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5-5: "Flesh And Stone" 2010.05.01 (recap)


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#1

darkestboy

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Posted May 1, 2010 @ 7:08 AM

UK paced thread for the latest episode as the Doctor, Amy and River continue their fight against the Weeping Angels.

Edited by TWoP Mars, Aug 1, 2010 @ 11:15 AM.

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#2

BluWacky

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Posted May 1, 2010 @ 1:13 PM

Eeeeheeheeeeheee. I suppose I should hate the way this episode ended, but eeeeeeheeeeheeee... and all before the watershed, too! I think it's offset by the way the show looks to be going to treat it from the preview, but still...

A good follow-up to last week in general, really, with some tantalising hints of what's to come.
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#3

bitchbully

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Posted May 1, 2010 @ 1:16 PM

deleting..coz i accidently double posted

Edited by bitchbully, May 1, 2010 @ 1:20 PM.

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#4

Ransom

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Posted May 1, 2010 @ 1:16 PM

Blimey, whatever happened to subtext. Attagirl, Amy.

Anyways, excellent episode- Amy blind and alone in the forest was seriously creepy, as was the Evil Crack erasing people from time. Almost let me ignore the fact that pretty much the entire story took place in three rooms and one corridor- and two of those rooms were identical. The River mystery stuff also seemed rather clumsy future plot-teasing, but then that seems to be her raison d'etre, so whatever.

Matt Smith was v.good- his sweet conversation with Amy before he leaves her in the forest, saying goodbye to the Bishop, getting angry with River and flailing about Amy's bedroom were all great little setpieces.
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#5

bitchbully

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Posted May 1, 2010 @ 1:16 PM

omg that was incredibly scary! The end scenes in the ship with the angels being sucked remind me of the daleks and the cybermen in doomsday.
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#6

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Posted May 1, 2010 @ 1:16 PM

Ha. I'm actually really glad they're not going to draw out a will they-won't they thing and that the doctor was basically like "arghh no!"
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#7

andymacdaddy

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Posted May 1, 2010 @ 1:27 PM

I liked it. Seriously creepy angels and the countdown was good. I liked Angel Bob throughout although I was confused by the bit with Amy not looking at the angels, I thought the whole point was that they can move fast and do whatever as long as no one is looking at them. So for instance if they were in a room with a blind person they could do what they want. I don't get that it was instinctive, otherwise whats the point of the don't blink bit.

Based on River's news about killing a good man, I suspect (no spoilers) that it will be an adventure where there is some charismatic and popular leader who is actually evil, that the doctor has to overthrow without bringing down society or whatever, and that River will take the blame for it. Or perhaps she will actually be the one to kill the bad guy, but for whatever reason they can't admit he was bad.
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#8

BluWacky

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Posted May 1, 2010 @ 1:38 PM

I liked it. Seriously creepy angels and the countdown was good. I liked Angel Bob throughout although I was confused by the bit with Amy not looking at the angels, I thought the whole point was that they can move fast and do whatever as long as no one is looking at them. So for instance if they were in a room with a blind person they could do what they want. I don't get that it was instinctive, otherwise whats the point of the don't blink bit.


It's not normally instinctive. The Angels were frightened out of their minds by the time crack; they weren't being rational, hence why they were fooled by the Doctor at the last instant - they died through their own stupidity. Because they were so scared, they just assumed that Amy was looking at them - until they worked out that she couldn't really see, because she started babbling at the handset and groping around for it.
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#9

bitchbully

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Posted May 1, 2010 @ 1:40 PM

when Riversong said she killed a very good man, the best she knew, I was guessing she was refering to the doctor.
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#10

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Posted May 1, 2010 @ 1:42 PM

when Riversong said she killed a very good man, the best she knew, I was guessing she was refering to the doctor.


This definitely seemed what they were hinting at.
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#11

Booster

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Posted May 1, 2010 @ 1:58 PM

20.06.2010. That's right around the airdate for episode 12. Interesting....

And seriously, just when the Angels couldn't get any creepier, we get to watch them actually moving. Damn you, Moffat!

Edit: Unless it was 26/06/2010, I misread it, and that would be the actual airdate for episode 13. Which, knowing Moffat, would fit.

Edited by Booster, May 1, 2010 @ 2:02 PM.

