189 replies to this topic

[sunshine]

I didn't see a topic for these two workaholic kindred spirits.

Taken from "The Beautiful Girls" thread by ddynphx24

The last two episodes have been very good, as is every mad men episode, but I don't know. Coming off of "The Suitcase", the best episode of the series, I think I'm still having withdrawal symptoms. I guess I have a few problems....

Where is the new dynamic of Don and Peggy? I'm not expecting hand holding or soulful looks, but I would like SOMETHING, something that says their relationship is different. If you watched the last two episodes, as we all have, you wouldn't think at all that something monumental occurred between these two amazing characters. I don't know, how about Don and Peggy just going to lunch together talking about a client, or the office politics, or life....give me proof positive that "The Suitcase" wasn't a dream I had and that it actually aired to the masses.

I was hoping for some response on this quote. I feel as if nothing much has changed from their interactions in episodes 8 and 9. Should something change? Will it take tragedy? Or am i missing something? thoughts?

[mswyrr]

This thread! :D What a great idea. Love the title.

I feel as if nothing much has changed from their interactions in episodes 8 and 9. Should something change? Will it take tragedy? Or am i missing something? thoughts?

I'd like to see more, but considering how hard Don was being on her in the early episodes of s4, I think there has been a distinct change. His mentoring of her in 408 was good stuff. And the way he explained what he considers the facts of business to Peggy over Fillmore's racist hiring practices was decent compared to what he might have done.

It's not much, admittedly, but I think that's believable. No matter what bond they have, he still thinks that it's her job to work through lunch and get fobbed off by him when he wants a post-shag nap. He still thinks that the money is how to say "thank you" and that letting her continue working at SCDP and being in her corner on things like the Joey situation is doing his part.

I'd love so much to see more. But I don't think there's nothing, exactly. Just... that people really don't change that much. And they're busy people. And they don't want to add fuel to the rumors about them, maybe.

One thing that I find particularly interesting is the way Don has admitted that he projects himself on to Peggy and how that connects up with how his better treatment of himself in The Summer Man and onward coincides with improved treatment of Peggy.

I think that's one of the most simultaneously fascinating and disturbing parts of their relationship. It's really not good to treat another person like that, yet it's been helpful to Peggy and him both.

Another aspect of things is that I think they're both rather private people when they're not in a dire situation. I keep thinking of the exchange in The Suitcase where Don says "we talk about things" and Peggy replies "No. We don't. I think you like it that way. I know I do."

I could see it taking another major event for them to have anything near the kind of intimacy we saw in The Suitcase. Don seems to reserve all his day-to-day intimacies for whomever he's having an affair with at the moment, and non-sexual relationships like the one he had with Anna and what he has with Peggy are on the shelf until dire emergency.

If Peggy and Don ever started sleeping together, I think we'd get to see them being like they were in the Suitcase a lot more, but I also think that could destabilize their relationship as it exists. At this point, I'd prefer to see that explored that in fanfic, rather than canon. And maybe far down the road in canon. I don't know. Depends on where things go this season.

ddynphx24's suggestions about them having a lunch now and then, going over office stuff, would be cool. And completely believable even for private people, since they'd be talking about the job, which is the non-private thing they both love best, and they could use each other for a sounding board.

It's possible that Don is turning to his new relationship with Faye as a replacement for his addiction to alcohol -- it's interesting that he behaves the same way toward her that he did with booze. Overindulging during lunch and then taking a nap in his office. And maybe we're meant to think that him having a replacement obsession/crutch is why he's focused on that relationship singlemindedly and not seeking out Peggy or even Roger. I honestly think the guy does have an addictive personality.

Edited by mswyrr, Sep 22, 2010 @ 10:25 PM.

[ddynphx24]

I'd love so much to see more. But I don't think there's nothing, exactly. Just... that people really don't change that much. And they're busy people. And they don't want to add fuel to the rumors about them, maybe.

Sunshine, this is an amazing thread and I agree that the title is spectacular. How is it possible that this thread never existed?!

Thank you for the quote, I'm honored to help get the ball rolling - "you know, if you're gonna quote the research, don't start with did you know"...lol

Sadly, people really don't change, but for these characters I think that might not hold true. Remember we are on the precipice of a cultural revolution, and I think it will be so interesting to see how these two split-aparts navigate those waters - - - whether they sink or swim....

