242 replies to this topic

[AuntieLizard]

Per TWoP Barnes:

Go ahead and start a topic for Katherine. Elena and/or Nina-related posts can go in the first thread. We'll restrict your new thread to the character, Katherine (discussion of Nina, the actress, in that thread, we can keep to her portrayal of Katherine).

So, Katherine. I've been presuming that she was an evil bitch vampire mistress all this time. I haven't completely changed my stance, as yes, she kills ruthlessly, beds two brothers at once, manipulates them to think they feel emotions that they don't, probably killed her "family" in a fire in Atlanta (???) - the list of her crimes against humanity is rather lengthy.

BUT. Damon is also a ruthless killer yet we have seen a humane side to him. I saw glimmers of humanity in Katherine when she and Anna exchanged smiles at the fact that Gilbert and Pearl seem taken with each other. It was kind of a normal, domestic moment between two women and a child. Pearl seemed rather normal for a vampire, kind of like current day Stefan maybe - would she be hanging around someone as wild and reckless as Katherine if she didn't have any merits? Or were the three of them (Pearl, Katherine and Anna) a team of some sort and forced to band together by necessity? Even if yes, they seemed rather close.

Anyway, I wonder if Katherine isn't as completely evil as she was first made out to be. What was she like as a human? Who turned her? She has become much more interesting to me after the last episode. I would love it if the show gives her the dimensions that it gives Damon and Stefan rather than making her a flat, stock villainess.

Edited by AuntieLizard, Feb 9, 2010 @ 10:52 PM.

[Wolfie65]

The characters' respective personalities aside, Nina Dobrev is cute as Elena, HOT as Katherine!

[CarpingSlav]

It's been interesting to read up on people's view of Elena here and on other sites prior to the show. I think Nina Dobrev(a) has improved leaps and bounds - her Elena is not Katherine. It's pity that (from what I read somewhere), Nina doesn't think we will see both at the same time.

Still I want an unholy trio of Damon, Stefan and the late Lexi to kick her arse to the curb.

[for the aliens]

I love this crazy bitch. Nina Dobrev is good as Elena, but she kicks ass as Katherine. I want more Katherine/Damon/Stefan. Like now.

[couldhavebee]

My respect for ND as an actress gets a boost every time I see her as Katherine. I've liked ND from the beginning, but Elena strikes me as a fairly easy role to play: she's kind of a generically likable-but-mildly-angsty contemporary teenager. Katherine, though, has a genteel veneer with a fiercely manipulative, seductive and borderline viciousness that I'd imagine presents a bigger challenge for most actresses...not to mention the slightly different speech patterns and all those cumbersome layers that come with having to wear old-fashioned clothes!

Sometimes watching actors/actresses try to pull of dual roles is downright embarrassing, but ND does it with ease.

Edited by couldhavebee, Feb 13, 2010 @ 2:35 PM.

[Scrapper]

I kinda get the feeling Nina likes Katherine better. Simply, because she's more fun to play. Elena is pretty generic. I like her, now but, it would be fairly easy to play. Though, maybe not. It's hard to get people not to hate a MarySue and sometimes Elena comes across at one.

[MethodActor05]

So I'm guessing that Katherine had been a vampire for at least a few years, because it seems like she already had a "vampire" clan around her. But I don't think she had been a vampire for a long time, because I think Emily was a slave of her family that she had, in secret, freed. She set the fire to cover up the fact that she totally killed her family, and inherited money. It looks like Katherine's game was to go from Southern town to Southern town as a genteel belle, screw around with the aristrocrats while feeding. And Katherine just got too greedy in Mystic Falls because people noticed how many people were missing.

As for me, I'd love to see Katherine's meeting with Anna in 1983 Chicago. I'm betting it was at some New Wave/Punk club- seeing Katherine and Anna in 1980's punk garb would be cool.

Edited by MethodActor05, Feb 13, 2010 @ 8:20 PM.

[ElleTell00]

I can't wait to see Katherine in the present (you know she's coming). I'd imagine she's living pretty extravagantly somewhere, although I do wonder how she went unnoticed in the vampire world?

I would love to know the back story on how she hooked up with Pearl and Anna, because Pearl didn't seem as bat shit as Katherine did back then.

[AuntieLizard]

I think the heroine is just as difficult to play as a good villain, if not more. ND has to tread a fine line as Elena in order to keep Elena from becoming a Mary Sue. I'd think that playing Katherine is definitely more enjoyable but not necessarily more difficult. Badasses are fun to watch. Having said that, I think she's doing a good job so far as Katherine.

I want an unholy trio of Damon, Stefan and the late Lexi to kick her arse to the curb.

