129 replies to this topic

[TWoP Roxy]

From SyFy.com:

Daniel Graystone faces a rival while Sister Clarice closes in on Zoe's avatar.

[Kodos]

Is it just me, or does anyone else find those DROID commercials particularly disconcerting while watching this show?

[Wrenchwind]

Holo-Daniel wigging Joeseph out was pretty great.

[benteen]

I thought it was a little above average. It didn't grab me like last week's episode although like every show so far, it finished strong. Enjoyed Clarice's reaction to Serge (so him some respect, huh) and Zoe's interaction with Philo. Daniel's storyline continues to be the driving force of this show while Joe Adama seems to be just there.

-So now Daniel and Joseph are accessories in two more murders? And even Philo might be a terrorist sympathizer? Okay, terrific...

-The producers finally got Stinger back. Sort of.

-Still not quite sure what to think of Sister Clarice. She still hasn't been quite the character she was in the pilot.

-They're definitely pushing Joe and Evelyn together...make me wonder further if Willie Adama is really Bill Adama.

[sordidheart88]

I call b.s. on Philo not getting a single response (I mean come on he's so cute) but it got him and Zoe to truly meet for the first time ever (and he cleaned up so nicely in that suit!) so how much can I really complain? Zoe is smooth she didn't miss a beat, did she? I'm glad they got that, "You look like Zoe Graystone" thing out of the way because it would have made no sense for Philo not to know what she looks like.

James Marsters *sigh* always a treat even as a self mutilating cult leader, hope he sticks around for awhile.

[Nightmare Logic]

Its the little things about this show that really get to me. Daniel and Amanda talking during the party and Amanda's comments about how no one had called her "Terror Mom."

Clarice being all supportive of Amanda while stealing from Daniel and then getting drunk and high.

Philo's date with Zoe-A.

Oh and the little moment between Joe and Evelyn was nice too.

All the little things made this episode and the show for me.

[benteen]

Torresani did a great job in the whole date scene. Seriously, she could read out of a phone book and make it entertaining.

[Wrenchwind]

Zoe was attempting the Clark Kent method of diguising herself...

[shapeshifter]

So on Amanda's home planet they get drunk on Gatorade?

So there's a lot of what appears to be mental illness on Caprica. Philo is sweet, but a bit creepy too. Spike is sicko. Clarice needs rehab. Daniel is haunted. They make Joseph look normal.

Edited by shapeshifter, Mar 5, 2010 @ 11:20 PM.

[kieyra]

Still absorbing, but have a few early thoughts. First: Virgis is bringing the menace really, really well. Kudos to the actor. It was a little over the top, but it did fit with what we've seen of Tauron eye-for-an-eye vengeance. But even more entertaining is watching Daniel not just collapsing in anxiety (hello Joe Adama), but actively trying to think one step ahead of the guy. Eric Stoltz is doing a great job with it--you can see the wheels spinning, and you can see the nerves of steel that he must have to have gotten where he is. Watching the two of them spar--and watching Daniel watch him do his act on the interview show--is pretty riveting.

I suspect people are going to be all over the Zoe/Philo date so I'll leave it to others. Nice that Zoe got some lines, although I admit she is strangely compelling on her mute episodes.

I thought at first that Barnabas was shooting up. Man, his version of a hair shirt was pretty f'n extreme.

Do we feel like Zoe spotted Clarice's data theft?

Edited by kieyra, Mar 5, 2010 @ 10:49 PM.

[TVspectator]

So on Amanda's home planet they get drunk on Gatorade?

I thought that Amanda was supposed to be from Caprica?

Edited by TVspectator, Mar 5, 2010 @ 11:37 PM.

[billyez]

This feels like the slowest episode yet of the series.

This episode felt like it was that was dedicated to setting up events which would come later rather than standing up on its own. The last few minutes between Daniel and Tomas was as well as I thought it would be, but other aspects of the episode (Philo date, the gal who has the hots for Adama, etc.) just seemed like issues that would come up later.

Luckily, the next episode seems more engaging.

