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The Borgias: The Popes Get Nekkid!


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#1111

Princess Aldrea

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Posted Apr 17, 2012 @ 1:30 PM

Which so is Juan. Apparently he can be can be one but his bride can't no matter who she's connected to

As Juan would be quick to point out, the Pope declared that they weren't bastards anymore so he and his siblings are perfectly legitimate.

I don't know how often the noble class washed their hair,

Didn't she do so more often than the average noble?

But he would’ve probably still balked at the idea actually marrying her, as he did when they offered in the first place.

I still think he loves her but that, yes, he'd still not be willing to marry her for being a bastard. And speaking of double standards...you'd think he'd care more that his brother's wife is a whore in his book.
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#1112

Imonrey

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Posted Apr 17, 2012 @ 3:14 PM

I did kind of like the other whore, the one that kept following Paolo around when he first arrived in Rome.

I thought they were the same person, the spy and Paolo's "friend."

No, there were two women - the one who followed Paola around on his first day, and then there was another that joined her in spying on him and Lucrezia when they met at midnight. The second one was the one who was killed. I wondered if the first whore would come back into play because Paolo told her he had a son with Lucrezia, so there's still someone out there who knows.
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#1113

blackwing

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Posted Apr 17, 2012 @ 3:59 PM

So I just started watching the Season 1 DVD. I have seen Tom Fontana's version of the story, which aired on a European pay channel and is available for streaming on Netflix. It's hard for me not to compare the two.

I think the visuals of the Showtime version are better but I find the writing and acting to be fairly mediocre. Jeremy Irons is decent but overall I just find the show so boring. I particularly dislike the actor who plays Juan. He plays Juan as a spoiled brat. The Juan from the other version was portrayed as confident and reckless and arrogant, which is a lot different than bratty.

I'm only two episodes in, but I'm hoping it gets a lot better and a lot more exciting.
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#1114

ElymianDucat

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Posted Apr 17, 2012 @ 10:23 PM

Meanwhile he didn't want any of his dad's suggestions either? What exactly is he looking for?

An actual legitimate princess is what he said in that episode. If they follow history he’ll actually end up marrying a cousin of Ferdinand the Catholic.

Edited by ElymianDucat, Apr 17, 2012 @ 10:29 PM.

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#1115

Vega01

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Posted Apr 18, 2012 @ 12:35 AM

I don't know how often the noble class washed their hair, but I'm guessing she would have98% more frizz than the luxuriant locks we're seeing. Hell, even the 1960s wouldn't have products to tame those curls


I'm sure that, no matter how good or bad her hair would fair by our standards of today, her hair must have looked precious and especially well cared for to the women of that era. That's why I never mind in movies when they portray the noble women with beautiful shampoo commercial hair.
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#1116

roseandthedoc37

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Posted Apr 18, 2012 @ 9:47 AM

The Juan from the other version was portrayed as confident and reckless and arrogant, which is a lot different than bratty.


Well last season my impression of him was that he was kind of an arrogant womanizer who only cared about having a good time, not living up to any expectations for his family. He went along with what was asked of him, like killing that guy from the middle east with Cesare leading the way, but I saw him as shallow, and not very bright. This season he's more of a spoiled Prince, vindictive jerk, who is out to punish his brother, and I guess, now sister.

All at once he seems more of a person who puts things into play, or orchestrates them, less like a guy who follows orders, and whines. How did he know where Paolo was anyhow? His turn to evil jackass is a little sudden for me. Cesare is the master manipulator, Juan hasn't seemed to carry the weight of the world on his shoulders, more just not to care. The producer of the show said Juan is damaged, but Cesare is incapable of love, sorry, not seeing that. More like their showing us Juan is.

Edited by roseandthedoc37, Apr 18, 2012 @ 9:48 AM.

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#1117

Princess Aldrea

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Posted Apr 18, 2012 @ 11:22 AM

He went along with what was asked of him, like killing that guy from the middle east with Cesare leading the way, but I saw him as shallow, and not very bright.

