27 replies to this topic

[raceguy120390]

Re the thread title: I'M SORRY.

Our one week of Africa rewatching time begins Monday. It's not a great season, really, but at least we can get it out of the way early. (This is, of course, said about a week before we [re]watch the first Australian season, aka The One With The Dead Winner, which makes this one look downright Emmy-worthy by comparison. Boo, teamwork! Also, if you haven't seen Australian Survivor already, message me so I can point you in the right direction.)

While I'm here, what the fuck was that moaning noise they kept playing throughout this season? It sounded like someone was saying hi to someone named Shabaday. (It was also used randomly in the leadup to a challenge in HvV a couple of weeks ago.)

[OmarsComing]

Man...I could not watch this season. I didn't get past episode 1. No interesting people at all. Someone convince me cause i dig Tom, but this season smelled like a snoozefest.

[whippletheduck]

I think the show was epic for the first 4 episodes, the back and forth and the implosion of Samburu on age-lines, back then it was truely engaging.

The Switch...the first of it's kind. Personally I have always felt it was done in the way it was done to ensure that the Young Samburu Alliance was dismantled. Had they forced the ENTIRE tribe to go to the "RC" and had the switch done then randomly it would have been clear it was truely random- I believe that Burnett knew that this twist would break up the MallRat Gang.

This season also has the ultimate in what I believe was the worst mistake in Survivor History, Brandon Quinton's vote for Kelly instead of Lex in Episode 8. This move essentially stopped the first real jump from one alliance to another.....it radically affected not only the outcome of the season that at that point, was clear it was going to be Lex/Tom/EZ in the top spots. Had Brandon done the right thing, Lex/EZ/Tom almost certainly would have been pagonged and in all likelihood, only Lex would have been an ALL STAR, and only if he was what we all expect he would be, the ultimate sore loser that we have ever seen.

The effect it would have had on All Stars would have been tremendous. They say that Kelly Goldsmith was almost an All Star. With her now in the top 3, possibly even winning Africa, she WOULD have been an All Star and Amber in all likelihood (maybe Jenna L) would not now be an All Star. Brandon may well have gone out again, maybe not. But with several male slots open, I imagine Jeff Varner would have been sent back and since he was responsible for nearly all the leaks on ALL STARS, that may not have developed.

[raceguy120390]

And our week of discussing Africa is officially over. Here's the pointer to our next season up for discussion, Australian Survivor. Enjoy!

[whippletheduck]

well for the record I love this season!!!

[sienna gold]

This is the season that brought me to Survivor, so for me this is like WAY up there in Survivor love. Now whipple has made me totally rethink the ENTIRE way I viewed the Lex/Kelly/Brendan debacle lol. [Thanks whipple ;)]

I didn't know that [tidbit] about Varner. [I loved him]. I really loved Brendan too, he had such gorgeous eyes. So many "old school" Survivors you just don't hear about anymore which is either a good thing [because they aren't all famemongers], but bad too, because it's like they came, they played and just, vanished.

I would really love to have this on a DVD with commentary with Lex, and Brendan and Silas and all and get some inside info.

[whippletheduck]

Personally I could not stand Jeff Varner, never got what people saw in him. And he was behind virtually all the leaks. He did a blog in december of 2003 talking about how he thinks the winner's are all going to be targetted early.....not too outrageous as a lot of people thought that was coming (and why Burnett did not see that coming and put all the winners together on one tribe is beyond me).

But then Varner claimed that he had a gut feeling that there would be a romance on the show......and how it would probably be Rob M and Amber.......

There was no reason to believe that there would be a romance between those two specifically and so at that point, it was generally believed he had been tipped off to what was happening and was trying to make himself look smart by posting it so he would seem a genius. There were other things that he said he had a "gut feeling" would happen in S8 so it was pretty conclusive he had been tipped off (either by someone in production or Alicia it is believed).

If Brandon had voted out Lex, there is, IMHO a very good chance that he could have won vs Kelly in the final two. Assuming that Kelly/Brandon/Kim P/T-Bird/Frank stuck together and pagonged Lex/EZ/Tom/Kim J.........

We'll never know......I think that if it were Kelly vs Brandon in the final two.....

Lex- would be the most bitter, hate filled juror ever that would dwarf even Sue Hawk (and thus, why he would still be an All Star). Would do everything in his power to make sure Kelly lost, would condemn her as a traitor and would do everything behind the scenes and stuff to ensure Kelly's loss.

