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Terra Nova: Land Of The Lost, No Sleestaks


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#1111

bmills

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Posted Oct 24, 2011 @ 10:00 PM

Wait, why again is it not on tonight? My local affiliate is showing Friends and Seinfeld in its place. WTF?

#1112

taiko

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Posted Oct 24, 2011 @ 10:11 PM

"
The World Series is tied in the 8th inning on the West Coast on FOX

#1113

bmills

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Posted Oct 24, 2011 @ 11:50 PM

Ah, so they didn't bump it just to show 15 year old sitcoms in prime time. (As the only straight guy in North America who couldn't care less about sports, I had no idea the tournament-thingy was today.)

#1114

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Posted Oct 25, 2011 @ 7:26 AM

I think it's cool they're trying this, but it's not consistent. In other ways the teens are very much 2011 teens: boys and girls hanging out together, cohabitation etc.


Oh, I agree! They've been all over the board with the teens and overall they pretty much act just like 2011 teens do. I think it was more the possible age difference between an enlisted soldier and a 16 year old girl where 2011 eyebrow raising could be the anomoly. A 20-25 year old dating a 16 year old would not have been much cause for concern in 1911, and it's just as likely in 2111 it wouldn't be either.

As has been mentioned here, the actress playing Elisabeth really doesn't seem old enough to be the mother of Josh especially since she's a physician. A nice throwaway line to some future different-than-ours societal norm could partially explain it: "Jim: we did everything by the books, married young, had our government-approved two children before age 20..." This could partially explain why the third child was a 30something choice: the two older ones spent a lot of time in futuristic socialized daycare while she did college and medical school and she wanted to experience motherhood the "old-fashioned way" of the early 21st century professional women! Oh wait, but that blows away the serious-romance-before-Jim stuff doesn't it? It maybe would have been more realisitc to have made the teens Jim's from a deceased wife and hence the reason for the taboo third child....the obviously-younger Elisabeth wanted a child.

Oh well, I am thinking WAY too much about this. Clearly the producers just wanted Shelley Conn, never mind the fact she could easily play a 25 year old...

Edited by SpecialBrew, Oct 25, 2011 @ 9:01 AM.


#1115

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Posted Oct 25, 2011 @ 10:15 AM

And every single structure they've shown so far has had the fence in view.

I hadn't noticed but I’ll take your word for it, and it does seem unlikely even though we have no idea exactly how many people are there after 10 pilgrimages (and I'm assuming that the pilgrimages started off pretty small and have gotten larger). In the wide shots I think the colony is built as mostly empty space (for farming or whatever) and a narrow periphery of housing so most would still be near the fence, but even so. For that matter, did they expand the colony for each new set of arrivals, shifting all houses and other buildings, or are they already built up in mind for the however many pilgrimages? I would guess the latter.

Oh well, I am thinking WAY too much about this. Clearly the producers just wanted Shelley Conn, never mind the fact she could easily play a 25 year old...

Quite. Her actual age and the age of her supposed children in the show does kinda work if we make some assumptions, but it sure doesn't look credible - that line in the recap for the amnesia ep springs to mind, in response to her line about how old she looked.

This doesn't bother me because it's 20,000,000 years in the future and then there's at least 3 other extinction events between then and the modern age.

Indeed. They don't seem to have been able to choose which timeline the portal went to (for that matter, I cannot recall if it was meant to be a natural phenomenon scientists exploited and turned out to be able to manipulate time under those conditions and scientific enhancement or if it was just the result of some experiment, unintentional or not), and if a choice between starting a new society and trusting them to come up with a solution to the whole extinction events in millions of years thing and just sticking with a dead world, might as well go with the former.

ETA: It also bugs me that, with the very limited people they have there, two entire factions are practically at war. It doesn't exactly instil faith in human kind. That sense of pessimism seems to pervade the show, too. That people never learn, and just naturally divide into warring camps.

