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5-4: "The Time Of Angels" 2010.04.24 (recap)


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#1

darkestboy

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Posted Apr 24, 2010 @ 6:26 AM

As with previous episode threads, this one is UK based. Tonight folks, a double whammy of a certain important woman and malavolent statues.

Edited by TWoP Mars, Aug 1, 2010 @ 11:16 AM.


#2

sej aha

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Posted Apr 24, 2010 @ 12:27 PM

Mike Skinner from the streets eh? not at all who I would expect to see in Doctor Who! Do you think he might rap in a bit?

#3

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Posted Apr 24, 2010 @ 1:11 PM

Such a great episode - it flew by! And of course they go and make the angels even scarier (I got chills at the video recording and two-heads part.)

River annoyed me with 10, but I like her and 11's dynamic: I love that he's kind of annoyed by her. I also enjoy the hint that there's something dark or bad about her. I knew a lot of people had theorized that, but good to see it become canon.

#4

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Posted Apr 24, 2010 @ 1:13 PM

Best episode of the season so far. Interesting setups here with Amy turning into stone, River apparently a criminal and the religious aspect of whole thing with soldiers of the Church hunting angels with the Doctor right in the middle of it all.

I was wondering why they were going on about two-headed creatures when all the statues in the catacombs had one head. I was ready to call it out as a continuity error until it actually became a twist. Same with the fact that the decaying angels were moving slower.

Loved the Doctor/Amy exchange when her hand had turned to stone, "I don't need you to die for me. I'm not that clingy!" and "Do you have space teeth?!" were among the best lines.

Can't wait for next week.

Edited by Shattered Life, Apr 24, 2010 @ 1:17 PM.


#5

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Posted Apr 24, 2010 @ 1:19 PM

"Blinded by the Lights", indeed. Blimey, talk about least likely guest stars.

Anyway, I thought that was a great episode. Angels coming out of the TV, messing with your head, ripping out your cerebral cortex and using it as a mouthpiece; zombie angels chasing you down with their rotted faces, it's good to have a bit of terror back in Doctor Who.

River was the same as last time, occasionally irritatingly smug with her future knowledge and mad TARDIS skills, occasionally utterly awesome with her jumping out of a spaceship hijinks, and oddball relationship with the Doctor.

Hey, church militants who aren't evil! Is this a world first for scifi TV? River's murky past with them could be interesting.

Best moment- so the TARDIS noise is purely because the Doctor leaves the brakes on. Ha! The Doctor trying to mimic the noise was very funny.

Worst moment- The cliffhanger was a bit rubbish, possibly because that speech has been on every bloody trailer for months. Oh, and a big groan for the appearance of that tired old movie cliche "Black Guy Dies First".

Edited by Ransom, Apr 24, 2010 @ 1:20 PM.


#6

SofaSoGood

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Posted Apr 24, 2010 @ 1:29 PM

Mike Skinner from the streets eh? not at all who I would expect to see in Doctor Who! Do you think he might rap in a bit?

"Dry your eyes mate" would be perfect for a Weeping Angels episode.

So much better than last week, and the incidental music wasn't even up to 11 all the time either. Had no idea it was a two-parter beforehand, seemed to fly by. Lots to discuss in this one but will have to wait as Alex Kingston just kneed Matt Smith "in the knackers" on Confidential.

That bloody cartoon ident for Graham Norton popping up right across the screen in the climax of the episode was beyond tacky though. Licence fee cancelled etc.

Edited by SofaSoGood, Apr 24, 2010 @ 1:44 PM.


#7

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Posted Apr 24, 2010 @ 1:39 PM

The River Song isn't doing it for me. I don't think she's the wife though cause I thought the military priest asked her if the Doctor knows what she is and not who she is. The angels are so scary though!

