257 replies to this topic

[IvyDarling]

From NBC.com:

SEASON FINALE! Zeek tries to make amends with Camille; Sarah seeks advice from Mr. Cyr; Crosby's at a crossroads.

I know it couldn't have happened since the episode was shot a while ago, but I feel as if TPTB really went through all of the comments and thoughts made about the last two episodes on TWoP (especially w/r/t Steve not having any backlash at school and the whole gender dynamics of it).

Glad Kristina grew the hell up (she annoyed me in the beginning) when Amber was in trouble. Her attitude toward Sarah was so fucking juvenile. SMH.

Whoa @ Sarah's rant to Amber. Not cool at all. Sarah fucked up majorly. If she feels that way about Amber, how can she expect other people to feel differently? How can she expect Amber to feel differently? Hell, if anyone needs therapy, it's Sarah. And, really Sarah--hitting your brother's car and not telling him? Not cool. You also need to grow the hell up. Meh,

Really random, but I think it was stupid that Sarah has to ask Adam if he would help Drew practice (realizing that it was a plot device to get Adam/Kristina/Sarah in the room with the tension). Why couldn't Drew ask his own uncle for help? Do you really need a liason to ask your uncle for that, given that they do have an established relationship? IMO, it was really dumb.

Zeek, pride will continue to fuck you over. I really just wanted Camille to give Zeek the old "fuck you" and walk away.

Edited by IvyDarling, May 25, 2010 @ 10:00 PM.

[JessieQ]

My immediate reaction to the Haddie-Amber resolution is a good one, which is nice because I just didn't need the angst over the summer!

[ebeth]

Someone tell me why Crosby doesn't have a lawyer. Is Julia like the only lawyer in Berkeley and she doesn't do family law? Because I'm pretty sure a court would issue orders to keep Jasmine from taking Jabbar out of CA.

[krizmic]

Loved the Haddie/Amber stuff.

The scene on the couch between Lauren and Mae was just beautiful. And you could tell those last few lines about pulling it together were ad-lib.

[bellamn16]

Wow. I will be watching that episode again.

I was about ready to reach through my television screen and inflict serious physical harm on Kristina until she did her 180. It's amazing what a moment of complete terror can do to put things in perspective.

My favorite moment: Drew's facial response to his family doing the wave.

Someone tell me why Crosby doesn't have a lawyer. Is Julia like the only lawyer in Berkeley and she doesn't do family law? Because I'm pretty sure a court would issue orders to keep Jasmine from taking Jabbar out of CA.

I don't have a lawyer. I don't think many young people do until we need one.

I would never ask a family member to defend me in any type of court case...conflict of interest.

And no, a court would probably not issue orders to keep Jasmine from taking Jabbar, because regardless of the circumstances that led to it, Crosby has no physical or legal rights to his son. Crosby would first have to sue for a custody agreement before he could ask for an injunction on the move. Odds are Jasmine would be allowed to move and any custody arrangements would have to be determined after that.

The scene on the couch between Lauren and Mae was just beautiful. And you could tell those last few lines about pulling it together were ad-lib.

That was absolutely adorable and the (presumed) ad lib was the perfect touch. On the rare occasion that my mom or sister and I get into a huge fight, it always ends with some moment of deep awareness...followed by someone (usually me) breaking the tension with some off-hand comment about how ridiculous we are. The best way to declare an end to a fight is with laughter.

Edited by bellamn16, May 25, 2010 @ 10:10 PM.

[IvyDarling]

Because I'm pretty sure a court would issue orders to keep Jasmine from taking Jabbar out of CA.

Why would he do that, though? It's not like he wanted to make either of them stay, he just wanted Jabbar to know that he wasn't abandoning him. IMO, there's no need to drag the court in unnecessarily if Crosby was able to handle everything with Jasmine, which she was totally amenable to (and it wasn't as if she was actively trying to keep Crosby away from Jabbar). Also:

Crosby has no physical or legal rights to his son. Crosby would first have to sue for a custody agreement before he could ask for an injunction on the move

Yup. Crosby has only completed the first step toward some type of legally recognized custody--that is, establishing paternity. He still has a long way to go.

Edited by IvyDarling, May 25, 2010 @ 10:10 PM.