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#12

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Posted May 1, 2010 @ 1:59 PM

For the first time perhaps this season I had a moment where I felt actually engaged rather than just watching and that was Octavian's death. That scene meant something, which is what I have thus far found lacking. I also liked some of the lines the Doctor had about time and quite liked the Angel Bob stuff. Visually I liked it a lot again, - well the forest anyway.

I thought it got off to a meandering start. But then in the middle of the episode there seemed still a fair bit of promise only for it to fall away, not helped by how much repetition there was in what Amy said, the fact that there now seems no rhyme nor reason to the way the Angels act, and the most interesting stuff is being saved up for the future. I love AK in the role of River Song, but, her ending aside, I found her more compelling as a character in the library arc and the writing of her as a character now seems somewhat disconnected from the woman we first met.

It was enough to keep me watching, but I remain disappointed and wanting it to be a lot better than it is. This was also near rock bottom for me with Amy as a character, which the last scene only made worse. I don't need at all to like her but I do need to find her interesting and believe in her as an actual person rather than a collection of wide-eyed remarks.
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#13

SunlessNick

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Posted May 1, 2010 @ 2:14 PM

And lo, the people of the land did tremble, and their bladders did no longer obey.

Just as scary as before.

Because they were so scared, they just assumed that Amy was looking at them - until they worked out that she couldn't really see, because she started babbling at the handset and groping around for it.

To put it another way, she had the warning of their presence - the handset beeping - and they mistook it for her seeing them. When she couldn't find the handset, they realised that sensing their presence didn't let her sense their position. The best part about that scene was that I think it was the one and only circumstance where they could show the Angels moving without breaking the creep-factor of their stillness every other time.

Also, poor Amy. I think episode's the worst thing any of the companions have gone through (at least gone through and survived).

Blimey, whatever happened to subtext. Attagirl, Amy.

Yeah. I don't want to ship Eleven and Amy, but that worked for me because she didn't seem to be after a relationship (at least not with him), and because it seemed like an after effect of the trauma.

On the subject of that, did anyone get the impression that this is also not the first time River has met Amy? The way she acted and looked in the forest... I now wonder if her smugness was played up in the first part for the sake of that scene - while the Doctor was clueless about their relationship and history, it was fun to taunt him - but I think she'd met a more experienced future Amy, and now confronted by an Amy who was scared and hurt and vulnerable, it stopped being fun.

I was guessing she was refering to the doctor.

That's what I thought too; I wonder if the "time can be re-written bit" means the story will turn to that being rewritten.
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#14

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Posted May 1, 2010 @ 2:32 PM

On the subject of that, did anyone get the impression that this is also not the first time River has met Amy?


They pretty much confirmed it when she said she'll be around for the Pandorica opening (read: season finale). Wish she wasn't though, I can't stand Alex Kingston.
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#15

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Posted May 1, 2010 @ 3:49 PM

Karen Gillan and Matt Smith are amazing. That's what I've decided to take from this episode. Also, I appreciated that the Doctor in the TARDIS has finally caught up with the crack that's following them.

It was enough to keep me watching, but I remain disappointed and wanting it to be a lot better than it is. This was also near rock bottom for me with Amy as a character, which the last scene only made worse. I don't need at all to like her but I do need to find her interesting and believe in her as an actual person rather than a collection of wide-eyed remarks.


Effra summarized my thoughts brilliantly. Amy's characterization is driving me MAD.
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#16

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Posted May 1, 2010 @ 4:02 PM

When they were in the corridor and the Doctor said he'd have to turn out all the lights so as to open the door, surely one of the soldiers at least would have had a box of matches or a cigarette lighter so they could have made *some* light.

Plus all the telling Amy to keep her eyes shut, could no one give her something to use as a blindfold?

Still liked it though. Liked the way River was interacting with Amy - the arm around her when she had her eyes closed. (forget about Doctor/River or Doctor/Amy, let's have River/Amy all the way!)
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#17

darkestboy

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Posted May 1, 2010 @ 4:03 PM

I liked this one more than the previous episode. Very gripping stuff all around the place.

It sort of felt like the Weeping Angels were dispatched a little too quickly towards the end but I'm glad that we got a bit of a Doomsday homage in there with the Doctor, Amy and River holding on for dear life.

The crack isn't fixed, is it? Nope, and it has to have something to do with this Pandorica that both Prisoner Zero and now River have talked about. So, it's safe to assume that she'll be finale appearing as well.

