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Relationships on Fringe: "Do You Think She'll Call Me Dad?"


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#1

krissy24514

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Posted Mar 18, 2010 @ 2:42 AM

Was there something between Nina and Walter? Is there currently something between Nina and Broyles? Olivia and John, Nina and William, Walter and Jean, and of course, Olivia and Peter? Just 'cos it's Science Fiction doesn't mean there can't be smoochies, right?

Thoughts?

#2

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Posted Mar 18, 2010 @ 8:56 PM

Well, there's something going on between Nina and "Phillip" Broyles which somehow explains everything that was odd about them on season 1, they were indeed on a relationship.

#3

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Posted Mar 18, 2010 @ 9:26 PM

You know, I don't think there really was anything going on between Nina and Broyles. I mean, we had one little hint that there may be something there, and then nothing for a long time. So I think it was just a little tease. I think it's more likely there's something going on between Nina and William.

I'm also curious about the woman that Peter met up with in the first season. I can't remember her name, she was the one whose boyfriend Peter decked. The reason why I ask is, I'm wondering what the point was, in showing us all that?

#4

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Posted Mar 18, 2010 @ 11:38 PM

You know, I don't think there really was anything going on between Nina and Broyles. I mean, we had one little hint that there may be something there, and then nothing for a long time. So I think it was just a little tease. I think it's more likely there's something going on between Nina and William.

Don't get this the wrong way but Nina had quite the reputation back in the day so it wouldn't surprise me if she would've had something with either William Bell or Walter Bishop, the same way she has/had something with Broyles during their involvement with Fringe Division.

Edited by just watching2, Mar 18, 2010 @ 11:40 PM.


#5

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Posted Mar 31, 2010 @ 4:33 PM

They did tease us with that kiss between Broyles and Nina, didn't they? And then nothing. I assume it's one of the many unanswered questions that we'll eventually get an answer to...

#6

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Posted Apr 1, 2010 @ 8:59 AM

Peter/Olivia have been staring deeply into each other's eyes since the pilot, but here's what "Fringe" producers say about a romance:


[quote]Are you really gunning for a romance between Peter and Olivia? We always thought they’d be better off apart.
J.H. WYMAN: I think your views are shared by a lot of people. I personally agree – if there’s ever going to be a romantic notion, it needs to be earned. We think we have a great dynamic, but…
JP: …Having said that, at the beginning of the next episode, they’re in bed together [Laughs].
JHW: But we hear you. We don’t want to do anything that’s not earned. I think that the end of the season will tip the hand to a lot of revelations about their relationships and who they are.
JP: We think the best television shows are family dramas masquerading as something else, which is what this program is. All of our main players and even the ancillary ones are these broken people who are being brought together by this insane, crazy adventure they find themselves in. By looking through the looking glass, they’re finding themselves and who they belong with. We’re going to remain true to that. That doesn’t mean that they don’t harbor feelings for each other. They might just not be romantic feelings.
JHW: This is more of a journey about the characters’ self-actualization, and in those existential crises, you look to other people to –
So wait, are you saying they could just end up being, say, brother and sister?
JHW: No, we’re not saying that.
JP: It probably wouldn’t shock us if we found out that they were, but no. Peter’s from the other side. Olivia’s from here. By the end of the season, things will have developed a lot.[/quote]


full article: http://hollywoodinsi...yman-interview/

Edited by fedorafadares, Apr 1, 2010 @ 9:01 AM.


#7

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Posted Apr 1, 2010 @ 9:24 AM

As a Peter/Olivia shipper-type, I was encouraged that the fear Olivia was feeling that triggered her abilities in Jacksonville were acknowledged by the writers/producers (in some of the Fringe 101 materials) as being her fear about her feelings for Peter (not her fear for the building that was going to disappear at any second and kill hundreds of people). I thought what she was afraid of was pretty ambiguous when I watched the episode.

#8

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Posted Apr 4, 2010 @ 3:18 PM

It makes sense considering her relationship with John Scott. In a way the stakes are even higher with Peter because of the dysfunctional family unit they have going on with Walter: they already have the child, a home and a routine they are commitment to. As amazing as things could get if this works out, it would be terrible for them if they don't.

Edited by just watching2, Apr 4, 2010 @ 3:19 PM.


