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Rizzoli & Isles


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#271

AimingforYoko

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Posted Jul 30, 2010 @ 1:03 PM

No surprise, considering the ratings, but it's now official: Rizzoli & Isles renewed for 2nd season.
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#272

nelblu

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Posted Jul 30, 2010 @ 11:36 PM

pythons, milk snakes and corn snakes don't hiss or rattle. They are pretty much mute creatures. It is impossible for Rizzoli to hear the snakes in a locked car in the garage.


Yeah , I was thinking that too - from the sound I was expecting them to find rattlesnakes in the car, but there weren't any rattlesnakes there that I could see. I don't see why Rizzoli had to hear them first anyway - the scene would have been just as effective and much scarier if she had just nonchalantly opened her car door not expecting to find anything out of the ordinary, and then seen the mass of snakes coiled in the driver's seat.

And were they supposedly poisonous? (Coral snake verses the one that looks similar but isn't deadly and who's name I can't remember at the moment.)


I couldn't see them clearly enough, but it looked like there was at least one snake that was either a coral snake, which is poisonous, or a king snake, which is the non-poisonous kind that looks like the coral snake. FYI they both have red, black and yellow bands, but on the coral snake the yellow bands separate the red from the black, and on the king snake the black bands separate the red from the yellow. The rule of thumb in identification is, if yellow is adjacent to red, then it's a coral snake, so definitely don't mess with it.

Visual aids:
Coral Snake
King Snake

Edited by nelblu, Jul 31, 2010 @ 6:13 PM.

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#273

ReverseFleckerl

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Posted Jul 31, 2010 @ 12:22 AM

Red next to yellow is a dangerous fellow. Red next to black is a friend of Jack.

Of course, I wouldn't be sure that I remembered the rhyme correctly (Is it starve a fever, feed a cold?) and my personal rule of thumb is "Snake! Run!"
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#274

pennben

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Posted Jul 31, 2010 @ 2:58 AM

Red snake in the morning, sailors.....oh hell, I agree with this...

my personal rule of thumb is "Snake! Run!"


ETA .....Like the wind!!!......

Anyway, I'm glad to see this show got picked up...it is a great fit with The Closer for the summer months. And though, as with almost any procedural show (such as The Closer), I'm quite adept at figuring out the "whodunit" quickly, as with those other shows, I watch for more than more than that....indeed, if the characters didn't coalesce, I wouldn't care about the show. Give me a crew I care about, and I'll care less about the whodonit, because we all know, and I care more about the story of who they are and how they make it to the "getting the guy"--the story is the team, not the guest star of the week.

Edited by pennben, Jul 31, 2010 @ 3:34 AM.

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#275

devilsavocat

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Posted Jul 31, 2010 @ 6:31 AM

Agreed on the shockingly loud snakes. I let it go at the time though because I appreciated the Indiana Jones homage -- "I hate snakes!"
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#276

jacksos1

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Posted Jul 31, 2010 @ 7:49 AM

I know Donnie Wahlberg has his own show but is there any chance he can make an appearance soon? That last scene with his character and Rizzoli was my favorite of the episode. Other than that - this show is not clicking for me. I don't even think the "chemistry" between the leads is really all that. The cases aren't that interesting and sometimes, Rizzoli's attitude is a bit too much - especially with the Donnie Wahlberg character. I DVR this show but it's taking me longer and longer to get around to watching it.
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#277

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Posted Jul 31, 2010 @ 8:10 AM

The era of playing subtext from both sides ("it's there only if you lesbians want to see it and give us your undying fanatical devotion, or if you frat boys want a good wank") is over. That strategy was never coherent from a narrative point of view, only from the context of audience reception. I think this show is the perfect example of why it simply won't work anymore. The game has been played out. Are the characters attracted to one another, or aren't they? The writers ought to know, even if the characters don't yet. If the writers can't commit, then whatever dynamic they are trying to develop between Rizzoli & Isles is doomed to senseless confusion. The writers can only rescue the character's integrity by honestly exploring the possibility of attraction and either a) rejecting it for clear, character-driven reasons or b) going with it, where ever that leads them.



