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Chuck and Blair: Inevitable


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#2251

Snapshots

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Posted Oct 22, 2012 @ 6:02 PM

IMO, the timing just hasn't been right quite yet.


That's my problem though. When will the timing ever be "right"? I know this is Gossip Girl, a very poorly written and frankly, insulting television show, however even most other shows are smart enough to acknowledge that relationships just don't work like that. There is never any "right" time. There are always going to be obstacles, but when it comes to Chuck and Blair, the writers are failing to acknowdge that the biggest obstacles come when you're actually in the relationship trying to work together to overcome things. If CB finally get together at the end of the season, it's almost like the writers are setting the audience up to know that it would result in divorce within a year.

Chuck and Blair have had so many opportunities to be together but havn't. The most laughable one I found was in season 4 when Blair told Chuck she didnt want to be with him so she could better herself and become powerful on her own without him first. At the time I thought it was a great idea, but looking back I just have to laugh. Blair has not grown from this point at all. She's just as pathetic as the little girl we saw in season 3 who couldn't come to terms with the fact that highschool was over and she'd lost that status. I thought she grew a lot in the second half of season 4 with her arc at W, but that was pretty much undone by early season 5 when all she cared about was choosing between Chuck and Louis. So, what was the point? Yes she has a company now, but it was handed to her by her mother. She's not powerful at all. She never worked for anything. The Blair of season 1 would be mortified. She's no more powerful now than she was when she told Chuck they couldn't be together in season 4 for that very reason. So what's going to happen now? Are they going to keep putting a real relationship off so Blair can fulfill her own ambitions, or has she just given up on herself and only cares if it's in relation to Chuck? I think I'm going with the latter.

Also, it bears mentioning that CB were a solid couple in Season Three who dealt with numerous problems together before breaking up at the end of the season. They did not need to "go on a break whenever one of them had something they needed to deal with." 


Really? Because the first major issue I remember them facing it ended in a breakup because Chuck decided to pimp her out to save his hotel.

None of either Chuck or Blair's other romantic relationships lead to me to believe that they would be happy or fulfilled in them, therefore obviously not making it long-term. I don't think it matters what Dan says to Blair RE: supposedly loving her conditionally and wanted to be with her everyday because that doesn't change the fact that Blair never loved Dan. Blair was using her relationship with Dan as a distraction from her love for Chuck and desire to be with him, just like she did with Louis and the pact with God.


My point wasn't to do with Blair's feelings for Dan (or Nate). It was in response to your claim that similar obstacles would be thrown at either Dair or Nair. I was merely pointing out that while I believed they'd face obstacles (which they did), it didn't change the fact that both Dan and Nate jumped at the chance to be with Blair, while Chuck keeps stringing her along with excuses while they're not together. I also strongly disagree with your opinion that Blair never loved Dan (she told Eleanor she did in 5x24, and I personally don't think statements like "I told Chuck he didn't have my heart anymore, I realized it belonged with someone else" left much room for interpretation) however that's not really a discussion for this thread.

Edited by Snapshots, Oct 22, 2012 @ 6:05 PM.


#2252

Noname42

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Posted Oct 22, 2012 @ 6:16 PM

IMO, the timing just hasn't been right quite yet. We were introduced to Chuck and Blair as characters in high school and at the very root of Gossip Girl, I think the show is portraying the growth of this group of friends and how they navigate life while of course being a part of, "the scandalous lives of Manhattan's elite."


What growth though? Barely any of the characters have shown any growth, and IMO Chuck and Blair have shown absolutely none. Chuck's still in the same place he was in 1x18 when he put his Daddy drama over a relationship with Blair. And Blair, well, I think she's in a worse place now than she's ever been. I've never seen her more pathetic than she was in 6x02 and that includes the God pact. So what was the point of any of this? I found CB more believable as a long-term pairing in season 1 (when they were in highschool!) than I do now.

#2253

DevilRedeemed

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Posted Oct 23, 2012 @ 12:11 PM

That's my problem though. When will the timing ever be "right"? I know this is Gossip Girl, a very poorly written and frankly, insulting television show, however even most other shows are smart enough to acknowledge that relationships just don't work like that. There is never any "right" time. There are always going to be obstacles, but when it comes to Chuck and Blair, the writers are failing to acknowdge that the biggest obstacles come when you're actually in the relationship trying to work together to overcome things. If CB finally get together at the end of the season, it's almost like the writers are setting the audience up to know that it would result in divorce within a year.


