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The Killing: Forbrydelsen Comes to AMC


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#3451

dubbel zout

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Posted Apr 16, 2012 @ 9:15 AM

Was I the only one who was laughing at Linden's surprise that her ex was suing for joint custody?


I can't believe it took him this long. I also rolled my eyes at how obvious a plot point it was. Oh, noes! More angst for Linden to deal with!

it's such a dicky move for someone who wasn't there for much of the time.


We don't really know his side of things, only what we've heard Linden say. Jack seems to want to a relationship with his father, and Linden is reluctant to let him have one—that's the dickish move, IMO. You don't use your kid to work out your issues with your ex.

Who did Mitch call & hang up on?


Jasper's father. Last season she'd had an affair with him.

was that Pyotr's mother at the end, confronting Stan?


If Pyotr is the guy Stan killed, that was his wife confronting Stan. If Pyotr is the young kid with the tattoo, yes, that's his mom.

Did anyone else find it pretty unrealistic that the kids at school would be teasing Tommy about having a dead sister? I know kids can be mean, but that's over the top.


Maybe they were teasing him that Rosie was a hooker? I don't know how much of that got into the news. At any rate, you'd think the staff would crack down on that stuff ASAP, but I guess Seattle public school teachers are as inept as the other city employees.

Edited by dubbel zout, Apr 16, 2012 @ 9:25 AM.

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#3452

SHOgirl

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Posted Apr 16, 2012 @ 11:44 AM

Did anyone else find it pretty unrealistic that the kids at school would be teasing Tommy about having a dead sister? I know kids can be mean, but that's over the top.


My daughter has been teased at school because her father died in a car accident when she was 7 months old so I'm not shocked at all. Kids are assholes.
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#3453

Kolaka

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Posted Apr 16, 2012 @ 12:21 PM

Who did Mitch call & hang up on?

Jasper's father. Last season she'd had an affair with him.

It was Mitch's sister Terry in both cases (who called and hung up on the guy she had the affair with).

We don't really know his side of things, only what we've heard Linden say. Jack seems to want to a relationship with his father, and Linden is reluctant to let him have one—that's the dickish move, IMO. You don't use your kid to work out your issues with your ex.

I thought the father didn't want anything to do with Jack until those couple of episodes last season? I do agree that unless he's a complete thug/criminal/abuser, Jack should see him since he wants to. I'm surprised Jack hasn't run back to him, though maybe he's had more contact that we haven't seen and that's what prompted the custody suit. I don't remember if the father has any legal rights or if Linden has sole custody.

I didn't think Linden was using Jack to work out her issues with the ex, I thought he had taken himself out of the picture, so I can't blame her for being pissed that he's popping up now. She doesn't understand Jack though. From what she's said about her time in foster care, she probably believes that the care she's giving Jack is better than what she got (and it probably is) and she thinks "tomorrow I'll do better" but then something happens and Jack is eating out of a vending machine again.

My daughter has been teased at school because her father died in a car accident when she was 7 months old so I'm not shocked at all. Kids are assholes.

Yeah, the bullying didn't surprise me. Bullies will pick on the weak ones. I wonder how Stan's fatherly advice will turn out? It's easy for him to say "hit him hard" but if the other kid is bigger than you and backed up by some friends it probably will just lead to an ass kicking.

Edited by Kolaka, Apr 16, 2012 @ 12:22 PM.

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#3454

Snookums

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Posted Apr 16, 2012 @ 12:33 PM

Comment: Ol' Richmond sure did bounce back from being on the edge of death, with a 12+ hour surgery to save his life . . . in 3 days. Apart from the paralysis, he seems totally healed from his life threatening gunshot wound . . . in 3 days.


Thank you! Roger Ebert reviewed a movie a few weeks back about a young woman, newly paraplegic, who participates in a wheelchair dancing competition. He pointed out that the timeline was completly unrealistic, that a few weeks or even months are hardly enough time to get over the amount of physical and mental trauma of losing your ability to walk, having catheters and colostomy bags, etc. Richmond's raspy, harsh "gargle with glass" voice was the only point that was remotely realistic. He should barely be able to focus on a short conversation, let alone entertain the thought of moving on with any part of his life! And trying to get up and flopping about like a gaffed salmon should have torn his stiches at the least.