#9

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Posted Apr 6, 2010 @ 5:12 PM

I'm also curious about the woman that Peter met up with in the first season. I can't remember her name, she was the one whose boyfriend Peter decked. The reason why I ask is, I'm wondering what the point was, in showing us all that?

I think her name was Tess. Yeah, that was interesting. I actually liked that scene a lot; considering it had a character who was a complete stranger to the audience, it had a really interesting feel to it.

#10

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Posted Apr 13, 2010 @ 4:00 PM

In "Olivia. In the Lab. With the Revolver," Peter was happier than we've seen him. In every scene, he was grinning, joking, light-hearted. He's confident and happy. He's got it for her; he knows she has it for him, too. That kind of confident anticipation about where a good thing is going infected every part of his character.

Everyone sees it (Nina, Walter, her sister) but Olivia.

I think the scene in the car where he talked about the reason for Olivia being awkward toward him was a gracious move to let Olivia off the hook for feelings she's not ready to admit having. She told him she was scared, but she still moved in for that kiss. He knows the feelings are there, though, hence the teasing about being on her speed dial.

I hope Olivia can admit to Peter how she feels before this all blows up. Or at least before they meet her counterpart in the alternate universe. That AltOlivia might not be so scared!

#11

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Posted Apr 15, 2010 @ 10:27 PM

I don't know, Olivia is so guarded that I think Peter will know the truth about his dad before he could even get a hint as to what her feelings for him really are.

#12

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Posted May 24, 2010 @ 11:49 AM

On the Peter/Olivia relationship:

I absolutely love how the writers have handled this.

Right from the Pilot, there was an attraction between them and a recognition of an equal in the other. Peter's expression when they first meet is "hey, pretty lady," then sobers pretty quickly when he realizes she not just eye candy.

Over time, this base attraction on Peter's part became real admiration of Olivia's character and ability -- a friendship developed and deepened.

Olivia, from the start, was intrigued by the boy-genius, but saw Peter for what he was. And as Peter matured into his caregiving role, she came to rely on his care, too.

I think the writers avoided a shallow "chemical attraction" kind of romance between Peter and Olivia and developed a deeper, more believable connection between two equals. I think it's the reason the show won't suffer from their fully realized relationship. Because there's been more than superficial attraction from the start, a more sound interaction between them, the plot-lines won't suffer from a dreaded "there's a monster in the next room, but let's make out" kind of fate.

In short, there's more to them than their love. (cheese, anyone?)

I also love how their romantic connection is playing a role in fleshing out their characters.

Some fans have complained that Peter’s character seems less than complete, but I choose (maybe delusionally) to see this as part of the point: he’s a mystery and a man in transition. The relationship he's formed with Olivia has influenced his character, and it shows, even in the finale with the, “I like your hair better” line:

After trying to turn his back on his recent past — trying to deny it was real — Peter got momentarily caught up in seeing the familiar and couldn’t repress his attraction to Olivia’s double. By complimenting her, Peter was trying to save face after making a social gaffe by staring so intensely and telling her she reminded him of someone. But more importantly, he was reasserting his denial that his relationship with Olivia and his feelings for her were real. The primal attraction in that situation also sent Peter back to his "hey, pretty lady" ways, and for a second he was trying to charm a confident woman and test the waters a bit from an attraction standpoint.

He was covering his tracks, refuting his affections for our Olivia and moving on all at the same time, all in that moment.

And for Olivia's part in the finale, I think seeing her alternate self in an intimate relationship jarred her. I don't think she fully realized the power of her feelings for Peter until that moment and once she did, she put them to use. In maybe her most direct moment, she told Peter he was in danger, that she was here to save him and that she loved him. Powerful words, persuasive words for Peter to hear from the person he trusts most.

The fact that she was reaching out to him after he put it on the line in "Jacksonville" was key, here.

Peter knew what he felt for her was reciprocated, but she wasn't ready to make that move. Now Olivia's ready and it's on...

...except that it's not.