Cesare leading the way? Do you mean when Juan already tried to poison him but used an idiot and so Cesare told him to kill him quicker? Killing him was all Juan's initiative since Rodrigo ordered it but didn't have any other involvement and Cesare wouldn't because Lucrezia loved him.

This season he's more of a spoiled Prince, vindictive jerk, who is out to punish his brother, and I guess, now sister.

I can understand his frustration. Everyone thinks Cesare would be better at his job and he was really disgraced against the French even though I don't see how anyone could have done better under those circumstances.

How did he know where Paolo was anyhow?

He showed up drunk to his mother's house to ask his mother about Paolo and he heard the baby crying. From there, it's not hard to reason that since Cesare wouldn't let him inside and he had no real reason not to if something shady wasn't going down and since Lucrezia and the baby were missing Paolo was probably at the mother's house. From there, they just wait for him to leave. And if Paolo hadn't been there then that's just a few wasted hours and Juan might not have to kill him for ruining his sister.

The producer of the show said Juan is damaged, but Cesare is incapable of love, sorry, not seeing that.

Do they mean period or incapable of loving anyone but his sister? Because they will never convince me that he doesn't love her (possibly more than he should).
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#1118

BloodyCharity

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Posted Apr 19, 2012 @ 1:08 PM

As for Rodrigo assigning tasks to his mistresses, I really can't imagine neither of them is particularly unhappy about it. In an era where bookkeeping, art, crafts and engineering were very much dudes-only professions, trusting those tasks to a woman was a very rare privilege. Giulia gets to use her obviously extremely sharp intellect to something else than securing a lover/protector, and Vittoria could only have dreamed of the kind of assignments she's getting in His Holiness's service in Bramante's bottega. I also expect she's getting paid, or at the very least her quality of life has vastly improved.

ETA: Who said Cesare is incapable of love and where? Because it pretty much goes against a lot of other things the production team and actors have said, and would also mean Francois Arnaud is playing his character all wrong. I mean, real!Cesare was probably something of a sociopath who didn't give a rat's ass about anyone except his sister, and I expect they might be going down the same path in the series even though they've mellowed him down quite a bit in comparison to his real life counterpart. He very obviously adores Lucrezia, though, and that's very much intentional in the series.

Edited by BloodyCharity, Apr 19, 2012 @ 1:15 PM.

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#1119

roseandthedoc37

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Posted Apr 19, 2012 @ 5:22 PM

Cesare leading the way? Do you mean when Juan already tried to poison him but used an idiot and so Cesare told him to kill him quicker? Killing him was all Juan's initiative since Rodrigo ordered it but didn't have any other involvement and Cesare wouldn't because Lucrezia loved him

Sorry been awhile, I just remembered that the two had no problem with Rodrigo's request and thought Cesare was the one taking orders from his dad.

I actually had felt sorry for Juan, because Cesare constantly pointed out, and still does that Juan's only talent is sexing women. I even understand him wanting to prove himself in the sword fight, but cheating in the horse race was a little much.

BloodyCharity I cannot find on the showtime site anymore where Neal Jordan discussed the characters it was before the premiere.
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#1120

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Posted Apr 22, 2012 @ 10:16 PM

That kicked ass! I have to be honest, I wasn't really feeling this season after the first two episodes, but this one was a real edge of the seat kind of thing. Between Lucrezia almost killing Juan and the whole thing with the fake cannons I was enthralled. My show is back! Now I remember why I liked this thing so much last year. I could still do without Vittorio/Vittoria - although now it looks like Cesare might be interested in her. Maybe that means the end of Ursula/Martha? Hope springs eternal. But by far, the best bit was Cesare's little game with King Charles and the fake cannons. That was awesome, I was spellbound. Literally, I think I was holding my breath to see if he'd fall for it.

Of all the great shows I have to keep track of on Sunday night, this one beat the pants off all the others and that includes my favorite, Game of Thrones. Have to give it an A+.
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#1121

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Posted Apr 22, 2012 @ 10:27 PM

Cesare definitely had chemistry with Vittorio, although I didn't get the sense that he was interested. The bit with the cannons had me holding my breath also with a big sigh of relief when it was over. Rodrigo needs to kiss Cesare's hand for that scheme.

