129 replies to this topic

[TWoP Roxy]

From syfy.com:

Daniel Graystone engages in a dangerous game to try to draw out his daughters avatar.

[SDcat2009]

WOW! Talk about a completely awesome fake out.

I literally gasped when Zoebot shot Caesar..and thought you biotch!!

I no longer have sympathy for Zoebot.

[Edgeoforever]

Looks like both daughters grew up fast in their virtual versions.

[Kaffyr]

Yup, this is my personal definition of tragedy, or at least part of it. A person get *this close* to communication, and then does it absolutely 1000 percent wrong.

Daniel, all you had to do was stop looking at the situation as a bloody competition. You just say, "OK, I think you're (something of) my daughter. My belief won't depend on you admitting or submitting to me. I'm going to try to get you out of there. Oh, and by the way? I'm sorry."

But I don't think that's in your DNA. And it sure as hell isn't in your daughter's.

[Edgeoforever]

I literally gasped when Zoebot shot Caesar..and thought you biotch!!

I no longer have sympathy for Zoebot.

In all fairness, she knew they were blanks. But she is still her father's daughter - both sociopaths.

[Wrenchwind]

Did anybody else sort of hope that Amanda would have just ordered Serge to crush Vergis with his giant roller ball?

Also, oh my God, Caesar! D:

Augh, this fucking show! D:

[mustbekarma]

WOW! Talk about a completely awesome fake out.

I literally gasped when Zoebot shot Caesar..and thought you biotch!!

I no longer have sympathy for Zoebot.

I'm torn. On one hand, I loved how fudging nuts Daniel is. He knows his daughter is terrified of fire, and taunts her with it during the gun exercises. I was really pissed at him for abusing Zoe emotionally. Then he fudging sets her on fire! I wanted to deck Daniel do his head would make a satisfying thunk as it hit the ground. I was horrified during the Caesar scene. I really thought Daniel would go that far. I was transfixed during the scene-wondering how far Zoe would go to protect her identity. When Daniel revealed it was blanks, and seemed totally beaten, I was relieved and outraged that Zoe would go that far.

Then Zoe reveals through robot magic that she knew the bullets weren't real. In a way, I'm glad that Zoe knew that, because I don't want her to the kind of kid who would shoot a dog. In another way, I'm kind of annoyed, because the both knew the bullets were blank scenario kind of took the wind out of the sails of that awesome standoff.

Looks like both daughters grew up fast in their virtual versions.

That dame is so Tamara, isn't it?

[Isolde]

This was probably my favorite episode to date. Of, course having watched BSG, I knew this was going to all end in tragedy; but it really became clear tonight. Daniel has definitely created Frankenstein. And watching him actively test his "daughter" only to see how much it makes her completely turn off her human emotions is down right scary. And then there is Tamara in the V-word, who is so not the daughter that Joe Adama knows and loves, seemingly invincible.

Humanity/Humans have a lot to be scared of at this point.

Daniel has completely sold his soul and I'm not sure he wants it back at this point. Although, I love Stoltz's portrayal of the character....very complex. I could see how much he just wanted his daughter to communicate with him in any way. But it sure was brutal to watch.

Amanda's breakdown should be coming any moment know. How much more can fall apart for her. Although I'm sure Clarice's "betrayal" may come to light first. But her fall seems like it is going to be the most painful.

Caprica really is a decadent world. Reality and V-world with seemingly blurred lines. It looks like Joe started to realize this, however his quest to find his daughter seems to be taking him on his own dark path. It will be interesting to see how damaged he becomes befores he turns back. I have to imagine at the end of it all though, that he would end up in better shape/a better place than Daniel/Amanda or even Lacy at this point.

Edited by Isolde, Mar 19, 2010 @ 9:18 PM.

[Pandora3]

Wow, let's play frakked-up mind games with a half-ton super robot. Great plan, Daniel!

Even if they never aired another episode, I could totally see how humanity will shortly have millions of nutso toasters trying to wipe them out.