River killed a man and that's what got her locked up. It looks obvious that it was the Doctor and if it was, I wonder what the circumstances were behind it. Assuming that it is him of course.

This Doctor can really do angry in a scary manner, can't he? Even when trying to help Amy, he couldn't help but get a little annoyed with her as well.

R.I.P. Father Octavian, I liked you.

26/06/2010 - Amy/Rory's wedding date and maybe when the Pandorica opens up as well. Has to be and the Doctor wanted to sort Amy out, though not in the way she would've preferred I bet.

The kiss scene was a mixture of being hot, funny and slightly wrong but it confirms that the Doctor doesn't harbour romantic feelings for Amy though and that's probably right for the circumstances, 9/10.
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#18

kionee

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Posted May 1, 2010 @ 4:05 PM

With all this universe splitting stuff, that final scene on the beach looked an awful lot like Bad Wolf Bay where Rose ended up. Maybe I am reading too much into it.
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#19

Radagast

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Posted May 1, 2010 @ 4:18 PM

that final scene on the beach looked an awful lot like Bad Wolf Bay where Rose ended up


Probably because they filmed it on the same beach...
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#20

NebulaB

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Posted May 1, 2010 @ 4:19 PM

With all this universe splitting stuff, that final scene on the beach looked an awful lot like Bad Wolf Bay where Rose ended up. Maybe I am reading too much into it.


They filmed it at the same beach as Bad Wolf Bay which might explain the similarity.
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#21

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Posted May 1, 2010 @ 4:56 PM

Having felt rather meh about the first episode, and loathing the next two, I think Moffat has finally hit his stride. We're finally getting mysteries and magic and not just cute!meets and Amy's miniskirts. I like that the big story is looking like Doctor-River, with Amy as the McGuffin. She's the person (or thing) who catalyzes everything else, but she is notnotnot the romantic lead. (Nor is River, since River is in love with a later, more mature Doctor, by which I mean more tested in Time Lord terms, not older in people years.)

Seeing and Remembering. This is the thread of the season. Incredible long series of riffs right through both episodes on seeing, blindness, eyes open, eyes closed, and on remembering, forgetting, and the whole power of memories.

And in two small ways, this episode redeemed aspects of The Beast Below:

1. The Beast Below had a world in which everyone's life was based on visiting a room once every 5 years to hit either a Remember button or a Forget button. As Ten would have said, a Great Big Threatening Button. People in the UK of the future can choose to remember or forget. And yet, there's a crack in the hull of the world, through which time is running out.

2. Queen Liz X asked: Did he do the Thing? And Jacob (quite rightly) was all over this line, dripping scorn upon it. So was I, at the time. But now, in Flesh and Stone we get this exchange:

Doctor: I'll rescue her! I'll do a thing!
River: What thing?
Doctor (defensive): A thing! Respect the thing! (from memory--not exact words, but very funny)
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#22

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Posted May 1, 2010 @ 5:00 PM

That was a decent episode. I like that the crack in the wall actually became part of the story instead of being buried in the background for another five episodes. Similarly, I'm glad Amy just decided to come out with the truth about her marriage and her crush on the Doctor. I'm all for putting this stuff on the table to be dealt with openly. (Unlike all the dancing around who River Song really is, and what she did, and all that stupid forced tension. "You don't want to know" always feels like "I'm the writer and I don't feel like telling you yet, so nyah nyah nyah.")

This ep had lots of nice and/or terrifying moments in it that I enjoyed. Amy's countdown. The death of the Bishop. The way the Doctor came back to comfort Amy when she was scared. The scene between the last soldier and Amy. Every time the Doctor told somebody to shut up. The whole bedroom scene at the end, especially how unimpressed the Doctor was with Rory as Amy's choice of spouse.

"Time can be rewritten." I would complain about this being an open invitation to retcon everything and anything in sight, but this is Doctor Who, and continuity is kind of a pipe dream anyway. I just hope Team Moffat doesn't abuse it.

Favorite quote: "I made him say 'comfy chairs.'"

Edited by Hyggerific, May 1, 2010 @ 5:15 PM.

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#23

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Posted May 1, 2010 @ 5:08 PM

I love how the Doctor was far more creeped out by Amyís advances than by the Weeping Angels. Although itís interesting to see how 11 has changed. 10 had no problem with snogging someone he met as a little girl after all. I didnít have a problem with it because Amy was obviously wanting to seize the day or something after a trying day and the Doctor recognised it would be inappropriate since he seems to see her as his little sister or niece or something.