I just can't help it, the show screams lesbian buddy cop show, it just doesn't know it yet, and yes I know it will never really go there not really truely but honestly I think it would be a far better show if it did.


First off I like this show. I like both leads. I feel a good "buddy" chemistry between Alexander and Harmon. It is very possible a deeper more meaningful relationship could grow between these two character that neither thought was coming especially if both are ostensibly straight; however the "dyke" comment last week and the "not married or dating implications" about the Rizzoli character last week did make me wonder if this is the direction they are panning to take with Jane. That does not necessarily have to translate into Jane and Maura getting it on! Depending where the S/L goes and how the writers develop the romantic relationship, it could work but don't expect it to be confirmed until the last episode of the last season. Developing a "love interest" between the leads is a sure kill for a series. They don't work, never have and never will unless the show starts out that way. Historically look at Remmington Steel, Scarecrow and Mrs. King, Moonlighting (the list is endless but those shows really stand out for me)- each of these had almost an antagonistic relationship between the leads that really worked. Everyone saw the chemistry and fans wanted a relationship to develop between the characters. Once the characters crossed the line into romance, the shows jumped the shark, were doomed, did not last and were cancelled in the same year.

I personally would like it much more if the Jane character actually did "come out". I think the possibility for advancing this s/l especially if Maura remains "really straight" would be highly entertaining. I would love to see a show where a gay woman and a straight women were really great friends and worked well together. It is not impossible for two women to be friends, love each other and not cross the sexual boundary! Unfortunately men don't understand that. There could even be some comic relief if Maura began trying to hook Jane up with other gay women that all ended in disaster.
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#278

jennifer6973

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Posted Jul 31, 2010 @ 12:39 PM

I know Donnie Wahlberg has his own show but is there any chance he can make an appearance soon? That last scene with his character and Rizzoli was my favorite of the episode. Other than that - this show is not clicking for me. I don't even think the "chemistry" between the leads is really all that. The cases aren't that interesting and sometimes, Rizzoli's attitude is a bit too much - especially with the Donnie Wahlberg character. I DVR this show but it's taking me longer and longer to get around to watching it.




He said he taped two shows, and right now he is taping his new show in NYC, so I don't think he's got the time right now.
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#279

spenserscampi

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Posted Jul 31, 2010 @ 12:43 PM

I would love to see a show where a gay woman and a straight women were really great friends and worked well together. It is not impossible for two women to be friends, love each other and not cross the sexual boundary! Unfortunately men don't understand that. There could even be some comic relief if Maura began trying to hook Jane up with other gay women that all ended in disaster.


Ain't going to happen on this show but I would watch a show based on the lesbian and straight great friends premise, providing that they get the right actresses. My dream pairing would be Lucy Lawless and Paget (I'll be available soon) Brewster!

Back to the topic at hand, right now I think that everyone involved with the show is trying to hard. Now that they have a second season hopefully everyone will settle in and give us an entertaining show.
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#280

Niuxita

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Posted Jul 31, 2010 @ 1:19 PM

I personally would like it much more if the Jane character actually did "come out". I think the possibility for advancing this s/l especially if Maura remains "really straight" would be highly entertaining. I would love to see a show where a gay woman and a straight women were really great friends and worked well together. It is not impossible for two women to be friends, love each other and not cross the sexual boundary! Unfortunately men don't understand that. There could even be some comic relief if Maura began trying to hook Jane up with other gay women that all ended in disaster.