[mustbekarma]

Did anybody else sort of hope that Amanda would have just ordered Serge to crush Vergis with his giant roller ball?

Tomas Vergis just better run away as fast as he can. Daniel and Zoe are so out of his league, it isn't funny. Zoe's also in the body of a killer robot. I think it's funny how Vergis thinks of himself as a total badass, and he's got nothing on the Greystones.

You can tell Zoe is related to Daniel.

[shelleyl]

Zoe is so the teen, she's so mad at her father that everything just escalates. Of course Daniel is also deeply unsympathetic and has no idea how to deal with the situation other than just forcing his will upon it all. So, I totally buy this dysfunctional relationship and why they are doing what they're doing. The fake out with Cesar did make me gasp and I loved it if only because they played the moment but still had Cesar alive at the end.

I'm fascinated by the way they shot the Daniel/Robot scenes so he's always looking right in the eyes whether we see the robot or Zoe, it's an interesting move by the director.

[Bad Thoughts]

Sure, those were blanks, but that was no way to break out of the circle of violence (real or virtual). She even took a second shot.

Funny that the Tauron girl's insignia has a flower in it, the most un-Tauron of botanical forms.

Joseph may have been a bit one dimensional as all his lines amounted to some version of "where's my daughter." But I found his response to the riddle telling. He either cannot or refuses to understand the intergenerational conflict at the root of the riddle. Indeed, his final "response" was simply to cut through the philosophical BS that surrounded the riddle.

[mustbekarma]

Indeed, his final "response" was simply to cut through the philosophical BS that surrounded the riddle.

I rather kind of liked that. I have a feeling his Tauron roots are going to be showing more and more in New Cap City.

[Isolde]

Tomas Vergis just better run away as fast as he can. Daniel and Zoe are so out of his league, it isn't funny. Zoe's also in the body of a killer robot. I think it's funny how Vergis thinks of himself as a total badass, and he's got nothing on the Greystones.

You can tell Zoe is related to Daniel.

Daniel and Zoe take game theory to a whole new level. Both of them are ends totally justify the means, personalities. Add in Amanda's crazy and the genetic brilliance and this is going to be epic destruction.

I'm still trying to wrap my mind around the episode.

[Wrenchwind]

In addition to all of the awesomeness with Daniel and Zoe, let's also reflect on how nice it is to see Sam again.

At first I didn't really see why Joseph had trouble killing people in V-World, but then I thought back to last episode, when Herakles got his ass killed by Joseph's dumbness, and Joseph seemed to actually feel pretty bad about it, since it had sort of sunken in that the game is important to its participants. So even if he isn't killing people, like, for reals, he is still causing them distress, and was mindful of that instead of just going, "ha ha ha, get a life gamerzzz blam blam blam".

Still, if you're the guy who sits in a booth all day wearing a dumb bellhop costume, it's probably a relief when you get thrown out of New Cap City.

Also, Emmanuelle is so totally Evelyn.

[Bad Thoughts]

At first I didn't really see why Joseph had trouble killing people in V-World, but then I thought back to last episode, when Herakles got his ass killed by Joseph's dumbness, and Joseph seemed to actually feel pretty bad about it, since it had sort of sunken in that the game is important to its participants. So even if he isn't killing people, like, for reals, he is still causing them distress, and was mindful of that instead of just going, "ha ha ha, get a life gamerzzz blam blam blam".

The writers may have wanted to convince us that a thin line separates real violence and virtual violence. Joseph's difficulty and Zoe-A's ease at virtual violence really differentiates their characters, their missions.

Edited by Bad Thoughts, Mar 19, 2010 @ 9:36 PM.

