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Crowley: He's a Lover in League Against Satan


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#1

TWoP Tennison

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Posted May 6, 2010 @ 6:06 AM

With Crowley showing up in his third episode tonight, it seemed like a good time to give him his own thread.

#2

sallybreeze

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Posted May 6, 2010 @ 11:40 AM

Ooh! Thank you.

I'm quite smitten by this character. He's mysterious and I am torn on whether he is to be trusted or not. (The way Ruby should have been written, Show). He's fabulously posh. His hell hound's bigger. And the poor thing, they burned down his house, ate his tailor, and what a day he had kicking in that demon nest. I hope we can keep him. But I'm guessing there's a greater chance of the sun going supernova before that would happen.
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#3

stoutheartedmin

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Posted May 6, 2010 @ 11:43 AM

Hurrah! And thanks. Crowley deserves his own thread.
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#4

kg1982

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Posted May 6, 2010 @ 1:01 PM

Hey... I love the fact that Crowley is out for himself is great. He knows that his position will be terminated if the Apocalypse happens (No matter who wins he's out of a job). Plus the fact that Sheppard is fabulous in the part.. Lovers in League against Satan indeed. :)
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#5

alex3

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Posted May 6, 2010 @ 4:08 PM

My BF asked a good question... if his vessel is from New York, why is he British? Sure, British people can move to New York, but why not just say London?

Conclusion: Crowley is faking the accent to look even more posh.

(and if 'the demon was british' is an explanation, why aren't most of the demons sporting medieval accents? Or speaking Hebrew or whatever? HMM? Ruby was alive 'when the plague was big' and she was amURican so, no, Crowley is so faking it.)


I also wanna say, Mark Sheppard is AMAZING and I love him. I like to think all his characters are the same character, in all the shows he's been on. First he was an evil insurance agent in Leverage, he saw how profitable Art Thief-ery can be and became one in White Collar. Then he made a deal to loan his body to a demon to escape prison in exchange for becoming rich/successful etc. Crowley rides the body for a while and then, hundreds of years later, drops it off into Firefly where the poor guy doesn't remember his real (or fake) name and decides to call himself Badger. His accent deteriorated a bit over time as well.

I've never seen BSG but I think he was in that... could be after Firefly, it's the future right?

My two Wild Mass Guessings don't work together, but I'm ok with that. Especially since in White Collar he was in New York, which is where Crowley said he picked him up, he just got the profession wrong.
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#6

banzaicherokee

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Posted May 6, 2010 @ 6:27 PM

He was also a bank robber in burn notice. Crowley got around before he got taken over.

Crowley = what Ruby should have been. I'd also like Crowley back he has the potential to make a good big bad for the final season assuming he makes it out of this one alive.
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#7

Confidenchel

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Posted May 7, 2010 @ 2:37 AM

I hope Crowley sticks around for next season, but I'm not necessarily sure I want him as the big bad villain. I really like how he is right now, being the untrustworthy yet grudgingly helpful ally. He brings a fun sense of humor to these dark and dramatic final episodes this season. "Aaaaaand, scene."
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#8

kg1982

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Posted May 7, 2010 @ 7:12 AM

Crowley is lifted from the book Good Omens... Name and all. I like him as a sort of untrustworthy ally, who gives the boys information when it benefits him, in order to save his pretty posh existence on Earth. He wants to keep selling people time shares in Hell while enjoying the good life on Earth. It would be interesting for Crowley to be around as the next Trickster/ Gabriel (although I enjoy the old one) sort of ally/ enemy. He'll go against the boys if they hurt his business and help them if it helps his interests. It would make sense for that to happen rather than him being the next Ruby. Ruby was clearly manipulating Sam to the point where he would free Lucifer and then say "yes" to him right down to sucking buckets of demon blood so that he wouldn't explode when Lucifer tried to inhabit him. She wasn't even sneaky about it.