Was glad to see him tell off that OT guy. Jesus, where do these employees get their bedside manner training? Do their superiors just have them watch the first half of Mean Girls, or what?

I do think this episode answers any questions about Jamie: He is truly, madly, deeply in love with Richmond, and Richmond knows it. He was being cruel to him to try to get the guy to move on (and mired in his own depression. This man's own sister sends him a fancy wheelchair but can't be bothered to show up or even call him?? Did he set all her dolls on fire when they were kids?) I knew him trying to put Richmond in the chair was a lost cause--that's 200+ pounds of dead weight to manipulate--but he tried anyway, because he loves him. And he looked guilty at R's line about Gwen "being available". He's the one who ran her off, but as far as Richmond knows she's just skated out of town to a new job without so much as a by-your-leave.


Linden and Holder. Together, they make one competent cop! Finally getting a viable lead, tracking it down, while both Linden and Holder's pasts come to be of ironic good use as they follow a lonely kid, a planner, and his strange, stunted passion for revenge.

A few things:

One, did Stan kill Tattoo's father? The way the body was found--so similar to Rosie--suggests that Tattoo certainly thinks so. But I dunno. Stan's certainly strong and fearsome enough to kill, but he doesn't seem the type for that kind of cold-blooded, calculated hit. Get him mad enough and he'll batter you to death, but a gunshot? Even to get out of the mob and win Mitch--I just can't see it. Doesn't mean it wasn't suspected, though, by people with long, long memories.

Two, Both Terri and Rosie apparently worked for Beau Soliel. Valchek, as the owner, had to know this. There's no way he couldn't. Why did he allow this in the first place? Terri, well, she's a grownup and maybe, on the remote chance Stan ever found out about it, he wouldn't care. But Rosie? Valchek's a canny old weasel who's been doing this since God was in short pants. There's no way that he'd okay the underaged daughter of his ex-enforcer to blithely join his hooker ring. He wouldn't want to be involved with underage kids in the first place--way too much heat--but this one in particular is such a colossally bad idea I can't buy there isn't something big behind it.


Who did Mitch call & hang up on?


That was Terri. She called Jaspar's father, the guy she thought of as her "rich boyfreind" she met through a "dating site" and was thought of by him as a "crazy hooker" he "paid off."
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#3455

djsunyc

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Posted Apr 16, 2012 @ 12:43 PM

Is Volchek the confirmed owner of Beau Soleil or did he just discover where the information was hidden and destroyed it?

What did he mean when he told Stan to pay attention to the kids that are alive?

So please confirm if this is right:

Stan killed a man to get out of the mob b/c he wanted to raise a family.
The man Stan killed had a son.
The son of the killed man had the Japanese tattoo and a drawing in his place of Rosie's face all crossed out.
The son's mom is the lady Holder & Linden visited and then confronted Stan at the end in his office.
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#3456

Snookums

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Posted Apr 16, 2012 @ 12:58 PM

So please confirm if this is right:

Stan killed a man to get out of the mob b/c he wanted to raise a family.
The man Stan killed had a son.
The son of the killed man had the Japanese tattoo and a drawing in his place of Rosie's face all crossed out.
The son's mom is the lady Holder & Linden visited and then confronted Stan at the end in his office.



All correct. Except it's not 100% that Stan killed the guy. He's certainly believed to have done so by Poytr and his mother.


Volchek's comment about Stan's kids was a threat. "You know who you're dealing with. You still have something precious it would be a shame to lose."

Edited by Snookums, Apr 16, 2012 @ 12:59 PM.

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#3457

BBDi

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Posted Apr 16, 2012 @ 1:08 PM

But Rosie? Valchek's a canny old weasel who's been doing this since God was in short pants. There's no way that he'd okay the underaged daughter of his ex-enforcer to blithely join his hooker ring. He wouldn't want to be involved with underage kids in the first place--way too much heat--but this one in particular is such a colossally bad idea I can't buy there isn't something big behind it.


