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#2881

bella1013

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Posted Mar 31, 2012 @ 4:31 AM

The bit that I really don't get is how Nathan could have not known as an adult that his condition was a Trouble, and yet his father acted like that was a failing in him because he didn't see what was in front of him. Did his dad never explain his condition to him when he was a kid?


I'm guessing no. I mean, how can you explain it if you don't understand it and you'd rather they don't either?

Say The Chief adopting Nathan was a necessity, not so much because it was the noble thing to do (at the time).

If the triangle consists of Lucy/Crocker/Wournos, and the Chief didn't intend having on having children (with the added risk of passing his Trouble) but he was forced to do it so the spell would be broken in the next cycle.


re: episode

I like this one, it's easily my second or third favourite of season 2. Mainly because the previous ones were all about boyfriends and relationships and identity crises. It was a nice change of pace.

Still can not grasp the whole "Penny supposedly died in a car crash, but has lived on the outskirts of town for thirty years" concept. So in all that time, she never ventured off the ranch to go see how Hannah was doing? I'm sure she's had it rough with the Rev, but that's a pretty shitty thing to do to your kid.

I wonder why they kept that picture of Lucy and The Chief on the fridge.

ETA to add something I found on Twitter: we're thisclose to s3, and I offer proof

Edited by bella1013, Apr 1, 2012 @ 10:42 AM.

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#2882

Shanna Marie

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Posted Apr 3, 2012 @ 4:53 PM

Someone must have really pissed off Marian Caldwell (weather lady), given the number of tornadoes we've had today. And you know you're a Haven fan when that's what goes through your mind as you watch live TV news footage of semi trailers doing pinwheels in the air.

There was a glitch on the boards when I posted the announcement of the "Tides That Bind" recap so that it never showed up for me as a "new post." If you didn't see that post and don't want to miss my insightful commentary (ha!), you may need to go up a few posts.

More thoughts on "The Tides That Bind": I wonder if it was intentional or accidental that the Colonial silversmith who may have made Duke's silver box had the same name as the fish people in this episode because Duke didn't seem to make the connection. It's a fairly unusual name, but I think even if the name had been "Smith" or "Jones," if he'd just found out the box that might have something to do with protecting him from the tattoo people was made by someone with the same name as some tattoo people he met, he should have made the connection. But all he asked about was the tattoo and his father's death. I suppose maybe he didn't want to let them know he had the box, but he wasn't exactly firing on all cylinders in this episode. For a paranoid con man who keeps guns hidden all over the place, he's awfully gullible. He didn't believe the Rev when the Rev told him his father died because of the Troubles, so why is he apparently willing to believe it because he found that typed on a piece of paper? And why would the Rev need to keep a list of people killed by the Troubled in a secret compartment? Since his entire power play is based on the fact that the Troubled are a menace, he wouldn't hide that list. He'd post it on billboards all over town, put up a tribute web site, insert it into his church bulletins and hold very public memorial services where the names would be read as a bell tolled. Duke even maybe sort of believing anything on that list is even dumber than Nathan believing that Duke kidnapped Audrey. At least Nathan has precedent for Duke being untrustworthy, plus he'd just seen Duke acting very strangely with the glowing eyes thingy and he'd learned that Duke had been ordered to kill her. Duke has no reason to believe the Rev about anything.

Penny's willingness to leave her daughter behind does bug me. If her husband was emotionally abusive and controlling to her, why leave her daughter with him? I can see where faking the daughter's death in addition to her own would have been cruel, even if it was her only option for escape, but bailing and leaving a child alone to deal with that (and think her mother was dead) while running off with her lover is equally awful and very selfish.

It occurred to me during church on Sunday that the Rev was going about it the wrong way, but he might have been onto something in dealing with the Troubles through prayer. I don't think it could be "cured" the way he talked, but then I'm not sure how much he believed that. It was probably more of a witch trial thing -- if the prayer didn't work to cure you, then it proved you were cursed beyond redemption and could therefore be killed with impunity. But we know that there's a strong stress link to the Troubles. The condition is activated in the first place by extreme emotional stress, and then some of the conditions flare up under stress, so anything that helps ease stress and keeps people grounded and centered might help people prone to Troubles avoid having their conditions activated and could help keep Troubles from flaring up. That could include religious practices like prayer or meditation. Ritual can also be very centering, whether it's taking communion, lighting candles, praying the rosary or walking a prayer labyrinth. Then there's the support and accountability that comes from a religious community, and then there's sacred music. I think it's impossible to feel stressed while listening to Gregorian chant or Eastern Orthodox choral music. I just wouldn't recommend that a Troubled person volunteer to direct the preschool choir. If my pastor were in Haven, he'd probably have Troubled support groups, prayer circles, yoga classes and that sort of thing to help the Troubled. That's why, with all the steeples we see in that town, it would be nice to know what all those other churches are doing and what they think of what the Rev's people are doing.

And now I think I need to listen to Rachmaninoff's Vespers after spending the afternoon listening to warning sirens. Marian, chill, please.
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#2883

AshBlue

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Posted Apr 5, 2012 @ 10:35 PM

ETA: The bit that I really don't get is how Nathan could have not known as an adult that his condition was a Trouble, and yet his father acted like that was a failing in him because he didn't see what was in front of him. Did his dad never explain his condition to him when he was a kid?


That seems to be a recurring theme-- and not in the way of the Harry Potter example upthread where it's probably better if the child doesn't know. But other fathers have not prepared their kids for what might happen-- Dwight's father let him go to Afghanistan, and the grave-digging guy had no idea either which ended up having a bad (fatal) effect on him as well.

Still can not grasp the whole "Penny supposedly died in a car crash, but has lived on the outskirts of town for thirty years" concept. So in all that time, she never ventured off the ranch to go see how Hannah was doing?


That seemed incongruous to me as well, though perhaps she did? I don't remember whether it was specifically stated that she never left at all?

I wonder why they kept that picture of Lucy and The Chief on the fridge?


That's the one thing I remember about that episode as being a little too "placed" (to further the plot) to be likely. But who knows, I have friends that put pictures on their fridges and never take any down, just adding to them for years like wallpaper. Possibly by the end of the episode they would have shown her the picture anyway.
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#2884

Spirit of 74

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Posted Apr 6, 2012 @ 2:26 PM

Sorry - a bit late to the party this week (more on that later!)

I found when rewatching for the recap that I like this episode more than I remembered. For one thing, it's nice and twisty, with the murder -- the actual "case" -- being a purely human killing for human motives and with human methods.


I liked this episode from the get-go. As much as I love Haven, I do find some of the supporting characters kind of blur together when remembered over the course of a season. But, for some reason, I find this episode extremely memorable. The first scenes, with the boys holding the other little one under the water, are just so chilling, and it stays that way right up until the big reveal. It also has a lot to do with the final scenes, which are just so evocative. I guess some people would say they were just plain cheesy (and I know the robes are kind of silly) but as a whole, it just works for me. The image of those black-clad people entering the water together, leaving loved ones behind, set to that haunting soundtrack ... I don't know. It works.

The piano playing had to have been Lucy, since she was playing from memory a song that came after Sarah's time. I've been wondering about the thing that comes up later about knowing that dried grass and animal dung make a fire that can last a long time. Lucy seems to have been kind of earth-mothery, and the Real Lucy was out fishing, so maybe she was outdoorsy, but then that could also have been the kind of thing a Colonial-era woman would have known.


You're probably right about the piano-playing (although if her pre-Lucy incarnation had been a sufficiently accomplished pianist, she might be able to apply that skill to a song heard much later, if you see what I mean). I guess we're probably meant to infer that the outdoorsy stuff comes from Lucy. The most interesting thing is that if she can access things Lucy or Sarah knew, that clearly weren't programmed into her Audrey persona, without ever remembering being Lucy or being Sarah, it may give her an edge. The unfortunate thing seems to be that while she can remember things from Original Lucy (and maybe Original Sarah), and definitely from Original Audrey, she doesn't seem able to remember any of their times in Haven. Which, obviously, would be the most helpful. "False" memories can stick around, whereas "real" memories fade away. Doesn't seem fair.