That's one way to look at it. But, I don't think they would divorce in a year...or ever. IMO, since the obstacles keeping them apart are so ridiculous, I don't see it as the writers sending the message that they won't ever work. I see it as the writers sending a message that only insane, OTT obstacles can keep these two apart from each other. You know, like a pact with God. If Chuck and Blair had real problems, like Chuck was constantly cheating on her or Blair gambles away all of their money, then maybe I would view it differently. But, their most recent problems after breaking up in Season Three have been: wanting fulfilling careers, Blair being pregnant with another man's baby, and a pact with God. Once the career issue is sorted out, I don't expect there to be any issues that would result in divorce. I believe the showrunners even have said as much. But, in the off chance they did divorce, based on the history/pattern of the show, I'd expect them to be remarried within a year.

Really? Because the first major issue I remember them facing it ended in a breakup because Chuck decided to pimp her out to save his hotel.



That was definitely an issue, but prior to that, Chuck had frequent business deals that sometimes went awry and Blair was struggling with her friendship with Serena and and making a name for herself at NYU. And they were both extremely supportive and helpful to each other until midseason. Chuck mended Blair and Serena's friendship and Blair gave Chuck that photograph they were bidding against each other for to show that she believed in him.

My point wasn't to do with Blair's feelings for Dan (or Nate). It was in response to your claim that similar obstacles would be thrown at either Dair or Nair. I was merely pointing out that while I believed they'd face obstacles (which they did), it didn't change the fact that both Dan and Nate jumped at the chance to be with Blair, while Chuck keeps stringing her along with excuses while they're not together. I also strongly disagree with your opinion that Blair never loved Dan (she told Eleanor she did in 5x24, and I personally don't think statements like "I told Chuck he didn't have my heart anymore, I realized it belonged with someone else" left much room for interpretation) however that's not really a discussion for this thread.



I should clarify. I do think Blair loved Dan in some capacity (as Blair loves Serena), I just don't think she was ever in love with him. She never told him, "I love you" and none of Blair's actions during her relationship with Dan showed me that she was in love with him. Especially avoiding him to be with Chuck and encouraging him to go to Rome for the entire summer. And while I do agree that Dan (and maybe, Nate, but certainly not in Season One) jumped at the chance to be with Blair, does that matter if Blair didn't jump at the chance to be with them? I'll revise my earlier to sentence to: "I don't think it matters what Dan says to Blair RE: supposedly loving her unconditionally and wanting to be with her everyday because that doesn't change the fact that Blair wants to be with Chuck."

What growth though? Barely any of the characters have shown any growth, and IMO Chuck and Blair have shown absolutely none. Chuck's still in the same place he was in 1x18 when he put his Daddy drama over a relationship with Blair. And Blair, well, I think she's in a worse place now than she's ever been. I've never seen her more pathetic than she was in 6x02 and that includes the God pact. So what was the point of any of this? I found CB more believable as a long-term pairing in season 1 (when they were in highschool!) than I do now.


I disagree. I think Chuck has shown immense growth. I think that was the point of Season Five and also, I think the point of Chuck dealing with "daddy drama" this season will be to show how differently he handles it from before. He's already stopped caring about his father's approval and is instead trying to get Bass Industries back. Furthermore, prior to Season Five, when did Chuck Bass ever go to therapy or take care of a passed out Dan Humphrey or a dog? When given the opportunity to say something at Blair's wedding to Louis, he didn't. To me, that's growth.

As for Blair, I am the first to admit that her growth is painstakingly slow. I thought she was almost unrecognizable last season, but this season gives me so much hope for her. In 6.02, she realized that not everyone is scheming against her and she put on her big girl pants and solved the problem by the end of the episode. I think she's getting there. Also, deciding not to run away from her feelings for Chuck anymore in 5.24 showed a lot of growth to me as well.

#2254

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Posted Oct 23, 2012 @ 1:59 PM

I see it as the writers sending a message that only insane, OTT obstacles can keep these two apart from each other. You know, like a pact with God. If Chuck and Blair had real problems, like Chuck was constantly cheating on her or Blair gambles away all of their money, then maybe I would view it differently.


But everything on the show is OTT, so surely that renders OTT into average and normal. Look at Dan and Serena who broke up in the first season because Georgina was lying about her identity and manipulating Dan and just generally being batshit crazy. I'm not going to go into everything but by now we all know that some crazy shit has happened on the show from Serena "killing" a man to Bart Bass coming back from the dead. Everything that happens on the show is over the top; on this show their reality is OTT. So, it doesn't matter if in our real world terms Chair's obstacles are OTT because in the show world they're nothing different from any day to day drama that springs up, so I don't think you can get the inference that only OTT drama can break up/keep apart Chair, in show terms any normal drama can.