It's made worse by not really knowing what separates them, otherwise I think it would palatable. Otherwise it's not pessimism in humankind (or Humaylonity as I like to call it since BSG) being able to get along in a desperate situation because of near irreconcilable differences that are inevitable in our race, but just people being assholes when bigger things need to take centre stage. In mitigation, I suppose the early years of the colony will shape the future society in ways that may not even be apparent yet (they might develop antiquated courting customs and acceptance of charismatic military badass leaders as a ruling model!) and so people would want to ensure they shape the colony now while they still can. That said, one should not be having debates on parliamentary procedure (to take as a hypothetical, not as anything from the show, Malcolm being snitty about being questioned notwithstanding) when you're starving and wolves are at the door.

In partial answer to that, though, the colony seems to be doing fine right now: they have ample food as far as we know, ample medical supplies, regular communications with 2149 to get new people and supplies, defensively they seem ok despite our complaints (it does not seem people are in fear of dying at any moment), and even the 6ers seem to be doing reasonably ok out in the treetops (though scavenging stuff from the colony will not last them I suspect) - if there was a time when people might be inclined to splinter and divide into warring factions rather than come together, I can see it being now, while things are still comfortable. I tend to think people come together, even if reluctantly, when facing mutual and great adversity - there is a line they cannot cross under any circumstances, at some point a choice to co-operate might just be too hard and they would see it as necessary to divide and war with one another, but otherwise I would not be surprised if the 6ers and Taylor(or at least the colony besides him) might work together and drop the bullcrap if facing a threat.

I am interested in what would happen if the portal went down and both groups had to be more self sufficient, what they would do if shortages began as a result.

#1116

taiko

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Posted Oct 25, 2011 @ 10:30 AM

Quite. Her actual age and the age of her supposed children in the show does kinda work if we make some assumptions, but it sure doesn't look credible

I will just write it up as 140 years of improvement for the beauty industry, at least for the privileged classes, since the fashion industry seemed to stall out

#1117

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Posted Oct 25, 2011 @ 10:36 AM

I thought of Roger Williams being banished from Massachusetts and going off to Providence. He didn't hang around in the woods near Salem, attacking settlers. Why bother? The new world was a big place. He bought land from local Indians, went, and never looked back.

Similarly if there is a whole world out there, why do the Sixers bother hanging around Terra Nova and rattling their swords outside the gate. Why not set out on their own, to make a new settlement, and never look back? There's plenty of room--a whole world to explore.

I still don't see what their motivation might be to pester Terra Nova, or the desire for weapons. Especially if there is no reason to return to 2149. If they claim they want to be self-sufficient (mentioned upthread but I never heard that), they shouldn't care about getting supplies from the future. The only motivation we've heard so far is that Mira's daughter is being held hostage. But a separatist faction needs more than that--an ideology of some sort. Is "paving the way for our future overlords" it? Doesn't sound very appealing compared to just setting off into the jungle.

I missed the first few minutes of the pilot apparently, so two questions: Does Terra Nova refer to the entire planet, or just the settlement? Where does the portal/gate thingy dump people out--within the compound?

#1118

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Posted Oct 25, 2011 @ 10:40 AM

The thing about the "enlisted soldier", though, is that Reynolds could just as easily be 17 or 18 as he could be 20 or 25. In which case, somebody brings the age gap between him and Maddy and that's not going to be all that objectionable.

#1119

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Posted Oct 25, 2011 @ 10:48 AM

I am interested in what would happen if the portal went down and both groups had to be more self sufficient, what they would do if shortages began as a result.

I've been a bit curious as to what sort of supplies 2149 can really afford to send back to the people with ample land, fresh air and water. Basic tech, sure, but with no resource movement in the other direction and only a tiny population to support, I'd expect TN to be fairly self-sufficient by now.

According to the interview, Taylor instituted the rules about courting because there are a lot more single guys than girls, and their behavior needs to be regulated. (Makes me wonder if the saloon has an upstairs . . . ) There seems to be at least some of TPTB who are looking at this as a frontier existence -- the teen love video stressed that. I'm not sure I see that as a good analogy but it at least gives some insight into where they might be coming from.

The EW interview (and thanks to everyone for posting links!) actually filled me with joy. Dino-sharks? Really? I'd better run out and stock up on popcorn now.

ETA:

But a separatist faction needs more than that--an ideology of some sort. Is "paving the way for our future overlords" it?

I wonder if it's actually the other way -- Taylor and the establishment are paving the way for the overlords and Mira's working for some radical underground revolutionary movement -- one willing to use her kid against her since they believe their long term goals are more important than any single individual. They need to control TN in order to control what comes through the portal and, ultimately, how the alternate timeline is used.