What Matthew Weiner has created in this dynamic pairing, is something so special it transcends the "will they or won't they" mentality. To me, their intimacy is apparent in moments that have far greater significance than a tearing off of the clothes (although...) - - - his hand squeezing hers, the "I'll spend the rest of my life trying to hire you" line...what I find so very fascinating is that I believe they are IN love, but it's the kind of love neither has ever experienced - so much so that they are unaware of its very existence, even when right in front of them....

I believe we will see some revisitation of this dynamic before season's end - it's the heart of the show and MW has been so forthright in saying that they do love each other, it's not even up for debate....

We shall see as they say, but in my heart they will never love anyone the way they love each other

Edited by ddynphx24, Sep 22, 2010 @ 10:37 PM.

[WaltzinSpringTm]

My view - Matt Weiner's "couples" in this show are Peggy/Don, Joan/Roger and also Pete/Trudy. I don't know if all three were intended from the start but I feel as the chemistry has shaken down (and Weiner is lucky with chemistry on this show) that's where he is. He's not going to sew them up because the show has a couple of seasons left, unless they pull a Sopranos and go on for another six or so. Still, these next couple of seasons - he needs story, he needs the journey, and signalling Don/Peggy now is too early. She's got a few love interests to go, so does he. I read how Don Draper is based on an ad man who has "Draper" as a first name, a guy who married twice. I really doubt Weiner is literally modelng Don Draper on ... Draper Daniels, but I imagine Weiner has Peggy as end game. She has to thoroughly grow up (be a bit closer to 30). And then, depending on whether Weiner wants to go dark or not, he'll sew it up for his couples, or screw them over. :)

In the Beautiful Girls episode I felt that Weiiner placeheld" Peggy and Don in two ways. One, by a pretty gratuitous "moment" between Peggy and Sally when Peggy said "Don't come out of there!" and Sally hollered back "I know" (the actress playing Sally has said she thinks Elisabeth Moss is "crazy talented" or "insanely talented" and would love to have scenes with her, so I think that moment was a nod to the actress's wish and also to show Peggy kind of mirroring Don's handling of Sally). The second way was when Stan and Ken were ragging on Don in the conference room. Peggy was smilng and nodding, but it had a marked "go along to get along" feel to it, IMO. She wasn't comfortable ragging on Don but she played along, even though her heart wasn't in it. I thought Elisabeth Moss made that pretty clear.

I hope Weiner doesn't sell her out, if Peggy/Don IS end game. He sold Faye out. If Betty starts pining I'll be super pissed. I was not incredibly excited when Don re-approached Peggy about joining SCDP and she quavered "If say no - you'll never speak to me again." Oh the deprivation!

I like Peggy/Don first and foremost because the chemistry is awesome. It almost always comes down to that for me. But secondly, because Peggy is really not going to compromise her drive for Don, for a bf, for anything. If she were a guy, I honestly think how she is would be taken for granted, unremarkable. In a woman, it's like she's Joan of Arc. Yet I think there are quite a few women like Peggy, who have succeeded. Where she compromised - such as sticking around the night of The Suitcase - I felt had as much to do with her ambivalence about her relationship with her bf as with her loyalty to Don. If an Abe who did NOT see women's rights as trivial compared to women's rights was waiting for her in that restaurant, she would have been so out of there. She and Don have a big connection. But Betty doesn't really lose herself in that connection. As long as she doesn't, I'm for them.

Edited by WaltzinSpringTm, Sep 22, 2010 @ 11:43 PM.

[sunshine]

What Matthew Weiner has created in this dynamic pairing, is something so special it transcends the "will they or won't they" mentality. To me, their intimacy is apparent in moments that have far greater significance than a tearing off of the clothes

I believe we will see some revisitation of this dynamic before season's end - it's the heart of the show and MW has been so forthright in saying that they do love each other, it's not even up for debate

I know logically this is true, but I still want them together romantically. Maybe that's too much diet of network TV. Added to the fact that this show takes places in the 1960's--how can Don and Peggy have acceptable intimacy if they don't ultimately get together?

i really hope for a true callback to the "The Suitecase" that is self-aware, especially from Don's end. The end of the season something big usually happens, I wonder what?