#8

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Posted Apr 24, 2010 @ 1:42 PM

I know I have seen a good Doctor Who episode if I sit there grinning when it's ended. It was good, really good. And creepy and exciting... seriously, in that scene with that recording angel and Amy where the Doctor and River Song were just 'calmly' talking outside, I was (silently) screaming 'Doctor, turn around and go to Amy, go to Amy!!!!'. If I had been sitting at that moment, I probably would been sitting right at the edge of my seat. And the twist with the Angels... there are more than one, they are able to more than they expected... I loved it! Even though I probably look a bit wary to any statues I encounter the next couple of days I really like those creepy episodes. 

And yes, it really flew by fast. That really surprised, that happens way too few with the TV show I follow, if you ask me. I had also so much fun with the line 'I'm hunting statues', probably more than I should have. 

Is it next week yet? 

River annoyed me with 10, but I like her and 11's dynamic: I love that he's kind of annoyed by her. I also enjoy the hint that there's something dark or bad about her. I knew a lot of people had theorized that, but good to see it become canon.


I know what you mean. Before with Ten she mostly annoyed me, but here I wasn't, even though she was still acting the same. I just loved it that the Doctor was annoyed with her, that was just too much fun to watch.

Edited by Safrodite, Apr 24, 2010 @ 1:43 PM.


#9

SunlessNick

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Posted Apr 24, 2010 @ 1:52 PM

'Doctor, turn around and go to Amy, go to Amy!!!!'

I know what you mean. It was a recording, what the hell could it do, but the angels are all about perception, so...? And then the Doctor read out the part about how an image becomes the angel.

It makes me wonder about retinas.

And I wonder that that part was about our dreams not needing us any more. Did we dream them?


After this, I can't wait to see what they come up with for the season's scary two-parter.

Edited by SunlessNick, Apr 24, 2010 @ 1:59 PM.


#10

OverrideB1

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Posted Apr 24, 2010 @ 2:05 PM

Now that were a proper bit o' Doctor Who, eh just like when I were a lad. I know I keep harping on about Moffat's D" being more "old school" than RTD's and this episode - with a few irritating exceptions - was no different: took me right back to when I was a wee 8-year old peering at Two over the back of the couch.

So, what was there to like about tToA? Quite a lot really -
  • Whatever holds the image of an Angel, becomes an Angel I thought that this was really well done - the slowly dawning realisation on Amy's part that something is not right here™ with the looped recording of the Angel while Eleven and Song try to figure it out from the book.
    And, to be honest, Amy's solution didn't seem as out of place as her solutions in the last 2 episodes. Freezing frame on the static seems an eminently logical thing to do.
  • They're coming out of the walls! I loved the "oh crap" moment when it dawned on our merry adventurers that the statues should have all had 2 heads and that they were, in fact, all Weeping Angels. It seemed very reminiscent of that moment in Aliens when the Colonial Marines realise that the aliens are, in fact, all around them in the walls.
  • Lance-Bishop? Ohhh really? Ransom commented on the church-militants who aren't evil and it seems to me that this is pretty much a first. The idea of a church-controlled military got me to thinking about the ranks they might have. That's when the 'orrible 'orrible Lance-Bishop pun waved it's hand and said "hi".
    Because, if we take the idea that the Angels coming out of the walls was inspired (in part) by Aliens, it was Lance Henriksen who played the character Bishop. See, I told you it was a horrible pun!
  • Assorted cortex-ripping Now that's just plain nasty in a creepy sort of way. If Weeping Angels weren't spooky enough before, now they can use dead mens' brains to communicate with you!
  • Take the handbrake off! Absolutely loved Matt Smith's whimpy attempt to imitate the TARDIS' SFX and howled at the idea that the only reason it even makes that noise is that the Doctor keeps leaving the brake on.

I am sorry to say that I found River Song just as tedious in this episode as I found her in SitL and FotD: all the knowing smirks and winks, and being a better driver of the TARDIS than the Doctor. The whole condescending "my doctor is better than you'll ever be" attitude kind of sucks too. If we never see her again after next week it'll be too soon.

#11

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Posted Apr 24, 2010 @ 3:19 PM

Now I have something in my eye is creepy. Thanks a lot Moffat.