#13

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Posted May 24, 2010 @ 5:54 PM

After trying to turn his back on his recent past — trying to deny it was real — Peter got momentarily caught up in seeing the familiar and couldn’t repress his attraction to Olivia’s double. By complimenting her, Peter was trying to save face after making a social gaffe by staring so intensely and telling her she reminded him of someone. But more importantly, he was reasserting his denial that his relationship with Olivia and his feelings for her were real. The primal attraction in that situation also sent Peter back to his "hey, pretty lady" ways, and for a second he was trying to charm a confident woman and test the waters a bit from an attraction standpoint.

He was covering his tracks, refuting his affections for our Olivia and moving on all at the same time, all in that moment.


I agree with a lot of what you said, fedorafadares, though to me, Peter's conversation with AltOlivia was not a reversion to form. His conversation with the AltOlivia shed some light on something that has been bothering me a long time about the romantic component of Peter and Olivia's relationship--Peter, at times, seems as uninterested and guarded about Olivia as she sometimes is about him. I took some of Peter's comments to AltOlivia, especially the one about Olivia being "darker around the eyes" and seeming "haunted" as insight into his personal reasons NOT to move forward with a romantic relationship. As much as Peter admires and respects Olivia for her goodness and dedication, as much as he might support her in her attempts to "right some imaginary wrong," I think he is conflicted by the idea of being with someone who has been emotionally damaged in some ways (maybe because he is afraid of damaging her further or maybe because he feels he is not up to being with someone so driven to fight the good fight). To see Olivia (AltOlivia) as she could be if she were unburdened of some of that damage must have been a jarring thing for Peter and I think he revealed too much and then tried to cover it up by killing the observation. I don't think it was flirting so much as a "too serious....doesn't matter anyway; I don't really know this person..." moment for Peter.

#14

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Posted May 24, 2010 @ 6:50 PM

As much as Peter admires and respects Olivia for her goodness and dedication, as much as he might support her in her attempts to "right some imaginary wrong," I think he is conflicted by the idea of being with someone who has been emotionally damaged in some ways (maybe because he is afraid of damaging her further or maybe because he feels he is not up to being with someone so driven to fight the good fight).


Or maybe both of those, with a dollop of guilt and discomfort knowing that a lot of that damage was inflicted by Walter. Walter ruined both of their childhoods in different ways--by experimenting on Olivia, by yanking Peter over into the "wrong" universe and then raising him in a relationship tainted with bitterness and grief and guilt and distance. Peter chose to flee as soon as he was old enough; Olivia absorbed some more trauma by trying to defend her mother and kill her abusive stepfather when she was, what, in the third freaking grade? They're both understandably reserved, wary, damaged souls...it makes them a tragi-perfect pairing, somehow.

And ironically, they're drawn together to "parent" the now fragile, damaged Walter, the man responsible for so much of their own pain. It's the organic growth of that "weird little family" that kick-started my dormant shippiness...that, and I love a tragedy-strewn, doomed, Gothic romance above all else, gloomy fangirl that I am. I'm in...and I fully expect it to get plenty worse before it gets better. Ahhhh, swoony misery: bring it, J.J.

#15

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Posted May 24, 2010 @ 7:02 PM

Or maybe both of those, with a dollop of guilt and discomfort knowing that a lot of that damage was inflicted by Walter.


That's what makes this show most fascinating to me. It has the inter-character dramatic smoldering of The X-Files, except it's not Mulder/Scully, it's a three-way entanglement.

Two scenes from the first season stood out for me, where all three characters were in the room together alone (no Astrid, etc) and very dramatic, backstory stuff was unfolding. First, in "The Arrival" (I think) where Walter was in the interrogation room and he and Peter were getting very very testy, then everything went beyond the point of no return when Walter brought up Peter's mother. Cut over to Olivia and the look on her face is "Oh no, this just went nuclear."

Even more intense was in "Bad Dreams" in the motel room when Olivia admitted she might have been experimented on, and Walter put his hand on her face and she just shrank away in disgust. And you could see Peter picking up on all this and being nervous and scared about hearing what he knew in his heart to be true, that his father experimented on children. (He knew, but didn't want to know.)

Walter desperately wants Peter and Olivia to be together, which is charming in some ways but kinda weird in others. The whole "happy family" vibe... but there are still SO many issues.

#16

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Posted May 24, 2010 @ 8:28 PM

He was covering his tracks, refuting his affections for our Olivia and moving on all at the same time, all in that moment.