Edited by Elisende, Oct 25, 2011 @ 10:56 AM.


#1120

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Posted Oct 25, 2011 @ 10:49 AM

Similarly if there is a whole world out there, why do the Sixers bother hanging around Terra Nova and rattling their swords outside the gate. Why not set out on their own, to make a new settlement, and never look back? There's plenty of room--a whole world to explore.

I still don't see what their motivation might be to pester Terra Nova, or the desire for weapons.

Presumably the Terra Nova is the only source of things like batteries for the sonics and ammunition to keep the local wildlife in check.

#1121

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Posted Oct 25, 2011 @ 11:10 AM

I am interested in what would happen if the portal went down and both groups had to be more self sufficient, what they would do if shortages began as a result.


Me too. In fact, a much sketchier portal that is up and down inconsistantly would ratchet up the tension and drama. Never being sure if they are abandoned or cut off....or if a new batch of colonists and supplies will arrive or not. Kind of like Roanoke and the Lost Colony...at a certain point those people must have thought "this is it, we're on our own".

#1122

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Posted Oct 25, 2011 @ 11:29 AM

Yes the portal is a "pinch point", a single point of failure--the whole settlement depends on timely deliveries from the future of batteries, fuel, building materials, grooming products, etc. They are quite vulnerable in that sense. You'd think they'd be working diligently on self-sufficient alternatives. The Sixers even more so--they should be riding around on dinosaurs!

#1123

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Posted Oct 25, 2011 @ 7:00 PM

According to the interview, Taylor instituted the rules about courting because there are a lot more single guys than girls, and their behavior needs to be regulated. (Makes me wonder if the saloon has an upstairs . . . )

Isn't this show advertised as a family show? So far, there has been hardly any indication that there are such vices going on in Terra Nova.

#1124

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Posted Oct 25, 2011 @ 7:56 PM

The World Series is tied in the 8th inning on the West Coast on FOX

It's not the same to discuss this without a new episode but I'll give it a go

According to the interview, Taylor instituted the rules about courting because there are a lot more single guys than girls, and their behavior needs to be regulated. (Makes me wonder if the saloon has an upstairs . . . )

So it fits my theory of no love triangles/cheating/faul play: a guy needs to make his intentions clear and, only if he's rejected, can another man make move on the same girl.

Which means that, if Maddy rejects her soldier then it's game over for him.

Edited by agora, Oct 25, 2011 @ 7:57 PM.


#1125

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Posted Oct 25, 2011 @ 8:09 PM

And I haven't really heard a good answer for the fact that why bother to try to re-start society when there is going to be an event that renders life extinct at some point

Guys, c'mon, that's 20 million years away. T-W-E-N-T-Y M-I-L-L-I-O-N Y-E-A-R-S. It would be absolutely ridiculous for them to be worried about this, because in human scale that pretty much equals to the freaking eternity. As I said, humankind is not going to last that long. At least, not in the form where you care about a giant comet crashing the land. They would probably be either energy beings without corporeal form wandering the universe, or long-forgotten dust. More probably dust.

years before they get back to the modern age.

Even not factoring the energy beings/dust transformation, I don't think they would get back to modern age, anyway. At some point their presence would hinder the primates to develop into human civilization to begin with. This timeline has been irremediably altered since the day Taylor put foot on it.

Yes, maybe it's a parallel universe, rather than the actual past, but if that's the case, why are there dinosaurs at all, instead of some other parallel thing that would have happened.

Alternate timeline, not parallel universe. They went back, changed the past by being there (the exact instant they started being there), and this created a different timeline. Up until that point everything had been the same (so, dinosaurs, et cetera). From that point on, everything changed, generating a different timeline -- i.e. a different future, unrelated to the future they came from.
It's actually the only reasonable approach to time travel to the past, most scientific theories claim it would be either that or just not possible to accomplish.