As for sex, I'd love for MW to show a real, honest, awkward, yet hot sexual encounter between the two at one point. Part of the reason I wish this show was on HBO. AMC has to be more suggestive. Of course, we do have Bobby Barrett and Bethany? Hmm...

[mswyrr]

I've recently rewatched 3x13, and I think that it's interesting as a comparison to The Suitcase. In both episodes, it seems like Peggy and Don have things out and turn over a new leaf in their relationship. And, I think, in both cases subsequent episodes prove that the improvements were momentary and subject to change.

In particular, it struck me how, when rejecting Don's first presumptuous offer, Peggy told him "I don't want to make a career out of being there so you can kick me when you fail."

By the end of the episode, after he's made her that second, heartfelt offer--with his confession that he's been unfairly hard on her because he "sees [her] as and extension of [himself]"--it seems like he's not going to pull that shit anymore.

But then season 4 starts, and it's a year later and he's treating her like crap because he feels like crap, lashing out at her as part of his downward spiral. Kicking her not because he's failed professionally, but because his personal life is a mess.

People get into patterns, and they're easy to fall back into. I'm not saying that change can't occur, but that the things that created the initial pattern never entirely go away, so improvement can be an uneven, messy affair. And it requires constant work to maintain.

I'm hoping that the positive stuff from The Suitcase continues and that they even go further. But I doubt things will be a straight shot upward... more of a jagged, fits and starts sort of thing. And part of the time that might include digressing, but I don't think Weiner wants to tell the story of their relationship falling apart, so I think the push and pull between them will continue, making each of them better.

[WaltzinSpringTm]

I love Peggy - she is so bad ass. I don't have all THAT much faith in Matthew Weiner and I suspect he writes her this way because he loves the actress, and in his view of the show she's special to Don. Still, I think/hope their journey means they end up together romantcally. The end of this season would be a bit soon - she'd be one of, as Elisabeth Moss says, the 57 women he's slept with, for one, and for two, Don's sex partners are big plot points and hooking them up now - especially if she's "end game" would close off a lot of story.

Don is pretty rough on everybody. Sometimes when he's rough on Peggy the "extension of myself" thing is pretty apparent - he's trying to turn her into a mini-me professionally - which is a little arrogant as I think in many ways, she's got better instincts and more game than Don. And she's younger and willing to consider things such as "why do we have bigots as clients"? Don is all "It's BUSINESS" - but he's going to fnd out that social issues are going to come into play in business pretty soon.

Since I've been reading about Mary Wells, who founded her own agency in 1966 and was the highest paid executive in advertising in 1968 (she's still alive), I'd love it if the fact that a woman is running her own super successful shop comes into play in the season ahead, and informs Peggy's approach to her job.

[ddynphx24]

Don's sex partners are big plot points and hooking them up now - especially if she's "end game" would close off a lot of story.

I agree, as much as I want them together....what I DO NOT WANT, IS TO SEE PEGGY GET USED !!!! Not on my fuckin' watch....And even knowing Don is a cad, I couldn't see him hurting her like that..maybe I'm naive...but she is the ONE...the one you retire your golden condom for, at least she is for Don....

[mswyrr]

My personal fantasy of a good ending for them is that they get together when the sexual revolution is already well underway and, thanks to there being more information on alternate lifestyles floating around, they both discover that they're happy being some version of ethically poly together.

I guess I just don't believe that people change that much. Or that change is really necessary for happiness, when maybe it's the system(s) (like compulsory monogamy) that need to adapt to the people, and not vice versa.

Part of my preference for this scenario, I admit, is that I like the idea of Peggy being with both Don and Joyce. ;)

Edited by mswyrr, Sep 24, 2010 @ 5:34 AM.

[DavidLloyd]

I wonder if Don thinks that Duck is the father of Peggy's baby. When Don and Peggy were at the bar listening to the Ali fight, he asked her if she knew who the father was, and Peggy confirmed that she did. Don didn't ask anything else, and Peggy didn't volunteer anything else. But later that night, Peggy revealed to him that she and Duck had an affair. Actually, it was Duck who blurted it out. Regardless, I wonder if Don is under the impression that Duck could be the father.

[Sister Magpie]

Hmm...my guess is no, he doesn't think that, because Peggy had her baby before Duck came onboard, didn't she?