Plus, the nature of the drama isn't the most important issue at hand imo. Regardless of its nature, the drama tends to highlight flaws in the working of the couple. With the Dan/Serena drama in Season 1 it highlighted the pedestal Dan put Serena on. For me, the incessant Chair drama highlights the volatility of the relationship and it is volatile given Blair herself said he'd devastated her and made her feel happiest. That notion of highs and lows clearly shows a huge element of instability in the relationship. For that reason (amongst many others to be honest), I just don't see a long lasting future but each to their own I guess.

Edited by paupers, Oct 23, 2012 @ 2:01 PM.


#2255

DevilRedeemed

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Posted Oct 23, 2012 @ 2:33 PM

But everything on the show is OTT, so surely that renders OTT into average and normal. Look at Dan and Serena who broke up in the first season because Georgina was lying about her identity and manipulating Dan and just generally being batshit crazy. I'm not going to go into everything but by now we all know that some crazy shit has happened on the show from Serena "killing" a man to Bart Bass coming back from the dead. Everything that happens on the show is over the top; on this show their reality is OTT. So, it doesn't matter if in our real world terms Chair's obstacles are OTT because in the show world they're nothing different from any day to day drama that springs up, so I don't think you can get the inference that only OTT drama can break up/keep apart Chair, in show terms any normal drama can.

Plus, the nature of the drama isn't the most important issue at hand imo. Regardless of its nature, the drama tends to highlight flaws in the working of the couple. With the Dan/Serena drama in Season 1 it highlighted the pedestal Dan put Serena on. For me, the incessant Chair drama highlights the volatility of the relationship and it is volatile given Blair herself said he'd devastated her and made her feel happiest. That notion of highs and lows clearly shows a huge element of instability in the relationship. For that reason (amongst many others to be honest), I just don't see a long lasting future but each to their own I guess.


This response confuses me. First it's saying that since Gossip Girl is a TV show, it should be expected that everything is OTT and drama-esque. Yet, the drama between Chuck and Blair on a drama show makes them unrootable? That seems contradictory to me. If Chuck and Blair didn't have drama or something to play on the will they/won't they nature of their relationship, wouldn't the show be boring and not a dramatic teen soap at all?

Chuck and Blair don't seem volatile to me at all anymore. Sure, they were in earlier seasons, but all I see now is two people trying to fix their careers while being consistently supportive and nurturing to one another. Based on that, I see them having a very happy future together.

#2256

Snapshots

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Posted Oct 23, 2012 @ 6:29 PM

This response confuses me. First it's saying that since Gossip Girl is a TV show, it should be expected that everything is OTT and drama-esque. Yet, the drama between Chuck and Blair on a drama show makes them unrootable? That seems contradictory to me. 


I could be wrong, but I don't think that was the point paupers was trying to make. I think it was more along the lines that in general everything within the GG world is very OTT, so what we may perceive in real life as being OTT obstacles, are actually normal occurrences if you put them within the context of the GG world. So it really begs the question; are these obstacles that are apparently keeping CB apart OTT, or are they perfectly normal occurrences when you put them in the GG context and things that could continue to hit CB in the future? Things that they're going to have to learn to face together if they're any chance of lasting long-term.

IMO, since the obstacles keeping them apart are so ridiculous, I don't see it as the writers sending the message that they won't ever work. I see it as the writers sending a message that only insane, OTT obstacles can keep these two apart from each other. You know, like a pact with God. If Chuck and Blair had real problems, like Chuck was constantly cheating on her or Blair gambles away all of their money, then maybe I would view it differently.


I personally find the idea that the obstacles that are keeping CB apart are extenteral to be a complete myth. From where I stand, the only thing keeping Chuck and Blair apart is Chuck and Blair. IMO it's them who are actually creating these ridiculous and OTT obstacles for themselves. The pact with God was not an external thing. Blair admitted herself in 5x13 that she used it as an excuse not to be with Chuck. So while a pact with God may seem like an insane and completely OTT obstacle, at the core of it, it was Blair who created it. She created it because for whatever reason, she didn't want to be with Chuck. Whether that was because she was scared because he'd hurt her so many times, or because she believed deep down that they'd never really work in reality and she preferred to hold onto the epic love fantasy in her mind I don't know (Blair isn't allowed to have a POV apparently). However that doesn't change the fact that she created the obstacle herself not to be with him. She was in the clear. She's lost Louis' baby and they were yet to be married, she could have been with Chuck if she really wanted. And yet she fabricated some ridiculous pact not to be with him.