-Still not quite sure what to think of Sister Clarice. She still hasn't been quite the character she was in the pilot.

I've noticed this too, but I suspect that it's for a reason. In this episode, I really started to understand that Clarice is rather...unhinged. Not only a little unhinged, but not even seen as the most trustworthy or competent person in the STO. Her boy-toy seemed more in control of the plan to get the avatar than she did early on in this episode.

I think this is all leading up to a falling out between Clarice and other members of the STO.

Edited by billyez, Mar 5, 2010 @ 11:27 PM.

[dalek sec]

I see Clairce's Dalek masters aren't too thrilled with her plan for the avatar, the look on her face when she saw Serge for the first time was pretty funny though.

[shelleyl]

I still can't shake the sense that this show would be a lot easier to enjoy second time around. It feels that there are all sorts of pieces I'm missing but the glacial pace continues to make it hard for me to properly become gripped. Having said that it was good to see Barnabas and I look forward to getting to see more about the dissention in the STO ranks. I also like the developments with Daniel but continue to get nothing from the Adama storyline when it isn't focused on Tamara.

[BlackLove]

Virgis (?) was chewing that steak like he was the scenery. It also reminded me of Cypher in The Matrix during his steak scene. Except Cypher really made me want to eat steak too and enjoy it for what it was. This guy? Not so much.

And I'm not so sure Daniel's avatar would act so MENU-Y when introducing people to holobands.

Do characters notice when Zoe's red eye is turned towards or away from them?

[jords]

Now that I'm over the incredible testosterone festival *fans self* of Stoltz, Morales and Marsters...and whoever that was that played Vergis. Thank You, SyFy, that was...pleasant.

Ok, I've watched the scene 2xs now, and am still confused by what the heck Clarice and her husbands are after....so they know Zoe's program makes avatars, and they have all the characteristics of their maker, and they think this is like eternal life, and their goal is to...be an avatar? I'm still waiting for this to make sense. Not that V-World isn't incredibly cool, and props to Morales and Stoltz for making THAT scene hilarious, but...I'm still not clear what the STO want. I have to assume they don't know Zoe-A has been transferred to the robot, so unless what happened to Zoe had been STO's plan...and yep, I'm still confused. Going with it, enjoying the ride immensely, but confused. (I have a limited amount of brain cells, and Lost is demanding more than its fair share, sorry Ron...)

Lastly, was anyone else getting a Steve Jobs vs. Bill Gates, only cooler-vibe from Daniel and Vergis? Just me then? Ok....

Do we feel like Zoe spotted Clarice's data theft?

kieyra, I certainly thought Zoe was onto Clarice! And if not for the Sulfur-ade Amanda would have been a wee bit more suspicious...

Edited by jords, Mar 5, 2010 @ 11:37 PM.

[Grimes]

I wonder where the copy of Zoe will lead. I thought that the program needed the vergis chip and the graystone body in order to function.

[Kaffyr]

The pacing in this story continues to please me inordinately; I'm getting a chance to watch peoples' faces as they interact and watch each other, getting a chance to see the world around them, the little things and the big things. Adding Tomas Vergis into the mix, and showing every scene between him and Daniel in slow, deliberate, unstated warfare just ratcheted up the sense of tension.

Because what this show really needs is an infusion of more fission-grade tension.

TVspectator, I also wondered whether the comments between Clarice and Amanda indicated they were from another planet; not Tauron, but not Caprica, either.

I have a feeling Lacy is going to get bad-ass faster, and harder, than she really wants to.

Fantastic, fantastic, fantastic. Damn.

[SnarkyKat]

Ooh, sneaky writers! I remember being put out that they seemingly changed Bill Adama's mother from Evelyn (as mentioned in BSG) to Shannon, but it never occurred to me they'd introduce Evelyn as a whole 'nother character. I guess we know where she and Joe are eventually ending up.

Philo and Zoe-A are all kinds of cute. I'm very much enjoying this plot.

Not sure I can buy James Marsters as anything except Spike. I suppose only time will tell.

[ReflexOne]

Oh-kay.