But Valchek or whatever his name is (isn't that the old police lieutenant or something on The Wire?) was kind of pissed at Stan for leaving the fold and renouncing his violent past, right? Perhaps he wouldn't have sought out Rosie, but maybe when Terri brought her into the service (if that's indeed what happened), maybe he would allowed it just to spite Stan?
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#3458

djsunyc

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Posted Apr 16, 2012 @ 1:15 PM

Thanks Snookums

All correct. Except it's not 100% that Stan killed the guy. He's certainly believed to have done so by Poytr
and his mother.


I thought the FBI guy also confirmed it.
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#3459

Snookums

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Posted Apr 16, 2012 @ 1:33 PM

I thought the FBI guy also confirmed it.



He said it was rumored that Stan did it as the price he paid for getting out of the mob, but no one could ever prove anything.

I'd bet that Stan actually didn't do it but let it be thought that he did so he could get out. Even the things you didn't do come back to haunt you.


As for Volchek, I really don't think he'd be cool with Rosie working for him, even in a revenge sense, because it's just not practical. He isn't alive today because he indulges blood fueds and vengance and arm tattoos--one bust of an underage kid and his whole empire could come down, even if she wasn't Stan's daughter. When he hurts people it's to send a pointed and timely message, not get a snap back about something that happened seventeen years ago. He could have offed Rosie or Stan long before this if he felt it was necessary.

Edited by Snookums, Apr 16, 2012 @ 1:37 PM.

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#3460

Todd

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Posted Apr 16, 2012 @ 1:41 PM

was that Pyotr's mother at the end, confronting Stan?


Piotr was his father, the one Stan is thought to have killed. The son is named Alexi, and yes, that was his mother.
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#3461

Todd

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Posted Apr 16, 2012 @ 1:41 PM

[OMG I'm so sorry; I clicked Submit three times.]

Edited by Todd, Apr 16, 2012 @ 1:43 PM.

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#3462

Todd

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Posted Apr 16, 2012 @ 1:42 PM

[Again, a thousand pardons]

Edited by Todd, Apr 16, 2012 @ 1:43 PM.

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#3463

ChipBach

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Posted Apr 16, 2012 @ 2:00 PM

I must admit, the nothing that is happening in this show is going at a much faster pace this season...

Edited by ChipBach, Apr 16, 2012 @ 2:06 PM.

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#3464

Luciaphile

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Posted Apr 16, 2012 @ 5:54 PM

But Valchek or whatever his name is (isn't that the old police lieutenant or something on The Wire?) was kind of pissed at Stan for leaving the fold and renouncing his violent past, right? Perhaps he wouldn't have sought out Rosie, but maybe when Terri brought her into the service (if that's indeed what happened), maybe he would allowed it just to spite Stan?


I think the character is Janek Kovarsky. You're right about the Wire...
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#3465

stillshimpy

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Posted Apr 16, 2012 @ 6:37 PM

Well, that episode just sort of...huh. Okay, I like that there is some forward momentum in the case, but one thing is really troubling me (yes, I know, don't think about it too much and it will stop being a bother).

All correct. Except it's not 100% that Stan killed the guy. He's certainly believed to have done so by Poytr and his mother.


Stan knew who that woman was. Even if Stan didn't kill her boyfriend/husband/Poytr's father, he clearly knew he was suspected of it. How in the blue blazes did it not occur to Stan last season, or at any time in the last two weeks that Rosie's seemingly random and horrible death, bore some resemblance to the murder that he allegedly had to commit in order to get out of the mob? If -- even if it isn't true -- Stan knows who that woman is, he knows what she suspects him of doing. How has Stan not been thinking "Those rat bastards!" all along. Wouldn't he have made the organized crime connection long before this?

It's an interesting enough development, I just think it shows obvious signs of a retcon.

The stuff with Richmond is freaking absurd. First of all, that's the second time he's been dropped to the ground since being shot. The EMTs had their gurney collapse -- in one of those moments I was choosing to ignore, because it was a tad over-the-top. That was the moment where it became super clear that Richmond was about to be cleared within the story. He's shot and ends up being dashed to the pavement. Also, during Jaime's "heft Richmond to the wheelchair" segment...what the hell? Just from liability issues alone, the entire staff would have swarmed the place the second anything was unhooked. I don't understand the mad rush to get Richmond back in the political game, the entire Battle for Olympus that was the Seattle Mayoral race was easily one of the dreariest things from last season. I guess they don't want Billy Campbell to have to spend the season in a hospital bed, making the slow recovery that might be closer to realistic, but do they have to keep doing gravity checks with his broken body? He'd be in shock from that kind of treatment, because he's bound to have a monster incision.