[Nightmare Logic]

So, I totally buy this dysfunctional relationship and why they are doing what they're doing. The fake out with Cesar did make me gasp and I loved it if only because they played the moment but still had Cesar alive at the end

So yes to the tenth power. I still remember being a teenager and being scolded by my father and being stubborn as hell. Yes their situation is very very different. I wasn't in a robot body, my father didn't think I was a terrorist, and he didn't give me a gun a tell me to shoot the dog, but I can so see why Zoebot would shoot the dog (especially if she knew the gun had blanks.) Zoebot is basically a very angry teenager who was just set on fire by her father. Hell screw the dog, i'd have shot him, even if I knew there were blanks in the gun.

As for New Cap City the scene in the club was very well done. I like the fact that oe is getting deeper into the game and finding more and more clues to his daughters true nature and I see great horror in his future. Great horror and great tragedy then again this whole story is one big Tragedy.

Tomas Vergis is so playing games with Amanda, but just how many games? Is he just making her doubt her husband or is he behind her latest bought of crazy? Either one works for me. Can't wait for Amanda to go full on crazy.

Good episode.

<---Updated because when you use quotes you really need to put in a quote

Edited by Nightmare Logic, Mar 19, 2010 @ 9:39 PM.

[SDcat2009]

Indeed, his final "response" was simply to cut through the philosophical BS that surrounded the riddle.

This scene reminded me of William and Lee Adama, and how they both tried to cut through the BS often.

This is not going to end well for someone. Can't wait to find out whom.

[two rex]

Just a thought but maybe "Hey, I'm sorry I made you rip your arm off the other day." would have been a better approach than actual psychological war against the girl you kidnapped and trapped in a military robot against her will. But I love how in contrast Joe Adama's frak ups are just about him being a complete tourist in GTA: Caprica.

[EastCoastress]

I keep waiting for a lame filler episode. And I am repeatedly, pleasantly disappointed. Don't think I blinked nor breathed during this episode.

Mind frakking games galore. From the characters, to the characters, to us the viewers, in New Cap City and out. Well played on all fronts.

Yeah I covered my eyes in the dog scene. Daniel was looking completely out of his gourd, sweating, beaten....I figured, well, this is IT. He really is going that far. Zoebot will be forced to shoot her beloved dog to keep her trump card, but it will be THE final card for her; after all the games that day with her father, this will be the snapping point.

But it wasn't that she shot her dog that is making her snap. It's what Daniel has reduced her to. And we knew it was coming. Holy Greek tragedy.

I trusted this show wouldn't let a one dimensional theme of teen angst be the source of BSG. What Zoe (and Tamara, and more to follow) are experiencing goes so far beyond groundings and zits. It's frightening to watch unfold.

Dang freaky glowy eyes. Nice effect. There is no spoon, Joseph. Not yet anyway.

[shapeshifter]

Emmanuelle is so totally Evelyn.

Interesting idea, but I'm not seeing it.

That dame is so Tamara, isn't it?

I didn't see this either, but I can so get on board with it now that you mention it. Like when she got "grazed" and didn't derez?

Even if they never aired another episode, I could totally see how humanity will shortly have millions of nutso toasters trying to wipe them out.

They did really explain that, didn't they?

Just a thought but maybe "Hey, I'm sorry I made you rip your arm off the other day." would have been a better approach than actual psychological war against the girl you kidnapped and trapped in a military robot against her will.

Having 3 daughters who are not long out of their teens I can forgive some of Daniel's frustration with her, but you are so totally right that he should have enough parenting skills to try a better approach. Especially since she's not even giving him any back talk. I guess he doesn't really think of her as his daughter? Talk about one conflicted dude.

[mysticowl]

Also, Emmanuelle is so totally Evelyn.

I think so, too. I hope it's not Tamara, I like Tamara as a mysterious figure, rarely seen, but oh so sought after.


I honestly thought the show as going to kill Caesar, I'm surprised it didn't go there. At first, I actually thought Daniel was going to tell Zoe to shoot him. I'm not sure how I feel about Zoe knowing they were blanks. I think I agree with the comment above that it "took the wind out of the sails" of the confrontation. On the other hand, it's kind of the opposite of the arm-ripping scene. In tonight's episode, it was fake and they both knew it was fake. In that one, it was real and Daniel didn't know that it was. I wish the episode allowed for some way to show us that Daniel remembers he put Zoe through that "test."