Clearly the producers just wanted Shelley Conn

Well, I can't really blame them for that. :)
Elisabeth is supposed to be about 38, so she had Josh when she was 21. Not too much of a stretch.
I actually think the casting is good, overall. I like how the Shannons feel like an interracial family, yet nobody in-universe comments on that, conveying the (Blade Runner-ish) idea that the future is a global melting pot where Western and Eastern hemispheres don't mean so much anymore (except that British accents would make no sense then, but ok). And Naomi Scott looks like she could really be Shelley Conn's daughter (she's half Gujarati Indian, Conn is half Sri Lankan).

Edited by K42, Oct 25, 2011 @ 8:15 PM.


#1126

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Posted Oct 25, 2011 @ 11:18 PM

Elisabeth is supposed to be about 38, so she had Josh when she was 21. Not too much of a stretch.

Except for the part about not knowing Jim when she regressed to grad school. She must not have known him for very long before she got married and/or pregnant.

#1127

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Posted Oct 25, 2011 @ 11:45 PM

Elisabeth is supposed to be about 38, so she had Josh when she was 21.

I figure Elizabet must be a very young looking 43 year old in order to be Josh's mother, I think it's possible considering Jennifer Anniston is 42 and I still see her like the flaky from Friends.

*ETA: I think many Sci fi shows have strong women over 40 in key roles - Mrs. Widmore on Lost, Mama Petrelli in Heroes, Diana Skouris/Nina Jarvis in the 4400, etc. - there's no written rule that says only 30 year olds are allowed to be mothers on TV.

Edited by agora, Oct 25, 2011 @ 11:51 PM.


#1128

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Posted Oct 26, 2011 @ 1:12 AM

Except for the part about not knowing Jim when she regressed to grad school. She must not have known him for very long before she got married and/or pregnant.

Which is very possible, of course. We still have to hear how they first met. But it's also possible they just screwed up with that amnesia thing, for (contrived) plot reasons.

I think many Sci fi shows have strong women over 40 in key roles - Mrs. Widmore on Lost, Mama Petrelli in Heroes, Diana Skouris/Nina Jarvis in the 4400, etc. - there's no written rule that says only 30 year olds are allowed to be mothers on TV.

Absolutely, I was factoring 38 just because Shelley Conn is 35 looking 28, so I think they wouldn't stretch too much her character's supposed age.
(Btw, both Eloise Widmore -- who was actually a recurring role -- and Angela Petrelli are more in the over 60 category, if not more. Heck, Angela had a son who was over 40 himself, and a father! We're talking more grandmothers than mothers with them. If anything, it seems to me that TV moms are always been older than younger, except on sitcoms about families with little kids. It's like being a mom traditionally was about stopping being sexualized at all. I believe seeing the portraits of younger, sexually active, and non-neutered mothers is a good thing. The current record-holder for that has to be Gretchen Mol in Boardwalk Empire, whose character is just 13 years her son's senior).

Edited by K42, Oct 26, 2011 @ 1:14 AM.


#1129

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Posted Oct 26, 2011 @ 1:47 AM

Except for the part about not knowing Jim when she regressed to grad school. She must not have known him for very long before she got married and/or pregnant.


That makes certain amount of sense given their personalities practically the only consistent character note Elisabeth has is that she capable as being as reckless and impulsive as Jim is. I actually like that it explains a lot about their relationship, and makes them more equal. Its nice to see this week when Elisabeth wanted to take home Newt that she is not always the practical one which is so overdone on tv.

Which is very possible, of course. We still have to hear how they first met. But it's also possible they just screwed up with that amnesia thing, for (contrived) plot reasons.


Yeah Braga's running this show which makes me suspect in the end we will get 45 different versions of the characters backstories all of them conflicting. But hey maybe he's actually learned from his series of fuck-ups and is letting Echevaria handle that. Honestly I think this is what bugs me about him the most I mean I could almost forgive the Space Nazis if he would just acknowledge how awful they were instead of being a jackass about it.

#1130

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Posted Oct 26, 2011 @ 11:13 AM

I figure Elizabet must be a very young looking 43 year old in order to be Josh's mother, I think it's possible considering Jennifer Anniston is 42 and I still see her like the flaky from Friends.

*ETA: I think many Sci fi shows have strong women over 40 in key roles - Mrs. Widmore on Lost, Mama Petrelli in Heroes, Diana Skouris/Nina Jarvis in the 4400, etc. - there's no written rule that says only 30 year olds are allowed to be mothers on TV.