I agree that certain parts of this episode seemed slow. But for this episode "slow" does not mean "bad" for me.

SO many moments of goodness for me. You know, I've been watching some early Battlestar episodes, and I think my brain finally made a connection (at least in how the shows are shot, paced, made, look, "feel"...) between BSG and Caprica. Like, the way an over-the-top moment can lead to a really quiet one, yet they believably (to me) fit in the same space.

Vergis' motives, even being so very explicitly explained, are compelling. Especially given the primer to Tauron family ties we've been getting from the Adamas. Also, the layout of his tattoos being hidden by his business clothes was much more appreciated by myself after reading these forums and learning how that has analogues here on Earth cultures. Sam Adama having tattoos that show outside of his, err... clothes lines ... seems to place him on a level of someone who doesn't care that people see him as visibly Tauron. His talk with Amanda a couple weeks ago about how the tattoos aren't necessarily mob or crime-related makes it seem like Sam is comfortable in his culture and himself. Which we've also been getting in the way he acts toward Joe.

Vergis, on the other hand, was not visibly tattooed. And he's also introduced as a man with his own stuff to hide or conceal. Daniel picking apart the reasons for his plan to appear more Caprican showed that. He's putting on this sort of upper crust of Caprican-ness, while reveling in being Tauron beneath the surface. It's a different take to being Tauron than we've seen from Sam or Joe, so I like it.

I'm pretty sure I will have several more reasons to be freaked out by him by the end of the series.

The Greystones continue to enchant me, when they're getting along.

And is that love (of a non-assistant-y kind) I see brewing for Joe Adama? That's just cute, in all it's obviousness. Because it's so obvious. And she wants it to be obvious. And Joe Adama couldn't handle it. Which made me giggle.

I just realized how very much of this episode was about the relationships. And nothing was having me nerd out more than Philo (and his DORKY, DORKY Caprican Match.com picture!) and "Oh, I'm so totally not" Zoe-bot. Good lord, that girl is working him with all the feminine wiles. I feel like we're seeing some really good Proto-Six programming.

Hell, I even enjoyed Daniel Greystone busting Philo for smoking in the lab ... while totally not recognizing what was happening. Even if he totally knew that Philo is weird-crushing on the robot ... I wonder if he'd be so forgiving if he knew Philo is essentially macking on his daughter.

I missed actually seeing Tamara this episode, but I'm happy Joe is making progress toward getting to that point.

Not much can be said about the horrible awesome uncomfortableness of the Sister Clarice Magic Train of Drunken False Sisterly Bonding. Just that I thought both women totally sold it, and for a few moments I found myself going "oh, how I wish what Amanda thinks is happening is what actually was happening, because Amanda Greystone could totally use a friend like that right now."

They've introduced some slightly interesting subtext into Lacey's subplot. Yet part of me truly cannot wait for Lacey to get the upper hand on Barnabus (oh, hai Spike!), and get some revenge on his weird self.

All said? I really can't wait to see Date Number Two for Zoe and Philo.

I'm still not clear what the STO want. I have to assume they don't know Zoe-A has been transferred to the robot, so unless what happened to Zoe had been STO's plan...and yep, I'm still confused.

-- jords

I'm getting the theory that the STO may have One True God, but they don't have One True Plan. If tonight is any indication, Barnabus (who is all bomb-y) and Sister Clarice are pursuing different agendas. And whatever STO council exists is putting Barnabus and his violence in ascendance. As opposed to what Sister Clarice is wanting. And that what Ben Stark did by blowing up the maglev train in the pilot was not sanctioned by EITHER Barnabus or Sister Clarice.

Barnabus may be putting the bombings and the violence out there in an attempt to destabilize Caprican/Colonial government as a way of fostering dissatisfaction with the Establishment (government, worship of the gods, etc). If people get dissatisfied with that they might move toward the One True God instead. That whole idea.