[EastCoastress]

I love the idea that Emanuelle is Tamara. Was that mentioned last week? I missed that episode thread, but figured it was discussed (I thought E looked like T from the get-go). ** Edited to add-- some of E's reactions in New Cap City, were interesting...like her rather emotional "You think I look like this in the real world" or some such. Then, at the end, on the wall with all Tamara's symbols "Looks like she's found her home; maybe you should go back to yours". Just interesting.

And the idea that she was guiding her father through V-world, all while he is looking for his daughter....more games--which would fit into all the mind games going on. That she can't/won't let him see/find her, much like Zoe is battling the issue with Daniel--the parallel is strong despite differing origins.

Perhaps Tamara doesn't know what persona she is/has (if we are to assume she is E), and doesn't even recognize her name/father any longer.

Who hired Emanuelle? (removed last part here...made no sense)

Edited by EastCoastress, Mar 19, 2010 @ 10:43 PM.

[ReflexOne]

Esai Morales has a handsome enough face that the cheesy power-up eyes looked good.

"Oh hai, Sam! Teach me how you kill people so I can learn to pwn leets in this video game, plz. Kthx."

You know, I wonder what the hell Sam would think of the New Cap City. Or if he'd be one of those people who goes home from work and is all "I don't want to do ANYTHING on the computer that resembles my work." Maybe Sam reads the equivalent of trashy romance novels online.

Vergis messing with Amanda for anything other than "I shall hurt the thing my enemy loves" value seems ... low, to me. At first I thought they were going to try to resurrect the affair-that-never-happened, but I think Vergis is following his stated plan, just altering tactics. Not sure what else to say on that point.

Oh, and I find that I LOVE Clarice actually giving what seems like caring advice to Amanda. It's like she really does want to be Amanda's friend, and then OH! She remembers she's supposed to be using Amanda for information. Silly sleeper agents.

I think others have summed up the absolute horror of Daniel's "experiments" with Zoe. No shooting dogs, Daniel! I mean, geez. When he was preparing to set the Cylon on fire, and was blah blah blahing about how Zoe was weak and childish, running away from the world, I just kept thinking "she's a hell of a lot stronger than you're giving her credit for, you nit. This won't work!" And all he's doing is giving her more and MORE reasons to steel up.

I would have had serious commitment issues with this show if they had actually shot the dog.

Back to the Adamas. Does anyone else here really kinda wish Joseph would bring Sam on board and they'd go cut a swath through New Cap City together? I realize this is supposed to be Joe's journey and all that ... but c'mon. I wanna see some brothers in action. With kicky background music.

Oh yeah, and speaking of background music ... the music from this episode was grand.

[RemotePilot]

Also, Emmanuelle is so totally Evelyn.

Watching it the second time, when she said, "someone who's being paid to help you," that's what hit me too.

I'm with Jacob, just waiting for some Lacy kickassery. These little interstitial scenes with Zoebot and Lacy get more intense each time. Last one: you better get me out of here or I'ma kill my dad. But hey, no pressure.

Everyone is just fracking cracking up

[Kaffyr]

ReflexOne;

"Oh hai, Sam! Teach me how you kill people so I can learn to pwn leets in this video game, plz. Kthx."

Thanks for giving me the first and undoubtedly only out-loud laugh I had connected to this episode. On the other hand, Sam looked supremely uncomfortable talking to Joe about how he deals with killing. (And that's the first hint we've gotten so far that Sam's possibly not as cool with his job as he makes out.)

Come to think of it, Joe and Zoe share a character trait that I think will completely screw them over: the idea of someone asking for help from someone extremely close, someone who could actually understand them emotionally and who might actually want to help them because of that, appears to be foreign to them. Yes, Zoe has Lacey, but that doesn't seem to be the same thing. The brother-brother and father-daughter relationship seems to me to have a great potential that both characters are ignoring.