This comes up again in "The Tides that Bind." The Chief took Nathan with him when visiting the compound, presumably as part of his training Nathan to deal with things, since that seemed to have taught Nathan that they weren't a cult to be feared. He learned to be compassionate and tolerant. And yet the Chief didn't tell Nathan about their Trouble, which you'd think would have been pretty important. They're even surprised that he didn't know, which was why they were initially so hostile to him. They thought surely his father would have told him about their Trouble, and yet there he was demanding that they hand over the boy, even though it would kill him. They must have thought he was a real jerk. As for why not tell, at the risk of sounding incredibly geeky, this is kind of reminding me of the Harry Potter books, where Dumbledore knows the role Harry is going to have to play in defeating Voldemort but keeps him out of the loop and doesn't tell him what he needs to do. He doesn't tell Harry about the prophecy that one of them will have to kill the other, and he doesn't tell Harry that he'll have to die for Voldemort to truly be killed because if he knew, then he could dread it or try to avoid it, while not knowing allows him to figure it out and make the choice for himself when the time comes. So maybe it's something like that.


Yes. It's the same reason why Dumbledore has to die before the end of the story, and let Harry finish the quest himself. It's why Gandalf has to die (temporarily) in Lord of the Rings, and let Frodo carry on without the benefit and burden of his wisdom. And it's the same reason the Chief has to die before the Troubles become so desperate. The "wise counselor" has to be taken out of the picture; they can only guide the hero so far. This would further support the idea that Nathan is to be the central figure in the 2010 cycle of the Troubles in Haven, I guess.

I wonder why they kept that picture of Lucy and The Chief on the fridge.


I can't quite remember - was it quite a big collection of photos? It's possible they were just hoarders or sentimentalists, remembering people who'd been kind to them. I thought at first it might be for future generations of male Glendowers, letting them know who they could trust, but if that's the case, it seems to have failed miserably.

I can't understand the thing with Penny and how she left Hannah, either. Do we know for certain that Penny is Hannah's mother? Could Penny have been the Rev's second wife, and Hannah's stepmother? Not that that makes it any better, but perhaps a bit more understandable.

Finally, the excuse for my tardiness. The good news is, I'm finally off bed rest, but soon I'll be wishing I was back there! The new additions (Daughter Number 2 and Son Number 3) finally arrived last Saturday, with a surprising lack of fuss! Happy, healthy and whole. We are very lucky (but also very, very tired!)
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#2885

bella1013

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Posted Apr 7, 2012 @ 11:55 AM

Syfy Benelux is doing a Haven marathon/force feed this week. The episodes are shown slightly out of order, and Roots is curiously omitted.

I can't understand the thing with Penny and how she left Hannah, either. Do we know for certain that Penny is Hannah's mother? Could Penny have been the Rev's second wife, and Hannah's stepmother? Not that that makes it any better, but perhaps a bit more understandable.



Pretty sure that the Rev says "Our daughter".



Congratulations, Spirit of 74.
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#2886

Shanna Marie

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Posted Apr 7, 2012 @ 3:18 PM

Here's the recap for "Friend or Faux." Sorry it's late this week, and probably not as detailed as usual (and there are some things I probably should have gone back and checked) but I sing in the church choir, and I'm hosting Easter for the family this year, so it's been a busy week. Not as busy as having twins, though. Congratulations, Spirit of 74! I will try not to get gushy even though I'm as bad as Nathan is around babies.

I can't quite remember - was it quite a big collection of photos? It's possible they were just hoarders or sentimentalists, remembering people who'd been kind to them.


I thought it looked like a cluster of photos. I should admit that I probably would have still had the 27-year-old photo on my fridge. I have baby pictures of kids who are 11 years old now, years worth of friends' Christmas card photos, and a photo of a dog that died in the early 90s on my fridge. Plus, that was a photo from their wedding, and it included a friend who disappeared soon afterward, so they might have kept it around for that purpose. Or it may have even come out recently after the Chief's death, if when they got the news they had one of those "remember when he came to our wedding?" moments and got out the old photos. At any rate, there's enough leeway there that the photo being there doesn't feel contrived to me.

As for "Friend or Faux," there's a lot I like about this one. I'm a Doctor Who fan, so running through corridors is my idea of entertainment, and I love it when Audrey, Nathan and Duke are all acting like part of a team and being friends. I liked it when Duke actually introduced Audrey and Nathan as his friends, and I loved Audrey and Duke watching over Nathan and being kind of protective of him (even while amassing future blackmail material) while he got drunk. If they're going to do an episode where the Trouble matches what's going on in the lives of the main characters, this is the way to do it. Instead of Audrey learning A Valuable Lesson, it was more like she was the one applying what she had already learned and using that to connect to the Copy guy. She may have figured out a few things from talking through it and thinking out loud, but it wasn't quite as "Afterschool Special" as "Roots" was in connecting the Trouble to the personal plot.

However, I also find this episode a bit frustrating because it could have and should have been better. It's the one I'm most likely to try to mentally re-write. For one thing, I'd have cut the opening sequence that clues the audience in on the copy thing because I think it would have been more interesting if we'd been on the same page as Nathan, Audrey and Duke in figuring out what was going on. We didn't know enough about the Trouble and how it worked for us knowing about the copies to create any kind of suspense or dread from knowing more than the characters. It just worked to take away the anticipation. Cutting that part and starting with the guy coming into the bar looking for the kid would also allow them time later in the episode to make things flow better together. It's so jarring that they cut from Nathan lying unconscious on the ground with Audrey staring at that coin and not immediately going to check on her partner to make sure he's even still alive, straight to Nathan going into the meeting with the selectman. One second, he's motionless on the ground, the next moment he's up and around, with just an offhand reference to his recovery. I don't necessarily need to see Audrey sitting vigil at the hospital until he wakes up, but maybe just hold on the scene a bit longer and show Audrey checking his pulse and him starting to stir from her touch and her telling him it's okay and the ambulance is on the way. Then maybe flip the scenes so the next scene is Duke and the kid talking, with maybe the kid asking Duke if his friend is going to be okay before the kid's dad shows up. Then we could have the selectman scene with Nathan. Then I also would have liked more transition from Nathan getting demoted to him getting drunk. We just see his immediate reaction, where he's holding it together, and then we see him already wasted. I would have liked to see what happened in between -- how did he tell Audrey, how did Duke find out, how did the drinking binge start? In my head, Audrey's hanging out at the Gull when he shows up to tell her, and then Duke pours him a drink.

Meanwhile, the whole files thing doesn't make a lot of sense. First, why would Nathan need to edit the reports? Don't he and Audrey do most of the Troubles busting? So why don't they just write the "official" version in the first place? If he's altering other cops' reports, then any anti-Troubles cop (and we learn in the next episode that there are some) could have busted him. I would imagine the old Chief had an unwritten policy about not putting anything unbelievable in reports -- like the way he initially scoffed at Audrey's out-there theories, even though they were right -- and Nathan could have just made it clear he was continuing that policy. If he's keeping a second set of "what really happened" files for future reference, surely Nathan isn't dumb enough to keep them in his office, other than maybe in a secret compartment of a drawer behind his essential oils. If they're just comparing the official reports to what they know actually happened, they wouldn't have needed a tipoff from Evi. Not to mention that the selectman tries to bust Nathan on what's in the report of what happened at that resort, and chances are that with a head injury bad enough to keep him unconscious as long as he was, Nathan doesn't remember any of those events -- possibly even that whole day -- and couldn't have had anything to do with that report, other than signing off on it. I know it's all to set up the next episode, since that one won't work with Nathan in charge, and to set up Duke finding out about Evi's double dealing, but what they did doesn't work if you think about it at all.
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#2887

bella1013

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Posted Apr 8, 2012 @ 2:18 AM

Gosh, Friend or Faux is one of those episodes that doesn't really rate on my like/dislike scale.