While I disagree with you about shows jumping the shark as soon as the leads get together (personally, I think that's an urban legend with no basis in facts (I don't count Moonlighting, since that show had a shit ton of reasons why it failed that had nothing to do with the leads getting together)), I agree that a show like the one you describe above would be awesome to watch, but highly unlikely for two reasons:

1) Network TV execs seem to believe that female characters cannot be interesting lead characters if there's no possibility of hooking them up with a guy sometime in the future. Hence why most lesbian characters on network shows have been one-off plot devices brought in around sweeps to make out with a regular female character only for said regular to realize that she's still straight. You can count on one hand the shows with regular lesbian characters who have retained their sexuality (ie. never hooked up with a male character) for the duration of the show. The same does not seem to be true for gay male characters, who are allowed to have love lives for more than two episodes (Kevin and Scotty on Brothers & Sisters, Mitchell and Cameron on Modern Family, Will on Will & Grace).

2) I'm sad to say that Angie Harmon would probably bail on this show faster than you could say "subtext" if she got wind that the writers had this planned out for her character. Alas.

It doesn't bother me, though. I'm one of the few who thinks the chemistry between the two leads is fantastic and I'm so happy to finally have a show on TV who supposedly focuses on the witty banter and quirky differences between two female characters. If they keep their interactions like they were in the latest ep, I will watch this faithfully until (God forbid) either one of them is written off (and, if it's Isles, something less gruesome than a bullet to the head would be nice, show).

Edited by Niuxita, Jul 31, 2010 @ 1:22 PM.

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#281

callietwo

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Posted Jul 31, 2010 @ 2:27 PM

I personally would like it much more if the Jane character actually did "come out". I think the possibility for advancing this s/l especially if Maura remains "really straight" would be highly entertaining. I would love to see a show where a gay woman and a straight women were really great friends and worked well together. It is not impossible for two women to be friends, love each other and not cross the sexual boundary! Unfortunately men don't understand that. There could even be some comic relief if Maura began trying to hook Jane up with other gay women that all ended in disaster.


Oh, this is a show I would love! (in the right writer's hands, of course!) It could be so much fun to watch a show like that!

I'm one of the few who thinks the chemistry between the two leads is fantastic and I'm so happy to finally have a show on TV who supposedly focuses on the witty banter and quirky differences between two female characters. If they keep their interactions like they were in the latest ep, I will watch this faithfully until (God forbid) either one of them is written off (and, if it's Isles, something less gruesome than a bullet to the head would be nice, show)


I am okay with the show but there are some significant issues that have all been pretty much written already. It is not 'must see' TV, but it's on the DVR and will catch it when/if I have the time. But if I miss it and forget to set DVR it's no big deal. I do like the two lead characters interaction well enough. But they do need some fine tuning of the show and the Cases of the week so far have been incredibly lame.
I can't imagine that this series has helped the sales of the books... I sure don't think I'll be rushing out to check them out, for sure.
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#282

Seana James

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Posted Jul 31, 2010 @ 3:54 PM

...however the "dyke" comment last week and the "not married or dating implications" about the Rizzoli character last week did make me wonder if this is the direction they are panning to take with Jane. That does not necessarily have to translate into Jane and Maura getting it on! Depending where the S/L goes and how the writers develop the romantic relationship, it could work but don't expect it to be confirmed until the last episode of the last season...


This is how Olivia started out on Law and Order: SVU if I recall correctly: constantly being hit on by women or called a dyke. And we all know where that went....

I can't really believe Ms Republican Party Stalwart, Angie Harmon, would agree to play a character heading down that road, either.
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#283

ArianaX

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Posted Jul 31, 2010 @ 4:16 PM

Once the characters crossed the line into romance, the shows jumped the shark, were doomed, did not last and were cancelled in the same year.

Weirdly enough, I thought Remington Steele ultimately fizzled out because they should have gone there, it was a natural progression for the characters and most of their interactions wouldn't have been that different if they were actually together. They were supposed to go there, actually, and I think it was Stephanie Zimbalist who insisted they didn't, that it would have the shark jumping effect, instead not going there actually seemed to make the show, and the characters, stagnate.

