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Nikita (2010): 9021007


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#4771

nikitaspy

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Posted Feb 18, 2012 @ 9:18 PM

Hah! Oh, I can't stand that the next episode's not till March 9th. I love this show so much.

This show is really addicted. It's a fascinating series. The bad thing is we have to wait for each episode, but worth it.

I've just started watching this series and I don't remember Ari having a kid. What episode was that in? I don't have all of season one so it's possible I missed something.....

Nikita mentions to Ari in his first episode that she was sent to kill him several years ago but didn't because his son was sitting next to him.

To be exact, it's in 1x8 "Phoenix."
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#4772

Ashe F

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Posted Feb 18, 2012 @ 10:01 PM

This episode was great. I loved everything about it except Carla is an idiot. I get that she has ~feelings~ or whatever, but she needs to listen to people who say, "Oh, Percy was locked in a cage because he killed a bunch of people, you probably shouldn't trust him with your secrets." This is going to be a problem.

Also, I love Birkhoff's nerd rage, but I wish Nikita would sit him down and explain to him that okay, we all totally get it when you call a woman a bitch when she's smashing your hand with a hammer, but you can't just throw the word around every time a woman pisses you off. Like. Dude. Find another word. Maybe a gender neutral one. I know those pretty anime girls won't sleep with you, there, prince, but that's because they're animated. There's no need to take it out on the rest of us.
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#4773

willriley01

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Posted Feb 18, 2012 @ 11:41 PM

Here's the one off I promised. Just remember that this is my first attempt at Nikita fanfiction, lol.

http://william22-cu.livejournal.com/
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#4774

mustbekarma

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Posted Feb 19, 2012 @ 12:10 AM

Also, I love Birkhoff's nerd rage, but I wish Nikita would sit him down and explain to him that okay, we all totally get it when you call a woman a bitch when she's smashing your hand with a hammer, but you can't just throw the word around every time a woman pisses you off. Like. Dude. Find another word. Maybe a gender neutral one. I know those pretty anime girls won't sleep with you, there, prince, but that's because they're animated. There's no need to take it out on the rest of us.

Bitch works for me. He calls them like he sees them. At least Amanda is a smart, psychopathic bitch. I keep attaching the word "stupid" to Carla for some strange reason.
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#4775

My Way

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Posted Feb 19, 2012 @ 2:58 AM

Bitch works for me.

Me too. Carla was actively threatening the Alex's life because she thought it might hurt Amanda. I was yelling the same word at the screen (also at the end when she called Percy).
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#4776

ElectricBoogalo

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Posted Feb 19, 2012 @ 6:40 AM

I loved when Birkhoff pulled his gun on Carla. I was really hoping he'd shoot her. Obviously Carla doesn't understand the importance of keeping someone safe. Until now, I know we've seen Birkhoff's loyalty to Michael and Nikita but this was the first time I remember seeing him be so protective of Alex, which made me go awwwwww.
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#4777

Cress

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Posted Feb 19, 2012 @ 6:44 AM

I don't know when "bitch" became a word that we can't use anymore. It seems no worse to me than calling a man a "pig" or a "snake." I used to hear it on TV without controversy.

But now that show "Good Christian Bitches" has to change its name, and there were protests in my area against a dog grooming shop called "High Maintenance Bitches."

Anyway, thanks for reminding us of Ari having a son. I do hope it figures into the plot eventually. I think he must really be Russian, and faking that American accent. I wonder why Amanda thought Carla would know who Ari was, and that she shouldn't be talking with him. Did Percy give her the impression that Carla knew more about their operations than she did?
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#4778

willriley01

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Posted Feb 19, 2012 @ 7:22 AM

Bitch isn't a word people can't use, but there are some instances when it is the first insult thrown at women, no matter what their actions were. I can understand how someone had a problem with Birkoff saying it because the word is used almost strictly for women as a huge insult on television. Now it would have been one thing if Carla was acting like Amanda, but for the most part Carla was stupid and thoughtless. So I get it why the original person who posted had a problem with that insult being used instead of another.
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#4779

TheNarrator

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Posted Feb 19, 2012 @ 8:53 AM

Something I didn't notice until just now: in the flashbacks we see Carla and Amanda argue at their first meeting. Amanda wants Operations to be up there with the recruits sequestered on the lower levels, out of sight. Carla says that the recruits have to see agents going in and out so that they know what they're working for.