I didn't laugh when Linden's ex was suing her for joint custody, it was yet another "What the...?" Last season it was first a case of "What do you mean, you've been talking to your father??" to Linden having a conversation with him, to Jack being allowed to spend a bit of time with him, back to "I don't want you talking to him!" this season. I understand they want personal angst for Linden, but they could have done everything they did with this episode -- up to and including Linden giving the vending machines significant "I know I'm failing" looks -- and then simply have her decide to let Jack go and stay with his father for his own good.

Also, the smirk on Tommy when Terri let his little brother out of the trunk sort of robbed me of any sympathy for the kid on the "he's being bullied" level...because he's bullying the crap out of his little brother. Yes, lock the poor kid in the trunk, it isn't as if his big sister just died that way or anything. I'm sure he won't be in therapy well into his thirties, thanks to that moment alone there, Tommy. Jeez. Terri's reaction wasn't good, but that was not some minor thing that Tommy did. That was "we're going to go and see a nice doctor, who will probably ask you to draw pictures and talk about your feelings, a lot." material. Mostly it was just an odd scene. It seems as if I'm really supposed to feel like Terri was so far in the wrong, she was the very definition of wrongness...and she did not react well. By the same token? Tommy really did something freaky twisted. I get that it is supposed to be that he's in pain, it's just the scene focused on Tommy and Terri...and emotionally I was more of the "Uh...how about the kid that just sustained significant emotional trauma? Bit of concern for him? Please?"

Weirdly, it just made me angry at Mitch all over again. What a perfect time to heap abandonment issues on top of all else that is going on with those kids. I don't blame Tommy for being angry. I don't even think any of that was unrealistic. It was just all sort of horrifying.

Edited by stillshimpy, Apr 16, 2012 @ 6:38 PM.

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#3466

Bob1965

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Posted Apr 16, 2012 @ 6:41 PM

Yeah, the bullying didn't surprise me. Bullies will pick on the weak ones. I wonder how Stan's fatherly advice will turn out? It's easy for him to say "hit him hard" but if the other kid is bigger than you and backed up by some friends it probably will just lead to an ass kicking.


It seemed like pretty good advice to me. I was small for my age when I was young, and I learned that it's better to fight back and maybe get an ass kicking, than get a daily ass kicking.
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#3467

BBDi

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Posted Apr 16, 2012 @ 10:25 PM

I finally actually watched the episode tonight On Demand. I do think the secret to improving the show lies in forwarding through the part having to do with the campaign. I have to confess that I have never been a fan of Billy Campbell and that makes it even harder to watch these scenes. I can never tell if I hate Richmond because he's played by Billy Campbell or if I just hate Richmond/the campaign storyline. Maybe both.

I appreciate that they picked up the pace a bit and seemed to make some headway. I have to keep reminding myself again and again and again that each episode is just 24-hour period, though. I know other shows have made this conceit work, but for some reason it just seems to bog down The Killing.
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#3468

Rocket

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Posted Apr 17, 2012 @ 12:34 AM

Oh hey, I thought of a simple way for this show to become better: stop introducing new characters and do something with the ones you already have. Way to make a suspect tracker for your Web site to really emphasize how many characters you flirt with for 15 seconds, show.
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#3469

ChipBach

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Posted Apr 17, 2012 @ 9:17 AM

Oh hey, I thought of a simple way for this show to become better: stop introducing new characters and do something with the ones you already have. Way to make a suspect tracker for your Web site to really emphasize how many characters you flirt with for 15 seconds, show.