As for this show, I think there would be more of a subtext-y vibe for me if they did have that antagonistic relationship. That was part of what made her relationship with Cindy in WMC lean in that direction. The two of them on this show come across to me like people trying to be buddies when neither of them counts interpersonal relationships as one of their strong suits.

I would actually say, though, that I could just as easily, if not more, buy into Maura being bisexual and having a very matter-of-fact attitude about it. But even if Harmon would allow something like that to happen, then in all likelihood, it would cause some tension between the girls and ramp up some tension between them and then it would go full circle back into subtextville.

I do hope, though, that they are planning some kind of growth arc for the characters that isn't just all about either or both of them finding a guy. I don't think it would take too long for that to get old. But if they went there, I'd still be more interested in it being explored with Maura and having her figuring out how to relate to someone in a relationship.

It would also be fun to see how Jane reacted to it, if it happened like that, because subtext or not, I think she'd wind up being a little jealous, because I get the feeling that for some reason Jane likes being the one living person that she really relates to and is comfortable with.
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#284

nelblu

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Posted Jul 31, 2010 @ 6:24 PM

Explains a bunch, especially how limited she is as an actor.


I don't think Angie Harmon's being a Republican is the reason she's a limited actress. Of course, if she ever decides to switch parties, and then suddenly displays talents rivaling those of Meryl Streep, I guess you might have a point :)
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#285

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Posted Jul 31, 2010 @ 6:57 PM

I think viewers make a lot of presumptions about AH's willingness to act in certain things without basis. Frankly, if her ideology mattered that much, a lot of people here wouldn't have bothered with the show in the first place. It isn't relevant to her abilities and we don't know (at least, I don't) that she wouldn't go this route. I'm presuming she'll go where the storyline takes her and if she doesn't like it, she'll take it up with the writers. She's the lead actress here, that's her prerogative, and that's also what fanfiction is for. God knows it wouldn't be the first time an actor was like, "My character is not gay or bi" when their demeanor screamed it from the rooftops. As far as I know, Mariska Hargitay isn't a Republican and she's definitely made her feelings known.
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#286

A Bit Out of It

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Posted Jul 31, 2010 @ 7:44 PM

Just watched the first three episodes, and I'm enjoying the show. Not must-see, but I'll stick with it for a while. Not a big AH fan, but she seems to be doing okay with Rizzoli. Never saw Sasha Alexander before, but Isles is interesting. Liking the "I'll get dressed up so everyone will think I'm normal" scenario. And Rizzoli's parents add to the show for me.
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#287

possibilities

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Posted Aug 1, 2010 @ 4:39 AM

This is how Olivia started out on Law and Order: SVU if I recall correctly: constantly being hit on by women or called a dyke. And we all know where that went....

I don't watch SVU and I have no idea-- where did it go?

I think the only interesting thing about this show is the realtionship between Rizzoli and Isles. It's like MONK, in that the mysteries are silly to stupid, and if they want people to watch, they need to give us something interesting in terms of characters.
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#288

TWoP Howard

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Posted Aug 1, 2010 @ 5:48 AM

Posters, please donít drag Angie Harmonís politics into the thread, especially if youíre using it as an excuse to take pot shots at one party or another. Itís been pretty thoroughly discussed since the very beginning of the thread, so unless she says something new about it in relation to the show, or it is brought up on the show, drop it, please.

#289

izabella

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Posted Aug 1, 2010 @ 11:33 AM

I just can't help it, the show screams lesbian buddy cop show, it just doesn't know it yet,


It doesn't scream that to me. I didn't pick up on any lesbian overtones, undertones, subtext, nothing. Just because the show has two female leads doesn't automatically scream lesbians to me. Had I not read it here, the thought never would have occurred to me based on their behavior with each other.

And I really don't want them to go there, either. I hate UST between show leads, and unless they start them off as a couple, like with Hart to Hart, with a strong idea of how their relationship works, I think writers tend to screw up relationships.