Absolutely, I was factoring 38 just because Shelley Conn is 35 looking 28, so I think they wouldn't stretch too much her character's supposed age.

I think having children of Josh and Maddy's age have done a lot to "age" both Jim and Elizabeth characters. I mean, the Shannons are still younger than more than half the CSI/Private Practice cast but, because they have children of their own, they could be accepted as a somewhat younger looking married couple.

Btw, both Eloise Widmore -- who was actually a recurring role -- and Angela Petrelli are more in the over 60 category, if not more. Heck, Angela had a son who was over 40 himself, and a father! We're talking more grandmothers than mothers with them. If anything, it seems to me that TV moms are always been older than younger, except on sitcoms about families with little kids.

That's one of the things I like about Elizabeth, not only she's still a sexual being but her husband is actually smitten with her; they are effective parents around their kids but, when they are alone, he's still that goofy guy pursuing someone way over his league and she's still that geeky girl who never in a million years thought an action hero would fall for her.

They have a lot in common with Maddy and Josh in private, yet they do a pretty good job trying to cover it up in front of them.

Edited by agora, Oct 26, 2011 @ 11:27 AM.


#1131

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Posted Oct 26, 2011 @ 11:27 AM

The Sixers even more so--they should be riding around on dinosaurs!


Oh, great. Now you've given the writers season 2. Chaka can't be far behind.

#1132

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Posted Oct 26, 2011 @ 1:05 PM

Except for the part about not knowing Jim when she regressed to grad school. She must not have known him for very long before she got married and/or pregnant.

I kinda thought she and Malcolm were undergrads together, not grads, so that would gain us a few years. Also, since it's 2149 maybe they can beam knowledge directly into your brain during REM sleep or something. No time to waste: gotta get your research done early before the pollution and low oxygen levels kill off too many brain cells. I suppose early reproduction could be encouraged for the same reason, actually -- reproduce while your toxin levels are lower.

#1133

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Posted Oct 26, 2011 @ 4:43 PM

And they weren't spending any time in the sun - that's got to account for at least some of the youthfulness.

#1134

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Posted Oct 26, 2011 @ 7:15 PM

I got the feeling that the 'alternate timeline' was their way of saying "Please don't ask us any more questions about this ever"

I agree. I think there's a strong possibility we may be expecting too much of this show by anticipating significance in every plot point or detail. I think "alternate timeline" was a throw-away line to dismiss concerns about the butterfly effect.

Similarly, I do not expect any further mention or discussion about why, exactly, the Shannons had a third child, despite the speculation that was made about it after the pilot. In fact I believe the official explanation of that was "Uh, because, they love each other." Period. The entire scenario was just fabricated to force !drama! into the opening of the pilot and no longer serves any purpose.

Oh, I agree! They've been all over the board with the teens and overall they pretty much act just like 2011 teens do.

Which is problematic. They started this story by establishing how sickly and deadly their futuristic world was. Children couldn't just go outside and cavort and play. So the idea of a sulky teen retiring to his room to play video games or listen to his iPod juxtaposed against Jurassic Park is kind of absurd. You would think everyone - kids and adults alike - would want to spend as much time enjoying the outdoors as possible.

In the wide shots I think the colony is built as mostly empty space (for farming or whatever) and a narrow periphery of housing so most would still be near the fence, but even so.

The longshot of the compound in the pilot episode depicted a circular area which seemed to consist mainly of farming area with living and work areas around its perimeter. Which is pretty, and impressive looking, but impractical. I think they chose artistic merit over functionality because if they are surrounded by enormous prey, the more obvious solution would be to construct as many outer perimeter barriers as possible to minimize the risk of that prey reaching the population - not keeping the population closest to the outer perimeter itself.

#1135

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Posted Oct 26, 2011 @ 7:28 PM

Similarly, I do not expect any further mention or discussion about why, exactly, the Shannons had a third child, despite the speculation that was made about it after the pilot.

According to this TVLine interview they changed their minds about the reason for it between the pilot and the first episode.

Although an original cut of the series pilot hinted at a deeper (darker?) reason for that bit of procreation, Jason O’Mara says that now, “The honest answer to that is Elisabeth and Jim are very much in love.”