Now, remember how Division was laid out in season one? Operations was a small room with tinted windows overlooking the gym where the recruits trained, a gym which agents went past to get to the elevator on their way outside for their missions. (Watching them leave without him is what sets Robbie off on his killing spree in "The Recruit".) Now look at what it looks like in season two, after Amanda takes over: Operations takes up the large open area, watched over by Amanda from her giant office, while the recruits have completely vanished from sight.

Carla won the argument about the layout... and the first thing that Amanda does once she takes over is replace Carla's design with her own. Fourteen years later.

That's quite the grudge she's holding.



Alex´s scenes getting out of the hotel were awesome, kudos to Lyndsy for the fight scenes.

She was pretty badass. Our little girl is growing up! And from a character standpoint, I loved how totally gobsmacked she looked when a Division agent came to her rescue in the basement. She's not used to them being on her side.

(But did anyone else notice? When Michael shoots the two goons that were about to corner Alex outside the hotel, we hear suppressed shots--well, what Hollywood thinks suppressed shots sound like, anyway--but then we cut to him and his M4 doesn't have a suppressor on it. Somebody goofed.)

I don´t understand why Amanda seems to be so calm about the fact Alex is in cahoots with Nikita.

Unless Ari's been holding out on her, Amanda already knew they were working together, since Ari would have known after they shot their way out of Semak's mansion together. But Amanda still needs Alex for her scheme to work, so she won't kill her for it... yet. (She may already be planning to use Alex to bait Nikita into a trap, as well.) The spy game often means having to work with people that you'd normally just as soon shoot in the face.

This episode was great. I loved everything about it except Carla is an idiot. I get that she has ~feelings~ or whatever, but she needs to listen to people who say, "Oh, Percy was locked in a cage because he killed a bunch of people, you probably shouldn't trust him with your secrets." This is going to be a problem.

Which sort of brings to mind the question: Did Team Nikita remember to, at some point between episodes, actually tell Carla about what Percy was up to when he ran Division? Because you'd think she wouldn't still believe in him so much if she knew that he'd killed Michael's family, Nikita's fiancee, Birkhoff's predecessor, etc. Perhaps it's time for them to whip up a Power Point presentation for her on "Why Percy Is Bad." She's been fixating too much on Amanda being the problem, not understanding that it was under Percy that Division turned evil.

Carla's betrayal is going to break Nikita's heart. This was the last quasi-parental figure she had that hadn't abused her trust.

Where the hell did a supposedly homeless woman get a phone like that anyway?

Since it looked like a shiny new cell phone with a touch screen and had Percy's number in it, I'm guessing that Percy gave it to her. That she kept it after Percy put a gun to her head and then tried to shoot Nikita sort of goes into that whole "too trusting" thing....

Who could've thought Ari, the chief of Gogol, isn't Russian, but American?

I'm pretty sure that Ari is Russian, but just faked an American accent when he met Carla all those years ago. When Team Nikita was talking about is history in this episode, they mentioned that he'd been with the KGB since back in the days when it was still called the KGB... which would be more than 20 years ago now. (And he called himself "Bill Clay", the same fake name used by Hans Gruber, the villain of Die Hard, in an attempt to similarly pretend to be an American to the protagonist of that film. That actually kind of fits with Ari's previously established love of cinema.)

Man, I don't get the Semak thing at all. I mean he is a total non-entity and hasn't in any way demonstrated why everyone seems to avoid the obvious solution of killing him to death.

As villains go, he's clearly outclassed by Percy, Amanda and Ari, that's true. But Ari can't kill him yet because that won't get Ari what he wants: control of Zetrov. (As much as Zetrov's H.R. practices seem to scream "We're a supervillain organization!" they apparently don't use the Klingon Promotion method.) For that he either needs someone with a legitimate claim (i.e. Alex) to take over being the public face of the company while Ari and Amanda pull their strings from the shadows... or else he needs to expose Semak doing something that even Zetrov employees would consider heinous (i.e. killing Alex) so that he'll have an excuse to eliminate Semak and replace him while appearing to be in the right.

Maybe Zetrov/Gogol has great benefits or something, but going undercover for years on end for a lousy 300 million doesn't seem like a great cost/benefit ratio.