(As a sidenote, in "Good Omens," Heaven really sucks just like on Supernatural).
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#9

stoutheartedmin

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Posted May 7, 2010 @ 8:40 AM

He was also a bank robber in burn notice. Crowley got around before he got taken over.


And don't forget his recurring role as Jim Sterling on "Leverage". Sterling may be my favorite Mark Sheppard role ever, because, as everyone who watches "Leverage" knows, Sterling never loses. :-)
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#10

Zif

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Posted May 7, 2010 @ 8:55 AM

It would be interesting for Crowley to be around as the next Trickster/ Gabriel (although I enjoy the old one) sort of ally/ enemy.


Although we haven't seen that much of Crowley, or of the Trickster/Gabriel, it occurs to me that they're written with a similar vibe and with a similar relation to the boys: charming, amoral, self-serving type with a flippant air who enjoys fucking with them. Since they've never been in an episode together, the similarities aren't readily apparent, but I think they're there nonetheless.

For my money, I'd take Crowley over the Trickster/Gabriel, since my enjoyment of the character is more pure: give me British-accented, fashionable, and nakedly untrustworthy over whiny and riddled with uncomfortable family analogies anyday (although I guess Crowley's indignant "They ATE my tailor!" could come off as whiny).

I was sort of puzzled by Bobby's gratefulness and joy at getting the use of his legs back. He does realize that Crowley only threw in that bonus to serve his own ends, doesn't he? Because it was kind of obvious from where I stood. Given all the "Crowley is actually God" speculation in the episode thread, though, it would be pretty awesome if Crowley did turn out to be God, since Bobby back in 5x02 crabbed at Castiel "When you find God, tell him to send legs!" and Crowley did send Bobby legs, after a fashion.

Edited by Zif, May 7, 2010 @ 9:00 AM.

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#11

mobiusklein

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Posted May 7, 2010 @ 2:23 PM

I got to say it's always puzzled me that Crowley is the only one who can see Lucifer for who he is among demonkind. I don't mind the number of demons being a very small minority but he being the only one with a brain?
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#12

Blackmantra53

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Posted May 7, 2010 @ 9:25 PM

I don't mind the number of demons being a very small minority but he being the only one with a brain?

My wank is that he's actually the leader of a splinter group of demons who actually did figure out they would be cannon fodder and decided to do something about it.
The things he can do and get are happening too smoothly and easily for him to be doing this all alone and I want him back next season as the same untrustworthy ally he is now. Assuming he's not God Himself of course.
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#13

mobiusklein

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Posted May 7, 2010 @ 9:27 PM

He probably is getting some help like Anna, who can't have escaped from the gulag and gotten a new body w/o help. I just wish I could get a bit more of a glimpse of who was helping either of them.
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#14

Thursdays Child

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Posted May 7, 2010 @ 9:42 PM

I'm highly suspicious of Crowley's behavior in Chicago. The initial offhanded comment about pizza wasn't coincidental, nor was the false start at the warehouse straight up misinformation. There was soooo much plotty plot plot going on in last night's episode, screen time was at a premium. Can't imagine that they'd leave that whole odd sequence in without a reason. (Then again it wouldn't be the first time that I've mistaken scattered writing for clues in this show. :\ ) Oh and the sickle. He had to know that Death could retrieve his own weapon back quite easily. The easiest explanation I can come up with is that he knew Death would just want to chat Dean up anyway, but why withhold that info?

His constant apparation and disapparation is a pleasing bit of continuity for me, since the CRDs are some of the few characters who do this routinely. I wonder why we haven't seen a red eye-flip, though?

eta: The Crowley-as-god theory was so preposterous that I forgot to mention it. No. Just, no.

Edited by Thursdays Child, May 7, 2010 @ 10:33 PM.

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#15

Eden Winchester

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Posted May 7, 2010 @ 10:12 PM

I've been hearing a lot of chatter going on other message boards; inferring that Crowley may be God. And at first I didn't give it too much thought but now I'm thinking that this could be mildly awesome. There is a lot of evidence, for instance; no eye-flipping, he's always able to source things so easily...without much effort and he's the only demon who isn't PRO-Lucifer.