(And Lacey seems to be turning into a sort of Cassandra; she's the one who knows the right thing to do, and tells them, but no one will listen to her, or do it.)

And on a completely superficial note, I noticed that by the time Joe appeared in the Riddle Club, he'd already altered his hat from quasi-homberg back to fedora. Man's got his own style.

mysticowl;

I honestly thought the show as going to kill Caesar, I'm surprised it didn't go there.

I completely expected that, and was all wrapped up in a little ball on the couch, waiting for it.

Also, I have to salute Eric Stoltz for the layers of emotional response he showed in his relationship with Zoe. He had flashes of absolute emotional brilliance and acuity, and then completely de-rezzes back into self-justification and rage and cosmically huge misunderstanding. I think the only person he truly connects with is Amanda, even though I think he loves Zoe just as much as he loves Amanda.

Edited by Kaffyr, Mar 19, 2010 @ 10:31 PM.

[AngelKitty]

That was intense. I really don't know who I was rooting for, besides Caesar, in that shooting scene. Part of me wants Daniel to know and part of me realizes Zoe is right, he will use her, he has to. It's just so sad.

[EastCoastress]

Oh yeah, and speaking of background music ... the music from this episode was grand.

Indeed. Some hauntingly clear notes of BSG in there tonight.

I had this weird moment when Adama was knocking on his door in New Cap, and we heard this gruff tone answer (then saw only a part of the man's face), that it was Saul from BSG. I was like...Tigh?

Then I reminded myself that this isn't Season 6 of Lost, just Caprica.

Edited by EastCoastress, Mar 19, 2010 @ 10:41 PM.

[benteen]

Next week is the season finale? WTF?!

Excellent. Every storyline is coming together nicely.

Daniel is a sick, sick man. I thought poor Caesar was dead too. Glad that wasn't the case. Zoe is so her father's daughter. The problem is, we learned a while ago that Daniel wasn't the best father and this shows tonight. Maybe if he tried a gentler strategy and, gasp, apologized, Zoe-A might have said something back to him. But he arrogantly has to impose his will on everything, even his own (robot) daughter.

Terrific performance turned in here by Eric Stoltz. Nice little bit with Vergis showing up at the end also.

Good stuff on the Joe Adama front as well. That hesitation in the beginning was perfect. Joe is a mob layer but has never done it himself. The crossdresser in Mysteries was a pretty good character too.

When Joe knocked on "his" apartment in the VWorld, it sounded like Tigh's voice calling back. Now that would be funny, Tigh in VWorld. It would go something like this...

"YEAAAAAAH!"

I had this weird moment when Adama was knocking on his door in New Cap, and we heard this gruff tone answer (then saw only a part of the man's face), that it was Saul from BSG. I was like...Tigh?

Just read this last post. Looks like we were thinking the same thing. That would have been awesome. Tigh opens up the door and goes "You're not the old man. You sure look like him though." *SLAM*

About what Sam Adama would think of this whole VWorld business, I think he would be disgusted. He does strike me as one for games, his joke on Joe a few weeks ago notwithstanding. Maybe wouldn't appreciate his "business" being treated like a game for the amusement of teenagers. I think he would be most disgusted though with the whole Tamara thing since he's immersed in the Tauron culture and has let his niece go.

[Pandora3]

I would have had serious commitment issues with this show if they had actually shot the dog.

I agree. It's sad I can watch all sorts of mayhem on every channel, but spent 20 minutes cringing at "Russian Roulette---Starring Caesar!" Of course, this might say more about me than the show. Where do I sign up to be a Greystone?

And further yet, what does it say about this show when we all think they're really gonna do it? They sure aren't afraid to pull the trigger, both figuratively and literally. Ah, Caprica. I love how you make me hate you sometimes.