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In Moffat We Trust?: Triumphs, Troubles and Timey Wimey of the Moffat Era (UK)


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#421

Peplow146

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Posted Apr 5, 2012 @ 8:06 AM

My favortie episodes of S6 were TDW ,AGMGTW and TGWW. I know we only have 5 episodes with the Ponds so I don't know how it's going to work. They are not just freinds on a adventrue anymore. They are a family tied by two marriages and blood.

Is the doctor going to be spending more time with his in laws then his wife?. He fired them last year to protect them and then what rehires them?. He is going to lose a lot. Think it will be the price for faking his death. His enemies think they have "won" so will become more powerfull. By the time he comes "back to life" it will be too late.

We have invested a lot of time in Amy , Rory and River/Melody. They deserve a goodfinal storyline.
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#422

darkestboy

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Posted Apr 7, 2012 @ 3:00 PM

I think firing is a bit of an odd way of describing it, don't you think? Even though the Doctor jested about in The God Complex.

Personally, we know the Doctor is going to be spending some time with Amy/Rory before they leave and we get our new female companion during Christmas. Amy and Rory have had an incredible run as companions but it's time for new blood.

River, I think will definitely be in Series 7 but all her main bullet points have been covered so I expect she won't be in a lot of episodes, plus that might be a good thing so the new companion is given time to breathe and have a rapport with the Doctor.

There's a part of me that is hoping at some point towards the end of Series 7 that a male companion appears too. Someone tonally different to Rory and not as a love interest for JLC's character.
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#423

Peplow146

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Posted May 11, 2012 @ 8:21 AM

S7 part 2 is suppose to the polar opposite of S6. Seeing as it involved a lot of loss and "death" in various forms that got to be a good thing.Can we have some happy and funny episodes please?.Doesn't allways have to be about saving the universe and making hard and heartbreaking choices.

Let the doctor bond with his new companion. We also need to get to know her.
Would also be good if she had relatives and other freinds outside the tardis.
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#424

darkestboy

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Posted May 11, 2012 @ 2:09 PM

Actually all of Series 7 is supposed to be the opposite of Series 6 but that's spoilers, so we shouldn't discuss that bit in here.
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#425

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Posted May 12, 2012 @ 8:45 AM

Would also be good if she had relatives and other freinds outside the tardis.


Ooh, I hope not. I'm certainly not missing frequent trips to visist the companions family. Amy is the best way of handling this, in my opinion - the absense of her parents was a plot point, we only saw them and Aunt Sharon as the plot required.
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#426

Peplow146

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Posted May 29, 2012 @ 3:10 AM

Looking at S5 I think it flowed more then S6 Doctor met Amy and the storyline flowed through nicely for all 13 episodes. S6 was more tangled and kept changing. Amy and Rorys reactions to losing their daughter for instance. One minute a infant is taken. Next she is a grown woman with a lot of issues. Amy got a confrontation and her revenge on Kavarian sort off. When the universe was fixed Kavarian was still alive and Amy felt guilty that she had got so dark. What about Rorys feelings?. River is his daughter too.Plus Doctor himself lost his whole family on galifrey durring the time war. If anyone would have understood what they went through it would have been him. He told Rose,Martha and Donna his family had died but lied to Amy and Rory saying he had never had children.Hopefully S7 will sort a few things out.
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#427

darkestboy

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Posted Jun 10, 2012 @ 9:44 AM

Season 6 didn't benefit from being split into two parts, which I'm not sure in retrospect was actually a good idea. Personally I like both of Moffat's seasons so far but I do think that perhaps Season 5 was the better/stronger season of the two.
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#428

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Posted Jun 27, 2012 @ 3:34 PM

Doctor Who has a near 50 year history of being somewhat grander in concept than in execution. Overall I like both of Moffat's seasons but I feel like S6 especially was extremely ambitious in what it set out to achieve and didn't quite get it done. What comes throught is a jumble of great, epic story ideas that came at us too fast and furiously and didn't really have time to breathe. Now that it's over I can see the overall design, and I like it, but I feel like it would have benefitted from a few more episodes to flesh it out. Perhaps S5 could have addressed the Tardis exploding earlier in the season and moved on to the Silence more quickly? But except for a couple subpar early episodes, I really liked S5 the way that it was, so I wouldn't have altered it to make S6 flow more smoothly.

