110 replies to this topic

[Desafinado]

Thought these two should have a thread, since we may see some relevance in S4.

[CaitieUGA]

IDK about these two. A lot of the circumstances and characterization that gave them the tension that made them interesting in S1 -- the class difference, the whole Lonely Boy + It Girl thing, Dan putting Serena on a pedestal she wanted to stay on but ultimately couldn't -- all of that is over and done with. I'm just not seeing where the interest lies at this point. They could probably have a happy, healthy relationship, but that doesn't make for interesting TV.

[Tingeling]

Ultimately they broke up because they shared a brother, right? Scott will always be there (even if he's not on the show, thankfully) so I kind of took that as the definite ship sinking moment. I have a hard time thinking these two will get together again, and if they do, I'll probably have trouble buying it since the reason for their break-up will never go away. They'll always have the same half-brother.

That being said, there's probably a lot to be discussed about them in seasons one and two. It was a defining relationship for both of them. Dan would hardly be where he is now if it wasn't for his relationship with Serena, a lot of Serena's character development (and issues for that matter) can probably be derived from her relationship with Dan. Who knows, if she hadn't dated him maybe she would have reverted back to Old Serena halfway through season one? That's kind of what she did in the books, right? Plus, would Lily and Rufus have gotten back together if Serena and Dan hadn't dated? That was their reason for getting back into each other's lives, wasn't it?

[Light of Night]

Actually, their first three breakups came before either knew Scott existed, and their fourth (brought on by Ms. Carr) didn't have much to do with him. I can't see a fifth try coming out any better, Scott or no Scott. I don't dispute, though, that it was a defining relationship.

There's a case of ambiguous motivation that I might as well address on this thread. In 1.10 (Hi, Society), Dan couldn't escort Serena to the cotillion because his mother's exhibtion was the same night; but Cece (whom I miss, BTW) pissed him off so thoroughly that he decided to defy his parents and escort Serena anyway. I've wondered ever since: was that just what Cece wanted?

[allusion]

They've only broken up three times and their last attempt at a relationship was definitely impacted by the revelation that they shared a half sibling. Ms. Carr was just the excuse they needed to break up, but I think that the Rufly spawn had much more to do with it.

Edited by allusion, Aug 19, 2010 @ 11:12 PM.

[kmcarte]

I think their ongoing together/apart is just the result of both of them having short attention spans and Serena's killer sexual lure for everything male that moves. I don't know why Dan (who has been platonic best friends with with a very attractive girl for years) seems so unable to spend two seconds talking to Serena without falling in love with her and wanting to be in a relationship again. Maybe this is because he really is just that in love with her? I don't know. It seems weird to me that when they're not together he's pretty immune to her physical charms, but claims to be in love after they have long talks etc., but when they're together they seem to communicate best physically and suddenly he's so judgemental whenever they talk.

If they get back together (even if it's in the last episode of the series) I'll feel like it's just a matter of time before they break up.

[laurenm775]

I agree with all of the above, bar one thing. Vanessa? Very Attractive? Do not see that at all. I am not talking about the actress herself. But for the character, not only does she have atrocious dress sense, nor seem to know what a hairbrush is for, she is so...horrible...that I see no attractiveness about her. Obviously Dan finds her personality attractive, but not in a relationship, as even when they are together he is after Serena.

[Desafinado]

On rewatch, Dan's talk with Serena and her subsequent expectation for Colin to resign got even more ridiculous.

I think it's odd that the show keeps promoting a "love triangle" between DNS, because from the past episode, it seemed fairly clear Dan was her choice. As far as Dan goes, it's almost as if we have to view the whole of S3 as having not happened. I can't forget the interaction between Nate/Serena and Dan/Vanessa where everyone was gushing and so excited to see the other couple together, Serena even going so far as to suggest role play to Vanessa. Wha?

Edited by Desafinado, Nov 11, 2010 @ 11:18 AM.

[kmcarte]

On rewatch, Dan's talk with Serena and her subsequent expectation for Colin to resign got even more ridiculous.

I think it's odd that the show keeps promoting a "love triangle" between DNS, because from the past episode, it seemed fairly clear Dan was her choice. As far as Dan goes, it's almost as if we have to view the whole of S3 as having not happened. I can't forget the interaction between Nate/Serena and Dan/Vanessa where everyone was gushing and so excited to see the other couple together, Serena even going so far as to suggest role play to Vanessa. Wha?

Agreed. In my mind the only thing left of their love triangle is that Serena might not want to get back with Dan because it might hurt Nate, who she does still care about as a friend. I think at this point we're pretty much supposed to forget about everything once it's happened, and just accept whatever BS the characters are spouting with regards to their pasts. Next episode Serena will probably wax poetic about her relationship with both guys, completely forgetting all the things that were wrong at the time, until she randomly remembers her decision earlier to not date either of them.