I loved that. I also got the feeling he was toying with the hope that there was a replacement Olivia in this new universe. And then he realized, as he was describing Olivia to alt-Olivia, that he was just kidding himself and that the Olivia he knew was gone. He seemed pretty chastened at the end when he abruptly terminated their conversation.

And ironically, they're drawn together to "parent" the now fragile, damaged Walter, the man responsible for so much of their own pain. It's the organic growth of that "weird little family" that kick-started my dormant shippiness...that, and I love a tragedy-strewn, doomed, Gothic romance above all else, gloomy fangirl that I am. I'm in...and I fully expect it to get plenty worse before it gets better. Ahhhh, swoony misery: bring it, J.J.


Hee! I'm either completely anti-ship about a pairing that a show creates or I fall for it 100%. I fully expected after Season 1 to be the former, but somehow they have snuck the romance in in such a way that surprisingly it turns out to be the latter. I think it has something to do with how angst-less the relationship has been so far. All the angst comes from outside them, and when they are together it is either them supporting one another or having alcohol-fueled fun (some much needed joy in both their lives). I hope the writers don't change that dynamic by starting to throw in a lot of relationship obstacles. I'd much rather they were not together because Olivia is stuck in a prison in the alternate universe than due to some ridiculous love triangle. Of course, I'd really just love them together, but shows never do that.

#17

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Posted May 24, 2010 @ 9:08 PM

Well, as a generally non-shippy type viewer myself, I'll come out and say it -- forcing the two of them to be in separate universes after having declared their love? Awesome romantic potential. Now that is what sci-fi is for!

It surely won't last all season, but still...

#18

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Posted May 25, 2010 @ 8:13 AM

They're both understandably reserved, wary, damaged souls...it makes them a tragi-perfect pairing, somehow.


They're both, in different but complementary ways, rootless people. Olivia was a military brat, who must have moved around a lot (the reason she was in Jacksonville), as well an abuse survivor. So in both the geographic and emotional sense, it's been very hard for her to find a true home. From what we know of her career, the liaison job in Boston was the most recent in a career that probably continued the running; she was just finding roots, the friendship with Charlie, the love affair with John. Then John was ripped away from her too.

And Peter? While he had one 'physical' home from the time of his abduction, never felt right there, always felt off, and having his parents' relationship and psyches disintegrate in front of him didn't help. So he ran away, and never stopped, until Olivia found him in Baghdad. When he finds out the truth, what does he do? Reverts. He runs again. Because when you run, you can't put down the roots that will inevitably hurt you.

When Olivia pleads with Peter to come back, it's not really to a specific place , but to "with me". These two damaged people may not yet be ready for the kids and the dog, the white picket fence, or some sort of settled life. But for right now, home is each other. (Well, once they're reunited, of course...)

Edited by GoldfishGirl42, May 25, 2010 @ 8:14 AM.


#19

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Posted May 25, 2010 @ 8:51 AM

Walter desperately wants Peter and Olivia to be together, which is charming in some ways but kinda weird in others.



I agree with this. I think Walter is desperate because he knows more than he lets on. On the surface, I think Walter sees that Olivia is good for Peter and vice-versa, but there was one scene in the first episode of this season, when they believe Olivia was brain dead, that has stayed with me:

Walter went into the room to examine her, realized the brain-dead diagnosis was correct. He apologized to "Olive" and rested his head on her abdomen in that classic "listen to an unborn baby" pose. Taken to an extreme, it was like he was saying goodbye to his potential grandchildren.

I think Walter knows the significance of Peter being with Olivia is larger than just the happiness of his son and a fond friend.

#20

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Posted May 25, 2010 @ 10:06 AM

He apologized to "Olive" and rested his head on her abdomen in that classic "listen to an unborn baby" pose. Taken to an extreme, it was like he was saying goodbye to his potential grandchildren.


Which kinda makes me wonder if the key to knitting back the universes is (someday) going to be a half-hereworld, half-altworld bundle of joy...

#21

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Posted May 25, 2010 @ 5:03 PM

Walter desperately wants Peter and Olivia to be together, which is charming in some ways but kinda weird in others.