I just hope he gets a little less ambitious with what he can cram into a season going forward. I love Moffat as a writer but I feel like he's not as proficient at being a showrunner. I felt the opposite about Davies - didn't always like the episodes he penned personally (especially the overcooked season finales) but I felt like he did a great job at running the show and the product we got was pretty much what he was going for. With Moffat, I feel like the writing staff has a million good ideas that can't all make it to the screen, and the process of boiling it all down into 13 50-minute episodes doesn't always go as planned. It seems like they need to do some more planning before they start turning out scripts?
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#429

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Posted Jun 28, 2012 @ 9:50 AM

It seems like they need to do some more planning before they start turning out scripts?


I feel like Moffat plans, but it's mostly long-term end-game stuff. It sometimes feels like they're so intent on making sure that none of that stuff gets lost that they lose sight of the fact that each series also needs to flow properly and be watchable. Series 5 seemed well-paced and the one larger arc was basically wrapped up by series' end. Series 6 seemed more like a 'bridge' series, you get some major revelations thrown in but it's still leading up to something more final and, by necessity, needs to include lots of disparate plot elements that'll only make sense a year from now. I wish they'd focus a bit more on the here-and-now of each episode.
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#430

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Posted Sep 7, 2012 @ 5:39 PM

From Moffat's Twitter.

"Out for dinner with my son, Louis. "Dad, what do you when you can't think of an idea? Is that what happened with The Beast Below?"


HAHA
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#431

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Posted Sep 7, 2012 @ 9:32 PM

One thing I like about the Moffat era is that the show has really backed off from highly visible alien attacks in modern-day England. Since The Eleventh Hour, it's really only been in the series finales that things go wrong on a global scale, and those always end up being in screwed-up timelines that get erased/reset/etc. On the few occasions when aliens show up in the 21st century, only people like Craig and Sophie, the father and son in Night Terrors, or the few people from the series 5 Silurian story ever know about it. During RTD's reign, when aliens would strike London 2-3 times a year and we'd get the inevitable montage of news commentators, it got ridiculous to hear, "Aliens? You're mad - there's no such thing!" Nowadays, it's much easier to buy that people would be freaked out by the idea of aliens, especially if the Crack from series 5 ate the big Dalek invasion and whatnot.
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#432

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Posted Sep 19, 2012 @ 10:43 PM

While I appreciate it when difficult topics are addressed, especially regarding the consequences of the doctor's actions, I find myself very frustrated with the Moffat era in that respect.
While RTD was often a bit overly dramatic, at least the consequences were shown and resonated in a way that they just don't at the moment.
Martha's conundrum with the doctor led more of less beautifully to her abandoning the doctor for her own good. And she only had a crush that the doctor chose to ignore.

I haven't seen Amy blink much of an eye to the fact that her childhood was deleted, she was abducted, abused, and her child has been taken away from her. Yes, infertility happened but the psychological repercussions have barely been addressed except in a rather childish way with a divorce that, for adults, makes not a lick of sense. And even less so with two people who have known each since childhood. And apparently for Rory, this was all no big deal because he had not one line of dialog that I can remember that would mention all this. I kinda miss these strands of character development that weave through a whole series, both for the doctor and the companion.

On the other hand, I love twisting my brain with the weird time travel plots, especially the River thing. I just watched the library episodes again and they resonate now so much more knowing River better.

So, I wish Moffat would just completely stay away from it all and be clever with time travel plots and leave the difficult themes to the next runner. I just hope Matt Smith will still be there.
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#433

Princess Aldrea

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Posted Sep 20, 2012 @ 6:29 AM

I haven't seen Amy blink much of an eye to the fact that her childhood was deleted,

Her childhood was deleted? What do you mean? Her parents got deleted but then she now has the memories of them existing again after rebooting the universe and she never even realized that they were gone until moments before getting them back so there doesn't seem to be much need for angst on that front.