Or better yet, until someone completely changes her mind using only the power of suggestion. 'You deserve someone who will give up everything to be with you, just like I did when we were dating' W.T.F. That is dirty, dirty lie Dan! We were right there when you were dating and we know darn well that you were shitty to her at every conceivable oppertunity. Maybe he could give up his self-righteousness for her, that would be huge concession on his part.

[rue721]

Maybe he could give up his self-righteousness for her, that would be huge concession on his part.

Hahahahaha

What makes it even more douche-y is, this is the man who basically broke up with Vanessa because she had the gall to enter the same application pool as he did. He's never willing to give up *anything.* He even still tries to play the "Humphrey's are better than all y'all!" card while Lily's billionaire money is in his wallet, and the only reason he even knows Serena is because he wasn't willing to give up school to pursue his dreams the way his best friend and his sister both did.

Oh yeah, and remember when he spent all summer hooking up with girls, then slut-shamed Serena for one (fake) kiss with her (fake) boyfriend, Nate, at the White Party (S2)? He's not only not willing to give up anything he wants, he expects everyone to give up everything for *him*!

At this point, I can't even enjoy watching Serena date anymore, because it's entirely nonsensical, and I could never enjoy Dan's self-righteous raging.

[ParisianDream]

Dan and Serena in S1 were my OTP for the show. I thought they were adorable together, my favourite scene being after cotillion when he carried her out, when Lily was looking over the staircase at them and Apologise was playing and it was all bittersweet and stuff? Yeah. Amazing.

They're pretty much under my radar these days. I really, really hope they don't end up back together because I've found their characters insufferable enough as they are, without some kind of super merge.

[MV007]

I don't have a problem forgetting the Serena/Nate season three because I didn't watch it so I'm enjoying getting back to Serena/Dan.

[covington]

We were right there when you were dating and we know darn well that you were shitty to her at every conceivable oppertunity.

But, that's not the truth. I don't know if I'm wearing rose-colored glasses or not, but I always thought he treated her pretty well. Yes, he's judgy, but no one is perfect. He loved her and would listen to her. He thought the best of her. But, I don't see how he was shitty to her at every turn.

I've really enjoyed how the show has made it clear that while Dan has his issues with the UES, he holds Serena to a different standard. That despite who she may have been, he believes in who she is now. He was the only one willing to believe that she didn't get herself drugged up in a cheap motel. He wanted people to give her a chance to speak for herself, something that not even her best-friend was willing to do.

So, while DS have had their moments of absurdity, I think they fit very well. Especially when I look at the other big couple on this show: Chuck and Blair. Their problems (and dan's mild douchery) are nothing in comparison.

[JennyLiz]

while Dan has his issues with the UES, he holds Serena to a different standard...So, while DS have had their moments of absurdity, I think they fit very well. Especially when I look at the other big couple on this show: Chuck and Blair.

See, to me it's the complete opposite. Don't get me wrong, Chuck and Blair have essentially been ruined for me with the ridiculous plots they've gone through, but at the core they have similar (admittedly warped) values and wholly love each other. Dan and Serena, on the other hand, have little to nothing in common. Dan hates everything about the UES, and Serena is a big part of that world. She can't help it if she was brought up in a certain way; yes, her family has money. That's not her fault. Yes, she can get out of trouble by playing the "van der Woodsen" card. That's not her fault either. She enjoys her lifestyle; enjoys being able to go out, she likes to go to parties and events, and there's nothing wrong with that. I get sick of Dan acting like anyone from the UES, or anyone who pertakes in that lifestyle, is shallow and therefore beneath him. And that's why I think Dan and Serena won't work.

[covington]

I would understand that sentiment in season 1, but he's not that guy anymore. He'll never be like chuck or blair, but he doesn't have that same chip on his shoulder and he doesn't seem to hate that world at all. So, to me that doesn't really wash. I think some people are still stuck on season 1 dan and serena.

[Wild Roses]

I agree with you covington. We've seen repeated instances in seasons 2,3, and 4 that Dan no longer hates the UES. He might hold grudges against individual people within that world, but he has increasingly come to embrace it. For example, in season 2, he tells Serena (paraphrase) "all my best memories of these past 2 years have been events in the UES." In season 3, DESPITE having his bubble of acceptance at NYU, he repeatedly--and happily--shows up at various UES events (and even chastises Vanessa when she judges him for liking to attend UES related events) and in season 4, we've seen him supporting, rather than judging, his UES friends and family (giving Nate advice on the Archibalds' divorce, supporting Serena when Juliet falsely accuses her, helping Blair track down Juliet).

Which isn't to say that Dan is in a zen-state regarding the UES--he still judges (Blair and Chuck for packing off Jenny, Lily for being an absentee mother, Serena for being so damn indecisive in choosing between him and Nate) but he is more likely to listen to reason--and to the reason of those who he is judging (Blair points out to him that Jenny is disruptive even when she means well, Lily points out that Dan didn't know Serena when S was doing drugs, and Serena points out that he's always known she's a free spirit).