In any case, I was just wondering what everyone here at the new Crowley thread has to say about it. Cause I'm really curious about what other people think; is this just wishful thinking or could there be really something here?

In any case, Mark Sheppard is god to me. He's Big Pimin' awesome-sauce.
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#16

mobiusklein

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Posted May 7, 2010 @ 10:20 PM

I guess I'm just having a weird time trying to imagine Lucifer pining for Crowley's love and approval.
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#17

ShantaD

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Posted May 7, 2010 @ 10:23 PM

I can't see where the idea that Crowley is God is coming from myself. I don't see any evidence. Why would God barter for Bobby's soul as insurance that the boys not kill him? Why would God be casually killing humans or hiding in a shack? Why would God even bother with all this rigamorole and phoniness to trap Lucifer? He could do it with a snap of his fingers or a whisper to Michael to change plans.

It also contradicts eveything Joshua said about God.

I think Crowley makes an awesome demon, out for himself and to save his own skin and not even pretending otherwise. He heals Bobby because it's in his best interests for Bobby to be able to walk and help in the fight. A useful ally the Team shouldn't trust but have to to an extent. As God, he would just suck even more than the angels. It would be utterly pointless for God to be playing games this way. While Crowley the demon is probably the best demon ever on the show IMO.
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#18

alex3

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Posted May 7, 2010 @ 11:02 PM

Why would God barter for Bobby's soul as insurance that the boys not kill him? Why would God be casually killing humans or hiding in a shack? Why would God even bother with all this rigamorole and phoniness to trap Lucifer? He could do it with a snap of his fingers or a whisper to Michael to change plans.


Isaiah 55:8-9 (King James Version)

8For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.

9For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.



ETA- I hope he's not God. I just imagine Kripke popping up and saying whatatwist!

Edited by alex3, May 7, 2010 @ 11:05 PM.

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#19

Demian

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Posted May 7, 2010 @ 11:13 PM

I've been hearing a lot of chatter going on other message boards; inferring that Crowley may be God.

It's an asinine idea.

#20

Zanne

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Posted May 7, 2010 @ 11:28 PM

Ruby was supposed to be a big surprise, so if Crowley is God, I'll applaud Kripke for not telegraphing the "shocking twist" so that astronauts could see it from space on a smoggy day.
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#21

Arctis Tor

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Posted May 8, 2010 @ 7:19 AM

I don't think Crowley is God. Brady seemed to recognize him and Castiel has since seen him without any unusual reaction. I'm sure God can be in whatever form He'd wish and appear that way to others, but it seems it would take too much time to explain why/how Crowley=God.

This might not be much better, but I might buy God recruited Crowley. Maybe promised him being top dog in Hell if he threw it in for Team God and helped dispatch Lucifer? Though God doesn't seem to be giving Crowley any pointers how to do that, anymore than he's been forthcoming with Dean, Sam or Cas, the Colt plan was obviously a bust.

The initial offhanded comment about pizza wasn't coincidental, nor was the false start at the warehouse straight up misinformation. There was soooo much plotty plot plot going on in last night's episode, screen time was at a premium. Can't imagine that they'd leave that whole odd sequence in without a reason.

Maybe God was in the warehouse? Though with all the Reapers congregating there, I'd presume it's a dying God in the warehouse. Death did mention he was going to reap God someday. Crowley either didn't know God was in there until he got a closer look or he did know and wanted Dean to be aware of the warehouse but not the reason why yet.
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#22

silent

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Posted May 8, 2010 @ 12:35 PM

I think Crowley as a character works so good especially in comparison to Ruby because a) Mark Sheppard is awesome and b) we're given a plausible motivation for his actions - something Ruby always lacked (she went from 'I remember how it is being human' to 'I luv Sam', neither of which was convincing and therefore made Sam look like an idiot for trusting her). Crowley is supposedly looking out for himself, the sensible thing to do. Yet he acts occasionally shifty enough to make you wonder if that's really all there is.
As for him being recruited by God - it's an interesting idea. If God wanted to organize some help for the Winchesters choosing a demon is definitely thinking out of the box. Pretty meh about him being God, I like it that they took God out of the equation (with some exceptions) and I prefer it to stay that way.
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#23

Bruinsfan

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Posted May 12, 2010 @ 3:32 PM

It would make sense for that to happen rather than him being the next Ruby.