Edited by Princess Aldrea, Sep 25, 2012 @ 5:39 AM.

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#434

Lebanna

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Posted Sep 20, 2012 @ 2:55 PM

And apparently for Rory, this was all no big deal because he had not one line of dialog that I can remember that would mention all this.


I completely agree. I love Rory, but he has been written as a rather static character. He's henpecked, he loves Amy like crazy - this is how he was in the beginning and it's how he still appears now. All these huge events, dying all over the place, two thousand years of being plastic, traveling all over the universe, fighting a war, losing his daughter, seeing his wife and child abused and tortured...

None of this seems to have made any impact on him at all. Which is obviously a conscious choice by the writers, and I can see that it means that he comes across as a rather sweet and sympathetic character, but it's also a rather lazy choice, as it means that they get to do all this to him and have him bounce back and reset to factory settings each time. There should be something different about him, after all that.
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#435

supposebly

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Posted Sep 22, 2012 @ 3:06 PM

Her childhood was deleted? What do you mean? Her parents got deleted but then she now has the memories of them existing again after rebooting the universe and she never even realized that they were gone until moments before getting them back


While I certainly don't quite get what the hell happened there, if I remember correctly, she mentioned once that she remembers both having parents and not having parents. I assumed she knew they were gone, that's how she explained living with her aunt.

Then there is the 'timeline' where she lived with an aunt and there were no stars. Btw., I'm still not sure if that was the same one the Doctor came back to and that had no ducks in the pond in the 11th Hour.

I think my whole point is, nothing really changed her. There are no lasting fall-outs from her experiences and I miss that. That's why the RTD era has a better rewatch potential for me than the Moffat era. At least so far.

Edited by supposebly, Sep 25, 2012 @ 10:39 PM.

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#436

O2Sean

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Posted Oct 8, 2012 @ 8:37 AM

While I appreciate it when difficult topics are addressed, especially regarding the consequences of the doctor's actions, I find myself very frustrated with the Moffat era in that respect.
While RTD was often a bit overly dramatic, at least the consequences were shown and resonated in a way that they just don't at the moment.
Martha's conundrum with the doctor led more of less beautifully to her abandoning the doctor for her own good. And she only had a crush that the doctor chose to ignore.


I felt like Martha had consequences mostly to see the Doctor react to them. She moved away from her medical career to be more of a soldier, solely so we could see the Doctor feel remorse for turning her into a weapon. She inexplicably married Mickey, just so they could be crammed into the finale together to be saved by the Doctor.

Moffat should have done far more to let viewers see the changes Amy and Rory went through because of what happened to them. On paper, their lives were completely demolished, destroyed, then put back together again, with some tattered pieces remaining. They led multiple lives in multiple timelines and remembered all of them. That's not even getting into River, River-as-Mels.

However, this bothered me more in season 6 (particularly the lack of followup to the River reveal and to "Girl Who Waited", where Rory was obviously disgusted by the Doctor) than it did in season 7. I think he managed to show some of the maturity both Amy and Rory had gone through, and how it had hollowed Amy somewhat. I liked that we saw Brian as who Rory would have been if Rory had never experienced space and time and adventure. I felt like I actually had seen these people grow and change, not as much as the events in their lives probably should have changed them, but enough to where I can look back and remember the moments and scenes which moved them forward. I also liked that some of the basic questions which were annoying at first, like "Does Amy love Rory?" were turned on their heads over time - at first I thought she was just using him, and I wished he could find someone who wanted him. I knew why he was insecure. Then I felt like she did love him, and she just didn't always show it. Finally, I felt like she truly did love him, more than anything, and I wanted him to see that. It made me care about Amy, while still understanding Rory's doubts.

I had such mixed feelings about some of the writing for Rory and Amy, and their exit, but ultimately I think I prefer the character arcs for them to those for RTD's companions. We could sort of fill in the gaps for Rory and Amy, and imagine what they might have felt. The basic, early characters were still there, just shifting a little over time - Rory could save the universe but was still that goofy, awkward guy from Eleventh Hour, while Amy was a more settled quieter version of the same flirty, fickle personality.