It's a nice enough episode, I suppose. Good freak of the week storytelling, Nathan dancing, vegemite. But other then that it's not that special. I agree that it could have been better if they'd switched some stuff around.

Edited by bella1013, Apr 10, 2012 @ 12:14 PM.

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#2888

bella1013

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Posted Apr 10, 2012 @ 12:13 PM

Double posting for a good reason:

Wait for it...

Wait a little longer...





Nora Zuckerman‏@NoraZuckermanReply
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@LisaStevenson24 Yes, Adam #Edge Copeland will appear in #Haven season 3 -- we're lucky to have him!


Happy Easter!
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#2889

Spirit of 74

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Posted Apr 11, 2012 @ 6:43 PM

That's awesome, bella1013, that we have Dwight back for S3. Haven may revolve around Audrey/Nathan/Duke, but it needs more than that, and too many characters get killed off (in all shows these days, it seems). A belated Happy Easter to you as well!

Friend or Faux:

Good freak of the week storytelling, Nathan dancing, vegemite.


I have to say, the Vegemite thing took me right out of the story. Chris is in London, I'm married to a Brit, and as others have said, it's Marmite, dumbass. Unless you're in Sydney, which I think we can all appreciate is a long way from London.

It's petty, I know. And your point stands: great "this week's featured Trouble" story, and Nathan dancing, which I watched from between my fingers, so awesomely awkward was it!

I love it when Audrey, Nathan and Duke are all acting like part of a team and being friends. I liked it when Duke actually introduced Audrey and Nathan as his friends, and I loved Audrey and Duke watching over Nathan and being kind of protective of him (even while amassing future blackmail material) while he got drunk.


This is the soul of the show, and while it wouldn't be good to dwell on it every week, there are times when we need to see it. Retrospectively, knowing what's coming after this episode, it was a great thing to do.

Instead of Audrey learning A Valuable Lesson, it was more like she was the one applying what she had already learned and using that to connect to the Copy guy. She may have figured out a few things from talking through it and thinking out loud, but it wasn't quite as "Afterschool Special" as "Roots" was in connecting the Trouble to the personal plot.


When I first watched, I thought that the Single Best Thing about this episode was that Audrey connected to the Copy, not the Original. I could go on, at length, about what this means for the show and the character of Audrey Parker. Briefly, it shows that she's accepted her memories as false but real, programmed but useful, and can add this to her arsenal of skills that help the Troubled. More importantly, perhaps, it shows that she understands the quandary facing Troubled people, that they're somehow apart from the rest of society, wondering if they're good enough, right enough to belong. At this point, even with her immunity, she's not just their refuge: she's one of them.

However, I also find this episode a bit frustrating because it could have and should have been better. It's the one I'm most likely to try to mentally re-write. For one thing, I'd have cut the opening sequence that clues the audience in on the copy thing because I think it would have been more interesting if we'd been on the same page as Nathan, Audrey and Duke in figuring out what was going on.


This never occurred to me while watching, but now it seems obvious. It also seems such an elemental part of that narrative that neglecting to do it this way must have been a conscious choice, which makes me wonder what the writers were thinking.

It's so jarring that they cut from Nathan lying unconscious on the ground with Audrey staring at that coin and not immediately going to check on her partner to make sure he's even still alive, straight to Nathan going into the meeting with the selectman. One second, he's motionless on the ground, the next moment he's up and around, with just an offhand reference to his recovery.


It appears I never invested a great deal of thought in this episode because, of course, you're right. There's a tendency in many shows to treat any non-fatal injury to their main characters as trivial, purely because the audience knows they're not going to die. But the characters don't know that, and this is the kind of error Haven doesn't often make.

Meanwhile, the whole files thing doesn't make a lot of sense.


It's a Catch 22, at best. Omitting unbelievable incidents from the reports may be universally acknowledges as standard procedure in Haven, but it's an easy out for any 'powerful' person looking to make changes in local law enforcement. I suspect the Chief knew this, and always walked a fine line, for so long that the selectmen knew they'd never catch him out. But Nathan's new to this, and the Rev has an ax to grind, so there's no easy option. Vince and Dave change the reports in the paper, Dwight cleans up the evidence, but whoever sits in the chief's chair is answerable.

This episode definitely sets up a season-ending arc. I'm excited to watch it all over again!

Thanks for the congratulations, guys. We're all pretty exhausted over here, but very happy. Amazingly, both my twins turned up weighing the same, 6lb 4oz, which I'm led to believe is fairly unusual, but since then, my little girl definitely rules the roost. Everyone said there'd be an Alpha twin, and she's clearly it. Benefit of being nine minutes older, maybe!
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#2890

bella1013

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Posted Apr 12, 2012 @ 1:39 PM

Maybe Nathan should have locked the door and the cabinet. Or not keep the files in there at all.

I think too much.
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#2891

Shanna Marie

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Posted Apr 12, 2012 @ 1:42 PM

Since I was a little late last week, I'm early this week. The recap for "Lockdown" is up. And thus starts the increasingly tense run up to the finale. Only three episodes left, and then what will we do until the new season? (Well, I likely will be writing a book, but I'm speaking rhetorically.)

I'm glad we're now guaranteed more Dwight. I enjoy his respectfully antagonistic relationship with Duke (as we see in the next couple of episodes), but I really love his kind of big brother/mentor role with Nathan. In his previous appearance, he was all "yes, it's adorable that you're trying to help, but get out of my way, kid" with Nathan, but by the end of "Lockdown," he calls him "Chief." Awww. I didn't realize until I was watching to write the recap, but Nathan was actually joking with Dwight at the end when he tells him he's glad to have him around. Not that he didn't mean it sincerely, but in that context, Dwight had just told him he attracted bullets, so Nathan was able to stand next to him in a hail of gunfire and not get a scratch, so that was also some rather dark, gallows humor of "yeah, I'll need you around to draw the bullets away from me." Given Nathan's Trouble and his talent for getting himself injured without knowing it, Dwight really would come in handy.

I have to say, the Vegemite thing took me right out of the story. Chris is in London, I'm married to a Brit, and as others have said, it's Marmite, dumbass. Unless you're in Sydney, which I think we can all appreciate is a long way from London.


To further confuse matters, they do actually reference Australia in the conversation, where she talks about Australians who like Vegemite, and then Nathan does an Australian accent in teasing her (which from the sound of things in Tweets after that episode was not scripted). So I don't know where they were going with that. If they weren't planning to let Lucas Bryant show off his ability to do an Australian accent, then there's no reason for it not to have been Marmite, unless they thought American viewers wouldn't know what Marmite was but would have heard of Vegemite.

More importantly, perhaps, it shows that she understands the quandary facing Troubled people, that they're somehow apart from the rest of society, wondering if they're good enough, right enough to belong. At this point, even with her immunity, she's not just their refuge: she's one of them.


I think that also shows up in the way she deals with Nathan -- she's seriously worried about him and his self-image and what that might lead him to do. In a later episode when he guesses that maybe a Troubled person might be killing out of self-loathing, she mentions how concerned she is by how quickly he came up with that profile. He's let slip a few times the idea that he doesn't think he can have a normal life, that he's not sure anyone can love someone like him. I guess you can't grow up hearing how cursed you are without some of that sinking in. She's new to it, but she's getting that sense of being different. I guess some of that also comes from the Audrey memories, where she's also always an outsider even before learning she's not even "real." I imagine it must be terrifying to realize that nothing that you remember is real, but at the same time it might be kind of liberating to realize you're not bound by what you remember, and I can see wanting to try all kinds of things to see if you really like or hate it or if you just remember liking or hating it -- food, music, movies, etc. They could have some fun with this with her down the line.