I can't help wondering if Katherine had a good reason for leaving Damon behind. We only have Anna's word for it that she doesn't care. After all the buildup the show is giving her, I'd be disappointed if she turned out to be nothing more than a selfish brat.

[Sedruol]

I can't help wondering if Katherine had a good reason for leaving Damon behind. We only have Anna's word for it that she doesn't care. After all the buildup the show is giving her, I'd be disappointed if she turned out to be nothing more than a selfish brat.

I still haven't seen any evidence that her interest in the Salvatore brothers went beyond "toying with two of the hottest guys in the county". The fact that she left Pearl in the tomb to rot when she escaped either means she's a survivalist, she's incredibly selfish, or she's cunning & evil. It'll be interesting to see in which direction the show decides to take her character.

[mykka]

Well she did say "because i'm spoiled, and selfish", so I guess she really doesn't care about anyone else.
With that being said, I absolutely love Nina as Katherine, she really plays her like the bitch she is supposed to be. I can't wait for more flashback episodes, I find her fun to watch.

[JennyLiz]

I still haven't seen any evidence that her interest in the Salvatore brothers went beyond "toying with two of the hottest guys in the county".

Random question: why did Pearl think that Katherine fooling around with the Salvatore brothers would lead people to speculate that she was a vampire? I understand it would call attention to her, but isn't it a pretty big leap to vampire? Wouldn't they just think she was a whore?

[Allie5687]

I understand it would call attention to her, but isn't it a pretty big leap to vampire? Wouldn't they just think she was a whore?

Good question. Maybe because it's unlikely that the two brothers would be so openly and freely involved with her? The council knew that vampires were capable of compulsion, and uncompelled Stefan probably wouldn't have gone along with it (I think Damon was compelled, too, and doubt that he would have been okay with the situation had he been fully aware). Stefan's unusual behavior led to Katherine's arrest. Katherine wasn't much for living under the radar, so the more attention she drew to herself and her exploits the more likely it was that she would arouse the suspicion of the zealous council. And that's pretty much what happened.

[Kelane]

The thing I love about ND's portrayal of Katherine is that I actually forget its the same actress playing Elena. I watched an interview where ND was talking about biting people and I was thinking "what does she know about it, her character doesn't get to do any biting", completely forgetting that she gets to do the Katherine gig. In my mind its as if they are two separate actresses. Maybe its just because the characters are so vastly different, but kudos to the actress for helping that along!

[AuntieLizard]

why did Pearl think that Katherine fooling around with the Salvatore brothers would lead people to speculate that she was a vampire?

Maybe Katherine told Pearl that she was planning on turning them? In a town where vampire lore is taken seriously, two brothers disappearing would bring suspicion.

[Amester0120]

Moving to Media thread...

Edited by Amester0120, Mar 4, 2010 @ 1:21 PM.

[Hamnoo]

One thing I noticed about Nina Dobrev as Katherine:
In ep. 13, Children of the Damned, when she attacks the man from the carriage it was shot similar to Damon murdering Tanner. Both kills look animalistic and sudden, but Katherine freaked me out more. And I don't mean because of the scene or the impact of the scene on overall events but because of the few seconds of the actual blood-draining.
The reason for that is, Katherine looks tiny, the period dresses even emphasize that. And something about that - this little human looking creature attacking the bigger man like Damon did ... I don't know how to describe it, I can just repeat: It was freaky.

[Hamnoo]

Some people on this forum speculated that as soon as we get to see Katherine, there will have been so much build-up to her character that it will be hard for her not to disappoint.
I disagree.
I feel like every tidbit that we learn about Katherine after 1864 or even the more that we might learn about her in future episodes about the grave events of that year - only helps us form a more clear picture of her in our head.
Before she was ... what? The ex-girlfriend that was evil enough to want to have to Salvatore brothers at the same time. ;) She was a one-note character: evil.
Now we know that she "got out before it was too late", meaning, she did have another reason for leaving them besides boredom. She is partying it up somewhere ... yes, she enjoys life. Still. She wants the tomb vampires dead, but not the Salvatore brothers. Yes, she has an agenda besides eviltude maxima. Before, we didn't know about Katherine's goals and wishes in life. For all we knew she could have well wanted to rule the world/ destroy the world, a typical evildoer's goal in fictional stories, which would have been ridiculous, but also would have given us the enormous build-up and hype that she couldn't have lived up to.
But it seems that she has relatable goals: She wants her enemies dead (and maybe we'll even get the treat of learning that there is more to her relation with the tomb vampires than that she left them to rot) and other than that, she likes to live her selfish ways.