And they tend to screw up the characters when they put them into relationships. Look at how instantly giggly and foolish and stupid Rizzoli became during that set-up dinner date at her mother's house! It didn't take even 5 minutes of her with a potential romance to completely alter her character. I have no interest in seeing Rizzoli and Isles bumbling and fumbling and giggling around each other because of UST.

I was hoping this would be a smart and clever show with two smart and clever women as leads, each an expert in their own area. I'm still waiting for the smart and clever here, so the last thing I want the writers to attempt is romance when they aren't even good with the main premise of the show.

Edited by izabella, Aug 1, 2010 @ 11:37 AM.

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#290

mandigirl

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Posted Aug 1, 2010 @ 1:36 PM

It doesn't scream that to me. I didn't pick up on any lesbian overtones, undertones, subtext, nothing. Just because the show has two female leads doesn't automatically scream lesbians to me. Had I not read it here, the thought never would have occurred to me based on their behavior with each other.

Ditto. I was so surprised when I came on here and read that people were seeing that. Maybe it's something that was played out in the book? Because I definitely didn't see it on the screen, JMO.

So far liking the show quite a bit. Still not sure how I feel about Isles' whole schtick. I find it very uneven too. But I do like the chemistry of the cast.
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#291

Niuxita

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Posted Aug 1, 2010 @ 6:51 PM

No one's saying that Rizzoli and Isles MUST be lesbians solely because they happen to be the two female leads of a TV show; merely that, if there ever existed a TV show whose bickering leads were two women who would eventually have UST with each other (in the vein of a female/female version of Castle or Bones or other similar shows), their interactions would be a lot like R&I's, at least IMO. Obviously, this is a MMV thing.

I guess this is what happens when TV finally decides to tackle the female/female partnership in a sea of male/male or male/female partnerships, we start projecting our wishful thinking onto them.
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#292

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Posted Aug 1, 2010 @ 7:26 PM

Mystery! Guns! Hot women who work closely together! They have brains! Why wouldn't I want them to be gay? It's a show for pretend and playing around with the narrative is what it's there for. It's just a way to look at traditional, garden-variety media through my own world view, and it's fun!
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#293

pennben

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Posted Aug 2, 2010 @ 1:11 AM

Ditto. I was so surprised when I came on here and read that people were seeing that. Maybe it's something that was played out in the book? Because I definitely didn't see it on the screen, JMO.


It isn't in the source material of the book either. I just don't think it is the story this show seeks to tell, nor was it the story in the books upon which it is based. But, I don't begrudge anyone who wants to filter it through their own lens, so long as I get to set my own focus for viewing.

Edited by pennben, Aug 2, 2010 @ 1:14 AM.

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#294

caseylane

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Posted Aug 2, 2010 @ 12:16 PM

I think part if the reason people see the lesbian overtones is because Rizzoil isn't your typical TV female. She isn't wearing makeup or heels. She's more of a tomboy than anything. Based in the TV universe, tomboy (especially pretty tomboys) must be closeted lesbians.

Also the fact that in the very first episode they had the women together in bed added to that vibe. They also, while they were in bed, talked about showing their "tits" to a guy, which bring up thoughts of them naked together. It scene may have been non-sexual but there is a standard joke about the "sleepover and pillow fight" leading to more.

The show will not go there, and TPTB can deny it until the cows come home, but that little nugget was put there for men. Probably in the hope some men would watch a show they might otherwise dismiss as a chick show.

Edited by caseylane, Aug 2, 2010 @ 12:19 PM.

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#295

QueenBee78

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Posted Aug 2, 2010 @ 2:25 PM

I have read the first two books in this series, The Surgeon & The Apprentice. The Surgeon especially is a really intense thriller. I waited until I finished The Apprentice to check out this show, since I didn't want to be spoiled.

I turned off episode 1 half way through.