Mickey was jerked through a sharp personality change when RTD presumably realized how badly done the character had been under his pen, Martha became a plot device, Adam was one of the worst written characters ever on Doctor Who, Donna was apparently built up solely so we could feel sad for the Doctor when he had to mindwipe her, and when we saw her again, she was basically in the exact same life she'd hated and wanted to escape, only now she had a husband and a rich grandfather. The only one who had a solid characterization was Rose, and even then I'm not sure how many fans truly felt that her getting a markdown Doctor was a happy ending.

The most important part of Rory and Amy, in my opinion, was that no matter what they went through with the Doctor, they never let him define them, or their choices. That's something which I will truly miss, and it's something I did not realize how much I'd missed on Doctor Who until that ghastly death rattle of David Tennant's last stories.

My only big complaint is I wish we'd seen more of the emotional relationships between River/Rory and Rory/Eleven. There was some buildup with the first before River told them she was their child, and very little after. River seemed very fond of Rory and confided in him in ways she couldn't with others, but then this was forgotten. I feel like a lot of the fondness between Rory and the Doctor came from the actors. ATM being so much about the Doctor losing Amy and reacting to losing Amy that it undercut Rory's own relationship with the Doctor. RTD also mostly focused on certain emotional relationships (usually Doctor/female companion), but Rory wasn't written the same way as someone like Mickey was in the Doctor's eyes, so the lack of closure was jarring.

I also think having Brian encourage Amy and Rory to go with the Doctor, and the Doctor promise to keep them safe, and having no followup with the Doctor going to see Brian after they're gone, was a poor writing choice. Even if it would have been another martyr moment, RTD would have had the Doctor go back to tell him. I'm not even sure why they had that scene if there was no followup.

Edited by O2Sean, Oct 8, 2012 @ 9:10 AM.

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#437

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Posted Oct 8, 2012 @ 7:44 PM

I'd expressed this in the "Angels Take Manhattan" thread, but I'm hoping the new companion breathes some fresh creative energy into Moffat's reign on Doctor Who. For all it's flaws, and there were many, RTD's era still captured the escapist thrill of being whisked away in the Doctor's Tardis. That seems to have worn off or just isn't there anymore with Moffat's take. I've enjoyed other work Moffat has done... his writing during the RTD era and Sherlock, so perhaps there is some hope, but it all depends on how much Moffat is willing to change direction. He does seem overly in love with his own creations... bringing back the Angels over and over again (granted they started out as a terrific villain in a great episode)... keeping Amy and Rory as companions FAR too long... and is there anyone else on Earth besides Moffat that was pining to see the return of Craig from "The Lodger", one of the worst episodes of NuWho series 5 (it eventually became the standard of quality for series 6 and 7). I'm pretty sure Moffat will keep River around and wouldn't be surprised to see an Amy and Rory return..

If Moffat keeps the show in the same direction, which frankly I expect, I'm really looking forward to the end of his era, even if it means the end of Matt Smith as the Doctor, who generally I like and regard as the lone bright spot of Moffat's tenure.
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#438

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Posted Oct 8, 2012 @ 10:51 PM

and is there anyone else on Earth besides Moffat that was pining to see the return of Craig from "The Lodger", one of the worst episodes of NuWho series 5


I had heard nothing but bad stories about James Corden, and by the time the episode aired, I was annoyed at the direction of the fifth season, but I actually did enjoy most of "The Lodger," and of Craig. I thought Corden and Matt Smith had a fun crazy energy which the Doctor didn't seem as forced as it sometimes did with this Doctor and other people, and I laughed at the weird moments like the Doctor joining Craig's friends for a football match and thoroughly showing Craig up the whole time. I know that someone could look at the Craig story and see it as trite, or somewhat sexist (as we mostly just see him, then him as a father, while his partner barely features), but overall I liked Craig and was happy to see him back. I think my only complaint about "Closing Time," a serious one anyway, was that we randomly saw Amy as some sort of fashion model, which reminded me of how much I thought they dropped regarding the issues she and Rory must have gone through after everything at Demon's Run.