[Marl]

Is it just me, or did Lauren look particularly smokin' tonight? She's always gorgeous, but I think that plaid shirt and skinny black pant plus boots mixed with Lauren's usual allure and the resulting precipitate was VA VA VA VOOM!

*cough*

Well, uh...I'm glad Kristina came around. The dawning of realization when she was on the phone with Adam was all that needed to be done on screen in my opinion. (ETA: Or was it when Sarah came over for Steve's number that she found out Amber was missing? I don't remember.)

Edited by Marl, May 25, 2010 @ 10:17 PM.

[Cosmos2]

Awesome season finale. Something tells me we're into something good.

Zeek may have been right about kicking Timmmm out. I never trusted himmmm anyway. They left us hanging so we don't know yet.

[bellamn16]

I also liked...okay, didn't LIKE, but recognized the significance of the moment when Sarah was asking for Steve's phone number, but refused to tell them why. I saw it as her trying to not throw her problems on Adam anymore...just this once she wanted to solve it on her own...or more so, perhaps for the first time, she didn't think he'd want to help. It was a good moment of clarity for everybody involved that family does come first.

Something tells me we're into something good.

AHHHH Carole King! Loved it. Couldn't tell you who actually made it a hit though.

I was SO HAPPY to see Zeek put Timmmm in his place. Even if Timmmm was honestly trying to help, the type of deal he was offering was obviously going to be on the grey side of the law.

Edited by bellamn16, May 25, 2010 @ 10:16 PM.

[narm]

Why does Erika Christensen yell so slowly? She sounded so weird in that scene was Zeek.

Loved all the scenes with Peter and Lauren. They have the best chemistry.

Is it just me, or did Lauren look particularly smokin' tonight?

Not just you. The woman looked gorgeous.

[YankeesGal]

It's not that I'm not a fan of this show, but I'm just over everything always working out for the Braverman's. Seriously? A season finale should have some angst... something making the viewers want to come back for more. Everything was pretty much resolved - and in a favorable way. Yes, the family is flawed, but since when do all flaws get resolved?

[bellamn16]

Whoa @ Sarah's rant to Amber. Not cool at all. Sarah fucked up majorly. If she feels that way about Amber, how can she expect other people to feel differently? How can she expect Amber to feel differently? Hell, if anyone needs therapy, it's Sarah.

Agree, especially about therapy. I think Sarah did a good job undoing the damage at the end, but therapy would definitely be a good idea!

And, really Sarah--hitting your brother's car and not telling him? Not cool.

You're absolutely right, not cool. But in that moment, with that tension and anger and loathing coming out of Kristina's eyes, ears, nose, and I don't know where else...I would have left too. Probably would have sent him an e-mail. I know, wussy chicken way out...but seriously Kristina, back off!!!

Really random, but I think it was stupid that Sarah has to ask Adam if he would help Drew practice (realizing that it was a plot device to get Adam/Kristina/Sarah in the room with the tension). Why couldn't Drew ask his own uncle for help?

My observation of that chain of events is that Sarah knew Kristina would not be cool with Adam helping Drew and she didn't want Drew to be physically throw into the middle of the Amber/Haddie fight. Instead, she'd ask, knowing the outcome wouldn't be what Drew wanted...and then she'd be the one to break it to him instead of him being let down directly by his aunt and uncle.

[ebeth]

Jesus, I don't have a lawyer either because I've never needed one. But Crosby? When your former one-night stand waltzes up to you and introduces you to your five year-old son, that is the definition of needing a lawyer.

As for physical and legal rights to Jabbar - Crosby does have those rights. He hasn't done anything to enforce them, but the rights are not created by custody agreements, the rights exist. My best, out-of-my-ass, I am not a lawyer, guess is that a court would look very poorly on Jasmine's decision to leave Crosby out of this particular loop and would demand that she provide Crosby with access to his child, including remaining in his general neighborhood rather than moving three thousand miles away. And my understanding is that, without a custody agreement, Crosby could easily pack up Jabbar and take him wherever *he* wanted to. Jasmine should be eager to have this laid out on paper too.

I get that Crosby doesn't want to keep Jasmine from moving, or from this fantastic professional opportunity. It just bugs me when he moons around acting like he's helpless and completely at her mercy and he can't possibly be in Jabbar's life without her permission.