To me the God Pact was just one, giant, outlandish symptom of the underlying problem. The same thing we've been seeing Chuck and Blair do since they originally broke up. The only outside obstacle they really faced was when Blair couldn't meet Chuck at the Empire State Building because Dorota went into labor. Saying that though, the real issue was that Chuck slept with Jenny when Blair didn't show which was yet again a self-inflected obstacle and not something external.

I also disagree with some of your points re character growth and DB, but I might take them to a different thread.

#2257

DevilRedeemed

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Posted Oct 24, 2012 @ 12:43 PM

Blair admitted herself in 5x13 that she used it as an excuse not to be with Chuck. So while a pact with God may seem like an insane and completely OTT obstacle, at the core of it, it was Blair who created it. She created it because for whatever reason, she didn't want to be with Chuck.



I don't remember this happening at all. I'm still under the impression that the God pact/marrying Louis was to save Chuck's life as Blair did genuinely seem fearful that being with Chuck would harm him in some way.

Regardless, I think the only thing that matters is that Blair loves Chuck and Chuck loves Blair. They always find their way back. And I feel like the point of my original post was missed entirely. IMO, this is TV 101 and stalling techniques. They can't give Chuck and Blair their happily ever after until the very end. As Savage said, "We have to save the finish line for the finish line."

Anyway, I'm really enjoying Chuck and Blair this season. I think the writers are doing a great job of calling back to previous seasons and showcasing all of the sides of Chuck and Blair's relationship.

#2258

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Posted Oct 24, 2012 @ 1:27 PM

I could be wrong, but I don't think that was the point paupers was trying to make. I think it was more along the lines that in general everything within the GG world is very OTT, so what we may perceive in real life as being OTT obstacles, are actually normal occurrences if you put them within the context of the GG world. So it really begs the question; are these obstacles that are apparently keeping CB apart OTT, or are they perfectly normal occurrences when you put them in the GG context and things that could continue to hit CB in the future? Things that they're going to have to learn to face together if they're any chance of lasting long-term.

Yeah, this is what I was trying to get at but you've explained it better than me!

I'm still under the impression that the God pact/marrying Louis was to save Chuck's life as Blair did genuinely seem fearful that being with Chuck would harm him in some way.

Regardless, I think the only thing that matters is that Blair loves Chuck and Chuck loves Blair. They always find their way back. And I feel like the point of my original post was missed entirely. IMO, this is TV 101 and stalling techniques. They can't give Chuck and Blair their happily ever after until the very end. As Savage said, "We have to save the finish line for the finish line."

Well even if Blair didn't outright say it, surely there's subtext?

I know all of Chuck and Blair's obstacles are only stalling devices but it really does impact the integrity of the couple and moreover it's done in such an inorganic way. I don't think you can be as singular as saying the fact they love each other matters most above all, personally for me there's too much suffering along the way for the love to overshadow it all.

#2259

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Posted Oct 24, 2012 @ 4:13 PM

I don't remember this happening at all. I'm still under the impression that the God pact/marrying Louis was to save Chuck's life as Blair did genuinely seem fearful that being with Chuck would harm him in some way.


Before Blair marries Louis in 5x13 Chuck calls her on her crap about the pact, saying that it's ridiculous and she doesn't even believe it herself. Blair looks ashamed like she knows he's right, and then she says something like "that doesn't matter though, I'm still marrying Louis" (sorry I'm paraphrasing). So although she doesn't come out and say the exact words "I convinced myself of a pact with God as an excuse not to be with you", I personally thought her response to Chuck's accusation made it pretty clear.

I know all of Chuck and Blair's obstacles are only stalling devices but it really does impact the integrity of the couple and moreover it's done in such an inorganic way. I don't think you can be as singular as saying the fact they love each other matters most above all, personally for me there's too much suffering along the way for the love to overshadow it all.


Word! I'm not big on fanwanking, I personally prefer to go by what I see on screen rather than what I think the writers might be thinking off screen. And while the writers may have an off screen plan to keep CB apart until the end, to me the way they're doing it is hurting what I see of the couple onscreen. I can't just dismiss all of the ridiculous excuses they've used to stay apart or all of the imense pain they've caused one another and simply put it all down to the writers stalling their reunion. I can't see the point of supporting a pairing when all I see is misery on screen and I have to fanwank the reasons why myself.

#2260

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Posted Oct 25, 2012 @ 5:37 AM

No one said anything about Blair divorcing Chuck because she loves Dan so much, yes I like Dair but I don't want Chair to not happen because I would rather Dair happen. I don't want a Chair endgame because I simply disagree with the couple, Blair can end up with Nate if need be or alone but I just don't think it should be Chuck. And there's more than one way to read the narrative, the whole point of artistic mediums such as film, tv, literature is that the whole thing is subjective. There might be evidence to justify a Chair endgame but evidence can also be found to justify against it. For the record I've watched every Gossip Girl episode in full bar the most recent one due to time differences.