If Moffat keeps the show in the same direction, which frankly I expect, I'm really looking forward to the end of his era, even if it means the end of Matt Smith as the Doctor, who generally I like and regard as the lone bright spot of Moffat's tenure.


I wouldn't mind seeing a new producer if they could find the right combination of the work of RTD and Moffat, with their own spin. My main concern would be if they decide the show has gotten too "inside" and that the way forward is to return to a matinee idol Doctor who exists for the beautiful blonde young lady who gives up everything for him. I don't think that will work again.

I think Moffat had, in some cases, the right idea, which ended up being both too complex and too simple. The Doctor's relationships with Rory/Amy, and their relationship with each other - some would say these were both run into the ground. I didn't mind, as I thought the actors and some of the scripts kept it fresh and showed the relationships changing. The problem was all the trauma which was thrown at the companions, and how this was never directly addressed in their relationship with the Doctor. Could Amy ever truly get over the knowledge that the "raggedy man" she'd worshiped as a child was the man who inadvertently led her to be held captive throughout her pregnancy, had her child stolen, and led her to be barren? What was the relationship between the Doctor and Rory like after what he made Rory do in "The Girl Who Waited"? Did Rory ever feel the same way about the Doctor again? As Rory and Amy both experienced so many alternative lives and deaths, and became legends of their own, how did this change the typical Doctor/companion relationship where he clearly is supposed to be somewhere above them in knowledge and importance? River as Rory's and Amy's daughter, it seems like a great twist, but if you don't explore the emotions and the long-term fallout, then you're left with a slight unease.

Overall, as much as I probably picked some individual episodes to death, and had concerns about trauma without emotional consequences, I will have good memories of the last few years of the show. But I think this is a good chance to refresh, and by refresh, I mean:

- Establish the companion as important to the Doctor, but also important to herself, not just someone who lives for him
- Establish complex story arcs which aren't just complex for the sake of it, and which will be properly explored
- If a companion undergoes torture, then let us see the fallout of this torture on the companion and their relationship with the Doctor.
- Don't bring up huge ordeals and then end with a few quips, no matter how well-written the quips are.

I also hope they won't be too scared off from the two-companion format. I don't mind a rest from it for a while but I love the two (or even three) companion format and I think the show desperately needed it again. I think it would also be nice to return to two companions who don't know each other before they meet on the TARDIS. RTD did this but only for one or two episodes, if that.

Edited by O2Sean, Oct 8, 2012 @ 11:14 PM.

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#439

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Posted Oct 16, 2012 @ 7:59 PM

and is there anyone else on Earth besides Moffat that was pining to see the return of Craig from "The Lodger", one of the worst episodes of NuWho series 5


For some reason James Cordon and the character he always plays, Craig/ Smithy/ Jamie/ the fat kid from Teachers etc, is popular with many of the British Public (IMHO). This is perhaps the reason that the Appreciation index score for the Lodger came in at 87, making it the joint third most popular episode of s5 (with Time of Angels) and at the time of airing it was joint highest (the top 2 were the finale)

Now personally I did not like the Lodger precisely because I disliked the Craig character (the story was pretty good, but I fastforwarded through most of Craig). But I can understand that given AI scores that Moffat/BBC would immediately offer Cordon another appearance.
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#440

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Posted Oct 17, 2012 @ 12:12 PM

I think it would also be nice to return to two companions who don't know each other before they meet on the TARDIS. RTD did this but only for one or two episodes, if that.


I'd like that too. It brings back this sense of motley crew in the TARDIS and how people from widely different planets, eras and backgrounds got along through their missions with the Doctor. I don't think it should be a series long arc though, but definitely more than a couple of episodes with possibility of returns.

I stopped watching this show towards the end of S6 and vaguely keep it up through the recaps and through other Whovians. I can't precisely list all the reasons why I stopped because this show use to be a must-see for me. I think the criticism that others have listed put into words some of the feelings I've had about this era.