Tom, EZ- both in all likelihood would vote against Kelly here. Yes, EZ said he what he said about Brandon but in this case, the fact that Kelly directly betrayed their alliance (or so they thought, depends on if Theresa owned up to the Lex vote).

KJ- Kim would not be as 'vengeful' as Lex would be, but it would not be a sure thing whom she would vote for.

Kim Powers- probably vote for Brandon.

Frank, Theresa- I think both would be fair, despite all the problems Brandon/Frank had, under this condition, where Brandon voted out Lex and gave Frank his best chance at winning, anything could happen.

Like I said, Brandon's vote against Kelly was the worst decision in Survivor history. Not only did it stop the first 'jump ship' of an alliance, it also ended up costing him his own game 3 day's later when he got voted out. Furthermore, the impact it had on ALL STARS 1 continues to be felt to this day.

If only Brandon had put aside his real-world hatred for Frank. Yes I understand that Brandon's life as a gay man has not been easy and people like Frank are primarily responsible for that, but it seemed that Frank was willing to work with Brandon/Kim Powers to get a chance to reach the end and because Brandon should have known that He/Kelly/Kim Powers would eventually reach the end, it becomes the worse decision in Survivor history.

other bad decisions were bad but I don't think had the same impact as many of the others have had.

Edited by whippletheduck, Jun 5, 2010 @ 11:28 PM.

[daisydonut]

I just re-watched Africa this weekend, and, wow. The show was so very different, especially Probst and the editing. I enjoyed watching the challenges and hearing the players interact, instead of hearing Probst yelling the entire time. I felt as if I got to know all of the players, even the early boots. The rewards were great, especially the trips into the villages, which felt much more real than the "ceremonies" arranged in the more recent seasons. And the reunion with Bryant Gumble (whom I greatly dislike) was much more entertaining. Once again, all of the players had a chance to say whatever they wanted to say, they showed some audition tapes, and there was much less of an agenda.

In sum, it was pleasant to watch Survivor without having one person or one idea shoved down my throat. The players made the show, and it was refreshing. It was a much more mature show. Seems now Survivor has been dumbed down for the masses.

[whippletheduck]

oh, don't get me wrong- I freaking loved this season. I just think it could have been so much better but every season you are always going to look at bad plays and what could have been scenarios, this one more then most (thanks to Brandon Quinton)

[ljenkins782]

I just rewatched this season and I really liked it, though the first few episodes drag a bit.

The Switch...the first of it's kind. Personally I have always felt it was done in the way it was done to ensure that the Young Samburu Alliance was dismantled. Had they forced the ENTIRE tribe to go to the "RC" and had the switch done then randomly it would have been clear it was truely random- I believe that Burnett knew that this twist would break up the MallRat Gang.

I agree that this was deliberately done to smash that alliance, but I am A-okay with that but I couldn't stand Lindsey or Silas. I'm 50/50 on Brandon, but the arrogance of Silas just drove me batty. That whole "you oldsters need to vote the way we want you to even though the 4 of us are not going to tell you which of you we're going to pick off" spiel made the instant karma of the shuffle all the sweeter.

Also, I really loved T-Bird and I'm glad that she got a chance to go further. She was one of the most pleasant people I've seen on this show and I would have liked to see her take the whole thing. Still not sure why she ever admitted to that Lex vote though, Lex of all people was not going to forgive that in anyone.

Speaking of Lex...what a douche. I thought he'd become more douchey in ASS but nope, he was an ass in Africa too. He's so transparent too, he's all good guy/politician until someone tries to actually play the game against him and all of the sudden he's both an asshole AND a hypocrite for being angry that people aren't playing their games just to propel him to the top.

I got a big kick out of Clarence's Early Show appearance where he calls Ethan and Lex geeks because it's pretty true. I don't mind Ethan much, but Lex really is a nerd. He reminds me of every "older" guy who's still trying to become a rock star and considers himself the coolest guy in the room.

This season also has the ultimate in what I believe was the worst mistake in Survivor History, Brandon Quinton's vote for Kelly instead of Lex in Episode 8. This move essentially stopped the first real jump from one alliance to another.....it radically affected not only the outcome of the season that at that point, was clear it was going to be Lex/Tom/EZ in the top spots. Had Brandon done the right thing, Lex/EZ/Tom almost certainly would have been pagonged and in all likelihood, only Lex would have been an ALL STAR, and only if he was what we all expect he would be, the ultimate sore loser that we have ever seen.