There's a tendency in many shows to treat any non-fatal injury to their main characters as trivial, purely because the audience knows they're not going to die. But the characters don't know that, and this is the kind of error Haven doesn't often make.


They handled it pretty well in the pilot, when Nathan got shot and the follow-up is Audrey bringing him flowers and finding him asleep, with his arm in a sling, and his father watching over him through the office window. He's not in pain, but he still looks a little woozy. It's not getting into hurt/comfort territory, but it shows that there are consequences, whether or not he feels pain. Really, I would have been happy here just seeing her kneel to check his pulse and maybe Duke coming in from outside to say that Henry got away safely and that he can hear the ambulance sirens coming. I'm pleased that they didn't do the "TV head injury" where he sits up after the action's over and asks what happened, and everyone thinks it's funny that he missed everything, but they were treating it like it was fairly serious, so there needed to be some transition so I don't have to write it for myself.

Omitting unbelievable incidents from the reports may be universally acknowledges as standard procedure in Haven, but it's an easy out for any 'powerful' person looking to make changes in local law enforcement. I suspect the Chief knew this, and always walked a fine line, for so long that the selectmen knew they'd never catch him out. But Nathan's new to this, and the Rev has an ax to grind, so there's no easy option. Vince and Dave change the reports in the paper, Dwight cleans up the evidence, but whoever sits in the chief's chair is answerable.



This is yet another thing we can probably blame the old Chief for, since it doesn't seem like he clued Nathan in on how he handled things. Obviously, there were old files with mentions of the Troubles because it seems like Nathan now has access to them, but Nathan is generally shown as being very smart and pretty savvy of local politics, so it just strikes me as wrong that he wasn't more clever in covering his tracks. He knows the Rev is out to get him and has goodness knows who in town in his pocket, and he shows constant awareness of limiting the number of eyewitnesses or finding the judge who's most likely to be sympathetic to get a warrant. So surely he would have been more careful about the files -- have the official version that matches the newspaper and the clean-up in his office and not leaving an easy-to-find paper trail showing that anything was altered. Really, the whole thing was just to set up the next episode, which wouldn't have worked with Nathan in charge, and to make Duke doubt Evi, but it was like they sacrificed Nathan's intelligence to do so. Nathan's kind of an innocent and very unworldly in a lot of ways, but he's not dumb and he's not naive.

I'm actually planning to rewatch "Lockdown" after writing the recap, so I'll have lots more to say about that later in the weekend.
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#2892

Spirit of 74

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Posted Apr 13, 2012 @ 4:53 PM

And thus starts the increasingly tense run up to the finale. Only three episodes left, and then what will we do until the new season? (Well, I likely will be writing a book, but I'm speaking rhetorically.)


I thought these episodes were an excellent finale build-up. Separate stories, good individual episodes, but also clearly building to a big conclusion. And although two seasons probably can't count as a pattern, the season finales have so far been the strongest points of the show.

What will it be, like, 2-3 months until the new season? Gah.

I'm glad we're now guaranteed more Dwight. I enjoy his respectfully antagonistic relationship with Duke (as we see in the next couple of episodes), but I really love his kind of big brother/mentor role with Nathan. In his previous appearance, he was all "yes, it's adorable that you're trying to help, but get out of my way, kid" with Nathan, but by the end of "Lockdown," he calls him "Chief." Awww.


I totally missed that. Not the overall vibe, but calling him "Chief" at the end. That is worthy of an "awww." I have to say, I totally misread Dwight when he first appeared. Given his job, I thought his trouble was going to be something to do with making people forget, or at least remember differently, and that he wouldn't necessarily be a firm ally. Nice to be wrong.

I didn't realize until I was watching to write the recap, but Nathan was actually joking with Dwight at the end when he tells him he's glad to have him around. Not that he didn't mean it sincerely, but in that context, Dwight had just told him he attracted bullets, so Nathan was able to stand next to him in a hail of gunfire and not get a scratch, so that was also some rather dark, gallows humor of "yeah, I'll need you around to draw the bullets away from me."


I didn't catch that, either (must have been half asleep!) but it's a nice, realistic buddy moment, and I hope we can look forward to more of this. On a less amusing note, though, I'm pretty convinced that his ultimate destiny - as a bullet magnet and allied secondary character - will be to sacrifice himself for one of our 'heroes', most likely Nathan.

In a later episode when he guesses that maybe a Troubled person might be killing out of self-loathing, she mentions how concerned she is by how quickly he came up with that profile.


I think I've intended to comment on that line before, because it's so sharp and so telling. This is why it's great that she and Nathan became so close: his Trouble is not the kind that's going to suddenly blow up into massive death and destruction all over town; he doesn't need her help that way. But it's an everyday challenge, and a loyal, understanding friend is exactly what he needs.
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#2893

Danny Franks

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Posted Apr 13, 2012 @ 5:24 PM

I'm glad we're now guaranteed more Dwight. I enjoy his respectfully antagonistic relationship with Duke (as we see in the next couple of episodes), but I really love his kind of big brother/mentor role with Nathan. In his previous appearance, he was all "yes, it's adorable that you're trying to help, but get out of my way, kid" with Nathan, but by the end of "Lockdown," he calls him "Chief." Awww.


I never thought I'd be saying, 'yay, an ex-professional wrestler is going to be appearing', but Adam Copeland really impressed me as Dwight. Easy charisma, good presence and a nice, natural line delivery. You can't ask for more from a lot of seasoned actors, let alone a guy embarking on his second career.

I definitely hope to see his friendship with Nathan grow, because they play off each other so well as two stoic, deadpan guys. I really want a scene of the two of them giving Duke nothing but static over something, because I think Eric Balfour is at his best when bouncing off the stoic, deadpan guy.
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#2894

bella1013

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Posted Apr 14, 2012 @ 4:17 AM

Watched Lockdown last night. Thank you Syfy and your random Haven force feeds.

I don't have that much to add, but it struck me how passive those gunmen appeared to be. So they expected everyone to come fleeing out the backdoor, but when they don't they just fire and then leave?

I wonder why the virus appeared to have different incubation periods with different people.

Bye bye Chris and Evi, you were the worst love interests ever. I hope the writers have learned that the concept of love interests just doesn't work on this show. Not with Jess and not with these two. Definitely not with these two.
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#2895

Shanna Marie

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Posted Apr 14, 2012 @ 11:07 AM

it struck me how passive those gunmen appeared to be. So they expected everyone to come fleeing out the backdoor, but when they don't they just fire and then leave?


I think they were scared off by the sheriff's department. Dwight said the sheriff's people would be there soon, and the goons outside were gearing up to invade the police station, kill everyone and then get out of there. So they just had to hold them off until the sheriff's department got there. After the first volley of gunfire, we hear them shout, "Let's get out of here!" so the sheriff's department must have been nearly there and they didn't want to get caught. The gunmen had no legal standing to be there, and it would not have looked good to be a bunch of armed civilians surrounding the police station.

I wonder why the virus appeared to have different incubation periods with different people.


The impression I got was that it had something to do with anger. That first cop was pissy with Dwight then was really unhappy when Nathan showed up and forced him to release Dwight. Then Merrill went all black and veiny when he was ranting about the Troubled. Meanwhile, laid-back Stan seemed to just have black fingertips.

I don't think I'd watched this one after the finale, and there are a few things that I now see differently after knowing what comes later. One thing is that I thought it was stupid for the Rev's men to shoot Evi. The Rev's plan seemed to have been to give Duke another reason to hate the Troubled, but Duke saw her get shot and he'd be more likely to blame the people who shot her than to blame the Troubled. Then the Rev was dumb for thinking that Duke believed him in blaming the Troubled, but I guess he didn't care as long as he could string Duke along and force him to play nice by hinting at what he knew. But now that we know that Duke is Troubled and that the Rev had plans to use his power, I'm wondering if there was a different reason for the shooting. Duke's Trouble is pretty specific, so they wouldn't have known if it was "active," and the death of a loved one seems to be the surest way of triggering a Trouble, so what if they shot Evi right in front of Duke to be sure his Trouble got activated?