The lack of character consistency and complexity does bug me. After Amy and Rory found out that River Song was their child, I was expecting some sort of emotional ramifications whether that is Amy and Rory questioning it with the Doctor, confronting someone, and trying to figure out how traumatic that the whole experience was for them. They kinda glossed over and I know eventually Amy got her revenge, but it seemed too late. I also adore Rory, and Moffett could have made him more than Mr Pond, but that's what he remained. I never liked the River/Doctor very much, and even though I like the actors, I found they didn't really have the chemistry to portray this epicness.

There were problems with RTD's run, but they are more rewatchable for me for emotional reasons than anything in the new Moffett era. I do think I will rewatch Gaiman's episode, but other than that, nothing stands out , but I haven't invested in Moffett era characters as I did in RTD's time.
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#441

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Posted Oct 17, 2012 @ 1:39 PM

What I always wanted to see, and will I guess have to trawl fic for, were scenes where Rory and River talked, where they dealt with her relationship with the Doctor, if he felt that River would always be a part of the Doctor, more than she ever was a part of Rory or Amy, his feelings on her being brought up to be a weapon, when he spent many years being a healer, the whole Mels situation, how her thrill for battle makes him feel about his own years as the Centurion. I wanted to see Amy and River have talks too but I feel like that would have turned into "who loves the Doctor the most." We did get to see more of their relationship (albeit not much) but Rory was written as more of an afterthought.

The idea of the Doctor traveling with his in-laws, marrying the daughter of the woman he knew all her life, etc. is very clever, but in a continuing series, runs into a roadblock if you don't want to explore it. I think they planned for the "moments", but not the followup scenes (which is why you get people asking why Brian doesn't know about River, and why people kept asking about Brian learning about Rory and Amy, until the show/BBC kindly put up P.S.).

Last season this started to greatly annoy me toward the last few episodes. Since then I just started to focus on the performances and some of the great moments and stories, and hope they might clean up a little now that they have a new companion.
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#442

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Posted Oct 18, 2012 @ 9:26 AM

and I know eventually Amy got her revenge,

I don't think that she did, really, since it never actually happened (they were trapped in a world where all of time happened at once) and they might not even remember it.
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#443

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Posted Oct 18, 2012 @ 10:32 AM

I don't think that she did, really, since it never actually happened (they were trapped in a world where all of time happened at once) and they might not even remember it.


I forgot this, but yeah, that makes it even worse. Not that I am an advocate of revenge, but was there no follow through to having herself and her child kidnapped (and made into a weapon)?

I wanted to see Amy and River have talks too but I feel like that would have turned into "who loves the Doctor the most." We did get to see more of their relationship (albeit not much) but Rory was written as more of an afterthought.


Sadly, I could see how this would have happened in Moffett land. I just found a lack of emotional consequences for that storyline. River would probably always be apart of the Doctor more than her parents, but her being their daughter was more a plot device than for much character development or growth for Rory and Amy. I also really like the Rory/River scenes as she seemed to be fond of him. Oh well.
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#444

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Posted Oct 18, 2012 @ 12:14 PM

I've already said this stuff too many times anyway but I absolutely loved a few of the River and Rory scenes, like the one where she confided in him about her feelings for the Doctor and knowing the more she sees him the less he remembers her, and then the scene at Stormcage where she somewhat giddily confided in him about her date with the Doctor. Both times he seemed slightly confused as to why she was being so open with him. Once he found out who she was, that seemed to stop. Aside from a few of her scenes with Eleven, those are hands down my favorite River scenes. Looking back, I wonder if those were sort of generic talk-to scenes (because River couldn't confide in Amy or the Doctor, since she knew them better), and the actors made them much more powerful than they were intended to be.

I feel like after the way Tennant's last stories turned out, I've started to move more into bargaining instead of expecting too much, but I do think if they just add a little more emotional weight to scenes and a little more followthrough, and less epic arc-style writing, the pieces will come together.

Edited by O2Sean, Oct 18, 2012 @ 12:15 PM.