As for Lucrezia I really never bought her as in love with Paolo last season so I am surprised that she is willing to attempt the murder of her brother over his death, even though Juan was guilty. She grew up with Juan and knew Paolo for a short time so I just don't get it.
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#1122

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Posted Apr 22, 2012 @ 10:58 PM

Cesare definitely had chemistry with Vittorio


Yeah, I wondered if I was seeing something that wasn't there. Good confirmation that others felt that too.

Liked the cannon rouse...I don't know that I totally realized no one but Vittorio, Cesare and Micheletto knew the cannons were plaster.

Catherina Sforza is quite an interesting figure...I think I'd like to find out a little more about her...these Sforzas just keep showing up and she seems like the strongest of the bunch.

Half of Cesare's job this episode (beside, you know, saving Rome) was yelling for a medic. Geez. Did love Lucrezia's revenge with the candle. Kinda f'ed up that that random chick (prostitute?) paid the price.

I liked the scene btw Rodrigo and Juan alone. Juan hugging his father, while Rodrigo got his confession and explained his future to him, all while Juan's left hand was going crazy with anger. Really nicely framed scene and good work by David Oakes and Jeremy Irons.

Felt like a really action packed night (as GoT was hot too). Can't wait to see where we go from here.
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#1123

ElymianDucat

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Posted Apr 22, 2012 @ 11:00 PM

I get a great kick out of the fact that while the historical Lucrezia had an (undeserved and false) reputation as a subtle poisoner, on this show, her go to tool is physical violence.

If Lucrezia Borgia wants to fuck you up… she will Fuck.You.Up. And in an extremely physically violent way. She broke Giovanni Sforza’s leg and she dropped a wrought iron chandelier on top of Juan.

It’s like there’s a psycho switch somewhere in Lucrezia’s head, and whenever that thing gets flipped on, someone is in for a world of hurt.

Edited by ElymianDucat, Apr 22, 2012 @ 11:02 PM.

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#1124

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Posted Apr 23, 2012 @ 12:11 AM

I don't know that I totally realized no one but Vittorio, Cesare and Micheletto knew the cannons were plaster.

And all those people Micheletto had to threaten. I love him. I shouldn't because he is terrible but he's just so loyal to Cesare and, as the only competent one around, he needs all the help he can get. I'm actually more surprised these days when he doesn't kill someone, such as that retiring spy. And why did the guy Micheletto had to kill think it was a good idea to broadcast that their cannons were a bluff? Too dumb to live, no symapathy. Although I do wonder, if everyone else thought the cannons were real, why they were so worried. Real cannons could decimate the army in well less than twelve hours.

If Lucrezia Borgia wants to fuck you up… she will Fuck.You.Up.

I love this and it's true.

I really loved this episode. Vittorio didn't annoy me this episode, probably because she actually has chemistry with Cesare. I love how Cesare's reaction to her being female is basically "Rome is weird. Don't want to know about my father's sex life. Good luck with the fake cannons." I thought she was going to pass out when she first got the order for one hundred cannons.

Cesare was just so amazingly amazing this episode. I mean, he's my favorite character overall but his blase reaction to the fact that Vittoria is actually Vittoria, the fact that he didn't have to sexually assault her in order to believe this, his threatening peasants to get them to back off of Lucrezia, and the way that he actually seemed concerned about Juan (who doesn't deserve it) pinned under a chandelier were wonderful. I also liked how he pleaded with his father to just trust him for once and then totally pulled off his crazy scheme. And he got to be the hero for once and acknowledged for being so much better than Juan and now eveyrone loves him. And after the cardinas had such doubt, too! And the cannon in the library...so much love. I also love how it never crossed Lucrezia's mind that Cesare may have played a part in Paolo's death.