[DavidLloyd]

Don is pretty rough on everybody. Sometimes when he's rough on Peggy the "extension of myself" thing is pretty apparent - he's trying to turn her into a mini-me professionally - which is a little arrogant as I think in many ways, she's got better instincts and more game than Don. And she's younger and willing to consider things such as "why do we have bigots as clients"? Don is all "It's BUSINESS" - but he's going to fnd out that social issues are going to come into play in business pretty soon.

Good points. I would add that he needs her professionally. Most of SCDP's clients sell products that (1) women purchase or (2) women influence the purchasing of. Obviously, Peggy brings tremendous insight in this area, and Don realizes that.

BTW, I thought Duck's business plan of hiring Peggy and launching an ad firm that focused solely on women's products was a good strategy. Of course, the firm would have failed, mainly due to Duck.

[Sister Magpie]

Don is all "It's BUSINESS" - but he's going to fnd out that social issues are going to come into play in business pretty soon.

To be fair, that was Peggy's view too, until she'd thought about it. Both Don and Peggy love their work and seem to see it as an artform in itself. It's not about personal endorsement of the product, it's about coming up with the ad. On one hand they're wrong in thinking they can just keep themselves out of it (as Don especially seems to really want to do). Otoh, it does seem like the basic rule of advertising will always be about selling a product, period. It's like being a defense attorney. If you don't ever want to defend guilty people you can't really have the job.

I mean, their biggest client is Lucky Strikes. Few corporations have gotten a worse reputation as a bad guy as Big Tobacco. They don't live at that time, but when shown evidence that smoking was harmful they didn't question whether they should be trying to sell them, they just tried to work around that challenge.

Don did hire Pete and Peggy to look to the future, though, so they might give him a heads up.

I found that boardroom scene really interesting. The way I see it, one of the ways Don and Peggy are similar is they both see themselves as outsiders. Don I think believes that he's somebody who gives outsiders a chance based on talent--but not to the point where he really questions the prejudices of his time. It's like the conversation he had with Suzanne's brother. Don started to give him the bootstrap speech about having a chance--much as Peggy said black copywriters could fight their way in like she did--and he was brought up short when the guy forced him to acknowledges the advantages he had (when he'd always focused on what he didn't have). In that case, Don wasn't disabled. The guy was pointing out that he couldn't educate or bluff his way out of epilepsy and the reactions people had to it, just as Don couldn't have educated or bluffed his way into his position the way he did if he was black or a woman.

So it seems like Don does have a somewhat unique perspective on marginalized groups--not one that's uniquely progressive, but not one that's uniquely hostile either. He seems to want to put talent over identity, but falls short of that by not considering all these marginalized groups. But perhaps more importantly, it seems like he's expressly trying to change with the world. So what I'm saying is I think his reaction to Peggy's dawning political questions might not simply be a cliche of him being the old prejudiced guy and her being the young idealist. He wants to stay with the times and is willing to use other people as barometers of that change if he doesn't feel totally on top of it himself. His bigotry seems at this point mostly passive and unthinking. It's a slightly different position than having been brought up in the inner circle keeping people out.

[mswyrr]

I think there's a massive difference between the immoral aspects of selling cigarettes and working for a company that is participating openly in the systemic oppression of African Americans. Big Tobacco is trying to make money off the addiction of customers. They're killing people in an equal opportunity sort of way, and not trying to do much of anything else. Their only ideology is greed and self interest. Fillmore, on the other hand, has hiring practices that arise out of the pernicious ideology of white supremacy. They want to support the continued subordination of part of the human race because of their melanin content. That's just... so much worse. Trying to convince people to do something that will increase their risk of lung cancer and heart disease is not the same as working with a company whose ideology is the kind of thing that produced lynching.

I think that Peggy is not wrong to come to question what Fillmore is doing. It's beyond the area of moral compromise Lucky Strike represents. And while I understand why Don wouldn't see that, I really hope that he gets hip to it. At the very least, I hope he gets what a stupid business move it is to be in bed with blatant white supremacists.

Edited by mswyrr, Sep 25, 2010 @ 11:10 PM.

[Justine2003]

To answer the question posed in this thread title: I say workmates.