[HeyJuliet]

I was about ready to reach through my television screen and inflict serious physical harm on Kristina until she did her 180. It's amazing what a moment of complete terror can do to put things in perspective.

I don't know, I saw it as more poor writing where they put a band-aid on it for a quick fix. She was absolutely reprehensible for most of the episode, and poor Drew had to pay the price. I get Sarah wanting it to just be over, and the collective relief that everything was, but Haddie and Amber solving their problems that quickly in the diner and then Kristina doing that 180...a little too much cheese for me, personally. But I guess in the end I'm just glad that's over, too.

If I can make a wish list for what I want to see in season two, it's definitely more Julia and her family. She's barely on the show, her family is barely on the show, and there really is a world of potential for them all.

The Crosby/Jasmine storyline is still so frustrating. Jasmine is so self-involved and oblivious. Did she not think of what the move to New York and the distance from his father would do to Jabbar? Earlier in the season she was worried that Crosby would flake after Jabbar was attached, and now? She's just so unlikable. And on the other end of the spectrum, I feel like the writing is trying so hard to make Crosby the good guy that they're skipping over all of the character development necessary for this whole relationship to feel earned, and that on top of everyone involved continually avoiding all of the issues they have is making me detest this whole dynamic.

I'll give the writing a pass because they had a shortened season and weren't positive if they were coming back, but the pacing and storyline weights better improve next year or I'll quickly lose interest.

But Mae and Lauren were awesome together tonight (my favorite scenes). I loved the joke about Sarah drinking and partying when she was Amber's age. "That's why you're so short." Heh.

[IvyDarling]

My observation of that chain of events is that Sarah knew Kristina would not be cool with Adam helping Drew and she didn't want Drew to be physically throw into the middle of the Amber/Haddie fight.

When I saw that, I thought it would have been smart for Drew to do the asking, as I didn't think that Kristina would express the same passive aggressiveness toward him that she did Sarah (Kristina had no issue with Drew). Drew, IMO, would have been sort of a neutralizer if you will.

I was SO HAPPY to see Zeek put Timmmm in his place. Even if Timmmm was honestly trying to help, the type of deal he was offering was obviously going to be on the grey side of the law.

I don't think Zeek went on his rant because of the shadiness of the deal, though. He did it because a) his pride was leading him and b) he really seemed to think that Timm was trying to "deebo" him (aka, punk him for his money). It wasn't some type of fight the power issue, Zeek was just being difficult because he couldn't accept failure. Additionally, I wonder if viewed Timm possibly wanted to get back with Julia through the eyes of someone who had a long term affair and was on the verge of destroying his marriage/family.

As for physical and legal rights to Jabbar - Crosby does have those rights. He hasn't done anything to enforce them, but the rights are not created by custody agreements, the rights exist.

Clearly family law is mainly done by state and is not federal, but I remember reading something in family law (and re-reading when posting on the 16&P thread) that when a child is born to non married parents, custody automatically rests with the mother. If the father wants custody, he has to prove paternity, get some type of court affidavit, and then go through the whole custody/rights process. If that's how it is in CA, then at this point, Crosby doesn't have a whole lot of rights to Jabbar.

ETA: I just looked it up; in CA, an unmarried father gets rights once paternity is established (like through signing something or a paternity test--like Crosby did at Julia's urging). Otherwise, with unmarried fathers, rights are not automatically vested. That said, Crosby does not have custody rights to Jabbar at this time, because unmarried mothers generally have custody automatically.

Edited by IvyDarling, May 25, 2010 @ 10:41 PM.

[bellamn16]

A season finale should have some angst... something making the viewers want to come back for more. Everything was pretty much resolved - and in a favorable way.

It did have angst. Just because the angst isn't carrying over (which is fine by me) doesn't mean that I won't be coming back for more. I was actually dreading that they wouldn't find Amber tonight and they'd drag it out until next season (annoying).

I don't see this finale as "everything was pretty much resolved." I look at it as, "Yes! Now we're ready to get this show moving!" The initial conflicts that were introduced in the pilot are reaching a point of resolution: Sarah and her kids are staying put, Zeek and Camille are going to try to work it out, Crosby IS a dad...and is going to actively be one. That's like finally getting to the end of the diving board. Now it's time to jump in!