Part of me was annoyed by the convenient time sucking void (I could use one of those for all the rubbish in my bedroom) and part of me was thinking hell yeah as the Angels got pulled away into time and space.

So I wonder if anything will come of these hints that River will marry the Doctor and then kill him. Assuming thatís what was being hinted at. Unless it isnít the Doctor she killed since he isnít technically a man but a Timelord. There seemed to be a get out clause at the end with that line about the possibility of rewriting time. I really hope the crack in time is something to do with 10ís last few episodes. It seems like the near return of Gallifrey and the Doctor subtly altering a fixed point in time should have some more long-term repercussions.

On the subject of that, did anyone get the impression that this is also not the first time River has met Amy?

Interesting point SunlessNick. River seemed fonder of Amy than you would expect on such a short acquaintance but who knows what it all means?

Father Octavian annoyed me a bit. It seems to me if he was Amy or the Doctor he would have hugged the Angel back or something and lived to fight another day. At least exhaust all the options first would be martyrs. The writer just disposed of him the second he became extraneous to the plot.

Edited by Beatriceblake, May 1, 2010 @ 7:23 PM.

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#24

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Posted May 1, 2010 @ 5:31 PM

Well, that was one part wonderful, two parts excellent, and two parts OMFG not AGAIN!

  • One Part Wonderful
  • Take something creepy, make it creepier, then creep it to the max!
    I thought Moffat had made the Weeping Angels just about as creepy as he could with Cortex-Bob last week but I underestimated the man. When the angels started moving while Amy was groping for the communicator made them even creepier. It was, I think, pretty much the only way that he could have shown this.
  • Two Parts of Excellence
  • There's a crack in the wall
    The Angels were, ultimately, undone by their fear of the crack in the walls of reality. I liked that the crack became part of the story this week instead of just a "tag-on" at the end of a story. And I can even forgive the fact that it seemed to have been shot on three sets and a (very familiar) beach given that this was a rollicking good episode with the exception of the last few moments.
    I really do think that this series might have hit its stride with these last two episodes - I'll reserve judgment but these two episodes felt like DW should feel. If the rest of the series comes up to this level I shall be one happy camper.
  • Excellent acting on the part of...
    Well, everybody really. Matt Smith proved he can do angry without excessive histrionics which is a refreshing change after DT's occasional overblown theatrics. Karen Gillan managed to seem to be actually there with the rest of the cast this week instead of the usual detached persona that is Amy Pond.
    I'm still not enthused by the character of River Song - much of what she says is exactly what Hyggerific points out - she's too obviously the mouthpiece for the writer who's going "nyah-nyah... I know a secret and I'm not telling". Don't get me wrong - Alex Kingston is a great actress, but the character just feels wrong somehow. (And I call red-herring on the person she killed being an incarnation of the Doctor).
  • Two Parts (very) Bitter
  • When Subtext looses its sub
    Well that happened fairly quickly in the series - Amy falls for the Doctor. And in a very unsubtle way too. It was quite amusing to see Eleven's reaction but...
    It seems to be a failing of New-Who that every companion has to fall for the Doctor - either in a quite Donna/Martha way or an overt Rose/Amy manner. Even Captain Jack fell for Ten - god knows what he'd do if he met Eleven! Do we really have to have this with every companion? While I don't want a return to the Liz Smith days, we need a companion who is not going to be swept of his/her feet by the Doctor otherwise it just becomes the same old same old all the time - just with different faces.
  • It's Doctor/Donna Take Two!
    And, talking of tired old plot lines, once again we have a companion around whom the whole Universe revolves. Let's have something different, something new... let's have a companion who isn't the mostest specialist thing evah! Just once, for a change
Next Week: Hopefully non-sparkly Vampires
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#25

SunlessNick

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Posted May 1, 2010 @ 5:49 PM

Well that happened fairly quickly in the series - Amy falls for the Doctor. And in a very unsubtle way too. It was quite amusing to see Eleven's reaction but...
It seems to be a failing of New-Who that every companion has to fall for the Doctor - either in a quite Donna/Martha way or an overt Rose/Amy manner.