They're both really secretive/guarded and have tons in common. They do have some kinship, but I see "soulmate" as a romantic word, and I don't ever want to see Don and Peggy in a romance. I think it would be wrong on so many levels. He's her mentor. Yes, there are situations where a mentor and protegee can fall in love. It happens sometimes with professors and students IRL, and it can happen in supervisor/employee work situations too. But in Don and Peggy's case, it seems wrong and just the thought of it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. It seems almost incestuous, and I'm not saying that Don has been "fatherly" towards her (and I know he's not all that much older - maybe 13-15 years...), but I still get more of that vibe from their past associations than anything that could be construed as romantic.

I don't see it that Matt Weiner intended for Don and Peggy to become a romantic couple, although of course I have no idea of his true intentions. But I really do hope that the show never "goes there," the same way that I wouldn't want it to happen with Pete and Peggy ever again.

[Pallas429]

I think it's possible that a Don/Peggy romance was prefigured in "The Suitcase", in the diner scene. This is paraphrased, but....

Don and Peggy are talking about work (what else?), and Peggy notes that she is having a hard time telling a bad idea from a great one. Don says, "They're very close...You just bang and bang your head against the wall, but when it's right, you know." Peggy smiles and the camera pulls back, to show them both in profile, in concord. Don reaches over to steal one of her French fries.

[ddynphx24]

So, for the last three weeks I've been trying to put my finger on what has been bothering me about "Mad Men". I thought about it for a while and it finally dawned on me - - - after watching the Don/Peggy dynamic for almost four seasons, and watching "The Suitcase" over a dozen times - if Don and Peggy aren't going to be together, I don't want them with anybody.

I've watched this quasi relationship with Abe and Faye and it's not working, in fact it's actually bothering me to the point that I become physically uncomfortable while watching. I find Abe to be a self-important pretentious jackass, full of himself and in love with his own words. And Faye? Please. Enough...

Don and Peggy will never have an emotional bond with anyone, the way they do with each other. All other relationships, or pseudo-relationships just ring hollow in comparison - I just can't buy it.

When Faye said, "it's me" meaning Don could open up to her during his panic attack - - - I could taste the bile in my mouth. That's a line that's up there in the pantheon of historic duo's, as an emotional shorthand, a line said most perfectly through the conduit of Mulder and Scully. Regardless, on this show if ever attempted - and it probably shouldn't be - the only two that would ever give it resonance or breath, would be Don and Peggy.

The plotlines are great and I love how after "Hands and Knees", we are unsure of what will happen with the agency as all is in flux, but watching Don and Peggy attempt to navigate deep emotional waters with someone else, is a difficult rubicon for me to cross. I'm done in that respect. Matthew Weiner created this monster, and like Kirsten Dunst in "Interview with the Vampire", now that I've had a taste - - - "I want some more".

Edited by ddynphx24, Sep 27, 2010 @ 10:14 AM.

[bosawks]

I, admittedly, have no faith in Don being anyone’s happily ever after, especially Dick Whitman’s. But if there is one person who he acknowledges beyond what’s best for the façade it would be Peggy. So I could accept an ending that had them together as long as it was presented in a way that their happiness was not dependent upon being a couple.

[Justine2003]

Evilida--I agree about them being too alike. Sometimes that's not a good thing. I work with someone who is very hyper/Type A, etc. His wife, who I have met a few times, seems really calm, laidback, and sweet. At first I was surprised she was with him but now it makes sense to me. If he wsa with someone too much like him, they'd drive each other crazy.

I think it's too early to say that Peggy will never have an emotional bond with anyone the way she will with Don. She's still very young and is just learning to experiment in her life, become more uninhibited, and open herself up. She's already changed a lot since first season in confidence/assertiveness. I'm not sure about Abe personally, but I'd like to see her with someone somewhat like him-- in her own age range. I liked seeing the camaraderie she had with Joey on the early episodes (before things went bad), and I liked the brief glimpse of her with Smitty last season (My Old Kentucky Home), when they shared a laugh about Paul and then he flirted with her a little bit. I think she was too high at the moment to really notice it, but I loved that scene. Not saying she has to be with Smitty or Joey (well, it won't be Joey...but I do like Smitty) -- but I like the idea of her being with someone young (just a couple years older than she is), who has some similarities with her (creativity, intelligence, work in the same field) but some differences too (guys like Smitty and joey are more uninhibited than Peggy is, and I think it would be good for her to be with someone like that!)

She and Don *do* share some connections for sure, and I think it's great that they have that. But as a romantic couple....? I think he would hold her back more than help her.

Edited by Justine2003, Sep 28, 2010 @ 12:57 PM.