Juan, however, failed epically. Again. Is he so far removed from peasant life it never occured to him that Paolo couldn't read? That seems pretty obvious. And his "I confess...that I did nothing" that made his father attack him. He couldn't even properly apologize to his sister or keep it down after killing her lover. And he was even an ass in the chandelier scene with no concern whatsoever for the girl who was dying but not yet dead on top of him when he was all "Ew! Get it off! Get it off!"

Also it was a nice contrast with Juan returning from his first battle in defeat and Cesare not even needing to fight.

I loved how the Pope actually managed to make the cardinals stay put (though what was that one guy on about how he couldn't expect them to stay put again? They all fled the first time). I think they have much more faith in the Pope and joy at their deliverance for staying. And Rodrigo reclaiming his real name was badass, too. I don't know why Juan was ever the favorite but I'm hoping that Juan's banishment and Cesare's badassness changes this. I was glad to see some concern for Lucrezia here and how she was able to get Paolo the proper burial that Juan was so sest on denying him.

I love how Giulia and Lucrezia left the Pope to flock to Cesare at the end.

And enemies of the Borgia have got to stop teaming up with the French. They're only ever going to let them down. At least Della Rovere (who sadly did nothing this episode) learned that lesson. I recently rewatched the first episode and he was hilarious and brilliant in it. I sort of wish he and the Pope would face off, though. It would be epic.

And I do wonder how long this series will last. Will it end with the Pope's death? Shortly afterwards? When Cesare dies? When? I hope it doesn't end tragically even though pretty much everything back then did.
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#1125

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Posted Apr 23, 2012 @ 5:35 AM

Oh, Cesare... you scorchingly hot Magnificent Bastard you! Please, let me help you out of those delectably tight leather pants, I bet your huge balls are very uncomfortable so restricted.

Man, he made the entire french army, the French king, the Sforzas and in a way all of Rome (his father and cardinals included) his bitches with nothing but plaster and sheer cojones! Just as well Juan wasn't there anymore, he would've had a mental breakdown. Rodrigo himself, not a shrinking violet, looked a bit like he had soiled himself in the reveal scene (Giulia and Lucrezia, on the other hand, made it look a bit like another threesome was in the works... just saying, those were some very euphoric, affectionate ladies.)

I also liked Cesare with Vittoria, who for the first time looked competent, engaged and not harrassed: please, if they want to keep her around they'd better go on in this veing of a smart lady trying to have a rewarding career in the artistic field, it's way more interesting and Rodrigo can just have random trollops to warm his bed in addition to Giulia.
It was a bit hilarious that Cesare's reaction was "He's a she? Fuck. My. Life. Why does weird shit keep happening around here? Still, about those cannons..."

Speaking of awesome ladies... Lucrezia Motherfucking Borgia! "You killed my babydaddy, prepare to have a chandelier drop on you." That little sigh she gave when she heard the smash was truly fucking psychotically terrifying in the most fantastic possible way, compound by how much of a shit she didn't give about whether or not she'd gotten her intended victim: dead Juan or dead hooker + mentally scarred Juan, it's all the same.
And then we see her merrily giggling with Cesare at Juan's hasty departure. I'm now convinced that, had it been possible for those two to marry each other, they would have taken over Europe, screw Italy.

On another, less murderously inclined, versant, Lucrezia falling to pieces over Paolo was devastating, no matter what one might have felt over that relationship. She's still a young girl, a new mother, somewhat resigned that even if her first marriage was a nightmare her father will eventually sell her off again and she had just said goodby forever to the father of her child and a good guy who hade genuinely loved her and be good to her, only to see her sacrifice be for nothing. She didn't even manage to keep him safe from her own family. I can understand she fell apart and it was awful to watch those scenes, HG nailed the glassy, unseeing stare of a shatterd person.
Though, we have to notice, even in her state she managed to wrangle her father into submission and secure for her Narcissus a decent Christian funeral.
Don't. Fuck. With. Lucrezia.