Yeah, that was a shame. My main reason for wishing he'd voted Lex was because it would have gotten Lex off my screen sooner and yeah, his bitterness would have been EPIC. I kind of liked Kelly even if she was a little bitchy, she certainly has more personality than Amber, so I would have liked to see her on All-Stars.

And the reunion with Bryant Gumble (whom I greatly dislike) was much more entertaining. Once again, all of the players had a chance to say whatever they wanted to say, they showed some audition tapes, and there was much less of an agenda.

Bryant Gumbel was pretty good at the reunion and on the Early shows, he is sort of a dick sometimes but it works out because he doesn't back down from asking hard questions.

[raceguy120390]

He also knows what to ask, and whom to ask it to, which are two things Peachy still has no idea about. Sigh.

[whippletheduck]

Agreed, Jeff Probst, as a producer of the show, is only going to go so far in his questions.

For example, I think Bryant Gumbell would have played whatever it was that Christy Smith said when she wrote Jenna's name down, even if her actual statement made it clear she thought she was voting against her. Probst it seemed was giving Christy the opportunity to come clean on that, and Christy's answer was not that good, and I personally think she did misunderstand Probst's instructions and thought she had voted against Jenna, but all it would have changed is from a 6/1 Jenna win to a 5-2 win......

[ljenkins782]

For example, I think Bryant Gumbell would have played whatever it was that Christy Smith said when she wrote Jenna's name down, even if her actual statement made it clear she thought she was voting against her. Probst it seemed was giving Christy the opportunity to come clean on that, and Christy's answer was not that good, and I personally think she did misunderstand Probst's instructions and thought she had voted against Jenna, but all it would have changed is from a 6/1 Jenna win to a 5-2 win......

I don't think I believe that Christy misunderstood the rules. It was six seasons in and I'm sure there were precautions taken to include her. I just watched the Amazon reunion recently and her answer was fairly straightforward when asked why she voted Jenna, she simply said that she'd been with Jenna since day 1 and only met Matt halfway through. Based on what Christy had to say about Matt (that he was creepy), it's very possible that she simply didn't want to vote for him.

Had it been Rob C. she probably would have voted for him.

ETA:

Back to the Africa season, I think this is one of the locations I would have least wanted to be in if I were on this show. No beach and no water to swim/bathe/fish? No thanks, give me Fiji or something.

Edited by ljenkins782, Aug 12, 2010 @ 4:46 PM.

[whippletheduck]

1) To the Christy Smith thing, until they show us her entire video of what she said, we will never know. When you see the way Probst's kept showing the video and the way he asked her, it looked to me like Probst was opening the door for Christy to say what really was up, that is how it looked to me. Because it was a 6/1 vote and Christy if she REALLY meant to vote against Jenna meant nothing, I can see why they did not show it in order to protect the "innocent deaf girl" image that they wanted, not the "bitter, hate filled deaf girl" that we all saw.

I wish Jenna had taken Rob C, because I firmly believe Jenna wins 4/3 with Christy's vote being the deciding factor. In this case, I think that they can't cover up Christy's vote and flat out show her voting in such a way that makes it clear she wanted Jenna to lose. Christy would probably run off stage crying if that happened.

[orangepenguin]

I just watched the entire season for the first time ever, so all I knew what to expect was that Ethan was the winner, there was a Kim (turns out there was two), and that a guy named Lex was the so-called villain of the season.

Well, right away, I really liked the season and the cast. I think it would suck to be on this season, just because of the lack of water, trees, and landscape typical in mostly every other season. For some reason, I always tend to root for one tribe, and this season it was the Boron tribe.

Straight away, I was really disappointed to see Diane and Jessie go. I really was a fan of Jessie, so I was sad that she was unable to handle the landscape, nor knew that she needed to make alliances to make it in the game.