He has more of sense of humour about the UES rather than a chip on his shoulder. In many ways, he's come to embrace his label as 'the ultimate insider.' He DOES still hold himself higher than the people he associates with in the UES (recall his talk with Vanessa 4.07), but he doesn't think that lifestyle or that world is completely evil, totally frivolous, and only about money.

[paupers]

I really wish Dan and Serena were closed at the end of S2 because that was their expiration date IMO. Blair told Serena that Nate was her high-school boyfriend so now that high-school was over, the relationship felt over too. Likewise, Dan and Serena were each other's high-school love IMO. Serena was the it-girl Dan's high-school self had always dreamed of and Dan was the type of guy Serena's high-school self needed. She needed to him show she was no longer bad-Serena, she was matured and intelligent. Dan idolised Serena and in his mind saw her as this untouchable goddess type figure. Both represented something seemingly unattainable to each other's high school self. They did genuinely care about each other but their love was formed on almost materialistic ideas and that's why it won't or rather didn't last.

Dan realised Serena wasn't perfect and as this image was shattered the relationship started to break down at the end of S1. I think Serena had begun to embrace that "bad-serena" side to her and her need for Dan weakened. (It's difficult to read Serena because she's such a flaky character changing boys every episode and most of them do seem to be of importance to her while in the relationship. People argue she cared the most about Dan but I think it only comes across that way because they had 2 seasons devoted to them. I would argue she cares equally about Carter and Nate.)

Dan and Serena have both changed as people and - Dan in particular - no longer look for the same ideals in an adult relationship. Connecting on an intellectual level is important to him and it's something he never did with Serena as Blair pointed out.

Edited by paupers, May 2, 2011 @ 10:26 AM.

[portiaslegacy]

I kind of remember TPTB saying that S2 would be the end of Dan and Serena. (Also I don't think either of the actors was pleased with how they were written as a couple at that point). I don't know why they changed their mind at the end of S3. Did they worry that Dan and Vanessa would be to isolated in NYU/Brooklyn? Did they want the relationship in the front of the viewers minds while the Ben story retconned them? Were Serena and Nate too boring to write alone?

Anyway, I agree the relationship should be treated as over.

[kschica]

I got the impression Dan and Serena were meant to be over, and I think they really might be as well. My theory is they needed to reboot Dan/Serena to get maximum impact for Dan/Blair.

If Dan/Serena hadn't been together at all for nearly two years, and were basically brother and sister, then the dramatic impact would be roughly that of Nate/Serena. Serena already looks pretty unreasonable to be upset about Dan/Blair, but she'd look really unreasonable if they hadn't done the reboot at the end of last season.

[paupers]

I think the only reason they restarted Dan/Serena was to pander to their shippers and to set up a D/S/N triangle for S4. Creatively speaking, the choice made no sense to me. And to then follow it up with the Ben SL was just a huge knock back on them. D/S almost lost what made them "special" in the eyes of so many because Dan wasn't Serena's first love and he wasn't the first boy to treat her properly.

Did they worry that Dan and Vanessa would be to isolated in NYU/Brooklyn?Were Serena and Nate too boring to write alone?

I think Dan/Vanessa didn't get as positive a response as they hoped - it's a tough ask considering how unpopular Vanessa is. I think Serena/Nate's popularity is under-estimated, a large number of people who liked them in the books have continued to like them on the show. I always saw the potential there and it's a shame the writers never quite exploited it. Likewise with Carter/Serena.


ETA:

I got the impression Dan and Serena were meant to be over, and I think they really might be as well. My theory is they needed to reboot Dan/Serena to get maximum impact for Dan/Blair.

I think this is true. Although I wonder how much of Serena's backlash is because of her actual feelings towards Dan. She seemed pretty over him and it comes across more as just simple self-absorbed jealousy. Blair was mean in her take down but very true.

Dan doesn't seem into Serena at all either, he's ready and willing to move on. The big player in Dan/Blair's future is really Serena/Blair as opposed to Dan/Serena.

Edited by paupers, May 2, 2011 @ 10:44 AM.

[brighthope]

My theory is they needed to reboot Dan/Serena to get maximum impact for Dan/Blair.

I think so as well, because nothing about the reboot has screamed "you should be rooting for this couple!" Also, it gave Dan/Blair a bigger connection point, while Dan could have been there as a friend for Serena through her Juliet drama, it made more sense to have him there as somewhat of a love interest...it all just seemed a bit half-hearted. And with both Serena and Chuck being thoughtless, it gave Dan and Blair something to bond over. I am interested to see how the season ends, though, might change my mind.