[lska]

Before "The Suitcase," I would have said no, never. I'm not completely convinced now, but there is something sort of intriguing about watching them develop side-by-side as people. It's often said that people don't change, but I don't believe that. A complete personality change or redemption might be rare, but the world changes everyone in slow subtle ways. Don and Peggy are already different people than when they met. If they were ever to get together, it would be interesting if it didn't follow the standard TV trope of "the right person was under my nose all along," but was more about them eventually becoming compatible.

If it's revealed that he is sleeping with Faye, and if this thing with Megan goes somewhere, I think we could see some jealousy from Peggy sooner rather than later, though.

Edited by lska, Sep 28, 2010 @ 1:54 PM.

[Ashes of Roses]

If it's revealed that he is sleeping with Faye, and if this thing with Megan goes somewhere, I think we could see some jealousy from Peggy sooner rather than later, though.

No, Peggy didn't seem thrilled to learn that Don had slept with Allison and then Peggy heard his spiel about having rules against sleeping with women in the office. If he's not as out of control as he was before with the drinking, yet still romancing other women from work, will Peggy wonder if he was just lying to her about being "cute as hell" if he's up to seeing three women at SCDP within the past year and none of them were her? There doesn't seem to be an overt romantic interest in Don on Peggy's part, but she did like hearing that him say he thought she was attractive.

Peggy was no where to be found in the episode where Don faces the ultimate work/personal crisis of his past being exposed and ends up confiding the truth to a woman from work? Hmmmm...

[sunshine]

Peggy was no where to be found in the episode where Don faces the ultimate work/personal crisis of his past being exposed and ends up confiding the truth to a woman from work? Hmmmm...

I had a problem with this, especially after "The Suitcase". What is the point of Peggy and Don bonding in the way they did if it doesn't have pay-off for later episodes? Yes, this season has been very Peggy-centric (sometimes her character needs a Pete-type break), but she doesn't even have a cameo? Where was she during Don's panic at work? Hiding in her office?

I do think that telling Faye his true identity was the kiss of death of their relationship as Don is already distancing and staring at the Megan, but what is the point of "The Suitcase" then? There are 3 more episodes and I'm sure at least 2-3 more seasons, but I find it annoying that there has been no connection or even interesting scenes w/Don and Peggy post-Suitcase.

Edited by sunshine, Sep 28, 2010 @ 9:00 PM.

[Pallas429]

Of course, "Don and Peggy" are not the creators of their own fate, or even, the agents of their own bodies. It's not too surprising that Elisabeth Moss got a (delayed) week off after appearing in as many scenes as Jon Hamm in "The Suitcase." And then, it was time to at least briefly put the story focus elsewhere, before gearing up again for the penultimate weeks of the season.

And well beyond that: they are serving a story that will extend at least another season. Within Mad Men, Don is the protagonist and Peggy is the heroine. They are already paired as working partners, and more: as people whose fates have aligned. Where could they be shown to go from here -- right now, immediately after "The Suitcase" -- without hauling the balance of the story and the focus along with them?

[sunshine]

Within Mad Men, Don is the protagonist and Peggy is the heroine. They are already paired as working partners, and more: as people whose fates have aligned. Where could they be shown to go from here -- right now, immediately after "The Suitcase" -- without hauling the balance of the story and the focus along with them?

Ah, that strange pill called logic. Good analysis. I shall wait and put my faith in Matt Weiner's obvious love for these two characters, his "mirrors". I did notice in "The Beautiful Girls" how as Don took a drink from Faye's glass at the end of the episode, they segued to Peggy drinking in her office. It was like one continuous shot.

Edited by sunshine, Sep 29, 2010 @ 8:28 PM.

[DavidLloyd]

Don is traveling through life looking for a mother. Anna initially fulfilled that role. Peggy is now stepping into it.

[sometimes]

I see them as workmates. Peggy would never, ever say yes to Don's advances, not after how far she's come in terms of self-worth. She doesn't want to be a notch on his bedpost. She wants to get married, and I assume that includes being monogamous. Don is incapable of monogamy.

Furthermore, I think her main goal is to keep moving forward in her career; any romantic involvement with Don would just derail it.