The other post-finale thought is that I'm now pretty certain that Audrey was planning to dump Chris from the start, especially since she confesses that Nathan is more than a partner to her and makes a move on him not too long after this. If she's in a relationship that's mostly physical and if her boyfriend has been away for a month, if she's planning on continuing the relationship the way it is, she'd plan their reunion for him coming to her place after work or her going to his place after work. Having him pick her up at the office to go to a town event seems like she doesn't want to be alone with him, especially since that kind of event is his idea of hell and the only way you'd usually get her to a quaint small-town event is if it's a crime scene. It's the way to avoid getting sidetracked by temptation while also avoiding a really ugly scene. Not to mention that she denied to Nathan that it was a date even though Nathan knew they were an item and refers to Chris as her boyfriend. She was probably going to give Chris the "it's not you, it's me" speech about how her job makes it impossible to have the kind of relationship he wants, and then he turned out to be kindred spirits with the psychopathic abuser in wishing he could control and manipulate her. The one good thing he did was spare her having to make the "You know what? It is you" speech by making it himself.
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#2896

Spirit of 74

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Posted Apr 14, 2012 @ 6:21 PM

The other post-finale thought is that I'm now pretty certain that Audrey was planning to dump Chris from the start, especially since she confesses that Nathan is more than a partner to her and makes a move on him not too long after this. If she's in a relationship that's mostly physical and if her boyfriend has been away for a month, if she's planning on continuing the relationship the way it is, she'd plan their reunion for him coming to her place after work or her going to his place after work. Having him pick her up at the office to go to a town event seems like she doesn't want to be alone with him, especially since that kind of event is his idea of hell and the only way you'd usually get her to a quaint small-town event is if it's a crime scene. It's the way to avoid getting sidetracked by temptation while also avoiding a really ugly scene.


I was always pretty convinced that when she told him to go to London, that was their 'real' goodbye. Anything after that was just softening the blow.

She was probably going to give Chris the "it's not you, it's me" speech about how her job makes it impossible to have the kind of relationship he wants, and then he turned out to be kindred spirits with the psychopathic abuser in wishing he could control and manipulate her. The one good thing he did was spare her having to make the "You know what? It is you" speech by making it himself.


I know a lot of people saw absolutely no difference between pre-London Chris and post-London Chris, but I always did, and it's in the way he handles his Trouble. Before he leaves Haven, he hates his Trouble, despises using it even when it's clearly the best option and people are begging him, and is drawn to Audrey because she's the only person whose reactions to him are genuine. When he returns, things have clearly changed, and it's all in relation to his Trouble: now he's perfectly happy to exploit his Trouble when it suits him, and even wishes this extended to Audrey. Taking the absolute most generous view of this, his Trouble has finally got the better of him, as he always suspected it would. Generously again, I don't think he would like the person he's become: this is what he always dreaded, and why he clung to Audrey.

But she's right; it's not her job to be the guardian of his identity, and I think she realises that the foundation of the relationship was never rock-solid anyway. With knowledge beyond this episode, I'm not sure she fully realized what was going on with Nathan until he gave her the info on Lucy, but I do believe it was all over with Chris long before the events of "Lockdown."

Bye bye Chris and Evi, you were the worst love interests ever. I hope the writers have learned that the concept of love interests just doesn't work on this show. Not with Jess and not with these two. Definitely not with these two.


Wherever your interests or allegiances may lie, I'm not sure it's a good thing that a show could never make a love interest vaguely interesting or believable. No secondary or tertiary character is able to reach the depths of connection between the main characters. If that was always the intention behind characters like Chris and Evi, fine. But I kind of wish they could dream up least one halfway-decent supporting character who could have some intimacy with a main character. They probably feel they achieved that with Jess, but she was in less episodes than either Chris or Evi, and anything that was achieved was completely wrecked by the manner of her leaving. Like I said, if this was the intention ... fine, I guess. At least we have decent non-romantic supporting characters like Dwight and the Teagues. With only thirteen episodes a seaso I guess you can't be picky.
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#2897

Shanna Marie

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Posted Apr 15, 2012 @ 4:40 PM

No secondary or tertiary character is able to reach the depths of connection between the main characters. If that was always the intention behind characters like Chris and Evi, fine.


I think that kind of was the intention behind Jess and Chris. Evi is another situation that I'll get to. But with Jess and Chris, I think those arcs were mostly about how difficult it is for both Audrey and Nathan to have relationships, both because of who they are and because of the situation they're in. With Jess, the midstream change of plans from killing her to having her leave changed the reason it's difficult for Nathan to have a relationship, and, oddly, her survival actually resulted in a more tragic story for him. If she'd died, the message for him would have been that his life is too dangerous to allow anyone he cares about to get involved with him and his world. Her leaving the way she did sent the message to him that he and his life were too freaky for even someone super open-minded to be able to accept. It just emphasized the feeling he already seemed to have that he's unlovable. I think Chris may have been part of Audrey figuring out who she is aside from the fake memories, perhaps someone the real Audrey might have been drawn to and she had to figure out if she actually did like him. Then there's her deciding that her mission is too all-consuming for her to allow herself to be sidetracked -- she doesn't get days off, and her role of Troubles Whisperer is going to cause problems in a relationship if that aspect of her becomes too important. The interesting thing about these outside relationships that didn't work was that they went the opposite direction of most outside relationships on TV. Usually, the outside relationships are the 'ship roadblocks -- the "oops, our main characters are getting too close to getting together and dissipating all the sexual tension, so we've got to throw in something to keep them apart" kind of thing. But these relationships served to bring Audrey and Nathan closer together in part by showing them how deep their bond is and in part by allowing them to see a different side of each other.

As for Duke and Evi, she seems to be about an overall pattern in his life. He started the series being mostly separate. He had some friends in town, but he kept to himself, didn't get involved in what was going on, and his relationships seemed to be of the one-night variety. Then Audrey showed up and forced him to get involved in things and forced him and Nathan to start speaking to each other again. Duke gradually became friends with Audrey and restored his friendship with Nathan, and then his estranged wife showed up and he reignited that relationship. Add that to his legitimate business that puts him in the middle of the community. The high point for him was probably just before the end of the previous episode. He's running his bar where the town has gathered, his wife is working alongside him, he's hanging out with his childhood friend and his new friend, and he's changed his outlook on life enough that he encouraged a teenage runaway to reconcile with his father. The discovery that Evi was working with the Rev started dismantling all that. He lost Evi, and soon he's going to lose both Audrey and Nathan in the coming episodes. Not all of it is his fault (like Evi's death or being framed for Audrey's abduction), but some of it is because of the way he reacts to things and because of the priorities he chooses. I guess Evi is also showing how difficult a relationship would be for him because she was his perfect match, only his perfect match is going to be someone he can never trust. Someone he could trust would be a bad match because then she probably wouldn't be able to deal with him.

Something interesting about Duke and Evi I noticed in this episode: he may talk about disliking Nathan, hating that he's a cop, and all that, but he ended up siding with Nathan against his wife. You'd think from the way Duke talks about Nathan that his response to learning that Evi screwed Nathan over would have been more "way to go!" than dragging her to the police station and handing her over to Nathan.

With knowledge beyond this episode, I'm not sure she fully realized what was going on with Nathan until he gave her the info on Lucy, but I do believe it was all over with Chris long before the events of "Lockdown."


I think perhaps the first hint may have come at the end of "Audrey Parker's Day Off," and then developed gradually until she finally acted on it after the info from Lucy (and after his admission that she's more than a partner to him). With Chris, I think she was still thinking it over while he was in London (or would have broken up with him before he left), then had decided to break up with him when he came back.
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#2898

bella1013

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Posted Apr 18, 2012 @ 1:06 PM

Twitter thingie

First day of shooting #Haven Season Three is TOMORROW! Can't believe it's here...


