, and that she won't drop him for Stefan the next minute he comes calling.

For all Damon's faults, he has grown so much since his show beginnings in Season 1, and he does deserve someone to return his affections.
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#622

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Posted Nov 30, 2012 @ 11:43 AM

I could easily imagine Damon putting the breaks on things to start because why would he want to risk his relationship with Stefan if Elena isn't 100% committed. I'm sure it still stings that phone call he got where he was on death's door and she chose Stefan - that whatever supposed feelings she had for him weren't enough. A few episodes ago, she kept lamenting that she doesn't want to be like Damon as a vampire. He has no doubts that she has the hots for him, but I think it'll take more on Elena's part to prove that he's not just a rebound guy, and that she won't drop him for Stefan the next minute he comes calling.


Well, apparently Damon doesn't share these concerns.


On another note: There's been some talk in the episode thread about the "I wanted it to be real" conversation and how sad it is for Damon that it might not turn out to be real after all. Which I agree with, the whole sire-bond thing is a huge cop out. On the other hand, I have absolutely no respect for Elena if she really threw Stefan out of his house so she could jump his brother, one episode after they broke up.

Now, this has nothing to do with this episode, this is just because I wasn't around here when Season 1 aired:
The whole "I wanted it to be real" thing got me thinking: When I watched that episode (waaaay back), I thought this was very ambiguously set up, on the one hand it was a sincere statement that foreshadowed Damon's deeper feelings for Elena but I also thought that it was cleverly contrasted with everything that happened in that episode.

Damon did not compel Elena, that is true - but the experience still wasn't entirely "real". He only let her see the fun side of him, and then the protective one when he fought Lexi's boyfriend. He did NOT let her see him crushing Bree's heart out of revenge, out of spite because she'd betrayed him, he did not let her see the dark side of him. I did feel that this meant he was starting to have feelings for her - after all, why else would he care that Elena didn't see him murder a woman? But I thought it was nicely contrasted with his expression of desiring the experience to be real. Because, yes, he was capable of being nice and sweet with her, a fun companion on her roadtrip. But on the other hand, still a completely unrepentant killer.

Now, a lot has happened since then, but back then I thought this episode really underlined the complexity of Damon's character. But I never actually thought the whole thing was very romantic.

Edited by KatWay, Nov 30, 2012 @ 4:13 PM.

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#623

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Posted Nov 30, 2012 @ 12:14 PM

Well, apparently Damon doesn't share these concerns.

Maybe because Elena came to him and told him he was the reason they broke up. That makes him decidedly not a rebound guy. I think it would have been good if he had held off for his brothers sake, and he tried last week to turn it around to Stefan with Elena, he tried this week to go bar hopping with Stefan but was rebuffed. But I can understand how after so, so long, loving Elena and watching from afar, after they kissed in that motel last year and then she ran back to Stefan, I can understand why, when she came at him - because she initiated this - he didn't resist.

But I never actually thought the whole thing was very romantic.

I never thought it was meant to be romantic, really. It was so early in the Damon/Elena thing and there was no chance she was going to be with Elena at that point. The I wanted it to be real moment was just an insight into Damon's character. He's not Klaus - he has no interest in being friends with Elena or romantically involved with her as a result of compulsion. For good or for ill, he wants emotions to be real. Now, several years later, I hope somebody remembers.
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#624

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Posted Nov 30, 2012 @ 3:48 PM

Okay, I'm not a Delena fan, but I admit this siring thing is a BIG cop out. Last season, Elena chose to be with Stefan when she thought they were both dying, in the season premerie, she says as she thinks she is about to die, that going back to Stefan was the best thing she ever did. I can see the consistency in these actions while accepting that right now she and Stefan cannot be together because as a vampire Elena is a better fit with Damon, and wanting to fully explore her relationship with Damon. As a vampire Elena needs different things from a relationship than she did as a human. But rather than say that, and give Delena a CHANCE, they pull this sire bond crap. So it's not really Elena's choice. They don't even try to explore how human Elena needed a different things than vampire Elena would. If this site bond thing is real, I feel so bad for Damon right now.