I agree with DavidLloyd; what Anna was to Don, Peggy will become. It seemed to me that Anna's ghost in "The Suitcase" had traveled to check in that Don would be ok, and finding him asleep in Peggy's lap, she knew he was not alone in the world (the tarot reference), and that someone would take care of him.

[Derin]

Up until "The Suitcase" it never occurred to me that a possible pairing could take place in the future. However, now, I'm not so sure. Since "The Suitcase", Don has been less hard on her, is more understanding towards her and she is less bitter. Of course we haven't had many scenes to prove it otherwise but "The Suitcase" was like a manifestation of their ultimate emotional bond. There is one thing left to seal it for good: Don revealing his real identity to Peggy. I think she would give the same reaction as Faye though. And voila! Don could have another Anna!

"The Suitcase" enabled us to learn that Don finds Peggy "cute as hell" and that she actually resents "he has never shown any interest in her sexually" because she thinks he finds her not attractive enough. So, now we see that there's some sort of mutual attraction. OK. Matthew Weiner gave us that and I don't think that's with no reason. Btw, I remember Don saying Peggy resembled Irene Dunne, in the 1st season or 2. She wasn't necessarily a sex symbol like Marilyn or Rita, right? She was in a different category.

When Don rejected Peggy in the very first ep, I think the reason was a) he had the rule of "not screwing in the office" back then b)he really wasn't attracted to her. Therefore, he turned her down (only to hold the same hand 3 seasons later but in a totally different context). I don't know if anyone thought otherwise, but back then I didn't find Peggy much attractive either - at least not enough to tempt Don. (channeling Mr. Darcy here, lol) Well, as you know, he was into those older, stronger and independent brunettes especially up until this season, so yeah he hasn't considered Peggy as a "real woman", perhaps.

But Peggy has blossomed nicely. This season, she's more confident, more beautiful and more attractive than ever. Whenever Don tried to put her into her place, she didn't take it. Well, I know this sounds "Ugly Betty-esque" but it could be possible that Weiner is taking us into that direction. It's like he's been priming us up for the ultimate destiny through little steps. Though, I'm not sure if I'm ready for a love angle with Don and Peggy's relationship because it feels "cool" just the way it is now. A woman and a man, having a true friendship without the love angle in sight is so rare in the world of tv shows that I am really happy with the current situation. However, I also believe if Weiner is heading the story to that direction, I guess he'll do it in such a way that most of us won't be able to say "oh nooo! not them!". And Weiner will make sure it won't look like a cliche. If it happens it'll be meaningful and feel right to the viewers just like it will feel to them both. I'd never think I would say this but personally I see they have more chemistry this season than ever.

Edited by Derin, Oct 9, 2010 @ 1:45 PM.

[Ashes of Roses]

Btw, I remember Don saying Peggy resembled Irene Dunne, in the 1st season or 2. She wasn't necessarily a sex symbol like Marilyn or Rita, right? She was in a different category.

I thought it was Freddy Rumsen who made the Irene Dunne comment.

"The Suitcase" enabled us to learn that Don finds Peggy "cute as hell" and that she actually resents "he has never shown any interest in her sexually" because she thinks he finds her not attractive enough. So, now we see that there's some sort of mutual attraction. OK. Matthew Weiner gave us that and I don't think that's with no reason.

I agree with this, though it's possible Weiner was just to make a point that two people can find each other attractive without really having "that" kind of chemistry, and men and women can be just friends! I really don't think that's what the conversation was about, especially after Don Draper went on to sleep with two more women at SCDP after Allison. Particularly interesting was how the Megan seduction only really happened after Don had wanted to talk business with Peggy, but she'd already gone home, and Megan volunteered to help him instead. And she was dressed in a sort of skirt and blouse Peggy would wear, albeit in ultra-feminine colors, much different than her typical solid sheath dresses. I've been watching Season 3 on DVD this weekend and noticed that Allison seemed to have a different look before-fewer jumpers, plaids, and a little more stylish than she seemed in S4. I wonder if it's deliberate, having Don sleep with these women dressed like Peggy, and if it's foreshadowing something.

[misere]

Btw, I remember Don saying Peggy resembled Irene Dunne, in the 1st season or 2. She wasn't necessarily a sex symbol like Marilyn or Rita, right? She was in a different category.

I thought it was Freddy Rumsen who made the Irene Dunne comment.

Don says Irene Dunne, then Freddy says "Ohh, I love Irene Dunne" with a little nod.