I never got the sense that Donna fell for the Doctor - even if she wanted to spend the rest of her life traveling with him, it still felt like friendship and the traveling itself were what mattered.

I also don't think Amy has fallen for him per se - more like she wants to be close to someone, right then, because she'd been hurt. Still, I'll be happier if that's confirmed quickly.

Well, everybody really. Matt Smith proved he can do angry without excessive histrionics which is a refreshing change after DT's occasional overblown theatrics.

The part with the com, when Bob says the Angels are scaring Amy for fun, was particularly good (especially since his anger does actually have immediate consequence - the noise of the com smashing makes some of the soldiers look round, and some of the Angels get closer).
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#26

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Posted May 1, 2010 @ 6:15 PM

...Amy falls for the Doctor


Well, to be fair, she wasn't asking for a life with him, just a roll in the hay before she got married to Rory. One last harrah before settling down. While, I am sure Rory wouldn't be crazy about it, she still seemed like she was going to marry him in the morning and stop travelling with the Doctor. Versus Rose and Martha, who wanted to have a lasting relationship with him, travelling the stars. I kind of liked it when she put him in his place when he was saying since she was a human, there couldn't be anything lasting between them and she was like "Exactly! You understand!"

Ah, Sunless Nick beat me to it.

Edited by jennifda, May 1, 2010 @ 6:16 PM.

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#27

Markeer

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Posted May 1, 2010 @ 6:44 PM

Yeah, Sunless Nick has it right. We're NOT seeing the same thing over and over, quite the opposite. Rose and the Doctor were a real couple(ish), Martha explored unrequited love, Donna was just a friend and now we're getting yet another variation of a man and woman's relationship: physical attraction without any greater emotional attachment.

I think Override's underlying issue is that there should never be any romantic or sexual issue between the Doctor and his female companions, and since I grew up with the neutered relationships of the original series I can respect that, but in the new series men and women feel love and desire. After a certain point, just accept it or go mad.

And yes, I thought that interaction was a nice new spin: Looking for a last fling before marriage to the long-time fantasy man. I wonder how many women in history have given a thought to the intriguing-guy-that-never-happened on the night before their wedding? Well, Amy's showed up at the door...
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#28

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Posted May 1, 2010 @ 6:53 PM

I wouldn't say I was bricking myself, but definite nightmare fuel there. I was glad to see that the crack actually turned out to be significant this week - in fact, vital to solving the plot.

My favourite moment though was when Amy asked if she was dying and River (I think) replied "Of course!" but the Doctor replies "No, you're dying!" because personally I agree with the Doctor there. Just saying you'll be fine doesn't make you fine: I'd rather know the truth.

Not sure how I feel about Amy trying to jump the Doctor, though I'm glad she doesn't see him as her "twu wuv" so much as a convenient dick (which has got to be a first for the Doctor).
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#29

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Posted May 1, 2010 @ 6:53 PM

River was actually not as annoying in this episode. Though I suppose it's harder to be smug at someone when they're freaking out at you. And she was certainly concerned for Amy, which was nice.

Yay for progression on the Crack.

Holy fuck, I am officially Terrified of Angels now. Amy feeling her way through them and then dropping the communicator? I was literally yelling, "IT'S RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU! NO, TO THE LEFT! DAMMIT, PICK IT UP!! HURRY, THEY'RE COMING!!"

While I don't want the person River killed to end up the Doctor, I do want her to be (have been?) around for his final death. That way, they're both hiding the EXACT SAME SECRET from each other. ("I know how you die.")

I kinda hated the end scene, just because I really really wanted this Doctor and Companion to be completely brother/sister. There is such a nicely Protective!OlderBrother!Doctor thing going on, especially in this episode (when he gripped her head and kissed her forehead? LOVE). Judging from his reaction, the Doctor really DID think of Amy as a little sister (or at least, very much "Just Friends") because he seemed completely uncomfortable and horrified, and not just in the, "I don't like you like that, I'm gonna let you down easy," kind of way. It was more like a, "What the HELL are you doing?!" horror (it was funny, though, how Amy kept going for the braces. How many times did he pull them back up?)

Edited by TheSporkWielder, May 1, 2010 @ 6:56 PM.

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#30

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Posted May 1, 2010 @ 7:02 PM

Agreed that the hints are that River killed The Doctor.

I also think that River has met Amy "before", because as she is leaving, she makes a point of saying "See you, Amy."
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