Predictably, as in other seasons, the tribe that starts out so strong soon collapses, and for some reason, I was happy to see the young people prevail and boot Carl, mostly because I couldn't stand Frank, and Lisa's "Mother Africa" constant preaching was a bit annoying. So I wasn't too upset about the tribe switch and see Silas and Lindsay get the axe as a result. Silas was entitled, annoying, and I thought he had it coming. As much as I like Lindsay as a person, she too was annoying, and I wanted Tom, Kelly, and Lex to prevail over Kim, Lindsay, Brandon and was happy that the other tribe leaked the Lindsay having previous votes against her (which I thought was a weird concept, not having seen this done before, being used to fire tie breakers, so it made the game a bit interesting to watch)

Clarence's boot was long overdue. I thought he deserved to go over Diane, but obviously, he is stronger, and probably played a huge part in Boron's turn around, and once he stopped the crazy, was likable enough.

I was really sad to see Kelly get eliminated so early. I loved her and thought she was awesomely snarky, kind of like Courtney, but I think Kelly is a smarter player (even though Courtney made it to the finals in China, unlike Kelly, so.. maybe not?) But if it was her or Lex to go, I was happy it was her, and not Lex, who some reason, became my favorite contestant, even though all the posts in this topic indicate I am in the minority. haha.

Once Brandon and Frank left though, I liked everyone left in the game. I thought Kim P. and Teresa were sweet girls and wouldn't have minded them getting further, but I think they left at the appropriate times. I kind of wish Kim J. didn't settle for 4th in her alliance and made a move, but she got to the end anyways, so it worked out for her regardless.

Tom was hilarious, I thought he was extremely entertaining. Maybe not the most politically correct, but I think he'd be someone fun to have on your tribe, especially when there would be nothing to do out there.

I think Lex played a great game, so I am glad he and Tom get to return for All Stars, along with Ethan, whom I think deserved his win over Kim. Ethan didn't really play a great physical or strategic game, but had a lot of integrity and made the right allies, so I thought he was a good and deserving winner.

Overall, I thought it was a good season. It may have not been as pretty as some of the island locations, but this season kind of epitomizes the surviving aspect of Survivor, I thought. There water supplies were dirty watering holes that the elephants used as a toilet and besides the water tank that boron had for a while, that's all they had. Food was limited to mush and corn kernels, besides the occasional reward. Plus, the animals like the lions, elephants, giraffes, and bulls were so close to the camp, so that made the danger all the more real (besides the giraffe, which wasn't dangerous, lol)

[Yogurt Baron]

True story: when I watched the opening segment of the first episode of Borneo, I predicted a win for Richard Hatch, and then watched with glee as he dominated the game. When I saw the opening segment of Australia, I predicted a win for Tina Wesson, and then watched with glee as she played the opposite of Richard's game and still won. Africa? I loudly told everyone who'd listen and many, many people who wouldn't that the winner would be...Carl "Doc" Bilancione. He went out third, I turned off my TV, and then I didn't watch another episode of Survivor for eight years.

Having now watched the whole season: ...yeah. That theme music is sure idiosyncratic. Is it the furthest they've ever departed from the usual generic-tribal chantings?

Speaking of Lex...what a douche.

Agreed! He's smart, he's articulate, he knows how to work people...until they don't just lay down for him, at which point it's temper tantrum time. "Big Tom" bugs me - no reason in particular, I just find him off-putting - but that moment around F4 when Lex loses his mind about Big Tom plotting against him and then Tom gives a confessional all, "...there are sixteen people out here? And in order to win, I have to get fifteen people out? And Lex is one of them? So of course I'm against Lex winning? Because I'm for me winning? Only one person can win - can Lex count?", and I loved that perhaps more than anything from the first three seasons.

This wasn't the best season in terms of gameplay or personality or kangaroos - S2 had more kangaroos - but it's second only to Borneo in terms of balancing the development of the whole cast with the "here's the winner and here's his story" narrative. As much as Lex is the "strategist" and the showman, Africa is very clearly The Ethan Show---he gets a much meatier edit than his bookending winners, Tina and Vecepia. Yet it doesn't come at the expense of the other characters---I have strong senses of who all of these people are. It turns out that if there isn't some guy who comes in eighth that the producers have an inexplicable love for, it's possible to depict both the story of how the winner won and of who the other players are.