And finally, we see again Magificent Bitch Caterina Sforza, yet another lady who gets shit done. I have to admit, for a show made 25% of naked women and titillation, about a rather mysogynistic period, we get a good number of great female characters on The Borgias. It's probably one of the reasons I love it so much.
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#1126

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Posted Apr 23, 2012 @ 8:23 AM

The Catholic Nerd in me cringed a bit when Cardinal Della Rovere said that he might join the Capuchins. The Capuchins though - a strict branch from the original Franciscan order - were founded in 1520, long after the events portrayed. I know, I know - the show doesn't get everything right and takes liberties for entertainment or better story, but still.

Anyway, I LOVED the episode! From Micheletto's knives to Caesare's acceptance of Vittorio, I was enthralled. The standoff scene with King Charles and the Sforzas had me literally holding my breath! I can only hope they continue this throughout the season.

Edited by Benedictine, Apr 23, 2012 @ 9:13 AM.

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#1127

Princess Aldrea

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Posted Apr 23, 2012 @ 8:31 AM

I don't understand why everyone was acting like Lucrezia not feeding her child was a death sentence. Just because he had never fed any other way doesn't mean they couldn't have found a freaking wet nurse.
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#1128

arcadia63

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Posted Apr 23, 2012 @ 8:51 AM

The Capuchins though - a strict branch from the original Franciscan order - were founded in 1520, long after the events portrayed.


I could be wrong but i think he was jokingly referring to joining the order of Capuchin MONKEYS. He could have gotten the idea cause his monkey was from there, in which case, (as you said)the writers made a mistake.

Edited by arcadia63, Apr 23, 2012 @ 8:57 AM.

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#1129

mac123x

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Posted Apr 23, 2012 @ 9:37 AM

Great show. I love King Charles. Upon being introduced to the Sforza cousins he immediately started mocking Giovanni. Plus Caterina said something (I don't remember what), and he checkled then gave her a look that showed his complete revulsion. You could tell that he's pretty much sick of the whole lot of them.

The entire scene with Lucrezia waling in on Juan en flagrante was hilarious. Neither of them having the slightest embarassment, Juan even stopping in the middle of action to show off which portrait they like the most. I was laughing the whole time. I just wish the promo department hadn't spoiled the ending of the scene.

Rodrigo totally knows the score. If there's a feud between Lucrezia and Juan, he'd better get Juan out of the country or he'll wind up dead. I thought the "I'll serve the wine, brother" bit at Vanozza's house was foreshadowing her future M.O. as a poisoner.

Speaking of Vanozza, she's wearing her hair differently than last season, and it's much more flattering.

The Catholic Nerd in me cringed a bit when Cardinal
Della Rovere said that he might join the Capuchins. The Capuchins though - a strict branch from the original Franciscan order - were founded in 1520, long after the events portrayed. I know, I know - the show doesn't get everything right and takes liberties for entertainment or better story, but still.


He was making a joke based on the species of monkey he has as a food taster. Unfortunately, the species is from the New World and it's named after the order of monks, so it's still an anachronism.
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#1130

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Posted Apr 23, 2012 @ 9:39 AM

Was Lucrezia actually refusing to feed the baby just to get something she wanted?

I'm a little surprised they didn't just get a wet nurse though.
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#1131

BloodyCharity

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Posted Apr 23, 2012 @ 10:42 AM

Was Lucrezia actually refusing to feed the baby just to get something she wanted?

I'm a little surprised they didn't just get a wet nurse though.


Well, she was pretty grief-stricken, traumatized and angry, though, so I don't think she was thinking entirely rationally, about how she could get what she wants or anything else.

The wet nurse thing was a slight plot hole, though, but I can kinda accept it if I conclude they're all too flustered about the situation to make rational decisions. Weak, but could work.
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#1132

Princess Aldrea

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Posted Apr 23, 2012 @ 11:53 AM

The wet nurse thing was a slight plot hole, though, but I can kinda accept it if I conclude they're all too flustered about the situation to make rational decisions. Weak, but could work.

I blame the nurse. Cesare clearly delegated feeding the baby to her and she just had no idea and didn't even try, just complained he was getting a fever from not eating. Is that believable, by the way? I don't recall getting a fever when I don't eat.