$300 million is Gogol's operating budget... basically how much money Ari gets every year to pay for guns and goons for Zetrov, and how much he could steal if he had to run right now (presumably to join Amanda at Division). What he's hoping for, however, is control of Zetrov, which could well be worth hundreds of billions of dollars, plus his own private army (two armies, actually, since he'd also be allied with Amanda and Division), and worldwide political influence. It's pretty much the grand prize.

Finally, we know Ari has a kid who would be around 12 now, but there has been no mention of a Mrs. Ari. While we're playing who's the daddy with Percy and Nikita, what about who's the mommy with Ari and his kid? Maybe Ari and Amanda have more of a connection than we think.

I don't think that Amanda could be the mother. She'd have had to have hidden the pregnancy for months, then sent the child to Ari who would have to have come up with an explanation for where the child came from and who the mother was that would stand up to scrutiny when Division was looking into his background after he took over Gogol and went to the top of their hit list.

Presumably Mrs. Ari (Tasarova?) is a Russian woman who knows nothing about what his day job really entails and isn't involved in the spy business (which is why our heroes don't bother to talk about her much) and has no idea that he's having an affair with an American spy. Although I will be pleasantly surprised if she also turns to be ex-KGB and dangerous in her own right. (And quite pissed off when she finds out that Ari is cheating on her... or, quite possibly, aware of the affair the whole time as part of her and Ari's plan to gain an asset inside Division. Wouldn't that be a mindfuck?)

Edited by TheNarrator, Feb 19, 2012 @ 8:55 AM.

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#4780

talea

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Posted Feb 19, 2012 @ 9:06 AM

Thanks,caitlinclare and nikitaspy for the info on when Ari mentioned his son. Now I can go back and rewatch Phoenix.

As for the "bitch" thing, I agree it's sometimes overused. In this case, "stupid lady" may have been just as effective, using the same tone.

As an LFN fanatic (the first fandom I ever got involved with), I'm really liking the quick, serial pacing of this particular version of the Nikita story. And I really like the birkoff in this one. Less little brother, more equal.
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#4781

My Way

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Posted Feb 19, 2012 @ 9:36 AM

for the most part Carla was stupid and thoughtless

Thoughtless to the point of not caring whether Alex lived or died. Which is Amanda territory for me. Hell, Amanda seemed to care more about Alex than Carla did (granted, we don't know why but still). I haven't got Carla in the good guy territory right now, I've got her in zealot who is ok with collateral damage as long as she gets her objectives. That is not a good thing.

Carla won the argument about the layout... and the first thing that Amanda does once she takes over is replace Carla's design with her own. Fourteen years later.

Amanda really, really didn't like losing that argument! Percy probably realized he had to placate Carla (who is dumber than a box of hammers for not realizing that the fact that Percy brought in Amanda meant that he isn't totally on her side).

Perhaps it's time for them to whip up a Power Point presentation for her on "Why Percy Is Bad."

Hee!

I wonder if Ari's son will come up (and turn out to be Amanda's).

Edited by My Way, Feb 19, 2012 @ 9:41 AM.

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#4782

ElectricBoogalo

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Posted Feb 19, 2012 @ 10:36 AM

As much as I wanted to like Carla (who will always be second Coco to me), she lost me once she grabbed that tablet. Hell, even Amanda showed more hesitation about letting Alex die than Carla did. You know you are one cold hearted singled minded "stupid lady" when Amanda seems to care more about whether someone lives or dies.
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#4783

Ashe F

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Posted Feb 19, 2012 @ 1:07 PM

Bitch isn't a word people can't use, but there are some instances when it is the first insult thrown at women, no matter what their actions were. I can understand how someone had a problem with Birkoff saying it because the word is used almost strictly for women as a huge insult on television. Now it would have been one thing if Carla was acting like Amanda, but for the most part Carla was stupid and thoughtless. So I get it why the original person who posted had a problem with that insult being used instead of another.


I actually don't have a problem with it being used in the show because it's exactly what Birkhoff would say. He's the kind of guy who plays video games on headsets and probably says "bitch" and "whore" and "f**" all sorts of things really thoughtlessly. He probably also uses the term for any woman who makes him feel weak or helpless (and has said it to all of them so far). But I do like that flaw in his character from a writer-standpoint. I don't think it makes him awesomesauce, but I do think it was awesome for him to point a gun to her head and I do wish he would've just shot her because I'm also sick of her already.