What about Haddie/Kristina/Adam? What about Max/Kristina/Adam? Haddie's struggling to find her identity. Max has major needs.

The Holts are staying. Great! Now what? Is Sarah going to continue with college courses? Is Amber ever gonna take her SATs? Is Drew going to find his way out of the closet?

Zeek and Camille are going to work it out. So what? They're just fine the next morning? Doubt it. And they still have that worthless property laying around. How are they going to get out of their financial pickle?

Crosby is MOVING TO NEW YORK. How does that work?

Julia and Joel...we still know nothing about him. Backstory please?

Plenty to keep this show going for awhile!

[HeyJuliet]

Why does Erika Christensen yell so slowly? She sounded so weird in that scene was Zeek.

I saw that as the lawyer in her. She was very angry and frustrated but working hard to reign in her temper. She even apologized mid rant to her father for yelling at him. I wish she would have just lost it and really let him have it because he deserved it, but I guess it's part of her character to approach it like that. Still, I eventually want to see her come a little more undone and maybe lose it eventually on someone.

ETA: Also, I hate to say it but I'm squicked out by the one-on-one scenes between Sarah and Adam, because they always feel more like a couple than they do siblings in them. :/

Edited by HeyJuliet, May 25, 2010 @ 10:38 PM.

[bellamn16]

but the rights are not created by custody agreements, the rights exist

Yes, he has the right to be Jabbar's father and he has the right to push for custody, but I don't think a court will let someone who doesn't have any physical custody of a child file an injunction to ban a move of that child. I'm pretty sure they would have to sue for a custody agreement first; if you don't have legal custody of a child you don't have a legal right to enforce where or how that child lives. Now, upon accepting the suit for custody, a court may file an injunction on the petitioner's behalf, but I doubt there's a legal obligation to do so.

And honestly, even if an injunction were filed, Jasmine is almost guaranteed to win in court. Even though she didn't tell Crosby about Jabbar, in the eyes of the court, the child's best interests would be to remain with the parent who raised him...and they usually trust that parent to make the decisions that are best for the family. If this move will improve the quality of life (emotional/social/financial) then a court will likely allow it.

[ImNotLeesa]

I spent the first 15-20 minutes wondering why I even watch this show...everyone was being so idiotic, and Sarah took the prize by blowing up at Amber, yelling that she should trying thinking for once, before doing something stupid and acting in the moment (as she herself was doing something stupid without thinking) All I could think was "Hello!? Pot, Kettle...what are you doing?" And when she went to see Mr. Cyr to "talk about Amber" and wound up really talking about herself, Oy! Plus, Kristina was snitting, Haddie was sulking, Crosby was Crosby-ing.

But then, it started to come together. I wound up back on board with everyone again. They're not perfect, but I can understand them all again, and most seem to be trying to do the right thing. Well, actually, I'm back on board with everyone except Jasmine, whose blithe disregard of Crosby (and Jabbar in many ways) has resurfaced with a vengence.

Not sure which scene I wound up liking the most: Drew mortified at his baseball tryouts by the showing of Braverman support (including the wave), Sarah and Amber reconnecting on the sofa ("That's why you're so short!"), or Adam and Sarah confronting Steve and his parents.

I think the tag teaming of Steve and his parents wins, between the way Sarah and Adam alternated lines when explaining who Amber was, the way Sarah blasted back when the 'rents complained that Steve was being blamed for everything, and the way Adam quickly apologized to Sarah after blurting out, all macho-like, "You're just lucky Steve didn't sleep with my daughter".

BTW - horrible, horrible that Steve hadn't even told his parents about Amber, though it was a nice turnabout that now they find out they were in the dark like Adam and Kristina were at first with Steve and Haddie.

[izabella]

I saw it as more poor writing where they put a band-aid on it for a quick fix. She was absolutely reprehensible for most of the episode, and poor Drew had to pay the price. I get Sarah wanting it to just be over, and the collective relief that everything was, but Haddie and Amber solving their problems that quickly in the diner and then Kristina doing that 180...a little too much cheese for me, personally.

It was a little too unbelievable for me.