I just of something else that Juan is good at besides all the sex (that he has to pay for anyway): play-writing. His reworking of the play at Lucrezia's wedding reception was a rousing success. He should stick to the things he's good at and leave the plotting and over-involvement in Lucrezia's life to Cesare.

Edited by Princess Aldrea, Apr 23, 2012 @ 11:54 AM.

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#1133

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Posted Apr 23, 2012 @ 8:35 PM

I forgot that the show came back already and now I'm all caught up and I have all these feelings!

My first feeling is: what did they do to François Arnaud's hair?! I don't know if it got better in episodes 2 or 3, or I just stopped minding it, but in episode 1 it was jarring.

I hope this show does more with Caterine Sforza, she was such a badass historically, the show must make use of this.

I also hope they do more with Lucrezia. I love her, but the historical Lucrezia managed the city of Rome in her father's name and I feel like the show's Lucrezia is there to look pretty and now to settle personal feuds against the backdrop of international politics and war. Time to get her involved in the "big picture" stuff. I guess I really want that because I'm somethign of a historical!Lucrezia fangirl, I think she's a much more capable woman and, dare I say, role model than casual accounts give her credit for, so it'd be great to see the show go there.

Miscellaneous feelings: Not Alfonso, he was funny! Lucrezia and Cesare are straight-out kissing now (I know the show isn't going to entertain the incest storylines, nor should it, I just think this is hilarious teasing us shippers). I am still bothered as all hell by the fact that they made Vannozza Spanish, even though this is a minor historical infraction compared to what else they've changed.
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#1134

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Posted Apr 23, 2012 @ 9:27 PM

I love badass pissed off Lucrezia. She was very deliberate and calculating, and it made me hope to see her fuck with Juan some more in the future. The giggle she and Cesare shared about the sun shining as Juan left made me love them even more. Detesting Juan is just one more thing that they share.

Cesare's cannon deception was ballsy and brilliant. I loved seeing the family united and rejoicing together. I also liked that Cesare had a "don't ask, don't tell" policy about Vittoria sleeping with Rodrigo. And he's right - he knows she can keep a secret!

Rodrigo may be many things, but I don't doubt that he loves Lucrezia. I was glad that Cesare went to him as soon as he realized that he was out of his depth. The sweet sudden way he panicked when he was carrying her into her room and she said she might as well die too made the shipper in me go awwwwww.
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#1135

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Posted Apr 23, 2012 @ 9:41 PM

Rodrigo may be many things, but I don't doubt that he loves Lucrezia.

It's very refreshing to see a "ye olde days" drama in which the father does not throw a "no daughter of mine is a whore!" type of hissy fit about women having sex. I loved seeing him with Baby Giovanni, too, Rodrigo was a calculating bastard when it came to his kids' marriages, but he was all about family and loved having them around him. Grandpa Pope forcing the French envoy to whisper and being all mad because he "woke up the baby!" was hilariously awesome.
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#1136

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Posted Apr 23, 2012 @ 9:49 PM

Rodrigo definitely had that "my kids will do their duty and marry whoever is most convenient for our family" but it's clear he loves Lucrezia to the point where he would allow Paolo to be buried. I suppose his rationale could be that since he knows it wasn't a suicide, it's okay but still. It could be seen as abusing his Papal power but he can't say no to Lucrezia when it's within his power to say yes. And watching him with Giovanni was totally hilarious!
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#1137

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Posted Apr 24, 2012 @ 11:00 AM

And his "I confess...that I did nothing" that made his father attack him.

The Pope pulled an Evelyn Lozada from Basketball Wives when he leaped onto and over the table to jump on Juan. It was great.

On another, less murderously inclined, versant, Lucrezia falling to pieces over Paolo was devastating, no matter what one might have felt over that relationship. She's still a young girl, a new mother, somewhat resigned that even if her first marriage was a nightmare her father will eventually sell her off again and she had just said goodby forever to the father of her child and a good guy who hade genuinely loved her and be good to her, only to see her sacrifice be for nothing. She didn't even manage to keep him safe from her own family. I can understand she fell apart and it was awful to watch those scenes, HG nailed the glassy, unseeing stare of a shatterd person.