But if I were Birkhoff's friend I would've still been like, "Hey, dude, why do you call like, every woman who wrongs you to be a bitch? Not cute."
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#4784

snuffles

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Posted Feb 19, 2012 @ 2:15 PM

Also, I can see her trusting Percy more than Nikita at this point, because during most of their acquaitance, Nikita was a junkie. Who relapsed. She's pretty impressive now, but who knows how long that will last? Meanwhile, Percy recognized Carla's work and helped her bring it to a new level.

Very good point. It makes more sense and explains Carla's assine behavior.

Totally called Carla seeing Amanda and Ari together and not knowing who Ari was. More speculation (or rather wish). Please do not make Max turn out to be Ari's son. I know Max is younger than what Ari's son is supposed to be, but there can be voodoo done. Plus, eww if Cassandra and Ari were together (because of the age difference).
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#4785

Rebeca23

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Posted Feb 19, 2012 @ 5:30 PM

I think that at least for me, is how you use the word bitch.
For me Amanda is a crazy psychotic bitch that I love and Carla is just meh.. She´s so dumb! Amanda and Percy are basically the same they´re evil and they can actually pull it off. Percy will only use her to go against Amanda and hurt Nikita, but then what? He seems to be fond of her I don´t think he´ll just shoot her point black.

Maybe Carla just wants to find a way to gave her life a meaning or just return to the point when her life got ruined and she thinks Percy is her only choice, too bad she decided to endangered Alex´s life which is something Nikita, Michael and Birkkof are not going to let happen.

Like someone said maybe nobody explained to her all the things Percy did, if they did and she still believes it was all because of Amanda´s influence on him, then she´ll be one of the most stupid characters I ever saw on TV.

Does anyone knows when are we going to find out if Nikita is gonna get cancelled or not?

Edited by Rebeca23, Feb 19, 2012 @ 5:49 PM.

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#4786

nikitaspy

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Posted Feb 19, 2012 @ 7:34 PM

Thanks for the one-shot, willriley. It's great! Aww… Nikita is so lonely & melancholy. I feel her. It's nice you also give her some comfort in the conclusion with Alex on the other end of the phone. Well done.

Let's give Carla a chance for some redemption guys. Her hatred for Amanda & desire to restore Division has clouded her judgment. She could take a bullet or two for Nikita as a body shield when she finally realizes how evil Percy is at some point.

I just have a feeling Nikita might not be able to keep her promise to Carla that she will take down Amanda when she has a chance. Amanda still has Ryan locked somewhere. She could use him in exchange for her life or some sort.
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#4787

FurryFury

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Posted Feb 19, 2012 @ 7:37 PM

Oh, what an awesome episode. I just love this show to death. It's probably the only ongoing series I watch that consistently delivers, every week (well, every episode). Well, that, and Community, and we all know what happened to that one :/

Also, I can't help it, Amanda and Ari are just so damn rootable. It's not like I'm cheering for them to win over Team Nikita, no - but I definitely want them to take down Percy and Semak. Percy is a magnificent bastard, surely, but both A's are what TVTropes used to call Evilly Affable - villains who are so damn cool about their evilness it's impossible to truly hate them. I can't wait to learn more about their true motives and backstories.

Didn't miss Sean for one bit. I agree, he is superficial. I don't hate him, but there are much more interesting characters with less screentime. Hell, Carla, with all her stupidity, is already more interesting, although a big part of it is her relationship with Nikita (poor girl will be crushed when she learns about Carla's betrayal, no doubt).

Alex was awesome. Birkhoff was awesome as well. Michael had just the right amount of screentime (my reaction to him is similar to Sean - he isn't a bad character, but isn't interesting enough on his own to warrant the amount of screentime he gets; also, he's responsible for the only weak episode this season, the one about Cassandra and Max).
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#4788

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Posted Feb 19, 2012 @ 7:57 PM

I LOVED THIS EPISODE!!! I always get a little concerned when shows of this type pull back on the action, but once again, Nikita demonstrates what a wonderfully rich tapestry of characters that is has, and continues to redefine and develop the way that the characters relate and are related to each other. Moreover, these strings come from somewhere totally plausible within the Nikita-verse without being predictable. I honestly do not know how people live without watching this show!

Back up to a .6 this week! I mean, it's still on the bubble, but going up even a little is better than holding steady or even worse falling. Hoping it doesn't fall in the finals on Monday.