I was ready not to like Ethan---his perm creeps me out a little bit---but he won me over late in the game when he convinced Kim to stick with him because doing so would be best for "us". (I forget if this was at F4 and he was selling her on sticking with him over the other guys, or if it was slightly earlier and he was selling her on sticking with the guys instead of flipping to "T-Bird" and the other women.) The thing is, there is no "us" in the Survivor endgame---one of you's going to win a million dollars, the rest of you aren't---and whenever anyone late in the game starts talking about what's best for "us", they so obviously mean "what's best for me". Yet every few seasons, there's someone who's smooth enough to sell their opponents that it really is all about "us", and, hey, if I happen to be the one of us who gets the million and you don't, well, at least one of us won! The fact that Ethan pulled that off belies his "nice guy with a bad perm" reputation.

I do wish there'd been more discussion in the finale about why Kim chose Ethan over Lex. Was it a Colby-style "damn the torpedoes, I'm going to take the nicer of the two" (especially when it was fairly clear she'd lose either way)? Or was it more "Lex played a more strategic game, which the jury will respect, and I don't want to go up against that"?

the arrogance of Silas just drove me batty. That whole "you oldsters need to vote the way we want you to even though the 4 of us are not going to tell you which of you we're going to pick off"

This was bad, and the idea that an alliance of 4 = game over, give me the million right now, was even worse. As Probst told them at TC, you're pretty much screwed if you go into the merge with a strong 4 against an alienated fifth and a strong 5 on the other side. Why not go to one of the 3 "oldsters" and sell them on becoming your fifth? Isn't that really the only sane move in this situation?

Oh: and Frank. After the heartwarming Rich-Rudy not-in-a-homosexual-way bromance, it really pained me to watch that miserable, self-righteous, overbearing homophobe outlast Brandon. (Or am I wrong in assuming that homophobia was what motivated his bizarre vendetta against Brandon?)

I think that's enough for tonight. From your one fan: good night, Doctor Bilancione, wherever you are.

[Bob Sambob]

I do wish there'd been more discussion in the finale about why Kim chose Ethan over Lex. Was it a Colby-style "damn the torpedoes, I'm going to take the nicer of the two" (especially when it was fairly clear she'd lose either way)? Or was it more "Lex played a more strategic game, which the jury will respect, and I don't want to go up against that"

The first choice. She even said it in some postgame interviews: She knew she'd lose either way, so she wanted the nicer guy to win.

Oh: and Frank. After the heartwarming Rich-Rudy not-in-a-homosexual-way bromance, it really pained me to watch that miserable, self-righteous, overbearing homophobe outlast Brandon. (Or am I wrong in assuming that homophobia was what motivated his bizarre vendetta against Brandon?)

I don't know if I think that's really fair. I thought he was pretty annoying, too, but I never really thought Frank came off as a homophobe, in my humble opinion. Just conservative. Plus, remember, Brandon WAS in the overbearing youngster alliance with Silas and Lindsey, who were pretty lazy, cocky and immature. Just because Brandon was gay, does that mean he can't be an asshole, too? Because I kinda thought he came off as one. But let's say Frank was a homophobe ... I don't remember him having a VENDETTA against Brandon. If he had a vendetta against anyone, I'd say it was Lindsey and "let's take a knee" Coach Silas, who were the perceived leaders of the youngsters.

Edited by Bob Sambob, Dec 17, 2011 @ 4:22 AM.

[Yogurt Baron]

Oh, yeah, he definitely had reason not to like Brandon. I'm just thinking about the episode where they won the movie reward, and Frank justifies his dislike of Brandon by saying, "I'm old-fashioned," and generally seems not just to dislike Brandon from a game perspective, but to be actively disgusted by him. Now, this is the same guy who when playing "I never", said, "I never broke my word on a handshake," so he could easily have meant, "Brandon's a disrespectful, manipulative jerk who's not playing like a gentleman, and that goes against my old-fashioned ways of respecting others!", but I didn't read it that way.

It's funny that Rudy was allowed to be so expansive about his feelings about "the faggot", but then after that, the show got more PC.

[Bob Sambob]

Not to nitpick, but I don't think Rudy ever said faggot; he always referred to Rich as a queer. Granted, still in a derogatory way, but it's just not as loaded a word as the F word. I think the difference is that Rudy respected Rich as a person and Rich knew it. Rudy just used antiquated words, kinda like hearing your 95-year-old great-grandmother say "negro" or "colored" when you know damn well that they think they're saying it the PC way, only they're really not. Not defending it, but Rich explained it pretty well on the reunion show and subsequent interviews.