Whereas, oddly enough, Sister Clarice's own pet project seems now to be this thought of taking Zoe's avatar work and leaving "this world" behind. She certainly seemed to hold her thought of "an afterlife we can see and touch" as much more important than making much serious change on Caprica itself. Or perhaps her idea is simply that if you show the people a "real afterlife" they might come toward the One True God as a way of assuring their immortality. Kind of like asking for the Pope to forgive your worldly sins through giving tons of money to the church, though.

I'm very pleased with all this Sister Clarice involvement in this episode. She's been a flat, flat character for me, despite how Polly Walker's been doing the actual acting. This is the first episode I've really thought there was a "there" there.

[benteen]

I wonder if it's going to end up where Clarice has her own Zoe avatar. Two different copies of Zoe, just like the multiple copies of Cylons we see on BSG.

Evelyn, Joe's wife's been dead for what? A month, maybe two? The body's not even cold yet...back off.

The slow pace of this show might be the fact that they have a twenty-episode season instead of the usual 13-episode season for basic cable. As much as I loved BSG, I still feel it was a mistake to move the episode count to twenty a year starting in Season 2. It stretched out the story and leader to a couple of poor filler episodes along the way. I think 20 episodes for Caprica is a mistake.

I suspect people are going to be all over the Zoe/Philo date so I'll leave it to others. Nice that Zoe got some lines, although I admit she is strangely compelling on her mute episodes.

I've been very impressed with Alessandra Torresani. Whether it's saying nothing and reacting to what's going on around her or dating Philo in the vworld, she's a very engaging actress.

[Alphapenguin]

Did anyone else recognize that the Graystone party was filmed in the University of British Columbia Museum of Anthropology?

The Great Hall with its authentic First Nations totem exhibits and the Rotunda featuring Haida artist Bill Reid's massive wood sculpture "The Raven and the First Men" were displayed authentically. There was absolutely no attempt to disguise the venue or any of these great works.

The UBC MOA is well worth a visit whenever you may be in Vancouver. It's breathtaking.

(If this comment looks similar to the one, same topic, on the syfy forum site it's because I wrote it.)

Ok, I've watched the scene 2xs now, and am still confused by what the heck Clarice and her husbands are after....so they know Zoe's program makes avatars, and they have all the characteristics of their maker, and they think this is like eternal life, and their goal is to...be an avatar? I'm still waiting for this to make sense. Not that V-World isn't incredibly cool, and props to Morales and Stoltz for making THAT scene hilarious, but...I'm still not clear what the STO want. I have to assume they don't know Zoe-A has been transferred to the robot, so unless what happened to Zoe had been STO's plan...and yep, I'm still confused. Going with it, enjoying the ride immensely, but confused.

Sister Clarice's own pet project seems now to be this thought of taking Zoe's avatar work and leaving "this world" behind. She certainly seemed to hold her thought of "an afterlife we can see and touch" as much more important than making much serious change on Caprica itself. Or perhaps her idea is simply that if you show the people a "real afterlife" they might come toward the One True God as a way of assuring their immortality. Kind of like asking for the Pope to forgive your worldly sins through giving tons of money to the church, though.

I'm in full agreement with the comments re. STO and avatar and afterlife. It's almost as if one of the STO factions believes that somehow one's soul can magically be transferred into an avatar. It's senseless, but it should make great plot development.

Edited by Alphapenguin, Mar 6, 2010 @ 12:54 AM.

[Bad Thoughts]

Ok, that was a big data dump. I didn't feel like much acting was going on, just a bunch of posturing and clenched jaws. Even Amanda's grief seemed trite (unlike in other episodes). Clarisse's scenes need better pacing; perhaps her drug habit needs to be cut out.

Now Zoe-A's date ... genius. Touching, a little 90210 (the actress reminded me a little of Shannon Doherty).

Did anyone recognize the style of the statues that sat behind Daniel's couch as he watched Vergis on TV?

[Jack Malloy]

So on Amanda's home planet they get drunk on Gatorade?

Ambrosia was also the drink of choice in BSG, and it looked like Gatorade then too.

[Kaffyr]

Alphapenguin;

Did anyone else recognize that the Graystone party was filmed in the University of British Columbia Museum of Anthropology?