Angie Harmon is NOT Jane Rizzoli. She is far too pretty, but I thought I could get past that if they got everything else right. And the carefree family dynamic in that first scene? Not at all how the Rizzoli clan is depicted in the books----especially the mother who constantly belittles Jane's career. And, as of the end of book 2, Isles is not a BFF by a long shot. A respected ME, yes. They work the case together, yes. But, book Jane doesn't have friends, much less a social life. In a Barnes & Noble extra for the e-reader, they have a discussion with the author, who admits that while she was writing The Surgeon, she fully intended to kill Jane off at the end, but as she was writing the story, she came to understand and respect the character more. And her character does grow a lot in the second book.

I really don't understand why they skipped over the events of The Surgeon---that book in itself could have made a great season of the show. But, then I guess they couldn't have had a female buddy drama, since Isles really isn't in book 1.

So, if you sort of like what you see in the show, but something feels off--read the books!
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#296

GoAggies89

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Posted Aug 2, 2010 @ 6:38 PM

QueenBee, keep reading the books. Jane definitely develops a bit of a "social life" and she and Isles do get to be friends. I do agree that the TV characters are very different from the book ones, but so far I like them both. I agree that TVJane's family dynamic is much different from BookJane, but I like the TV dynamic, and it brings more warmth to Jane (IMHO).

It might be kind of a TrueBlood thing. The TV show is same characters, separate universe. As someone who really enjoys the books, I'm happy the TV one isn't following their course to the letter, because a couple of characters get bogged down in a relationship really early in the books and I'm not nearly ready for that to happen in the TV show.
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#297

ArianaX

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Posted Aug 2, 2010 @ 10:44 PM

Here’s an [snip] article about a future episode sort of connected to the topic at hand.

Weirdly enough, I could see a twisted logic in trying something like this as both the subtexty tease while also trying to reaffirm that she doesn't really have any interest in girls. Of course, that doesn't mean it might read as something a with a lot more gray area. But all in all, I'm not sure how I feel about the idea of an episode like that.

I wasn't particularly thrilled with tonight's episode. I missed her weird ringtone for her mom, because I thought that was an interesting and creative aspect of the character. It seems like each episode that goes along takes a little bit away from the uniqueness of the characters as they were presented in the pilot and just makes it more and more a formulaic buddy/procedural. The problem being it was Jane and her partner and not Jane and Maura. That makes sense logically, but it's not nearly as interesting to watch.

They seem to struggle with ways to get Maura involved in more of the casework. It seems like they have to arrange a lot of pseudo-date-like meetings for them to add her most of the time. Like the final scene, when she could have just as easily been in the hospital for the girl's release, seeing as how she was the one live victim. That could have even played on her discomfort with the whole idea of a live patient, which could have been a much more solid point to the ep if we'd actually gotten to see it rather than just her mentioning it to Jane.

Edited by TWoP Howard, Aug 3, 2010 @ 12:51 AM.
Episode synopses and titles aren’t spoilers

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#298

DEM

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Posted Aug 3, 2010 @ 12:59 AM

I think part if the reason people see the lesbian overtones is because....

I think the reason some people see sexual chemistry between R&I is... the same reason that -- regardless of writers' intent -- other people have seen sexual chemistry between just about every lead-f/m pairing in every other show ever known to humankind. Ever.

In other news: This latest ep (#4) veered into Touched By A CBS-land. Didn't care for that, really.

Edited by DEM, Aug 3, 2010 @ 1:09 AM.

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#299

TWoP Howard

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Posted Aug 3, 2010 @ 2:05 AM

Posters, time to bring the discussion back to the latest episode. DEM summed it up pretty well, I think.

#300

chran

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Posted Aug 3, 2010 @ 3:24 AM

I'm done with this show for good. I turned off the episode at the 20 minute mark, because I just didn't give a fuck about her mom's car trouble. What the hell, show?
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