If the angels weren't scary enough before, we have rotted angels.

After last weeks ever fallen in love with someone you shouldn't I'm very glad to see there doesn't seem to be any jealousy on Amy's part about River. Also the doctor listening in while trying to appear busy was great.

#12

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Posted Apr 24, 2010 @ 3:24 PM

It seemed very reminiscent of that moment in Aliens when the Colonial Marines realise that the aliens are, in fact, all around them in the walls.

Because, if we take the idea that the Angels coming out of the walls was inspired (in part) by Aliens


Believe it or not, Moffat uses an analogy of Aliens vs Alien when comparing this story to Blink...

#13

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Posted Apr 24, 2010 @ 3:28 PM

Ack! Why did I not realize until the last minute that this was a two-parter! I was looking at the clock about 30 mins in and thinking that they'd have to wind it up pretty quickly and then they didn't, darn it!

#14

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Posted Apr 24, 2010 @ 3:33 PM

Am going to reserve judgement to see if there is any payoff is but so far it is significantly better than what we've had so far, not least because there is some narrative tautness. I liked some of the Doctor's lines and River Song, after a shaky start, has presence, but I am not sure we're in any further on in getting a characterisation of the Doctor. As for Amy, I am really struggling. She just seems either disengaged or smug in relation to the experiences she's having beyond her moments of fear in this episode. There's a moment near the beginning where the Doctor is saying something that has purchase and there's no sense that she's there being hit by that. Hope the idea of ideas existing independently of people conceiving goes somewhere next week and that it has something to say to whatever we might learn about River.

#15

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Posted Apr 24, 2010 @ 3:48 PM

Ohhh no, thanks Moffat, now I can never look at a statue again without dying of fright.

Actually killing someone, ripping out their brain and using it to talk to the Doctor? Just when I thought the angels couldn't get much scarier.
Although to be honest, I felt this was more in the tone of SitL/FotD, as I feel like those ones were a mix of scary things, a bit of humor and lots of action-adventure type stuff, while "Blink" was just terrifying for the entire time.

I liked Amy quite a bit here. First of all with her closing-of-one-eye-at-a-time method, which I'd always wondered why no one have thought of. And the pausing at the static was genius, I hadn't thought of that.

I'm very, very excited for next week. The promo looked fantastic.

Edited by Sapphie3, Apr 24, 2010 @ 3:48 PM.


#16

SofaSoGood

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Posted Apr 24, 2010 @ 4:01 PM

Seems I'm not alone in having a fit about the "Over the Rainbow" advert pissing all over the final scene. From Simon Pegg on Twitter/@ Twitter/ whatever:

(ironic) Congrats to the BBC for ruining the climax to Doctor Who with a cartoon Graham Norton telling about another f**king talent show.

Did anyone else have mixed feelings about the Angels talking, albeit in just about the creepiest way imaginable? I rather liked the fact that until now the Angels have been fittingly sphinx-like in their motivations. Plus the talking through the dead thing reminded me too much of the Vashna ...Vishnu ...oh bollocks, the shadow monsters from the Library one. I'm worried that if the Angels get too chatty they'll lose their mystique faster than you can say "Hey, who turned out the lights?" Loved the manky looking fallen angels though.


edit - Suddenly realised that Mike Skinner wasn't two different characters in the same episode!

Edited by SofaSoGood, Apr 25, 2010 @ 5:20 AM.


#17

darkestboy

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Posted Apr 24, 2010 @ 4:23 PM

Yeah this was a creepy great episode. I don't prefer it to either Blink or Silence In The Library/Forest Of The Dead but it certainly had a lot going for it.

I'm not sure if Matt has better chemistry with Alex than David did but the interaction between 11 and River is definitely bettter than 10 and River and that's saying something.

River knows so much about the Doctor that it's easy to see why he was frustrated with her. Who taught her how to motor the TARDIS? Is she criminal and what is she as well? Maybe she's the Pandorica. I jest, kinda.