I'd make a comment about him being the next Bela instead, if there weren't so many similarities as to make me suspect that he might in fact be the previous Bela.
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#24

Blackmantra53

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Posted May 13, 2010 @ 9:05 AM

I'd make a comment about him being the next Bela instead, if there weren't so many similarities as to make me suspect that he might in fact be the previous Bela.

He's what I'd hoped Bela would be.
As for Crowley, I spoke to another fan in RL yesterday who also thinks he's more than he seems, be it high-ranking angel or demon or even God Himself.
Joshua did say He was on earth and Crowley's as good a fit as anyone else we've seen.
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#25

stoutheartedmin

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Posted May 16, 2010 @ 4:51 PM

I only wish Crowley could have been God, instead of Chuck. He certainly would have been a less distasteful choice.
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#26

IgnaMom

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Posted May 19, 2010 @ 6:25 PM

if his vessel is from New York, why is he British? Sure, British people can move to New York, but why not just say London?


Mark Sheppard has lived in California for some 20 years or so, longer than he lived in London (he lived in Dublin Ireland between the two). So why not have Crowley living in NY? I am a huge Mark Sheppard Fan (as evidenced by this) and I've seen ALOT of his work and Crowley is definately one of my top five favorite characters (along with Romo Lampkin, Jim Sterling, Dr. Charles "The Butcher" Walker and Badger). I really hope we see more of Crowley next season.
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#27

CordeliaGray

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Posted Jun 15, 2010 @ 7:11 PM

This might not be much better, but I might buy God recruited Crowley. Maybe promised him being top dog in Hell if he threw it in for Team God and helped dispatch Lucifer?


I love that Crowley was working with/for Death, instead of God - how badass is that? And I'm hoping that he'll come back next year as boss of Hell - after all, they do have several vacancies in management positions! It would also be nice symmetry with Castiel taking over as the new sheriff in Heaven - the boys will have friends in both high and low places. Although I'm not sure how trustworthy he'll be now that they no longer have a common enemy...
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#28

Confidenchel

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Posted Oct 16, 2010 @ 11:20 PM

Crowley's Scottish! Awesome. I hope we get to see a lot more of him this season, I freaking love his character.
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#29

DigiKing

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Posted Oct 17, 2010 @ 8:32 PM

Cordelia, you're a smart lady.

Also, can I just say I am thrilled that he laughed off what was considered the initial plan with the whole "Oh you've got my son oh noes" thing? I was incredibly surprised at first that it seemed to be working, and then I realized that Bobby wouldn't be dumb enough to even try that.
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#30

NoWillToResist

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Posted Oct 18, 2010 @ 11:38 AM

Can Crowley be a regular? Or at least often recurring? Because my love for him knows no bounds.

Bobby: Do I look like Dr. Phil to you?
Crowley: A little.

Crowley: I'll save you the recap. In fact, I'll do the shorthand for you. [Imitating Bobby] I want my soul back, idjit. [As self] Afraid not. [Imitating Bobby] But I'm surly and have a beard. Gimme! [As self] Blah blah blah. Homespun cornpone insult. Witty retort from yours truly. The bottom line is, you get bupkis.

The "but I'm surly and have a beard" had me rolling on the couch.

I can't help but think that he respects Bobby way more now. Begrudgingly, naturally. :)

Edited by NoWillToResist, Oct 18, 2010 @ 11:40 AM.

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