Of course, it could be one of those cases where the writers/actors lie in order to preserve a reveal.

#1136

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Posted Oct 26, 2011 @ 10:35 PM

Of course, it could be one of those cases where the writers/actors lie in order to preserve a reveal.

I would hope so, these last two interviews are making me like the show even less.

Naomi Scott looks like she could really be Shelley Conn's daughter

While both daughters look like the mom, the son looks nothing like her at all. Not even a little.

#1137

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Posted Oct 26, 2011 @ 11:49 PM

I was just on the Wikipedia Terra Nova page and reading the one sentence "premise" summaries from the rest of the episodes of the season.
Were they translated with Babelfish from Japanese or something? WTF? They make no sense at all.

Ep. 6:
Skye as well as Elisabeth group up to save someone’s life. Mira as well as a Sixers try to conflict as well as Taylor contingency stop them.

Ep. 8:
Jim looks in to an aged murder, for that it looks similar to Taylor competence be guilty.

#1138

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Posted Oct 27, 2011 @ 12:41 AM

And they weren't spending any time in the sun - that's got to account for at least some of the youthfulness.

Mark one for the greenhouse gases! :)

According to this TVLine interview they changed their minds about the reason for it between the pilot and the first episode.

I feel like they changed their minds about a lot of things after the pilot, I'm not sure we should even take it into account anymore at this point.

While both daughters look like the mom, the son looks nothing like her at all. Not even a little.

He kinda looks like his dad. It's just like The Incredibles. :)
(Actually Elisabeth is very much like Elastigirl, personality-wise).

Were they translated with Babelfish from Japanese or something?

It seems so. They're hilarious. :)
I'm looking forward to Skye and Elisabeth having a storyline together, btw. More of that, less of Josh having storylines at all, except with the inside of a T-Rex's stomach.

#1139

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Posted Oct 27, 2011 @ 8:23 AM

Were they translated with Babelfish from Japanese or something? WTF? They make no sense at all.


Actually I think someone translanted that from spoilertv to another language than back English.

Ep 1.06
Titled: "Bylaw"
The colony falls victim to its first murder, and Jim and Taylor must find the perpetrator. Also, Skye helps Josh find a way to get Kira, his girlfriend from 2149, to the past, while Elisabeth and Zoe race to help an unborn Ankylosaurus survive in the all-new "Bylaw"


Ep 1.07
Titled: "Nightfall"
All of Terra Nova's technology is wiped out after a meteor crashes. Maddy and Reynolds get stuck outside the walls. Skye and Elisabeth team up to save someone's life. Mira and the Sixers try to attack and Taylor must stop them.


Ep 1.08
Titled: "Proof"
Maddy's life is in danger when she finds out a secret about one of Terra Nova's top scientist. Josh makes a deal to bring Kira back from 2149, but this could be trouble


E. 1.09
Titled: "Vs"
Taylor looks for the Sixer mole that Mira sent into Terra Nova. Jim looks into an old murder, for which it looks like Taylor might be guilty


Terra Nova upcoming episodes

#1140

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Posted Oct 27, 2011 @ 9:17 AM

An imaginary Josh-with-common-sense would wonder how the bartender will be able to manage to get his girlfriend back, and what debt he will incur as a result. Real Josh though is a moron who doesn't even understand the local currency (probably one of the topics they covered in that pesky orientation he skipped) or have enough money to buy an old guitar.

The payment for girlfriend transport will probably be merely you know, just the odd bit of information about what his dad and dad's boss are up to. So the kid will be not only annoying but also a tool for allowing himself to be so easily drawn in. The bartender should be played by James Gandolfino.

An imaginary cool-Josh could become a double agent, telling his father about the offer from the bartender, and feeding him false info that exposes the moleys.

Question of who is a mole still seems weak anyway, as we haven't been given enough examples of actionable intel that has been compromised. Mira knew they had the moppet but so what, that wasn't exactly a state secret.

...if they are surrounded by enormous prey, the more obvious solution would be to construct as many outer perimeter barriers as possible to minimize the risk of that prey reaching the population - not keeping the population closest to the outer perimeter itself.

Agree. It's like building the living quarters in a fort or castle as close to the outer wall as possible. Doesn't make sense.