Yes! I was so excited when I saw that! I had hoped that it would be pulling at least a 0.7 (and Supernatural pulling a 0.9), but a 0.6 is not bad, and this week, of all weeks, it has come at a really good time due to the low ratings for most shows across the board for Monday-Thursday.

If I lose Niktia and Community in one TV season, I lose faith in the American public.

Right there with you. Those two are the only shows I'm crazy about right now, and if I lose both at the same time I may have to go Nikita on somebody. What exactly does the CW think can do better in the worst timeslot?


Apparently, Community is looking rather good, and by good, I mean on-the-bubble rather than safe, particularly the way that Whitney and Chelsea have been rating the last couple of weeks. The benefit of Community is syndication economics.

Though I had forbidden to believe that both shows would be renewed, I am now very hopeful and optimistic that this will be the case!
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#4789

SDcat2009

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Posted Feb 19, 2012 @ 8:07 PM

So, is Sean not even a part of the show anymore? I liked his dynamic with Alex.
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#4790

IttyBittyFlavur

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Posted Feb 19, 2012 @ 8:33 PM

I don't know when "bitch" became a word that we can't use anymore.


Well, now I feel old. I remember when "bitch" (in the pejorative sense) was considered a swear word that shouldn't be used publicly, and I was kind of wondering when it became un-blink-worthy.

Granted, "you utter nitwit" doesn't have quite the same power, but it would be nice to see some variety in insults used against women. (Hmm, something about that didn't come out quite right...)
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#4791

caitlin claire

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Posted Feb 19, 2012 @ 10:45 PM

So, is Sean not even a part of the show anymore? I liked his dynamic with Alex.

I believe he's back next episode though I'm not 100% sure. He's definitely still filming - Lyndsy posted a non spoilery BTS photo of them together last week.
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#4792

nikitaspy

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Posted Feb 20, 2012 @ 12:21 AM

Reading back at the "Origins" synopsis, I thought we're supposed to know the night Nikita was arrested and why she was stunned of the revelation, but I don't recall seeing any scene of it?

It's hard to believe if Craig or nobody knows about this misinformed episode. The title is "Origins" and its main character is Nikita, and yet, there's no revealing about her actual origin?
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#4793

Cress

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Posted Feb 20, 2012 @ 3:37 AM

I thought "Origins" was referring to the origin of Division. We already got the flashback to the night Nikita shot the cop. This episode was explaining how Carla started division, fought with Amanda, and then had to flee because of Amanda's assassination attempt. When Carla got her fingerprints on the gun Nikita used to shoot the cop, it alerted Amanda to the fact that Carla was still alive, so Amanda deliberately recruited Nikita so that she could ask about where Carla was. So it is sort of an explanation of why Nikita was taken from death row and turned into a Division agent.
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#4794

nikitaspy

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Posted Feb 20, 2012 @ 1:16 PM

True, we got the flashback to where Nikita shot the cop. That was in the previous episode "Rogue" though. Aside from how Division started, I thought "Origins" is supposed to include about Nikita's origin as well. It's what the impression I got from the synopsis. Yes, there was also a flashback that Amanda asking Nikita about Carla, but Nikita wasn't shocked at that in terms of what the synopsis depicted. Perhaps they were running out of time for "Origins" and decided to wait for the future episode?
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#4795

willriley01

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Posted Feb 20, 2012 @ 2:05 PM

I didn't think the people on the show had anything to do with the synopsis that is on the tv or on sites?

I don't really read things like that, but just from the different arcs going on right now, I wouldn't think that we would learn anything about Nikita's origins/real parents yet. We've got Michael and Alex that are dealing with family things this season, and Nikita has had all of the people in their group hurt/taken away. She thinks Ryan is dead, she almost got Birkoff killed when Michael stayed with Max. The way she lost/hurt Michael and Alex are obvious so I won't get into that.