I always thought one element of Walter's shippiness was him recognizing that Olivia was the reason Peter had stayed, and seeing a relationship with her as ensuring that Peter wouldn't leave him again. Especially given the bomb Walter always knew had to go off with the secret he was keeping, I could see him putting a lot more hope and trust in Peter's relationship with Olivia than in his own relationship with his son.

I also got the feeling he was toying with the hope that there was a replacement Olivia in this new universe. And then he realized, as he was describing Olivia to alt-Olivia, that he was just kidding himself and that the Olivia he knew was gone. He seemed pretty chastened at the end when he abruptly terminated their conversation.


I like how you put this. I think the possibility that he might be able to replace Olivia with a new version had at least crossed his mind when he saw AltOlivia and that their scene in his apartment is him realizing the foolishness of that idea. But other than maybe the initial staring, I really didn't see him trying too hard to make a connection with her. I thought his comment about liking AltOlivia's hair better was entirely about his resentment towards Olivia, and not about complimenting AltOlivia at all. Just before he says it there's a beat where his face hardens, as if acknowledging Olivia’s existence had reminded him of what led him there in the first place; I thought claiming he liked AltOlivia better was a way of both hardening himself against those feelings and dismissing their source by minimizing Olivia's value. It actually made me feel really sorry for him, since it seemed like at least with respect to Olivia, more than anything else he's just incredibly hurt, and, as someone who doesn't establish relationships with people, has no idea how to deal with having finally opened himself up to someone enough to do so and having gotten burned so badly as a result. In the scene at his apartment, hurt and anger have been replaced by sadness; and once again, he can't keep this from showing through. Both times he ends up being a little too honest and revealing a little too much to a total stranger. I thought it was a really good glimpse of where he was emotionally, actually, because you have to figure that Peter the conman is usually a little better about keeping his emotions in check, and with AltOlivia he was just showing his cards every step of the way.

#22

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Posted May 25, 2010 @ 5:16 PM

Nice interview with Josh Jackson and John Noble specifically on the subject of Peter and Walter's relationship (which is why I'm posting it here):

http://www.scifinow....kson-interview/

Not sure when this was done but seems to be end of this season. Warning: some might consider certain comments in the interview to be spoilerish.

#23

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Posted May 27, 2010 @ 9:04 PM

When Olivia pleads with Peter to come back, it's not really to a specific place , but to "with me". These two damaged people may not yet be ready for the kids and the dog, the white picket fence, or some sort of settled life. But for right now, home is each other. (Well, once they're reunited, of course...)

Oddly enough, I think that's precisely why they are so perfect for each other: because neither one of them is ready for this. They are the only normal thing in each other's lives, their picket fence is this Fringe lab, their dog is an experimental cow and their only child is a mad scientist, this ...thing that wouldn't work for anybody else in any other way is exactly what they need right now. They need one another and they are perfect just the way they are.

Walter desperately wants Peter and Olivia to be together, which is charming in some ways but kinda weird in others.

I think it's because Walter acts like a child who deperately wants his parents not to get a divorce, it's charming because I could relate to it and it's weird because he's supposed to be the parent ...only thing is he's too damaged to know how.

Edited by just watching2, May 27, 2010 @ 9:05 PM.


#24

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Posted May 27, 2010 @ 9:16 PM

I think it's because Walter acts like a child who deperately wants his parents not to get a divorce, it's charming because I could relate to it and it's weird because he's supposed to be the parent ...only thing is he's too damaged to know how.


Very true (about Walter being a child and Peter and Olivia his "parents") - but there's also a slightly more sinister brand of weirdness to it, too, and that is that Walter, in a way, "created" Peter and Olivia. At least, he did artificial things to them that created their current lives and personas... he whisked Peter out of the other world, cured him (and did God knows what else - maybe nothing, but they're sure hinting that we don't know everything yet), and recreated his "son" out of this other boy; and of course did drug experiments on Olivia and helped William Bell turn her into someone with special powers. They are his children who are NOT his children.

What mad scientist wouldn't want to see his two greatest creations "get together," as it were?

Don't get me wrong - Walter is neither a good little child nor an evil towering parent. He's got elements of both. And that's what he's such a brilliant character. And why the Walter/Peter/Olivia triangle is so brilliant.