I loved the banter between Amy and River, I really did. Amy kind of went out of her way to show us how she wasn't jealous with the Doctor and River that it was rather admirable in it's own way.

We still don't know if River is Mrs Doctor though Amy's teasing certainly was amusing enough. Maybe she's not. Hopefully we'll find out soon though.

The Weeping Angels were a strong point of this episode. Their return was definitely different and learning more about their proprties, effects on people. The Doctor certainly wasn't lying when he said that being sent back in time by one of them was a kinder way to die.

It looks like Amy's becoming an Angel in the worst possible and how effective was it when they used Bob's vocal chords to speak as well. They certainly managed to stick it to the Doctor in such a manner as well.

The cliffhanger for this episode was odd compared to the ones we get in most two parters, not terrible but definitely odd. Love that River knows the look of all the Doctor's faces as well. Did she really call Eleven, 'babyface'? Yikes.

Mike Skinner I wasn't surprised to see. When this episode was being filmed, he tweeted that he was appearing in the series, though he didn't do anything in this episode, 8/10.

#18

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Posted Apr 24, 2010 @ 4:44 PM

Suitably creepy, though it might have been better had it not been a rip-off of Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead (well, recycling, I suppose, since they're written by the same guy). River Song seemed incredibly confident that the Doctor would show up in time (Amy should be pissed that when it's her, he can't get the year right - twice! - but with River he gets there in time to make a last second rescue), though I guess there way be some timey-wimeyness that means she has confidence he will show up on time. But given how fast the angels moved in Blink it was a bit of a let down how they moved at zombie-pace here (I know the Doctor threw out that "buried/starving" line, but it seemed a bit of a cheat). And what happened to "Killing you nicely"? Ripping out your cerebral cortex doesn't seem very nice to me!

Amy was pretty competent, though she makes the classic zombie movie error of going everything is fine when it's clearly not (at least in a zombie movie you have the excuse that if you tell people you've been infected, you're going to be killed - what's the worst the Doctor's going to do, send her to sit in the TARDIS?). Did like the way the angels mess with her perception and the Doctor getting round it by biting her hand (apparently MS really bit KG's hand, much to her surprise). The cliffhanger was a bit weak though as we see that the Doctor has blown up the ceiling and so we know that'll be how he gets away (it would have been a better cliffhanger had they cut it about 30 seconds earlier, surrounded with the angels closing in).

(And I thought it was really funny seeing all those actresses in their angel costumes dancing around and listening to their iPods between takes on Confidential).

#19

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Posted Apr 24, 2010 @ 4:49 PM

Take the handbrake off! Absolutely loved Matt Smith's whimpy attempt to imitate the TARDIS' SFX and howled at the idea that the only reason it even makes that noise is that the Doctor keeps leaving the brake on.

I do hope that doesn't mean they're going to get rid of the sound. They've already changed so much, and that is the iconic Doctor Who sound.

#20

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Posted Apr 24, 2010 @ 4:57 PM

Well, I peed fear. Thanks Steven Moffat!

Best episode of the season, nice mix of plotty, scary and funny. I didn't much like River in SitL/FotD, but I didn't mind her this time around for the following reasons:
-While Ten seemed to think River was great and just wanted to avoid "spoilers", Eleven seemed to genuinely be annoyed and aggravated by her tone and smugness.
-The knowledge that she is definitely more than she first appeared to be--we know she was in prison and I bet there's something even bigger or worse about her that we will find out by the end of the season.
-River's smug "look at how awesome I am"/"I Companion better than anyone ever" was mostly cancelled out by Amy's ongoing snark.
-The implication that all the future!DoctorRiver adventures don't necessarily have to happen, because "time doesn't work that way". Creepy and timey-wimey all in one!

Regarding the last point, I really enjoyed that particular scene between Amy and the Doctor for a reason I can't quite put my finger on. It was scary and moving and awesome and a smidge, uh, shippy.