Yes, there's been suffering along the way, but suffering exists for every pairing on this show, romantic or not. Their past shouldn't have any bearing on their future, especially when it's been established that the same mistakes won't be made again.

But doesn't the magnitude of the suffering matter? Aren't some things just beyond justification though? You say the same mistakes won't be made but then consider Chuck's words in the finale like "You have me""It's not enough" "I don't want to be Mr Blair Waldorf". Things like that leave a bad taste in my mouth, for me personally I struggle to comprehend how you can love someone so much and then come out with such horrible words. Does it not on some level - perhaps just a small one but it's still there - suggest that that sentiment of Blair not being enough for Chuck really ring true. I'm not saying this is absolute or even that strong an interpretation but you could interpret what is happening now with taking down Bart as an indication that even now, his business, him empire is so important that in consequence he's denying the relationship with Blair.

She was afraid to devote her heart and soul to him until she realized that taking risks is necessary when you are truly in love with someone.

Blair also figured out that loving Chuck was no longer as risky because of how much he had matured.

Here's the thing, Blair's never had problems being open about her love, look at season 2 when she was the first to come out and bear her heart out. This notion of Blair being afraid to take risks was introduced in later seasons, near the end of season 3 I think after the hotel trading and Blair had every right and sense to be afraid to devote herself to Chuck again. I don't think it's that clear cut that Blair simply afraid to devoting her heart, last year she said:

"Somehow between getting traded for a hotel and selling out for a tiara, I love my true self."

I think part of Blair's conflict to be with Chuck shows us that she doesn't necessarily likes who she becomes with him or the darkness it can bring.

But going back to what I said before, ultimately for me it's the very magnitude of the devastation that Blair has experienced with Chuck that tells me she shouldn't be with him. It's not worth it imo, nothing's worth feeling as shit as Blair has felt in the past because of Chuck. And I can't imagine being with someone and having something as big as the hotel, or even the dowry incident (which I know can be perceived as a positive act) hanging over us. It's a ticking time bomb because even though Chuck and Blair had their apology scene last year, look how the hotel incident still crops up. Now imagine if they have a fight in the future, and it gets heated and then at any point all that shit will come out and it will blow up in their faces and it will be catastrophic. And it is inevitable there will be some fights, that would be true for Dair or Nair or Derena or any couple in real life or show but given Chair's track record, I just see those fights being so much more fatal.

Edited by paupers, Oct 25, 2012 @ 5:39 AM.


#2261

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Posted Oct 25, 2012 @ 11:09 AM

It's a ticking time bomb because even though Chuck and Blair had their apology scene last year, look how the hotel incident still crops up.

The only ones who keep bringing it up are Dan, who's obviously bitter, and Bart at the end of last season when he was trying to ~test Chuck's commitment to Bass Industries or whatever. When Chuck and Blair have fought in the past, she's almost never referenced that incident, except for during the immediate aftermath in season 3. Even by season 4, she cared way more about the fact that he slept with Jenny, and so I just can't see the IP returning as a real problem for them now, almost 3 years later, when every single sign is that Blair has moved past it. Yeah, she mentioned it in that quote cited above, but the point was that Blair had lost herself, and lo and behold she "found" herself in the very next (?) episode when she started scheming with Chuck again, This is surely not something people could get over in real life, but then again Gossip Girl hardly reflects reality in any way whatsoever. My impression was that whole point of Blair's line in the finale to Eleanor about her love for Chuck was to establish that she has reconciled her feelings about the problems they faced in the past and is ready to move forward. And nothing I've seen this season has changed my minds about that.

#2262

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Posted Oct 25, 2012 @ 3:16 PM

The only ones who keep bringing it up are Dan, who's obviously bitter, and Bart...


Blair in 5x21 (I.e. just 6 episodes ago): "somewhere between being traded for a hotel and selling out for a tiara I lost my true self".

It's obviously still on her mind and bothering her. And so it should to be honest, that's not something you just "get over". I don't think it's silly at all to think that if Blair ever learns to stand up for herself against Chuck (very unlikely) that the IP (among a lot of other things) would pop up in a fight.

Edited by Snapshots, Oct 25, 2012 @ 3:17 PM.


#2263

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Posted Jan 7, 2013 @ 3:48 AM

So we finally got them married... and saw them still happily together after 5 years together with a gorgeous baby boy. IMO, Blair and Chuck looked blissful in the flash forward. I'm definitely pleased.