As for Peter and Olivia's bond, it's anything but forced, because within the parameters of this story about the mad scientist, they are not only fated, but in a way, *created* to be together. (And if we the audience desire that, doesn't that make us sort of complicit with that side of Walter's mad scientist nature?) Fortunately, emotionally it makes sense: their circumstances are so strange and sad, that all they really have is each other to "belong" to. Anyhow, that is what the writers are selling, and I find it extremely buy-able.

(Right about now, though, someone always comes along who sniffs "But that's not a healthy relationship." Well, healthy is great in real life, but boring in the context of a magical fantasy - which is what this show is. The way to healthy relationships is for the characters to uncover the truth about who and what they are - not change who they are to fit some "healthy" script, because the past can't be changed. And that is what the writers seem to be unfolding.)

Edited by jipijapa, May 27, 2010 @ 9:33 PM.


#25

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Posted May 27, 2010 @ 10:01 PM

there's also a slightly more sinister brand of weirdness to it, too, and that is that Walter, in a way, "created" Peter and Olivia. At least, he did artificial things to them that created their current lives and personas... he whisked Peter out of the other world, cured him (and did God knows what else - maybe nothing, but they're sure hinting that we don't know everything yet), and recreated his "son" out of this other boy; and of course did drug experiments on Olivia and helped William Bell turn her into someone with special powers. They are his children who are NOT his children.

What mad scientist wouldn't want to see his two greatest creations "get together," as it were?


Such a good point, and one I hadn't really thought of before. Maybe his desire to have them be together is also a desire to make up for the ways in which he has destroyed their lives by having something good come out of what he's done.

#26

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Posted May 27, 2010 @ 10:09 PM

Right about now, though, someone always comes along who sniffs "But that's not a healthy relationship."


Oh, I don't know - I define unhealthy relationships as ones where the people involved make each other as unhappy and miserable as they make each other happy, and when they would be better off apart than with each other because they only bring chaos into each other's lives. Peter and Olivia are each other's oasis. The circumstances of their lives are bizarre, their relationship isn't.

#27

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Posted May 27, 2010 @ 10:29 PM

he whisked Peter out of the other world, cured him (and did God knows what else - maybe nothing, but they're sure hinting that we don't know everything yet),


True, true. I was rewatching some early season 1 eps today, and it was a) jarring and poignant to see how combative and awful Walter and Peter were together early on. And b) there was a exchange in "In Which We Meet Mr. Jones" where Walter remembers testing Peter's electricity tolerance (unusually low). Peter, reminded of this, recalls Walter experimenting on him. I think that's also why he very much plants himself on Olivia's side when the Cortexiphan secrets come out. But the question is, was that post-abduction, pre-asylum Walter doing that? Or Walternate? Or both?

and recreated his "son" out of this other boy; and of course did drug experiments on Olivia and helped William Bell turn her into someone with special powers. They are his children who are NOT his children.
*****

"Right about now, though, someone always comes along who sniffs "But that's not a healthy relationship."

Oh, I don't know - I define unhealthy relationships as ones where the people involved make each other as unhappy and miserable as they make each other happy, and when they would be better off apart than with each other because they only bring chaos into each other's lives. Peter and Olivia are each other's oasis. The circumstances of their lives are bizarre, their relationship isn't.


It seems like it should be semi-incestuous, except it's not. It's like, well, a much more healthy version of Starbuck and Apollo from Nu!BSG. (With Walter as Admiral Adama....oh dear.) But anyway, they've got these odd/awful childhoods, that no one else by rights should be able to understand. But they can understand each other. And, especially after she lost Charlie, Peter was the one who Olivia could sit down and talk do, decompress if she need. And vice versa.

Up until the end of "Over There", the most romantic moment to me was Peter to Olivia in "What Lies Beneath":

"That's just like you. Even now, you're protecting her. I thought that was the point of having people who care about you in your life... to have someone to talk to when you're scared."

Edited by GoldfishGirl42, May 27, 2010 @ 10:31 PM.


#28

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Posted May 28, 2010 @ 12:06 PM

I think it's because Walter acts like a child who deperately wants his parents not to get a divorce, it's charming because I could relate to it and it's weird because he's supposed to be the parent ...only thing is he's too damaged to know how.