Bring on part 2! Where it looks like they will explain The Crack a bit!

#21

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Posted Apr 24, 2010 @ 4:57 PM

I do hope that doesn't mean they're going to get rid of the sound. They've already changed so much, and that is the iconic Doctor Who sound.


I'm almost certain they're won't. It seems like 11 knew about the stabilizers, but didn't want to use them because they make things "boring." Same with the breaks, I suspect.

#22

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Posted Apr 24, 2010 @ 4:59 PM

Extremely good part I, I can't wait for next week now. Alex Kingston does indeed seem kind of smugly irritating and hen-peckish, but I'm wondering how much of that is the actress and how much of that is the character. It seems to me that at some point in the future the writers would want to introduce a young (early 20s) actress to play a River Song the first time that she meets the Doctor, and I would imagine that would be all the more interesting if that actress were the polar opposite in attitude from the River we see now.

They keep hammering us with the marriage possibility but think of it in those terms: When a person meets their future spouse for the first time everything is new, everything is uncertain and exciting, everything is wide eyed and fresh. Years go by, there's happiness, but that newness fades away to familiarity. Old married couples DO get on each others nerves, because no other two people could ever know each other as well, with all the bad parts of that thrown in with the good.

So I'm theorizing that Alex Kingston is purposely going over the top as a badgering overly assertive long-term spouse as a set up for our seeing the other end of that relationship.

Hm, or take that farther: In this episode, she's a wife in the middle years (say, 45-55 years old in human terms) of a lifetime marriage. She's comfortable, but also always feeling slightly uncertain about the relationship, as both of them are changing as years roll by. Hence the somewhat abrupt criticizing and ordering. The River we saw in Silence of the Library was certainly strong-willed, but she was also considerably more comfortable with the Doctor, not showing off their relationship or feeling the need to dominate him -- a confidence that comes with several more decades of their life together (think of a couple celebrating their 50th anniversary).

#23

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Posted Apr 24, 2010 @ 5:26 PM

I'm enjoying the Angels so far. I'm looking forward to part 2.

I'm glad they figured out a way to let the angels talk. They're a cool monster, but without a voice they are a little limited. I'm not going to worry too much how they talk through the dead guy. We needed to hear from them somehow.

Most of those statues were decaying. Maybe the Angels are sick? I guess we'll find out next week.

I thought the scene where Amy is ignored was well thought out. She is very new and knows almost nothing about operating the Tardis or assisting the Doctor. It must of stung when the Doctor advised her to spend the day in the Tardis. Off hand, I don't recall a scene like this with Rose or the other recent companions. But, it is logical that there are times when the Doctor needs to deal with serious problems alone.

Edited by aceplace57, Apr 24, 2010 @ 6:03 PM.


#24

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Posted Apr 24, 2010 @ 6:01 PM

I do hope that doesn't mean they're going to get rid of the sound. They've already changed so much, and that is the iconic Doctor Who sound.


If they get rid of the sound, I might not be able to watch anymore. It sort of disturbs me how sacred the Tardis is to me, but it really is.

I don't really get where this two-parter is going. I mean, I get the plot, but I don't see the point yet. Hopefully next week will explain.

River and the Doctor - I liked how River "called" the Doctor to her this time. Stephen Moffat is always good at exploring the tricks you can do with time travel. I also thought it was very believable that the Doctor would want to get the hell away from River as soon as he could. But, in most of the episode there wasn't quite the complexity of how I think the Doctor would feel about River. When I think back to the tenth Doctor's reaction to her when she told him his name and when he watched her die - I was expecting more of a reaction. Instead, this time he mostly just seemed vaguely miffed at her.

Amy and the Doctor - I loved them in this episode. The Doctor telling River to hug Amy when he couldn't, and then telling Amy she was magnificent and then biting her hand. I love how the Doctor is both Amy's protector and her biggest fan. It's a very sweet paternal vibe and it's something we haven't seen yet in newWho.

Edited by Blue Castle, Apr 24, 2010 @ 6:02 PM.