Just fyi.
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#2899

Shanna Marie

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Posted Apr 19, 2012 @ 4:10 PM

Yay! Season three is in progress!

The recap for "Who, What, Where, Wendigo" is up. I'll have to rewatch it to comment on it because I've been getting the rest of the season recapped in case I get busy again soon (very likely) and now the events and my thoughts are blurring on what happened in which episode.

A few more thoughts on "Lockdown," since I seem to have a brain on tape delay:

I know a lot of people saw absolutely no difference between pre-London Chris and post-London Chris, but I always did, and it's in the way he handles his Trouble.


That part is different, but the core personality issue remains the same. Chris thinks all other people are idiots, and so he wants them to either stay away from him or do what he wants them to do -- and NOW. He was like that pre-Trouble, and then his Trouble interfered with the "leave him alone" part. It was after London when he seemed to have started really using the Trouble to get them to do what he wanted, and then it seemed to have become his default way of dealing with everything -- just make everyone want to do exactly what he wanted them to do. Thus his frustration when Audrey didn't comply. But I think the problem with him all along was that assumption that all people were idiots so they needed to do what he wanted since he knew best. That's likely the reason Audrey didn't/couldn't explain things to him during the time loop -- he would have insisted on doing his thing because he knew best. And then the real problem in this episode was that he didn't trust her to take care of things and took matters into his own hands. Never mind that he'd seen her first-hand deal with two major Troubles cases and likely heard of others and knew she was a cop who used to be an FBI agent (I don't recall, did we ever see that she told him about the fake memories thing?) and that Nathan, an experienced cop and the son of a cop, trusted her absolutely.

Nathan's absolute trust is such a stark contrast with Chris. Not only does he trust her enough that when she comes to him with something outlandish like "I'm living this day over again," his response is "Okay, what do you need me to do?" but he trusts her competence. In this episode, once they figure out that it's a Trouble, he totally delegates that side of things to her while he deals with Evi, Duke and the gunmen outside. Even though as her partner and her superior officer he had every reason to ask for status reports, he just acted like he assumed she'd deal with it, unlike Chris, who went behind her back when he didn't like how she was handling it.

I don't know if they did this on purpose, but Nathan and Chris are dressed very similarly in this episode, both in dark pants and white shirts.

Speaking of Nathan, it occurred to me while rewatching that Nathan must be a very challenging role for an actor. The writers have joked about writing a scene and then cutting most of Nathan's lines. That leaves the actor to convey what would have been in those lines non-verbally, but then he can't resort to silent film star-style mugging, since Nathan is so stoic and reserved. I have to give Lucas Bryant credit for managing to say a lot with his eyes and only the slightest bit of body language. In particular, this shows up in the scene when Duke first shows up and they're talking in the hallway. Nathan doesn't say anything for a while, but the scene still has the rhythm of a conversation because he responds to what Duke's saying non-verbally. It shows up again in his scene with the new chief when the chief talks about shutting off communications. He's being quietly respectful while still projecting "What kind of raging idiot are you?" Sometimes I think it would be fun to try to recap an episode novel style and get into the characters' heads, and I bet Nathan thinks a lot of things that he never says, so he'd be fun to write that way.
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#2900

Spirit of 74

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Posted Apr 19, 2012 @ 5:20 PM

First day of shooting #Haven Season Three is TOMORROW! Can't believe it's here...



Great news, bella! I feel better just knowing that!

Sometimes I think it would be fun to try to recap an episode novel style and get into the characters' heads, and I bet Nathan thinks a lot of things that he never says, so he'd be fun to write that way.


I think it'd be kind of like when we could hear Oz's thoughts on Buffy. So, awesome.

It would be fun to have a recap like that (hint, hint). You know, if you get bored once the rewatch is over and before the new eps start(!)


Speaking of Nathan, it occurred to me while rewatching that Nathan must be a very challenging role for an actor. The writers have joked about writing a scene and then cutting most of Nathan's lines.


That might have been a joke, but I bet there's a certain amount of "hang on, Nathan wouldn't actually say that" going on in the editing room. And, as you say, it leaves the actor to convey an awful lot nonverbally.

I have to give Lucas Bryant credit for managing to say a lot with his eyes and only the slightest bit of body language. In particular, this shows up in the scene when Duke first shows up and they're talking in the hallway. Nathan doesn't say anything for a while, but the scene still has the rhythm of a conversation because he responds to what Duke's saying non-verbally.


I think that often, when there's a need for non-verbal communication, there's that pause before he speaks. It's very effective. It's a second or two of silence that says "there's so much I'm not saying here!". It's endearing as well as effective.

Nathan's absolute trust is such a stark contrast with Chris. Not only does he trust her enough that when she comes to him with something outlandish like "I'm living this day over again," his response is "Okay, what do you need me to do?" but he trusts her competence.


This is one reason why it's so nice to see a show I enjoy last this long (a rare occurrence these days!) because by the end of S2 it's getting to the point where this reaction is the only one that makes sense. They've been through too much together - I hope - for one of them to turn round and say "you crazy?" That's one of the main things I love about Haven. All the characters and their reactions feel natural and genuine, and I don't have to sit there rolling my eyes at the obvious contrivance.

I should probably amend that to "all the main characters, just to be on the safe side.

That part is different, but the core personality issue remains the same. Chris thinks all other people are idiots, and so he wants them to either stay away from him or do what he wants them to do -- and NOW. He was like that pre-Trouble, and then his Trouble interfered with the "leave him alone" part. It was after London when he seemed to have started really using the Trouble to get them to do what he wanted, and then it seemed to have become his default way of dealing with everything


To me, this is the big change. At heart he may be a superior, antisocial grump, but going from "leave me alone" to "do as I say" it a major transition. A willingness to capitalize on others' lack of free will is a big compromise in ethics, and understandably repulsive to a significant other. But I see what you're saying: with the ego issue behind it, there's no telling where this will end.

As I said previously, "Who, What, Where, Wendigo" is one of my favorite episodes, and I will try to rewatch and review sometime tomorrow. I recall that it felt weird after "Lockdown" to re-enter a "monster of the week" episode, but it's so much more than that.
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#2901

Shanna Marie

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Posted Apr 21, 2012 @ 12:31 PM

They've been through too much together - I hope - for one of them to turn round and say "you crazy?"


In the podcast for one of the early episodes, they said they wanted to make it clear from very early that there was no "Scully" in this show. Nathan initially didn't accept Audrey's "it's supernatural!" explanation not because he didn't believe it, since he knew very well what was likely going on, but because she was an outsider and he wasn't ready to admit to her that it was supernatural. Once he learned that she was open to the supernatural and that her response to the Troubled wasn't going to be "They're all freaks and must die!" he was right there with her. Given the way the Rev talks, it's understandable that he wouldn't want to admit any of the town's secrets until he knew where she stood. They do sometimes disagree as to whether or not something is Troubles-related, and they sometimes disagree on how to handle it, but they don't have set "skeptic" and "believer" roles, and when they disagree, it's based on evidence and experience and sometimes on emotion, not because they don't believe each other.

As for "Who, What, Where, Wendigo," I can't wait to get this one on Blu Ray because the cinematography is gorgeous with the shots of the forest and then those sunrise and sunset shots they use to show the passage of time. I particularly noticed the framing of that closing sequence, where they transition to each mini wrap-up scene by following Nathan's gaze, and there's this one shot where Nathan turns to stare at Audrey and she's staring back at him, then we see it from her perspective with Nathan in the background, and then when Duke approaches her he eclipses Nathan, but after she's told Duke off, she finds Nathan again and heads toward him. There's a lot of visual storytelling going on.