I am thinking of a simpler way, to reach for the clicker and change channels. I can't stand any of the characters, even the dead girl. Even Holder is speaking with such a hardcore ghetto slang I can't understand him or sympathize with him.
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#3470

Inquisitionist

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Posted Apr 17, 2012 @ 10:05 AM

How in the blue blazes did it not occur to Stan last season, or at any time in the last two weeks that Rosie's seemingly random and horrible death, bore some resemblance to the murder that he allegedly had to commit in order to get out of the mob? If -- even if it isn't true -- Stan knows who that woman is, he knows what she suspects him of doing. How has Stan not been thinking "Those rat bastards!" all along. Wouldn't he have made the organized crime connection long before this?

It's an interesting enough development, I just think it shows obvious signs of a retcon.

Word. And how did the police not know of Stan's crime connections until now? I'm fairly sure we're going to learn that
Spoiler
, but geez, this has got to be one of the most high-profile murders in Seattle in ages, and it's assigned to a detective who's supposedly leaving and a partner who hasn't worked Homicide before? Seattle must be quite different from Baltimore, where this would have been a "red ball" on Homicide: Life on the Street.
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#3471

Snookums

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Posted Apr 17, 2012 @ 11:11 AM

The only way the police not knowing about Stan's past works is if they were in on hiding the murderer almost from the beginning--which ties in with Linden's ex-boss's bizarre "The one who's leaving and the ex-junkie are the perfect team for this" decision. But honestly, as Inquisitionist points out, this is a huge, high profile case that was almost immediately tied to the mayoral race, so that decision sure didn't keep anything on the down low.

Any reporter with brains (i.e., any reporter besides the nit that approached Tommy) would surely smell a Pulitzer in the offing with the way this case has been handled. The press should be besieging the precinct and jamming Linden and Holder's phones, all the while digging up and publishing every scrap of info on them that they can find: Ex Methhead! Former Foster Care Kid! Ex Suing For Custody!

It's pretty obvious that someone on the force is in on the crime--hence Holder being set up with laughably feeble fake evidence and the whole backpack scenario--but again, the question is WHY? Was the department in on it from the beginning, and thus complicit in planning the murder of a seventeen year old girl? What on earth could Rosie possibly have witnessed or done that warranted this kind of multilevel orchestrated shutdown? Were the police asked to cover up after the fact? A more believable scenario, certainly, but again, why? This wasn't just one or two disgruntled cops on the take--this would have to involve mulitple law enforcement organizations and dozens of people. Again, one seventeen year old girl.

And that's not including the mob, the billionaire, and the candidates! Or Angry Young Tattooed Men! Or rich guys blowing off unstable hired mistresses that worked on the website run by the mob boss who formerly employed the father of the murder victim! Who was also the victim's aunt! Who may have gotten the victim into hooking!

There's so many factors that either half of them are red herrings (naturally) or they all tie together into one Grand Gugniol conspiracy that seems frankly overblown for Seattle. Linden better stock up on gum.

Edited by Snookums, Apr 17, 2012 @ 11:12 AM.

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#3472

stillshimpy

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Posted Apr 17, 2012 @ 11:21 AM

That and it makes Stan's actions this season really quite odd. That's not even counting the "Stan tried to beat Bennet Ahmed almost to death, because he was that convinced that Bennet was responsible." Is Stan supposed to have a significant closed-head injury? Your daughter is bound and stuffed in a trunk. You yourself are known as the man who bound, murdered and stuffed someone in the trunk. How do you miss that connection? Instead it's a case of "The Pink T-Shirt is the smoking gun! KILL BENNET!"

So this stuff would have been interesting enough last year, but this year it is more a case of "What the...how...when...what?" because last season actually occurred and all that.

That really is setting aside the fact that the media would be stuck on the police department like super-glue infused epoxy with a dash of industrial cement and that's just over the murder of a teenage girl. Add in the "...hey ho! Political ties!" and they'd be knee deep in cameras wherever they went, with intrusive microphones, shouted questions, the whole nine yards.

That's also just setting aside the fact that almost any teenager in 2011 (when the story is set), would have left an online trail and a many a text as evidence to follow. This crap with "...the neighborhood crazy person with the telescope spotted Rosie from afar..." junk would really be more like a flurry of texts saying "got2go giv book bac. TTYL. Itz raining! LOL!"
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#3473

Snookums

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Posted Apr 17, 2012 @ 11:32 AM

Stillshimpy, ee-zackly. Rosie ain't Amish. Even if she was keeping secrets she had a cell phone and freinds. It should have been a LOT easier then shown to track her movements, even partially.