Also, I think Damon deserves better. When Elena thought they were dying, she choose to give Stefan the joy of her presence. (Gag) Why should Damon want her NOW when she chose him because she feels he's a better fit for her as a vampire? I would love for him to connect this to his feelings or Katherine, how he waited 140yrs to rescue her and she wasn't there. "Waiting" seems to be Damon's thing.

The thing that is saving Elena and Damon for me right now is the fact that she and Stefan WERE officially broken up before she and Damon became intimate.

Edited by scarlett45, Nov 30, 2012 @ 4:32 PM.

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#625

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Posted Nov 30, 2012 @ 8:47 PM

It just occurred to me that the only way for Delena to have a shot was for Elena to die, not because Damon is right for "Elena the vampire" and Stefan is right for "Elena the human" but if memory serves, Damon was about to be killed by possessed!Alaric and the only thing that saved him was Elena drowning, thus severing the magic bond that the witches had on Alaric. So, in a weird way, fate made this possible, because if Elena had lived, Damon would have most likely died that night, and she would have never have had the opportunity to reassess her choice.

That night, I think Elena was deeply torn. In my opinion, she chose Stefan partly out of loyalty, but also out of fear about whether she and Damon would really "work" as a couple or would he disappoint her.

In the past few episodes, Stefan has lied to her, basically made her feel "defective"/needing to be "fixed", risked her brother's life on multiple occasions (supposedly to "cure" her). Damon, while angry that she "died" accepted the reality of her new existence. He knows that baby vamps are moody and mess up, so he's shown her an amazing amount of patience, even when she was freaking out after the frat party and essentially insulting him. He tells her what Stefan's up to. She can be honest with him, and he'll be practical about finding a way forward for her. I think what doomed Stefan and Elena at present was that the trust was gone - Elena still cares for Stefan but you can't have intimacy without trust. Damon has come a long way from the loose canon that snapped Jeremy's neck in a hurt rage in Season 2, and Elena knows it. His acceptance and unwavering affection were exactly what she needed when she was feeling very depressed about being such a failure as a newbie vamp. I think Damon, and the feelings they share, gave her hope that things will be ok/get better in a way that Stefan really hasn't.

And let's be real, she's had a bit of a crush on him since Season 1 - look at how she recalls the Miss Mystic Falls dance? It clearly wasn't 100% platonic, although she was still was committed to Stefan at the time. She felt enough for Damon in Season 2 to kiss him on his "death bed", and admit she likes the "morally ambiguous" Damon just as he is. And, if Jeremy had not been there the night of the motel kiss, I'm sure Delena would have "happened" right then and there.

I kind of love that Elena just "went" for it with Damon...she's died (multiple times already); she's not with Stefan; what more is there to fear about giving into her feelings?

I sincerely hope they don't go the "sired" route with these two - but I don't think it really matters one way or the other. She initiated things going to the next level. These feelings were there when she was human. I just hope that these two get another "moment" where there's no speculation about either of their motivations.

Edited by Sedruol, Nov 30, 2012 @ 8:54 PM.

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#626

scarlett45

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Posted Dec 1, 2012 @ 10:23 AM

I like a lot of your points.

I think Elena has had sexual feelings for Damon for awhile, but Stefan was her boyfriend, she loved him, they had a REALATIONSHIP, I don't blame her for choosing Stefan in his dying moments. Also, I think Stefan was right when he said that he would always love Elena but.....I don't think Stefan cam be in a relationship with Elena because if his own issues, but Damon can.

I want to see if Damon and Elena can have a relationship, a real one, before people start judging who's the best brother for her. Being in a relationship with someone is very different than sexing like bunnies.
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#627

BloodyCharity

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Posted Dec 1, 2012 @ 3:59 PM

I sincerely hope they don't go the "sired" route with these two - but I don't think it really matters one way or the other. She initiated things going to the next level. These feelings were there when she was human. I just hope that these two get another "moment" where there's no speculation about either of their motivations.