As for Frank, I'll have to check out Africa again. I don't remember him being outwardly homophobic, but he was definitely a jerk and socially awkward. I just thought Brandon was kind of a jerk, too.

[TheShowStopper]

Frank wasn't homophobic. His early criticisms pretty much included all of the younger crowd except for Silas. He would say things like "We need water or shelter.. blah blah and if you're useless you can get the hell out of my way. There are 2-3 individuals I wouldn't mind getting rid of right now." He never maliciously went after Brandon or his orientation. The whole issue was really jokey that entire season, with Tom also joining in on it and Brandon being a good sport and just living with it.

I actually liked Frank when the show aired, which was odd for me because I was only 15 or so. I liked Brandon too, but I understood Frank's annoyance with putting up with several people that were entirely useless around camp. It didn't help that I think Africa remains one of the toughest seasons in terms of the elements and outside of Silas none of the younger crowd seemed to do the slightest thing to help other than cook.

This wasn't the best season in terms of gameplay or personality or kangaroos - S2 had more kangaroos - but it's second only to Borneo in terms of balancing the development of the whole cast with the "here's the winner and here's his story" narrative. As much as Lex is the "strategist" and the showman, Africa is very clearly The Ethan Show yet it doesn't come at the expense of the other characters---I have strong senses of who all of these people are. It turns out that if there isn't some guy who comes in eighth that the producers have an inexplicable love for, it's possible to depict both the story of how the winner won and of who the other players are.

This is what makes Australia/Africa two of my favorite seasons even though modern strategy (at the time) was only just beginning and used by a couple of players. You got to know the dynamic of both tribes and exactly why people didn't like other people and why they made alliances with who they did. It's possible to describe in detail every single player of the season and they weren't portrayed in these one-dimensional ways that people have been these past 5 years especially.

Africa was also enjoyable because there were a lot of opportunities for suspense throughout the season. What would happen when Samburu finally had to go to TC for the first time? What would happen after the tribal swap when nu-Samburu had to go to TC with the 3-3 tie? What would happen once Lex figured Kelly was trying to flip?

I think had Brandon not made his blunder then the season would have been a lot less enjoyable down the streth, practically giving Teresa the win even though I enjoyed her. I thought Boran had many more players than Samburu, which seemed to be a collection of people just there for the experience. Glad it worked out the way it did.

I was pulling for Lex the whole time because I think he really was the driving force behind the power alliance's strategy, and he was the one having to win most of the key immunity challenges to keep things from being shaken up. Also, I always wished Kelly and Kim Powers could have returned in future seasons but too much time has passed for that to happen now.

Edited by TheShowStopper, Dec 18, 2011 @ 10:33 AM.

[scowl]

I'm up to what some believe is the pivotal episode of the season, when Brandon sides with Lex instead of his alliance and Kelly gets voted off. I felt slightly sorry for Lex after he let himself get "snaked" by Boston Rob in All-Stars, but Lord Almighty my opinion of him dropped after watching this.

He completely freaks at seeing his name written down twice and is obsessed with finding out "the snake" who wrote his name down. His paranoia gives him supernatural powers of deduction that even Coach would find ridiculous and uses them to conclude... it was Kelly. Yes, Kelly was the one! She's the "cancer" that is "killing the tribe", the tribe being Lex and Lex alone of course. He even apologizes to the camera for writing her name down "if I'm wrong"! That conditional apology was nearly an admission of hypocrisy to me. Maybe the person who wrote Lex's name was wrong.

This bit of paranoia would be topped a few seasons later when Rupert comes storming into the camp screaming like a mad man, "WHO wrote my name down? WHO WROTE MY NAME DOWN?" At least Lex attempted to act strategic about it.

This episode also made me feel that Ethan has to be one of the nicest Survivor winners ever. The trip to the African village (giving his luxury item away to a kid), the kindness he showed to his team mates after coming back, and his pleasant humility during this episode (in contrast to Lex's loony selfishness) made me want him win. And he did win so I can enjoy it.

As for Frank, I'll have to check out Africa again. I don't remember him being outwardly homophobic, but he was definitely a jerk and socially awkward.

My impression of him at this point is that he's shockingly unsocialized but not in an angry Randy sort of way. He hasn't acted mean or abrasive to anyone so far and the only homophobia he may have was only implied during the merge® when they suspected Frank voted for Brandon "on principle". We don't find out what that principle is or it really existed.