I immediately recognized it as some sort of BC cultural place, and I got a kick out of it. I suppose I should be a little miffed that they didn't take more care to hide its connection to our world, but somehow, I didn't care.

Edited by Kaffyr, Mar 6, 2010 @ 1:27 AM.

[Wrenchwind]

I immediately recognized it as some sort of BC cultural place, and I got a kick out of it. I suppose I should be a little miffed that they didn't take more care to hide its connection to our world, but somehow, I didn't care.

Even that didn't really bother me-- the Delphi Museum was full of Greco-Roman art, so why not have some non-Western culture thrown into the mix too? :D

Anyway, Caprica is literally Planet Vancouver and I'm perfectly okay with that.

[ShortTimer]

... and whoever that was that played Vergis

That's John Pyper-Ferguson. I thought he was great and really liked the dynamic between Vergis and Daniel; intelligent rivals, and Vergis is after a very different kind of Tauron justice than Sam metes out. It was a great development, seeing another angle.

Not sure I can buy James Marsters as anything except Spike. I suppose only time will tell.

I've had the same trouble with some other roles he's done where he was kind of just a regular guy. As Barnabas, though, like Spike, he is a little larger, a real character, in various senses of the word. This could be really good.

the horrible awesome uncomfortableness of the Sister Clarice Magic Train of Drunken False Sisterly Bonding. Just that I thought both women totally sold it, and for a few moments I found myself going "oh, how I wish what Amanda thinks is happening is what actually was happening, because Amanda Greystone could totally use a friend like that right now."

Amanda does seem so very isolated. I felt bad for her, drunk and maybe hoping Clarice will call again. Clarice didn't seem at all sorry while she was stealing the information, but I did wonder if her own drunk/stoned episode was fueled by some guilt.

[Tolteca]

I'm presuming Clarice and Amanda are both Scorpians, then. I still love Clarice but I'm really looking forward to a Clarice-Barnabas showdown of awesome, as she really needs more meat for her scenes.

'Rachel' and Philo were adorable and I'm glad he saw through the Clark Kent-ing, as I'm not fond of dumbing down love interests.

Barnabas got a great intro but there wasn't enough of him. More please stat.

Evelyn's moving in a bit fast on Mr I Only Had My Wife's Funeral Last Week.

I like that we get the blood and death side of Sam Adama's work. Good honest balance there to his awesome.

I still can't stand Patton Oswalt's character, even if he at least provides useful info dump this week.

Good Gates-Jobs rivalry of doom there too.

Loving this show.

[AmberJamie]

TVspectator, I also wondered whether the comments between Clarice and Amanda indicated they were from another planet; not Tauron, but not Caprica, either.

and

I'm presuming Clarice and Amanda are both Scorpians, then. I still love Clarice but I'm really looking forward to a Clarice-Barnabas showdown of awesome, as she really needs more meat for her scenes.

I agree. Heck, they even had Amanda mention that the drink was from Scorpia, so I find that interesting. Apparently, Scorpians are more easily accepted than Taurons or Gemenons.

[cwaldo]

I'm loving Tom Vergis, and I'm feeling really scared for Daniel Greystone. He's got too many people who want to frak him up.

I'm a little annoyed by the STO plotline. What the hell do they want? They are so fractured and I still don't really understand their motivation. Barnabas blows trains to get people to believe in God? How does that work? I guess I'm trying to analogize them to Middle Eastern terrorist too much and it's not working for me. I mean in real life, you have groups that believes they've been unfairly persecuted by Western forces or their own government and use terrorist tactics to get them to leave. Why are the STO bombing people? What is their ultimate purpose? Maybe I should just not try to get in the mind of religious fanatics.

Clarice's faction seems to be interested in creating immortal life through avatars. How is that getting them closer to God? Do they not believe in an afterlife now? I do like this idea in that it seems to be going down the path of resurrection and multiple copies of cylons, but right now all of their motives just seem way too fuzzy.

Loved Joseph trying to figure out the holobands. He seemed like such an old man there.