Also, I like that so far she hasn't shown up in small Mystic Falls. The way that I picture her, why should she have? The story doesn't dictate her, she dictates the story. (I mean story as in the story that the writers make ... they don't use her character as a story device but rather let her act in character. Though Katherine also "does what she wants" in the characters' universe.)
On whether she'll pay MF a visit after the showdown in the finale ... that I could understand. But I'd also get why the writers would still want to wait, even if the waiting would turn slow and painful then. I want to see her! (And not die!)

[AuntieLizard]

Before she was ... what? The ex-girlfriend that was evil enough to want to have to Salvatore brothers at the same time. ;) She was a one-note character: evil.
Now we know that she "got out before it was too late", meaning, she did have another reason for leaving them besides boredom. She is partying it up somewhere ... yes, she enjoys life. Still. She wants the tomb vampires dead, but not the Salvatore brothers. Yes, she has an agenda besides eviltude maxima. Before, we didn't know about Katherine's goals and wishes in life. For all we knew she could have well wanted to rule the world/ destroy the world, a typical evildoer's goal in fictional stories, which would have been ridiculous, but also would have given us the enormous build-up and hype that she couldn't have lived up to.

I disagree that she was a one-note "evil" character in the flashbacks. She had what looked like good friendships with Pearl and Anna and even had Emily's loyalty aside from regular servitude. I can't even say she was evil at all, actually. It's "wrong" to toy with two brothers at once but I thought she was being playful and flirtatious. (It's icky to sleep with brothers but there are worse crimes.) However, I do agree that we didn't really see what her endgame was. The way she pranced around and ignored Pearl's advice to be cautious, I think she did it all intentionally to draw attention to the vampire issues in Mystic Falls. The fact that she got caught means moot - she got out just as easily - first by the Salvatore Brothers Rescue Team, then on her own by that guard who was enthralled by her.

I don't think that Isobel's "she got out before it was too late" is an accurate statement of what happened at all, unless there's something we haven't been shown yet. I thought Isobel said it just to mess with Elena and to depict Katherine as a victim of the Salvatores so that Elena herself would stay away from the brothers. Isobel herself said it to Damon: Katherine does what she wants. No way was she ever a victim of Stefan or Damon.

I do think that Katherine has some huge evil plans for the town or the town vamps, and that's fine by me. World domination is always the rational end goal for villains - I'd be disappointed if they wanted anything less. The issue is that their motivations and intentions must be believable. All that is tangled and clouded right now by the things we weren't shown and Katherine's non-appearance. But she's been casting a shadow over the town for most of this entire season, and no doubt, we will see her soon. Either her plan requires the Salvatores' involvement or the total opposite.

There is a build-up but I think the writers have been doing a terrific job so far and believe there will be a substantial amount of payoff with respect to Katherine's character. Already there's a hundred percent times more flesh to her characterization than there were in the books.

Edited by AuntieLizard, May 10, 2010 @ 9:57 PM.

[MethodActor05]

Katherine. I'm dying to see her in 1983 New Wave garb.

Edited by MethodActor05, May 11, 2010 @ 1:24 AM.

[FromReality]

I don't think Katherine was ever a VICTIM of the Salvatore brothers. Do I think there is more to the story from her side and more to be seen, yes, I do. Isobel saying that seemed way to sincere for my tastes, though it's true she could have been playing it up.

I can imagine that Katherine's feelings might have become genuine for one of the brothers before she realized it was happening and perhaps thats why she FELT she needed to leave.

[Lizardbeth J]

I can imagine that Katherine's feelings might have become genuine for one of the brothers before she realized it was happening and perhaps thats why she FELT she needed to leave.

That's interesting, because if it's true, it brings up another point. If we assume it was Stefan, then that could also be a reason she left. Not just because the feelings were unexpected and real for her, but because he wouldn't believe her if she came to him afterward. She'd poisoned the well, basically, by compelling him and turning him, and whether he really hated her or not, she must have feared he would.

And ye little gods, if this is true, I want a Stefan/Katherine meeting as much as I want the Damon/Katherine smack down... heh.

[lovemytvshows]

That's interesting, because if it's true, it brings up another point. If we assume it was Stefan, then that could also be a reason she left. Not just because the feelings were unexpected and real for her, but because he wouldn't believe her if she came to him afterward. She'd poisoned the well, basically, by compelling him and turning him, and whether he really hated her or not, she must have feared he would.

And ye little gods, if this is true, I want a Stefan/Katherine meeting as much as I want the Damon/Katherine smack down... heh.

Yeah the flashbacks did make it seem like it was Stefan that she actually had genuine feelings for. The D/K smackdown would be angsty and violence fueled but I'd like to see the Stefan/Katherine interaction, especially now that he's with Elena. Would Katherine jealously try to woo him back from Elena by any means possible?