Very true (about Walter being a child and Peter and Olivia his "parents") - but there's also a slightly more sinister brand of weirdness to it, too, and that is that Walter, in a way, "created" Peter and Olivia. At least, he did artificial things to them that created their current lives and personas... he whisked Peter out of the other world, cured him (and did God knows what else - maybe nothing, but they're sure hinting that we don't know everything yet), and recreated his "son" out of this other boy; and of course did drug experiments on Olivia and helped William Bell turn her into someone with special powers. They are his children who are NOT his children.

What mad scientist wouldn't want to see his two greatest creations "get together," as it were?

Don't get me wrong - Walter is neither a good little child nor an evil towering parent. He's got elements of both. And that's what he's such a brilliant character. And why the Walter/Peter/Olivia triangle is so brilliant.

Not at all, I think it's a really good point!

It all comes natural between Peter and Olvia but that doesn't mean Walter isn't proud of them also in a scientific way, his first successul Cortexiphan child and the first Peter he successfully cured from his illness.

The thing is, Walter had a son and that boy died, he loved him more than the wicked world but Peter is not that child and Olivia is not his daughter, the only thing that could be "real" to him would be grandchildren.

#29

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Posted Oct 16, 2010 @ 12:21 PM

I couldn't decide which episode or character thread to place my comments, and so I'm pulling this one up from a few pages back. I'm surprised it hasn't seen more action given how much the show is exploring the Peter/Olivia dynamic this season - without having the two of them actually interact, which is a pretty neat trick.

One thing that's really worked for me is how the memory of Peter is operating for Our Olivia as she struggles to recover her identity. The second season did a great job setting up Peter's role in Olivia's life as the person she turns to when she's in trouble (like when the Cancerous Cortexiphan Kid busted into her apartment), and the one she feels safe expressing her fears to (as in Jacksonville). It makes sense to me that he would be the one her troubled mind would conjure up when looking for help to right itself.

On the other side of the interdimensional divide, the Peter/Bolivia interactions in the most recent episode were fascinating to me. I'm definitely in the Peter Knows/Suspects camp after thinking about the episode some more, based on both his demeanor and the two pretty revealing conversations with Bolivia. I have to believe that the con man mention was intentional on the part of the writers, put there to remind us that Peter is someone who's very capable of deception, perhaps more comfortable with it than Bolivia is. I also felt that there was a coolness, a kind of reserve in Joshua Jackson's performance that was a marked difference from Peter's usual demeanor in scenes with Olivia. I've always liked that the Peter/Olivia dynamic has kind of played on gender expectations, in that Peter often operates as the more emotionally available of the two. After they got over their initial suspicion of each other in the early episodes, he always treated Olivia with warmth and an easy affection, and he often seemed very careful and even gentle with her. His interactions with her in this episode all seemed to carry a kind of challenging edge, even though it was hidden underneath good-natured bantering, as if he were trying to unsettle her (which would make sense if he suspected her as Bolivia, but is a complete change - to me - from his usual demeanor with Olivia, whom he usually seems to be trying to look after, even when she doesn't think she needs it).

Also, the further we get into this season, the more impressed I am by the foreshadowing the writers laid in with Brown Betty last season. From Olivia ending up trapped in a box (as she did at the end of the second season finale), to Peter acting as the one who pulls her out (as his memory seems to be doing for Olivia's true self), and Peter's mechanical heart being sought and hunted for (which coincides nicely with the idea of him as the fuel/power source for the doomsday machine). And the mention of the tank by Walternate brought to mind Olivia's coffin filling with water just before Peter pulled her out, and makes me wonder if that will be the point at which Walternate's plan will backfire.

#30

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Posted Oct 16, 2010 @ 12:52 PM

We have been discussing Peter/Walter and Olivia/Peter in the Peter Bishop thread, because we couldn't find this one, so thank you, susan vance!

Also, the further we get into this season, the more impressed I am by the foreshadowing the writers laid in with Brown Betty last season.

Except that Peter didn't dance with his Olivia *sad*

I also agree that Peter's behavior towards Olivia has changed. He doesn't show concern and his previous focus on her has disappeared, although her distress is very noticeable in the last episode. That's not the Peter I know, but it could just be that he subconsciously knows the truth. However, if he knows the truth, why did he trust her with his own fears about the weapon and his problems with Walter in The Box?