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#445

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Posted Jan 4, 2013 @ 10:14 AM

Ask Steven Moffat Questions

That's right, YOU, yes you can ask steven moffat questions, just don't do the following:

-Bad words
-Questions about spoilers or secrets
-Questions that have been asked frequently


By the way, that's his son who posted the video. He will be interviewing his father based on the fans questions.
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#446

Sohei

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Posted Jan 20, 2013 @ 11:12 AM

The video response to that is now up

Moffat interviewed by his son
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#447

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Posted Jan 26, 2013 @ 9:46 PM

From a long, long while ago:

I don't like the timey-wimey line

and

To me, it just seems like Steven Moffat really likes Buffy and is trying to appropriate its language.


Moffat is not just a poor man's Whedon, but he's kind of the bizarro Whedon. All the cutesiness that makes me want to puke, with a nice dollop of misogyny thrown on top. I like Whedon, but his style of cutesy, made-up words has gained attention for its supposed "cleverness". I don't find it clever. I find it annoying and cloying. The cutesy nature of the show got a start under RTD, but it wasn't as central to the tone. Moffat is every bit as bad as Whedon, but also has the kind of personal agenda (which comes through in his characterizations) that makes me unwilling to support the franchise under his reign. Thanks, but better things to do than watch another reactionary woman-hater. (I didn't realize Moffat had anything to do with Coupling, but learning that explains a lot.)

We could sort of fill in the gaps for Rory and Amy, and imagine what they might have felt.

Going back to the Whedon comparison, I remember at the end of Buffy S6, there was debate over Spike's intent when he left Sunnydale and fought the demon in the cave. Well, the audience was left to "fill in the gaps". Like Moffat with the Silent, Whedon explained his intent in interviews instead of showing it onscreen. When it's something important to the story and the characters, expecting the audience to fill in the gaps for weak writing is...well...weak, IMO. Why should we be left to fill in the gaps and imagine what these two might have felt, when these are large, important parts of the season arc?

I watched the first half-season after Moffat took over, and then I was done. I have caught an episode or two since then, but it's always been because someone else was in control of the TV. He's made the franchise something I'm no longer willing to invest my time in.

I know some think the refusal to put any thought into the companions as real people is returning to the 1970s version of the show. Well, to me, that's a problem. I lived through the '70s. I don't want to go back there. Of course, Moffat, with his love of all things "masculine", might love to drag us into the past. Again, that's a problem and doesn't make me want to watch the show.
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#448

Thena

Thena

    Fanatic

Posted Jan 27, 2013 @ 7:43 PM

Why should we be left to fill in the gaps and imagine what these two might have felt, when these are large, important parts of the season arc?


Indeed. My issue with Moffatt on this show and Sherlock has been that he seems to sacrifice character development and pathos for "cleverness" or "epicness" or whatever -ness he is going for. He has written interesting villains and the plotting is interesting, but there is a disconnect with the characters. Not to say that I want Who to be a serious drama where people talk about their feelings for the Doctor 24/7, but you can inject emotional consequences to these adventures. The way he writes women or rather not write them has irked me as well. River remains a cipher and I'm not sure why I should be invested in the relationship she has with the Doctor. He seems to tell more than show with his characters if he does at all.
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#449

SnideAsides

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Posted May 29, 2013 @ 4:01 AM

Agreed. He's forgotten that when you do a timey-wimey episode, you need to have a story that works even without the gimmick, and you need to do it rarely enough it doesn't become the focus of the show. It's why one of The X-Files's two time travel episodes is a classic (Triangle) and one is a spectacular flop (Synchrony).

 

It's hard to believe Dinosaurs on a Spaceship has gone down as one of the better S7 episodes - between the forgettable crap, my desire to never see the Daleks or Weeping Angels again, and The Name of the Doctor basically just being people sitting down and talking for 40 minutes (and not even coming close to the quality of Midnight in the process), it's been a depressingly bad season.


Edited by SnideAsides, May 29, 2013 @ 4:18 AM.

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#450

starkllr

starkllr

    Couch Potato

Posted May 30, 2013 @ 1:11 PM

I think they planned for the "moments", but not the followup scenes

 

To me, this in one sentence captures a very big part of what's bad about Moffat (and also about RTD as time went on in his reign).  Although I'd add that it isn't just the followup they don't plan for, but the buildup, too.


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