I don't think Dan/Vanessa was ever meant to be a long term love affair. As soon as they got together they had issues...and in their case they were issues they created themselves.

[Snooker83]

I agree that at this point the relationship just seems over. I think it was telling that when Serena confronted them at the pink party after the kiss, he tried to explain once and then just wondered out of the room.

If there was any residual feeling left for Serena, wouldn't he have made more of an effort to convince her. I know he's falling for Blair, but still, it just seems that the Dan who would go to any length to make things right with Serena is gone. And thank god for that. I find the character infinitely more interesting when they're apart, especially these last episodes with his friendship with Blair. Also interesting that by leaving Dan completely missed Blair defending their friendship. Because Blair wants to make it up to Serena, but at no point is she willing to abandon this new friendship to do that. Rightly so, I think both Blair and Dan have really grown up in S4.

Well I guess a child that turns out not to be yours and being bartered for a hotel would do that :-)

Edited by Snooker83, May 7, 2011 @ 3:56 AM.

[paupers]

I think it's worth pointing out that since the DS relationship was restarted at the end of S3, a lot of the DS stuff has been implied or just talked about. I think there have only been 2 kisses and even they have been short. The writers haven't really shown much commitment so I doubt there's a long term plan for them. I think at best, they'll leave them open so they can come back to them when everything else gets stale or they are in desperate need of a plot.

[kschica]

I think another issue with Dan/Serena is that the longer Rufus and Lily are together, the harder it gets for them to be a couple again. After Christmas break, the first time they saw each other again was at family brunch. The more that unit really becomes a family, the harder it becomes to really reboot Dan/Serena.

I think it goes beyond the general squickiness of their parents being married, as Dan/Serena were a couple before that. It's now going on two years that a) Dan and Serena aren't a couple and b) their parents are married and forming a family unit. I also think Dan's growing brother relationship with Eric also makes those family bonds tighter.

[ParadoxLost]

I think another issue with Dan/Serena is that the longer Rufus and Lily are together, the harder it gets for them to be a couple again.

I think that the writers agree with you here because it seems like Dan's attendance of family events is inversely correlated to the romantic nature of Dan/Serena's relationship.

However, I think there is a strong possibility that if Dan and Serena were rebooted, it would be when Lily and Rufus would be having marital problems to give D/S another obstacle, loyalty to their parents. They've already done their parents getting together as an obstacle.

[Light of Night]

From a post on another thread.

For example, in The Wild Brunch episode Dan was willing to walk away from Serena after finding out about the Nate affair -- he didn't want to be a part of that scandalous world. In High Society, Dan was perfectly willing to skip the cotillion and only decided to go when Cece insulted him.

I'm speculating here, but I think that if Dan hadn't known about Serena shielding Eric in Poison Ivy, he'd have found another reason to reconcile with her. You don't lose an obsession that easily (but everything would be different if Nate had gotten to her first). Serena was willing to to skip the cotillion, but when Cece convinced her to go, I think Dan would have been willing to escort her, had he not been unwillingly committed to Alison's art exhibit at the same time.

[seethesun]

I'm very interested in where this relationship is going to go next season, given what we know about Dan's book from the finale. How is Serena going to feel that her greatest love thus far was writing a pseudo-exposé about her and her friends the entire time they were falling in love? And that now her best friend has supposedly surpassed her in the eyes of the one other person she thought she could always count on?

I wonder if the writers are going for a further complication of DS' story and a way to bring them back to each other (now that the wool has been removed from their eyes and they no longer place each other on a pedestal), or if this is a way to say that their history is a lie and Dan never really loved her. I don't know, but either way it'll be interesting, since at least Dan can't fully claim to be in the right anymore, or be the "wronged" one in the relationship. Or so I hope.

[Prinnie]

I wonder if the writers are going for a further complication of DS' story and a way to bring them back to each other (now that the wool has been removed from their eyes and they no longer place each other on a pedestal), or if this is a way to say that their history is a lie and Dan never really loved her. I don't know, but either way it'll be interesting, since at least Dan can't fully claim to be in the right anymore, or be the "wronged" one in the relationship. Or so I hope.

I actually think that relationship is the most interesting it has been in 4 seasons at this point. They have evened the scales and made both parties wrong enough time that they could start over. I think it all depends on the book. Realistically someone writes a fake expose on you and your friends and they get dropped. I expect that there will be lots of DS next season. They have built it up with the book reveal and with the crush on Blair. I don't think we have ever seen a really large falling out between Dan and Serena? I could see a big fight coming and then a big reconciliation.

[seethesun]

I really do hope we see a big fallout for Dan and Serena, and maybe even Dan regretting hurting her. I'm tired of S letting everything Dan does slide because he's such a good guy. It would be nice to see him on the receiving end of a cold splash of reality for once.

[Snooker83]

What has Dan done recently that is so horrible?

I just don't see it.