#25

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Posted Apr 24, 2010 @ 6:04 PM

Well given what being warned of his future did to Ten in the specials, he can't be happy about the spoilers River represents.

Also the first time he meets her, she 'dies' I think that affects him too. If he doesn't get so involved with her maybe she doesn't go to the library...

#26

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Posted Apr 24, 2010 @ 6:22 PM

And what happened to "Killing you nicely"? Ripping out your cerebral cortex doesn't seem very nice to me!

They need the bodies for something, so the Doctor theorised. That might mean the cerebral cortex to talk with, or it might mean something else - after all, one cortex, three bodies.

#27

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Posted Apr 24, 2010 @ 6:30 PM

Well the last time an episode made me freak out like that was Blink, so kudos to Moffat for coming up with something even creepier about the Angels. While I still like the first episode best, this one is also pretty good. I do hope the denouement doesn't lessen the impact of this episode, but the previews do seem to indicate more creepiness ahead.

Bob's dead voice was probably one of the most chilling things in this episode and I can just imagine how scared young kids are watching this when I was getting shivers.

I was a bit irritated with River Song at first in this episode, and so I hope there is a character based reason for that. She did keep saying that they are meeting at the wrong times. I wonder if that is just a regular time travel thing or if the crack is messing up when they "should" be meeting up.

And I am not sure of the filming order of episodes, but I actually don't like Amy as much after seeing her in 4 episodes as opposed to my first impression of her. I know that episode one was not the first one filmed, so maybe KG is still trying to find the character in this one. I hope that when we are mid way through, she is back to what she was doing in the initial episode.

#28

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Posted Apr 24, 2010 @ 6:41 PM

And I am not sure of the filming order of episodes, but I actually don't like Amy as much after seeing her in 4 episodes as opposed to my first impression of her. I know that episode one was not the first one filmed, so maybe KG is still trying to find the character in this one. I hope that when we are mid way through, she is back to what she was doing in the initial episode.


This was the first episode filmed actually. Well this and the conclusion who knows the exact order of scenes, but this was very early.

#29

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Posted Apr 24, 2010 @ 7:04 PM

Well given what being warned of his future did to Ten in the specials, he can't be happy about the spoilers River represents.


I guess, in my head, River is a combination of the Doctor fears most and what he wants the most. And now he's watched her die in front of him. I want him to be more than slightly irritated by her or skittish around her.

Edited by Blue Castle, Apr 24, 2010 @ 7:06 PM.


#30

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Posted Apr 24, 2010 @ 7:20 PM

Hope the idea of ideas existing independently of people conceiving goes somewhere next week and that it has something to say to whatever we might learn about River.


I can't remember the exact line of dialogue so I may be off, but my fanwank (which may well be wrong but would be awesome if it was right in my head) is that that line ties in to the fact that "the image of an Angel becomes an Angel."

What if merely the act of *thinking*, or maybe believing, that something is a Weeping Angel, makes it the "image of an Angel" to the person who sees it - and therefore it does, in fact, become one? What if the idea that any stone statue could be a Weeping Angel somehow spread as a meme and became a part of the belief system of every single living thing in the galaxy? There really would be an army of them. These are beings of quantum potential, after all - as said in Blink, they feed on what might have been. Could they only be called into being by people believing they've seen them? There's nightmare fuel for you - if you even entertain the thought that the gargoyle on your local church could be a Weeping Angel, it becomes one...

My personal pet theory is that none of the statues in the temple were originally Weeping Angels, until the Doctor and River thought of the possibility. That's why they were originally completely blank, and their features only come into view once the Doctor convinces himself that they are really Angels. I'm sure it'll all end up being much less pretentious than this, but I'm allowed my theories!

Perception is clearly a much more integral part of what makes the Angels monstrous than previously suggested in Blink. I had thought that Amy was really turning into an Angel, but clearly her perception has been buggered with somehow instead. I'm looking forward to seeing how the next episode plays out for her.