Spoiler


But yeah, she clearly initiated everything and it didn't look to me like it was a "let's get it over with and have some meaningless sex" kind of thing, or a "I'm mind-whammied to sex him up even though I wouldn't otherwise want to" case. I may have seen too many slow-motion Tumblr gifs, but there was hair caressing and laughing and trailing little kisses down his arm. You know, actual tenderness from her part as well.

There is bound to be a shift in the dynamic though, so taking that into account it might be a good thing actually that a wrench was thrown into the gears at this point - they'll have more time to assess the situation.
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#628

circelily

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Posted Dec 1, 2012 @ 4:49 PM

I put this in the Ep reaction, but it fits better here:

I think it was a mean trick of the show to splice the Delena consummation with the bile of Caroline convincing Stefan that sirebonding was in play. Those shippers waited 3+ years to have their longed-for climax tarnished. Especially when some of them extrapolated that Damon knew she was sired, although I can't think where they got that notion from, as I think there has been care to give evidence of the opposite throughout: "I wanted it to be real".

And, to its credit, the episode bent over backwards to debunk the notion that the Elena's desire was compelled on her by mirroring not one but the two of the most iconic romance steps - Mystic Falls dance and motel making out. Both occured when Elena was indisputably human, making this a continuation, not an aberration.

That sirebonding would be central to the season 4 plot, particularly Elena and Damon interaction, has been signalled from the first scene of 4.1, where it was stressed that Damon's blood turned her. Plus those pretty lacey promo portraits with the tag lines "Bound by Blood" and "Blood is Guilt."

The clever thing that sirebonding gives them is doubt. It's not that some feelings aren't real and some decisions aren't self-initiated but that it is impossible for Elena and Damon to be certain about which is which. But one way this could be played is that it forces Elena to get angry and explicit about self-actualisation in a way she's never addressed, because she never had cause to doubt her own agency.

Or it could be pants. But I think the writers have been braver and smarter this year so far, and might even grasp this as an opportunity to get layered character growth by foregrounding a barrier to fight against...

Edited by circelily, Dec 1, 2012 @ 4:52 PM.

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#629

Sedruol

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Posted Dec 1, 2012 @ 6:09 PM

I think it was a mean trick of the show to splice the Delena consummation with the bile of Caroline convincing Stefan that sirebonding was in play. Those shippers waited 3+ years to have their longed-for climax tarnished. Especially when some of them extrapolated that Damon knew she was sired, although I can't think where they got that notion from, as I think there has been care to give evidence of the opposite throughout: "I wanted it to be real".


I agree it was a mean trick of the show to cut that final scene that way - that's why I'm so happy that there are talented fan vids out there to "right the wrongs" so to speak. I posted this in the TVD Fanart & Vids thread, but I think it can go here as well:

For any of the Delena fans who felt cheated by the way they cut 4x07's final scene, you MUST check out this video. Hell, even if you're not a shipper, it's just a really well done video with a kick-ass song.
Delena - skyfall


The clever thing that sirebonding gives them is doubt. It's not that some feelings aren't real and some decisions aren't self-initiated but that it is impossible for Elena and Damon to be certain about which is which. But one way this could be played is that it forces Elena to get angry and explicit about self-actualisation in a way she's never addressed, because she never had cause to doubt her own agency.


Great observations! I guess what this sets up for us, hopefully, is somewhere down the line this season Delena will have a moment of reaffirmation that this wasn't just a fluke, Elena is not out of her mind, there is something she has with Damon that is undeniable. That does not lessen what she had with Stefan, but it hopefully establishes that Damon is not just a hookup, a rebound from a Stefan breakup, a dalliance with a "bad boy". Even if she doesn't end the series still with Damon, I want whatever time they explore this relationship to always be "real".

And not to mention, Elena still hasn't told Damon that she loves him, so I'm expecting at some point that to be a "thing". (this is after all, a CW show) ;-)
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#630

katierose295

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Posted Dec 1, 2012 @ 7:35 PM

If this sire bond was the idea from the beginning of the season, I don't know why they didn't go with the idea that Elena could only drink Damon's blood. That would seem like better foreshadowing to me. Instead, she couldn't keep his blood down either and the "Ah-Ha!" moment revolved around a dress color. It seems like a weird choice.
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