My one nitpick is that Nathan looks a bit too neat and clean on day two after they've spent the night in the forest. His hair is still perfect, his clothes are entirely unwrinkled, and he's clean-shaven. Everyone else was maybe a little rumpled to start with, so it doesn't show so much, and even Audrey looks a little mussed, but Nathan must have been carrying a razor, a comb and an iron in his backpack. I love Nathan's clean-cut, sharp, professional season two look (enough so that I hope they don't change him for the next season), but there's also something kind of sexy about a normally clean-cut guy who is a little scruffy and rumpled in appropriate circumstances, and these were appropriate circumstances. But that did make me think that shaving could be dangerous for Nathan. He could take off half his face without knowing it. He'd either need a really good mirror and a steady hand or an electric razor -- which makes his clean-shaven look the day after spending the night in the forest even more odd. This isn't a guy who can shave blindly with his pocket knife.

We get a bit of a role reversal about Duke here, with Audrey irate at his behavior and Nathan understanding and making excuses for him and even running into the woods after him when he's worried that Duke will get himself killed in the state of mind he's in. Nathan wasn't even all that angry about having a shotgun pointed at his face, shrugging it off to Audrey as bluffing -- maybe ... hopefully.

I'm curious about what happened to Dwight's daughter. Did she inherit his affliction? And what about Mrs. Dwight? Dwight's intriguing because we only know tiny bits about him, but those bits add up to a lot of mysteries.

Then there's perhaps the first instance we've had of a Troubled family that told their kids what might happen to them, so they had a contingency plan, knew what to do, had developed coping strategies, and knew who to trust -- and it's interesting that Nathan was on their trust list.

It would be fun to have a recap like that (hint, hint). You know, if you get bored once the rewatch is over and before the new eps start(!)


We'll see. I was trying it as a mental exercise and I found I couldn't get into Nathan's head. I keep doing everything from Audrey's point of view, and then I figured out why. Nathan and Audrey are very, very similar to the main characters in the series I write -- right down to the Audrey character's immunity to the story's supernatural element (and I had it long before this series). One of the reasons I got into Haven was that it was like watching alt universe fan fiction for my books, in which my characters became small-town cops in Maine. But these books are written in first-person from the perspective of the "Audrey" character, which means I've never gone into the head of my "Nathan" character. But it would be impossible to write these episodes from just one perspective. The other difficulty is that because the characters are so close -- but not identical -- there's a danger of bleeding over. So if the proposal for the next book gets approved and I have to write it, I'd need to write it before I could let myself play with the Haven characters that way, but then it might be difficult to write the Haven characters as they really are and not as their counterparts from my universe.
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#2902

bella1013

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Posted Apr 22, 2012 @ 10:13 AM

I re-watched Butterfly yesterday. I'll do WWW later on.

They won't tell Audrey about the Troubles. She doesn't find out until that very last scene on the bench. I'd never noticed that before. Everyone (even Nathan) is being secretive or dismissive of it, not even if their evidence (ie the Troubles Whisperer) has just shown up. Shows how ingrained the Troubles must have been, and how long they'd been living in denial.
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#2903

Shanna Marie

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Posted Apr 23, 2012 @ 1:59 PM

They won't tell Audrey about the Troubles. She doesn't find out until that very last scene on the bench. I'd never noticed that before. Everyone (even Nathan) is being secretive or dismissive of it, not even if their evidence (ie the Troubles Whisperer) has just shown up. Shows how ingrained the Troubles must have been, and how long they'd been living in denial.


Maybe not so much denial as caution. The Chief, Vince, and Dave, who know she's the Troubles Whisperer, seem to be taking the approach of letting her figure it out for herself. If they'd greeted her with, "Hey, you're back! Good to see you. You don't remember us, but you worked with us 27 years ago to help people with supernatural afflictions," she'd have probably fled from the crazy people. Even if the Chief had acknowledged the supernatural on that first case, if when they met at the crime scene he'd said, "Looks like maybe someone has a weather affliction that could have blown him over the cliff. We need to find out who he might have angered," she would have thought he was nuts. With her figuring it out for herself over their denial and objections, she was more likely to believe it and embrace it.

With Nathan, I think it was mostly a trust issue. He feels like a freak and has been treated like he's a freak or like he's cursed. He lives in a town full of freaks. He's not going to tell an outsider what's going on until he's more sure of her. He tells her what he knows once he realizes that she's open-minded and sympathetic and that her tendency is to try to help people with these afflictions.

I also wonder how much of letting Nathan be the one to tell her was part of the Chief's plan to get them working as partners the way he worked with Lucy. He'd have to know that Nathan would feel obligated to offer full disclosure once Audrey got offered the job in town, and if he's the one to tell her, that establishes a sense of trust between them. Plus, since they've kept Nathan out of the loop, Nathan can tell her everything he knows without her learning too much up front, and it maintains the trust between them because he's the one person who hasn't lied to her.
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#2904

Spirit of 74

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Posted Apr 23, 2012 @ 1:59 PM

Nathan initially didn't accept Audrey's "it's supernatural!" explanation not because he didn't believe it, since he knew very well what was likely going on, but because she was an outsider and he wasn't ready to admit to her that it was supernatural. Once he learned that she was open to the supernatural and that her response to the Troubled wasn't going to be "They're all freaks and must die!" he was right there with her. Given the way the Rev talks, it's understandable that he wouldn't want to admit any of the town's secrets until he knew where she stood.


They won't tell Audrey about the Troubles. She doesn't find out until that very last scene on the bench. I'd never noticed that before. Everyone (even Nathan) is being secretive or dismissive of it, not even if their evidence (ie the Troubles Whisperer) has just shown up. Shows how ingrained the Troubles must have been, and how long they'd been living in denial.


Until quite recently, they've hardly spoken of it even among themselves, people with history in the town. It's half guarded ("someone might hear!") and half superstitious (talking about it makes it real). But, yeah, they definitely weren't going to let Audrey in on the secret until they knew where she stood. It made more sense for Nathan, who didn't know her history, than it did for those who'd been helped by Lucy or Sarah.

I'm curious about what happened to Dwight's daughter. Did she inherit his affliction? And what about Mrs. Dwight? Dwight's intriguing because we only know tiny bits about him, but those bits add up to a lot of mysteries.


I hope they're going to keep exploring this. They've (finally!) got a character outside the main trio, of the same or similar generation, who's interesting and sympathetic. I'd like to see them keep building this for a while. It's difficult to imagine the daughter's death wouldn't be connected to the family Trouble.

We'll see. I was trying it as a mental exercise and I found I couldn't get into Nathan's head.


Don't worry, I was mostly kidding, and complimenting your insight ;) Don't feel obligated!

Nathan and Audrey are very, very similar to the main characters in the series I write -- right down to the Audrey character's immunity to the story's supernatural element (and I had it long before this series). One of the reasons I got into Haven was that it was like watching alt universe fan fiction for my books, in which my characters became small-town cops in Maine. But these books are written in first-person from the perspective of the "Audrey" character, which means I've never gone into the head of my "Nathan" character.


Two things: first, I think I would find it easier to write from Nathan's perspective than Audrey's, although I'm not sure why. I guess Nathan at least knows who he is, whereas Audrey's understanding of this can shift on a daily basis.

Second: that must be weird, seeing characters so similar to your own creations in someone else's world. I found an old paperback in the town library a year or two back that was hugely similar to a story I wrote in college. Reading it was like having someone else in my head.

Also: I didn't notice this at all:

I love Nathan's clean-cut, sharp, professional season two look (enough so that I hope they don't change him for the next season), but there's also something kind of sexy about a normally clean-cut guy who is a little scruffy and rumpled in appropriate circumstances, and these were appropriate circumstances.


But on a shallow note, yes, I concur.
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#2905

bella1013

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Posted Apr 24, 2012 @ 1:09 PM

Season 3 is going to be totally bad ass.

Edited by bella1013, Apr 24, 2012 @ 1:26 PM.