He reminds me of Stephanie Dill on Thailand who was withdrawn and always kept her distance from her tribe before she got voted off. Her submission tape never hinted she would be that way. She looked like she was going to be a bunch of wild crazy naked fun on it. Being on Survivor affects people in unexpected ways.

[Afterglows]

The reason that Lex was upset was because they all unanimously agreed to vote out Clarence at that TC. Either Teresa agreed to do that and lied about it and we didn't see it (I doubt it), or all the talking from alliance to alliance muddied who exactly was down for that plan and who wasn't.

I read that the idea was originally proposed by Kim/Ethan to Lex (as a holdover from the TC where Silas went home) and it made it's way from Ethan/Kim to Frank/Teresa, and then from Teresa to Kim/Brandon. At some point Teresa promises to Clarence that she won't vote him out for him stepping down and giving her the necklace, so when they go to TC and Lex gets two votes he was left to wonder who else would do it.

That was the reason for the confusion afterwards but I've never personally read what made him think that it was Kelly. If I had to guess it was a reaction to assuming that Brandon/Kim would have voted together, and Frank/Teresa would vote together, and obviously Lex/Tom are voting the same way as Kim/Ethan so there's really no one left but Kelly who isn't a part of any of the tight sub-alliances.

[scowl]

The reason that Lex was upset was because they all unanimously agreed to vote out Clarence at that TC.

OK, he was upset that someone wrote his name down who said they wouldn't. Yes, he should wonder about who that was and if it meant anything. In the end it meant nothing.

But Lex turned that little transgression into a personal crusade to expose the rat and to punish them, using words like "snake" and "cancer in the tribe" in interviews. He saw conspirators under every rock and around every bush. People were talking! What were they saying about him? He was sure it could only be a secret alliance forming to get rid of him and the mastermind had to be Kelly, because, uh well, uh, just vote off Kelly and we'll figure it out later.

He never figured out that it was Teresa because he was more interested in getting someone to pay for that crime than finding out who did it. Then he won a bunch of immunities and forgot about it completely. She played off of his insecurities just like Boston Rob would.

If there had really been a conspiracy against him, no one would have written his name down.

[BDArizona]

Oh: and Frank. After the heartwarming Rich-Rudy not-in-a-homosexual-way bromance, it really pained me to watch that miserable, self-righteous, overbearing homophobe outlast Brandon. (Or am I wrong in assuming that homophobia was what motivated his bizarre vendetta against Brandon?)

I did think Frank had a definite homophobic thing going on when I watched the season again a couple of months ago, and hated that he outlasted Brandon. As for Rich and Rudy, I didn't find that nearly as heartwarming as a lot of others did. His statement that he wouldn't hang out with Rich away from the game and that it wouldn't go over well with his real friends kind of told me that this was a game-only thing for Rudy. His constant use of "queer" was not used in the "let's take back this word" kind of way, but showed the nasty homophobia inside Rudy. The fact that he was willing to be friends with Rich within the game, but wouldn't want to associate with him outside made me hate Rudy. A lot. No amount of time spent with a gay man, any gay man, would make him abandon that homophobia. That pisses me off.

And I do think the "principle" thing had to do with Brandon's sexuality.

Edited by BDArizona, May 3, 2012 @ 6:06 PM.

[TDWT Kristen]

Brandon abandoned his alliance out of total hate for Frank, screwing the rest of his alliance as well as Frank in the process. Frank, meanwhile, stayed as loyal as he could. IMO, as hateful as Frank was, he deserved to outlast him.

[Tweeky]

Series three is my all time favourite Survivor series to watch.

Anyway:

Overall I liked Lex but his paranoid over reaction to having name written down did annoy me and I found his "Throat cutting" remarks a bit disturbing too.

As four young foursome (Lindsey, Kim, Silas and Brandon) their arrogant, cocky and entitled behaviour along with their laziness and disrespect for the older players really pissed me off. So I was glad when they were eliminated one by one and I couldn't stand Silas, not only was arrogant, manipulative and entitled he also came across to me as being sly and sleazy. I was glad when they did the switcharoo because Silas didn't last long afterwards. Oh, before I forget Pete on the current series (Survivor: Philippines) reminds me a lot of Silas.