Didn't the show creators say something about having a three season outline/plan for the show? I would think that a reveal about Nikita's real parents wouldn't be until the last season. Plus they had that fake guy that Division planted already this season. If Team Nikita managed to get Division/Percy or Amanda, then they could bring up her parentage again- and I don't see them getting Percy or Amanda until the end of this season.
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#4796

Ashe F

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Posted Feb 20, 2012 @ 2:33 PM

Am I the only one who would be totally fine if we never found out who Nikita's biological parents are? I'm completely okay with the story of her being someone who went into the foster system. Her father being someone who was in the military would work out, and I'm sure she really wants to know, but I'm not sure it's 100% necessary to the story.
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#4797

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Posted Feb 20, 2012 @ 4:30 PM

Have they gave any definitive location of the new rebel base? I know it has to be in the Tri-state area since the press conference was there (NY?) and Michael had no problem making it there to help Alex.

I know Division is in Jersey since they flashed that.
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#4798

yrnamehere

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Posted Feb 20, 2012 @ 5:01 PM

Now, remember how Division was laid out in season one? [snip] Now look at what it looks like in season two, after Amanda takes over: Operations takes up the large open area, watched over by Amanda from her giant office, while the recruits have completely vanished from sight.

Carla won the argument about the layout... and the first thing that Amanda does once she takes over is replace Carla's design with her own. Fourteen years later.


Amanda did more than than redesign Operations, she also completely shut-down the recruitment program. Someone (was it Alex?) said so at the beginning of the season. I guess that can be construed as a big FU to both Carla and Percy since for both of them the foundation of the program was the transformation of society's rejects to useful citizens.

Re: Semak

But Ari can't kill him yet because that won't get Ari what he wants: control of Zetrov. (As much as Zetrov's H.R. practices seem to scream "We're a supervillain organization!" they apparently don't use the Klingon Promotion method.) For that he either needs someone with a legitimate claim (i.e. Alex) to take over being the public face of the company while Ari and Amanda pull their strings from the shadows... or else he needs to expose Semak doing something that even Zetrov employees would consider heinous (i.e. killing Alex) so that he'll have an excuse to eliminate Semak and replace him while appearing to be in the right.


My thing is why? Why does he need someone with a legitimate claim? Everyone keeps saying it, but it's a corporation, not a royal dynasty. And even if he did need someone from the family, what about Katya? The whole world thinks she's dead and it turns out Semak faked her death and has been keeping her on ice in a drugged-out zombie state? I can think of several ways Ari (and Amanda) could use that to their advantage to discredit BOTH Semak and Katya with Zetrov and the rest of the world that involve Alex, but doesn't have to.

But leaving all that aside for a minute, all the politics and the who knows what that can do damage to whom, I think what it boils down to for me with Semak is we keep being told how important he is, but I don't have any sense from any of the characters that if he just disappeared anyone would even know or care he was gone. It's basically a complete lack of charisma that every other character seems to possess to some degree or another (I'm looking at you Sean Bland) so that you can see why someone would follow them and do terrible things for them. On the Russian side, Ari certainly has it, but when has Semak ever done anything except tell Ari to do something? Ok, he did kill that one guy, but using the gun Ari left out for him. When has anyone (except drugged up Katya and that's hardly a testament to his powers of persuasion) demonstrated personal loyalty to him the way say, Roan, has demonstrated loyalty to Percy?

The tl;dr version is I would like some more showing of Semak's power and a lot less telling since I'm not buying the telling.

Edited by yrnamehere, Feb 20, 2012 @ 5:26 PM.

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#4799

Raijin

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Posted Feb 20, 2012 @ 6:10 PM

Am I the only one who would be totally fine if we never found out who Nikita's biological parents are?


I'm fine with it too. Not only is it irrelevant to the story it's a cliché that's been done to death including in this show with Alex.
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#4800

nikitaspy

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Posted Feb 20, 2012 @ 9:45 PM

I'm fine without knowing who Nikita's parents are, or if they going to reveal in the end of the season. What I was wondering is the night Nikita arrested that the synopsis was saying to disclose in "Origins", with shocking revelation.

Have they gave any definitive location of the new rebel base? I know it has to be in the Tri-state area since the press conference was there (NY?) and Michael had no problem making it there to help Alex.

I don't pay much attention to the location at all but I kept thinking the press conf of Semak was in Russia because that's where he's based and got all the advanced equipments and technie guys working for him as seen in "Origins." But then Michael couldn't possibly fly that fast to Alex's rescue in just minutes away.

Are these the Tri-state you talking about, naming New York, New Jersey and Maryland?
New York ?
New Jersey – Division & probably team Nikita, since Alex can go in and out of Division anytime.
Maryland – US Senator Madeline & homeless Carla before
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