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#2906

Spirit of 74

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Posted Apr 24, 2012 @ 2:59 PM

Okay, I'm officially excited. I'm lucky to see that - my laptop's usually allergic to Twitter-based stuff. Thanks, for sharing, bella.
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#2907

Shanna Marie

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Posted Apr 24, 2012 @ 4:12 PM

Good, it looks like they aren't changing Nathan's look dramatically this season. Not that this is my primary concern for the season, but hey, I'm taking what I can get right now. How many more months?

A few more thoughts about WWWW:
This episode is pretty much the opposite of the previous one. The previous one took place almost entirely within the police station. This one is entirely on location, with no use of the standing sets.

They did a nice fakeout at the beginning with the leering truck driver while the radio is reporting on the serial killer. He's even flossing his teeth while the radio announcer talks about the last victim being a dental hygienist. You just know he's the serial killer -- and then he goes to help chase the killer. If this had been an episode of House, he'd have been the one coughing or passing out, and then the other person would start spitting up blood.

I wonder what was really the cause of Audrey's sleepless nights. I wouldn't have thought she'd be that broken up by the breakup, since it seems like she was planning to initiate it. Maybe the lack of sleep was because of the "What was I thinking? Arrrrggghh!" factor. I was going to say that she was letting Nathan think it was about the breakup, but she did point out that there were plenty of other reasons. He was the one fixated on the breakup as the reason. And that led me to wonder if she told him the full story about what happened in the police station and the reasons behind the breakup.

I also find it interesting that Dave told Nathan he didn't want to know what Dwight was going to do with the wendigo girls. It wasn't as though it was anything awful or nasty that Nathan wouldn't want to be a party to. I guess they're still trying to protect him or keep him out of things or allow him to have plausible deniability.

Two things: first, I think I would find it easier to write from Nathan's perspective than Audrey's, although I'm not sure why. I guess Nathan at least knows who he is, whereas Audrey's understanding of this can shift on a daily basis.


I think that shifting perspective would make it interesting to write, where she'd be weighing everything between what she remembers and what she thinks she thinks about it now. She's also very verbal, so I'd imagine she thinks in words and sentences. I'm not sure how Nathan would think. Does he articulate thoughts in his head, or is he more feeling-based? I don't know what it's like in the head of a not very verbal person. I guess when he does trust someone and is talking about something that interests him, he does find the words and can express himself pretty well, so maybe it is a case where he thinks a lot, then edits it down to a few words to speak.

Second: that must be weird, seeing characters so similar to your own creations in someone else's world.


The characters are just different enough that it's not too weird, usually. In fact, I didn't notice the similarities until we learned that Audrey's superpower is that she's immune to the effect of other people's powers, and that made me go "hey, wait a second," and that's when I started noticing all the other parallels and realized there was a good reason I liked this series. It's the revelations and plot developments that mirror mine that really freak me out. There's a revelation about a major character in my series that I had planned as far back as 2003 and that I wrote about a year before a very similar revelation came out about the parallel character in Haven, and then there was a scene in the aftermath that was freakishly similar to my scene. The weird thing is, that book hadn't been published anywhere when that episode aired, though I had turned it in to my Japanese publisher already (so there's a paper trail to prove I didn't copy it). That book will be published in the US later this year, so people who don't know the writing timetable may think I'm the copier. I was just proofreading that book not too long after recapping that episode, and it really gave me that "get out of my head" feeling.
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#2908

Shanna Marie

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Posted Apr 27, 2012 @ 4:37 PM

The recap for "Business as Usual" is up. I'm going to rewatch before I comment much, but I will say that I'm really starting to wonder about Vince and Dave. I'm pretty sure they're the good guys, but they seem to be on totally opposite sides here. They can't both be right, and if they're opposite, can they both be good? Though I suppose they might be differing on the methods to use to achieve the same positive goal. It also seems like a role reversal, since usually Dave is Mr. "Let's stay out of it for our own good" while Vince is more active, and here, Vince seems to be trying to avoid trouble while Dave is stirring things up.

Also, when you rewatch, pay attention to Audrey's behavior after Nathan's initial "you're more than just a partner to me" confession. Just follow her eyes in the subsequent scenes.
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#2909

bella1013

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Posted Apr 28, 2012 @ 4:43 AM

"WTF, Nathan, you're telling me this now? Here?"

I only watch BaU for the kiss, I have no shame.
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#2910

Shanna Marie

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Posted Apr 30, 2012 @ 2:14 PM

"WTF, Nathan, you're telling me this now? Here?"


It's in the subsequent scenes where her reaction is interesting. Mostly, she keeps staring at him, like she's either trying to evaluate him or trying to figure out what she thinks about him.

I only watch BaU for the kiss, I have no shame.


That may be why I noticed so much stuff this time around, since I was forcing myself to look beyond the kiss.

For one thing, I'm trying to figure out all the Vince-Dave-Duke-Dwight stuff. Dave is normally Mr. "Let's not get involved," but here he seems to be trying to stir things up by pointing Duke toward the box of weapons and hosting the meeting. Vince accuses him of trying to start a war. But then what was Vince up to? I guess he's trying to keep the weapons out of Duke's hands by getting Dwight to steal the small silver box. Then Dwight says Vince should have told him what he was after, but he knew he was to steal a silver box, and since he knew the implication of Duke cutting him, he seems to know something about who/what Duke is. So what part was he unclear about that he thought Vince needed to tell him? Did he not know that the weapons were in a silver box? I also found it interesting how both Vince and Dwight didn't seem all that happy that Nathan showed up for the meeting. I can see Vince wanting to protect him and keep him out of it, but Dwight was the one who told him about it. I suppose maybe their unhappy reactions were more related to what had happened with Duke -- and perhaps the fact that it was going to complicate things for Nathan.

As for Duke, they established at the beginning of the season that he's not the firstborn son. So, why is he his father's heir? Where are his brothers, and why didn't his dad have them carry on his legacy?

Although I'm leaning toward the idea that Audrey's abduction in the finale was a set-up to get Nathan into a confrontation with Duke, I remember why I got the idea that she'd have her memory wiped. In the same conversation where the real Lucy tells her about people coming after her to erase her, Lucy tells her that Haven Lucy said she knew how the Troubles started and how to stop them for good. It doesn't sound like Audrey has yet told anyone about this, and it's pretty much a Rule of Television that if you learn something important and don't immediately tell anyone, something will happen to make sure the information is lost. In the next episode, it doesn't seem like she's talked to Nathan at all between the time she kissed him and the time she shows up at the crime scene, and she says she'll tell him the next night over dinner, but you'd think if she'd just learned how to end the Troubles, she'd have been on the phone with him as she went from Lucy's house to her car, and then she'd have left it on both his and her office voice mail, and maybe stopped along the way to write it down and mail it to the police station. Since she didn't, now I worry that her memory will be erased before she tells anyone.

Come to think of it, she's possibly learned what caused the Troubles and how to stop them for good, and yet her first priority is finding out about Duke's father, since she learned he came looking for her, and then her second priority is to yell at Dave for not telling her he knew her even before she was Lucy. Unless those things are related to how to end the Troubles, I feel like her priorities may be a little out of order.

Okay, tangentially related to the kiss: There's no mention of there yet being a new police chief (and you'd think if the Rev-affiliated selectmen had hired one, the jerk anti-Troubled lawyer would have threatened to report Audrey to the chief), so it seems like Nathan is back in charge, even if he doesn't have the interim chief title. So when he's telling Audrey that she could get suspended, fired or arrested, what's left unsaid is that he'd have to be the one to do it. So, I don't think his "you're not just a partner to me" confession is too out of place. It was a desperation move to force her to see that her behavior really was affecting him. He wouldn't be okay if he had to suspend, fire or arrest her, but I do think he would do it if he thought it was the right thing to do.

And now for something completely different: I know it's supposed to be sad and tragic, but the image of that mummy sitting on the lawnmower, wearing its sunhat and with earbuds in its ears, totally cracks me up. It's so deliciously absurd.
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