Lindsey really started grate on me by the time she was voted out as her whining, complaining and cockyness really annoyed me. The last time I watched the show again when I saw her my thought was "Who cast Starbuck from Battlestar Galactica?"

Linda- well I was glad to see her go because her constant preachiness and going on about "Mother Africa" was simply annoying.

Diane - well I wasn't surprised to see her go and she annoyed me.

Jessie - well it was a shame she lasted only two episodes but she made the mistake of not drinking enough water and that made her sick plus she was a bit of a hottie.

Big Tom - he was and has been one of the most entertaining characters on Survivor and overall I liked him. Also his farming background was handy and I liked how he used to farm-skills to muckout and get a good source of water from their watering hole.

Frank - well he was a fairly straight forward man but I think his problem is that he was somewhat humourless and as Lex put it, sour in his general disposition. I don't think he was a homophobe just that Brandon arrogant, bitchy, obnoxious and entitled behaviour probably just pissed him off I know that I found Brandon to be increasingly obnoxious myself as the game progressed. However I did find it funny how Frank and Brandon one that RC with Brandon egging Frank on towards the end and the reward-watching Out of Afric IIRC was basically a date between Brandon and Frank which couldn't have been more ironic. i think as another poster pointed out Frank's main problem is that he's socially awkward.

Brandon - well both myself and others have commented on behaviour and unlikeable it made him, but I also thought he was unwittingly acting out a certain type of homosexual stereotype, the camp bitchy drama queen although he wasn't anywhere as bad as Colton.

Ethan - I liked how he played the game and seemed to keep his integrity intact and I was glad to see him win, he has to be one of the most deserving winners in Survivor, however I really wish he'd got a haircut before he went on the show.

Theresa overall I liked but I didn't like her little bit of treachery when voting Lex and how it backfired on to Kelly.

Kelly was overall a good player but I didn't like how she got screwed and I think it is shameful if one of your favourite pass-times is manipulating the opposite sex.

Clarence the bean-bandit annoyed me and I didn't think his lame excuse for opening the can of beans was well thought out and very transparent - it IMO caught up with him in the end as the other players hadn't forgotten the incident.

I can't of the other players names at the moment but we at least got to know all of them whereas some of the players in the current series, like Carter, are non-entities.

I found both the reward and immunity challenges to be both interesting and well thought out and the location in Kenya was quite an interesting one albeit very dangerous for the contestants. The reward challenge where they had to successfully attract the attention of an airplane with an SOS was an interesting one and I liked how old Kim's luxury item of paint was used to help win the challenge.

[Oholibamah]

As four young foursome (Lindsey, Kim, Silas and Brandon) their arrogant, cocky and entitled behaviour along with their laziness and disrespect for the older players really pissed me off.

Having watched the beginning of Africa again recently (after Kelly/Brandon are axed, the Pagonging gets very stale, and I hate the F4), I was surprised by how disrespectful I actually found the older members of Samburu, sans Teresa. The only real time I felt the young'ns were pushing it was with the Friendship Necklace bullshit (and even that was a clever gameplay move on Lindsey's part), but otherwise, I felt a lot of their problems were either a generational thing or a game thing.

The only people it felt personal with were from Carl, Frank and Linda. Carl and Frank especially seemed like they felt superior to the younger players, while Linda was out of line with her treatment of Lindsey.

Lindsey was irrational and brash, but I can't remember a time she was disrespectful or condescending. Silas was arrogant and stupid, but it was the older players who approached him for an alliance and got all uppity when he declined, and acted in a way that suggested they felt he was stupid for choosing the others over them. Kim and Brandon, especially, were seldom shown in the very early episodes, and besides potential laziness (although I think that's hard to gauge unless out there with them), never seemed nasty or entitled.

I think the young players made a lot of poor gameplay moves, but I never found them particularly awful, especially compared to players in recent seasons.

Edited by Oholibamah, Oct 30, 2012 @ 7:36 PM.

[ByaNose]

I will say that I did like land locked Africa. It was only the third season and the show was still in its heyday. I liked Ethan from the beginning and there was a girl named, Kim who was from the Philly area so I had my eye on her. The season as a whole wasn't my favorite but I still remember how entralled I was of Survivor. I still am but I was much younger then and the show was just so cool.....and, still is.

Edited by ByaNose, Oct 31, 2012 @ 6:35 PM.