[hardcoreWWnut]

Not sure if this is the right thread but... Does Katherine know what Elena looks like? When Isobel said "she'd be fascinated by you," I got the impression that Katherine doesn't know about the resemblance. I always assumed that she knew (has been watching everything unfold in the background) so I was curious about that comment.

I'm really looking forward to Katherine and Elena's eventual showdown.

There is a build-up but I think the writers have been doing a terrific job so far and believe there will be a substantial amount of payoff with respect to Katherine's character. Already there's a hundred percent times more flesh to her characterization than there were in the books.

Agreed.

What I'm worried about is how they'll keep her around/avoid killing her. I already love her character and I agree that there's a lot of back-story to explore. However, I'm having trouble imagining how Damon and Stefan would let her leave town after her diabolical plan is revealed. This is going to be fun.

Oh, and I agree with what's been said about her desire to keep Damon and Stefan alive. Wouldn't want to be Isobel when Katherine finds out they've been added to the list.

[blinky29]

I think the writers have a really great opportunity with Katherine. She is an incredibly interesting character that has a big impact on the story. And as we know so little about her, any direction she takes can be easily explained. She could be controlled by someone, working with a greater power and hence be able to use the sympathy card. I mean why hasn't she reached out to the brother in this entire time? There definitely is more to the story that it seems.

[scarlett45]

I KNEW it was Katherine when Damon kissed her cheek and the look in her eye. Add that to Jenna's line "you should come in" PLUS the way Damon touched his lips! He had kissed those lips before............- BINGO!!

[Scrapper]

I don't think they should sugar coat Katherine and from her scene tonight it seems they won't. Just as I enjoyed Pearl/Anna being fairly "normal" vampires and found it refreshing that they loved each other and didn't want to go out of their way to hurt. I'd like Katherine to be a badass all the time no apologies. No changed by love. No she's being forced by a more powerful vampire. Just she's a selfish bitch who has been alive for a very long and wants to stay that way. She's also like to have as much "fun" as possible along the way.

[Wendi]

Move over Damon, there is a new badass in town and she effing ROCKS!

Nina does evil very believable. I bought her act until she scared the crap out of Snark.

I love her for killing the 'turd alone.

[Elli DC]

Even though I can't tell whether I guess it was Katherine based off Nina's performance or just the natural plot cliff hanger, but I'm totally going to give Nina the benefit of the doubt and say she rocked it! I can't wait to rewatch it, because I felt something was up with her, she was much quieter, which is somehow uncharacteristic, and the look she gave Jenna, I want to see it all again and disect every second of it! Her voice when she said "I don't want to talk about it" was also not an Elena voice. We all raved about how 1800s Katherine was acted so differently from Elena, but 2010 Katherine was still acted differently from Elena, it was great.

I can't wait to hear about the exact moment Katherine came to town and saw Elena - or if Isobel called her up and mentioned how closely they looked. From the way Isobel said "She would be fascinated by you," it seemed Katherine didn't know the resemblance was uncanny. Wish we coulda seen her face!

[abcde]

MAJOR SPOILERS FOR THE FINALE BELOW.

It seems like Katherine is the major mystery to untangle while we wait for season two.

For example, why did she kill Uncle John? He and Isobel were both working for her, after all. Did she decide he was no longer of use? Did she suspect that he would betray her, or refuse to go along with her new mystery plan?

I *am* speculating she has a new mystery plan for which she needed to return to Mystic Falls, of which killing the tomb vampires was a part. It doesn't seem like it's for the Salvatore brothers. She could have found them at any point during the past century-plus, and chose not to.

Unless, of course, she resents that they're moving on with her doppelganger and has decided to put a stop to it. Which brings us to the question . . .

What will be her attitude towards Elena? There's been an assumption that she'll want to kill Elena out of jealousy. Since Katherine, so far, has been portrayed as a selfish, egotistical person, that makes sense. At the same time, she looked up Isobel out of "genetic curiosity." Presumably a descendant who looks exactly like her would make her even more curious. Would an egotist like Katherine get a kick out of having an identical twin of sorts? Would she want to vamp Elena and "play" with her in a creepy, undead, narcissistic way?

At the end of 1.22, Elena is wandering toward Katherine in the kitchen. If Katherine wants to kill her, we're going to need newly-vamped Jeremy or Katherine-suspecting Damon to burst in, in the season two premiere, and provide a distraction so that Elena can get away. It would be much more interesting, IMO, if the writers went in an unexpected direction and had Katherine and Elena talk. They have at least three very important things in common . . .