I don't understand why Kristina suddenly did the 180. Or why Haddie also had her change of heart. Just because Amber ran away? Wouldn't Kristina see that as just another stop on the Amber drama-train, and on the Sarah woe-is-me train?

I also don't know why Kristina said she should go get Amber because she was "closer" when Sarah and Adam arrived a minute after she did.

I think the writing for that was terrible.

I did like that Sarah confronted Steve and his parents and said that no one was blaming Steve, and that her daughter was the "whore" while he came out smelling like a rose in that mess.

[narm]

I saw that as the lawyer in her.

In my opinion, she speaks slowly in all of her scenes. I think it's just an Erika thing but either way I find it bizarre.

And when she went to see Mr. Cyr to "talk about Amber" and wound up really talking about herself, Oy!

Well, Mr. Cyr made it about Sarah. I didn't really even understand the point of that scene. It didn't add anything to the storyline.

[izabella]

And when she went to see Mr. Cyr to "talk about Amber" and wound up really talking about herself, Oy!

This totally squicked me out. I couldn't believe she actually went to talk to him, after everything!

[Cosmos2]

Carole King! Loved it. Couldn't tell you who actually made it a hit though.

Herman's Hermits.

This is one of the very rare times when I get the pop culture reference!

[ebeth]

Yes, he has the right to be Jabbar's father and he has the right to push for custody, but I don't think a court will let someone who doesn't have any physical custody of a child file an injunction to ban a move of that child. I'm pretty sure they would have to sue for a custody agreement first; if you don't have legal custody of a child you don't have a legal right to enforce where or how that child lives. Now, upon accepting the suit for custody, a court may file an injunction on the petitioner's behalf, but I doubt there's a legal obligation to do so.

And honestly, even if an injunction were filed, Jasmine is almost guaranteed to win in court. Even though she didn't tell Crosby about Jabbar, in the eyes of the court, the child's best interests would be to remain with the parent who raised him...and they usually trust that parent to make the decisions that are best for the family. If this move will improve the quality of life (emotional/social/financial) then a court will likely allow it.

Because Crosby is Jabbar's biological parent, he has rights of access to his child. He can sue to have those rights enforced, and ask his lawyer to request an emergency injunction to prevent Jasmine from taking Jabbar out of state while an agreement is reached. It is very common for custody agreements to award physical and legal custody to one parent, but insist that the child's residence be maintained within a certain distance (a hundred miles, the same state, the same county) as the other parent, unless that parent gives permission for the move.

Now, I think Crosby would give permission, but he's got Jasmine over a barrel, not the other way round.

Given the fact pattern, I think that Jasmine is almost guaranteed to *lose* in court. A court would find that, in depriving her child of access to his (perfectly harmless, not at all abusive or unreasonable) biological father for five years, Jasmine acted counter to her son's best interests and attempted to alienate him from his dad. Depending on the court and the judge, she could lose custody over that. Given this history, a court would have compelling reason to believe that Jasmine couldn't be trusted to continue to support Crosby's relationship with Jabbar and should not be allowed to move across the country from Crosby with her son, no matter how much happier and wealthier it would make her - courts like children to have two parents if it's at all possible.

Finally, I think the argument could be made that if Jasmine can (somehow, miraculously) land a gig with Alvin Ailey, someone in the Bay Area would be willing to hire her.

[ImNotLeesa]

I don't understand why Kristina suddenly did the 180. Or why Haddie also had her change of heart. Just because Amber ran away? Wouldn't Kristina see that as just another stop on the Amber drama-train, and on the Sarah woe-is-me train?

I think it's because having a family member missing, with time to think about what might happen to them, suddenly puts everything in perspective. Petty fights and irritations seem less important and you see the big picture, especially if some time has passed. At least that's what happens in my family.

Well, Mr. Cyr made it about Sarah. I didn't really even understand the point of that scene. It didn't add anything to the storyline.

I didn't really understand it the reason for it either, but though Mr Cyr said he didn't want her to go, she came right out and said that talking to him, telling him she was leaving, that was the real reason why she came to see him.

[Seal]

Something tells me we're into something good.

AHHHH Carole King! Loved it. Couldn't tell you who actually made it a hit though.

Herman's Hermits?