And you are totally correct about Stan. Okay, say he killed Pytor back in the day to leave the mob behind and start a new life with Mitch. Now, seventeen years later, his daughter is murdered in a way that has to ring a few bells, to say the least. But as far as we were shown last season, Stan wasn't keeping terrifying suppositions a secret--he honestly had no clue what could have happened.

Even if we accept the scenario that Stan knowingly almost killed Bennett not because he truly thought him guilty, but because Mitch begged him to and he had to cover up the fact (that is, hide the fact from Mitch) he knew Bennett was innocent due to the setting of Rosie's death--well, that makes Stan one of the most unconcionable monsters ever. Yes, he's a violent man who's kept that violence on a leash for the better part of two decades, but to retcon the reason that violence broke forth was self-preservation? It makes the mob look like a bunch of tree-hugging Loraxes.
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#3474

ChipBach

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Posted Apr 17, 2012 @ 2:00 PM

Raylan Givens would have had this mess cleaned up in an hour... I wonder if the Stan murder was an original concept or something "brain-stormed" after the first season?
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#3475

shapeshifter

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Posted Apr 17, 2012 @ 6:04 PM

I just watched it.
I laughed and yelled at the TV, "With his pants down!" when our boy Holder had to put it away before giving chase to Tattoo Boy.
The rest of it was just depressing.
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#3476

sarahendipity

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Posted Apr 17, 2012 @ 6:12 PM

Loved the scene of Richmond in the hospital and the sun clearly casting shadows on the buildings in the background, and yet there is rain streaming down the windows. " we paid to rent the rain machine and we're going to use the damn thing!!"
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#3477

JoleneBrown

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Posted Apr 17, 2012 @ 6:52 PM

There's so many factors that either half of them are red herrings (naturally) or they all tie together into one Grand Gugniol conspiracy that seems frankly overblown for Seattle. Linden better stock up on gum.


This is another thing that has been hilarious about the show all along... SEATTLE???? SEATTLE??? I mean, come on. Why not set this show in LA/Boston/Chicago/NYC, a city with a real reputation. Like, on the one hand, it's cool to do something new, and I'm sure Seattle isn't all that it's stereotyped to be, like anything else, but I just feel like it's making it a little harder to sell this immigrant-hating, police-corrupt, weird teen sex party having set of storylines. God, put it in Detroit or something. But Seattle? What? I just don't know.
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#3478

grumpygoddess

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Posted Apr 17, 2012 @ 7:17 PM

Fave moment was when Holder tried on the glasses. Hee!

I've just realised that the comic book story is about a man avenging the death of his father, so that's a nice tie-in.

The pace was a bit better in this episode, interesting theory above that Jamie is in love with Richmond. I just thought they were trying to add some badly needed humour in that scene. But I also agree with the ridiculousness of Richmond's recovery. I mean, clearly he's a healthy man (with great arms), but he would not be able to move around like that so soon after major surgery. But anyway, I wish they had just killed him off. After watching 'Breaking Bad', this paralysis story is doing nothing for me.

Edited by grumpygoddess, Apr 17, 2012 @ 7:18 PM.

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#3479

shegunner

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Posted Apr 17, 2012 @ 7:34 PM

Raylan Givens would have had this mess cleaned up in an hour... I wonder if the Stan murder was an original concept or something "brain-stormed" after the first season?


Oh, so very true about Raylon.

Holder...talking...I can't even. Grow up, Stupid, and try to understand that you aren't ghetto.

I can promise the only reason I am putting myself through the torture of this show is because I love Jacob's recaps.
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#3480

Snookums

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Posted Apr 17, 2012 @ 10:58 PM

Loved the scene of Richmond in the hospital and the sun clearly casting shadows on the buildings in the background, and yet there is rain streaming down the windows. " we paid to rent the rain machine and we're going to use the damn thing!!"


Hee hee hee! That does happen very occasionally--you can be standing in heavy rain and watch the sun slanting through the breaking up clouds over the Sound--but not in this version of Seattle, boy. "Turn it up! MAXIMUM! Okay, now start throwing the seals and red herrings at the window!"
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