Lucrezia at this point is still only in her teens and Paolo was probably her "first love". Couple that with him being the father of her child, it's understandable that she would lose her shit, especially once she figured out that her idiot brother was behind it.
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#1138

brothertonbanks

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Posted Apr 24, 2012 @ 12:02 PM

Vanozza: Your father is the pope of love.

I'm reading a book called 1494 by Stephen R. Bown where he seems to blame Rodrigo for many of the problems that came because of the treaty between Portugal and Spain dividing the world.
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#1139

roseandthedoc37

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Posted Apr 24, 2012 @ 1:28 PM

[quote] I blame the nurse. Cesare clearly delegated feeding the baby to her and she just had no idea and didn't even try, just complained he was getting a fever from not eating. Is that believable, by the way? I don't recall getting a fever when I don't eat.

I couldn't understand why they waited so long in finding someone to feed the baby, Lucrezia, may not have pulled out of her depression. The baby was really worked up from crying, not eating, and not sleeping perhaps, so its possible he could have felt warm too her.

I loved this episode. Don't mess with Lucrezia. Juan figuring out that little sister was not so innocent was priceless, the look on his face, lol. The poor girl he was bedding though, poor thing. Also loved Juan practically jumping into daddy's lap begging to be forgiven after Rodrigo threatened he may find himself out in the street. I don't understand why he was so against a royal marriage in the first place though? All those woman in the pictures seemed not real attractive except the one he chose, but then maybe likenessnesses can be deceiving. It just makes me think of that one wife of Henry the 8th who he claimed had a face like a cow or something in person when he met her. Her portrait was more flattering.

The cannon fake out was great. I know I should, but I can't dislike King Charles, the guy cracks me up, like his response to the Sforza asking him about whether he should give the order to attack, Wasn't it something like," Do I look crazy too you ? "Now you know we all would be thinking the same thing, lol.

Caterine looks like she's not the backing down type, and though her brother was a jackass I like her her. So where was Mother being kept when the army came up to the city? She wasn't there at the end to congratulate Cesare, only the mistress, really?

So Juan is gone now, like Geoffrey, the forgotten younger sibling? I don't see much tension going on with just the mistresses, Mom, Cesare, and Lucrezia.

I just had to mention, since I know a lot of people are also fans of Game Of Thrones. Last episode made me believe King Geoffery sadistic little jerk, makes Juan look like a Boy Scout.

Edited by roseandthedoc37, Apr 24, 2012 @ 1:46 PM.

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#1140

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Posted Apr 24, 2012 @ 1:54 PM

I don't understand why he was so against a royal marriage in the first place though? All those woman in the pictures seemed not real attractive except the one he chose, but then maybe likenessnesses can be deceiving.

Well, if these women are all so very rich and powerful and are looking for a suitable husband (and the Borgias, for all everyone hates them, are desirable spouses) then they're going to be able to get the best portrait available. If the portrait is ugly then it's a good indication that so is the girl. Juan is obsessed with getting a bride with status and who isn't ugly. But he doesn't want to marry a Spanish bride because he doesn't want to get back to his humble roots. That's how Rodrigo is punishing him for Paolo.

Caterine looks like she's not the backing down type, and though her brother was a jackass I like her her. So where was Mother being kept when the army came up to the city? She wasn't there at the end to congratulate Cesare, only the mistress, really?

I think he's her cousin. And I'm not surprised she wasn't there in the end. It wasn't a 'let's honor Cesare' party. Lucrezia and the mistress went to go congratulate Rodrigo which the mother was not really inclined to do. Cesare went to go find his father and saw them there. I'm sure she'll congratulate him later.

So Juan is gone now, like Geoffrey, the forgotten younger sibling? I don't see much tension going on with just the mistresses, Mom, Cesare, and Lucrezia.

I don't think he's forgotten so much as just moved out to his wife's little fiefdom.

Last episode made me believe King Geoffery sadistic little jerk, makes Juan look like a Boy Scout.

I'm sure if we give Juan time he'll catch up. He needs to earn his eventual murder.
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