I cringed when Zeek pulled out the ukulele & started singing, but had to laugh when they panned to the entire family giving him either a WTF look or just looking embarrassed. Even poor Camille looked like she wanted to die, although she did finally give him a tiny smile. At least no one started singing along.

[Cosmos2]

I'm afraid that teenagers feeling unloved by their families and despised by their peers may get the message that running away from home and hitchhiking with a stranger is some kind of magical solution that cures all problems.

The way they went from the Amber/Haddie situation seeming to be totally hopeless and unfixable and then running away was the miracle cure that made everybody love Amber again and, not only that, made the whole family fix all their other issues too?

Edited by Cosmos2, May 25, 2010 @ 11:11 PM.

[IvyDarling]

Finally, I think the argument could be made that if Jasmine can (somehow, miraculously) land a gig with Alvin Ailey, someone in the Bay Area would be willing to hire her.

But then that someone would have to be on par to Alvin Ailey.

Because Crosby is Jabbar's biological parent, he has rights of access to his child.

But again, even though he now knows this, as an unmarried father, he doesn't have custody rights--all rights vest to Jasmine. See 1:

Even if an unmarried father is listed on the child's birth certificate and paternity is established, it doesn't mean that he has any custody rights.

and 2.:

When a child's parents are unmarried, the statutes of most states require that the mother be awarded sole physical custody unless the father takes action to be awarded custody. An unwed father often cannot win custody over a mother who is a good parent, but he can take steps to secure some form of custody and visitation rights.

Crosby has started the process to get full rights (that of a married father), but he'd still have a long way to go. I don't see a judge making Jasmine stick around in state in this case. In any case, I think this is somewhat moot, because I don't see Crosby doing anything like that anyway. I feel like as long as Jasmine doesn't actively keep Jabbar from him, Crosby is good to go.

Edited by IvyDarling, May 25, 2010 @ 11:15 PM.

[omgsowicked]

Oh, I can't stand Zeek. I wish Camille would have told him to GTFO and he would go live in his failing property investment. I do find Timm a little smarmy but Zeek was out of control with his "pride". Incredibly rude. I find nothing likable about his character.

Jasmine acts so wishy-washy, not thinking twice about Crosby or Jabbar, just about her dancing in New York. It seems clear that Crosby is trying to stay on good terms with Jasmine (trying to do the "right" thing, the "become a family" thing) but I hope they have a storyline about him pursuing legal rights. Jasmine is not reliable.

Wanted to punch Kristina in the face. What an uppity, judgmental bitch. I really hope Sarah and Kristina have a good heart to heart, preferably with Sarah calling her on her shit. Yes, she turned around when it came down to it but I wouldn't be surprised if, after the fact, she went off about how dramatic Amber is and how perfect their daughter is in comparison. Speaking of perfect, I didn't appreciate when Kristina said to Haddie, "you're perfect the way you are" (or something to that effect). I think that's the problem, Kristina... everyone expects her to be the perfect little angel and she feels she can't live up to it. And then she dyes her hair and you think she's going to become like "slutty" Amber. Ugh, I don't like Kristina.

Seemed unrealistic, Amber and Haddie working it out in under a minute (would have liked to see their chat) but I'm glad it's all good with them. I think Haddie understood, once she had time to think it over, that Amber was truly sorry, that she wasn't out to get her. I'm glad they're not going to draw that out.

Mr. Cyr and Sarah was completely pointless, didn't need to see that at all. Appreciated the interaction between Sarah and Adam and Steve's parents. Glad they made the comment about how Steve is coming up smelling like roses in the whole situation. Seems Steve is still interested in Amber, wonder what will happen there. I hope Amber tells him to get lost and finds another guy (who has nothing to do with Haddie).

Drew was a cutie, as usual. When Amber and Sarah were arguing, I wondered if he was going to throw the baseball into a car window or something. That would have been totally OOC but he looked pretty stressed (don't blame him).

Still not 100% sold on this show but I'll watch next season. The second season is usually better than the first. I hope they tone down the overlapping conversations. And maybe someone will finally acknowledge that Amber never took her SATs.

[possibilities]

The freak out over Haddie dying her hair blew my mind. Since when is it a big deal for a teenager to dye her hair? It wasn't even purple or cut in some crazy way.