Jump to content

4-4: "A Sort of Homecoming" 2009.11.18 (recap)


This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic.

138 replies to this topic

#121

westpap

westpap

    Couch Potato

Posted May 31, 2010 @ 12:12 AM

Inregards to Jessie's dad - he was a black quarterback in 1983 - I have a feeling that he was not recruited by colleges to play quarterback and it left a bad taste in his mouth since he won the state championship. This was way before Doug Williams won the Super Bowl (1988) and that was really the first time (unfortunately) that some people acknowledged that you didn't have to be white to play quarterback.

While I agree that something obviously soured him to football, I'd be a bit surprised if this was the case in 1983. The University of Nebraska -- not exactly a civil rights hotbed -- had Turner Gill at that time, a black quarterback from Texas who played from 1980 to 1983 and wound up coming in third in the Heisman race his senior year, losing out to his own teammate (Mike Rozier, a black runnning back; incidentally, Turner is getting ready to begin his first season as head coach at Kansas). If Nebraska can recruit a black quarterback from Fort Worth, surely other schools would also, if he was any good -- so I don't know that it would necessarily be legitimate to surmise it to be a race issue. Not saying it couldn't be, just that I'd find it a little surprising.

#122

CaseStudy

CaseStudy

    Couch Potato

Posted May 31, 2010 @ 1:11 AM

But, we dont really know why he was there, do we? He might have been there for the same reason Julie was. It was just odd that she approached him,,that's all.


Well, clearly he's gay. Who sees a guy in a gay bar playing pool (in Texas) and assumes he's not gay?

If anyone found out about Julie being in a gay bar all she has to do is say she was there to support a friend. If Tami or CT found out they might punish her but that's all. Traub could lose his job, friends and some of his family if anyone even found out about him being in a gay bar. It wouldn't even matter if he actually was gay.

#123

TryingHarder

TryingHarder

    Fanatic

Posted May 31, 2010 @ 1:19 AM

If anyone found out about Julie being in a gay bar all she has to do is say she was there to support a friend

Why couldn't he say the same thing?

#124

CaseStudy

CaseStudy

    Couch Potato

Posted May 31, 2010 @ 3:14 AM

Who would believe him? This is a small town in Texas. Julie is friends with someone who is openly gay and she's a teenage girl. Even is people were suspicious, she's off to college in some months. Traub resides in Dillon and is an assistant coach on a boy's football team. No matter what he said, people would pry.

Edited by CaseStudy, May 31, 2010 @ 3:18 AM.


#125

halfwaygone

halfwaygone

    Fanatic

Posted May 31, 2010 @ 4:51 AM

In thinking about it, I'm not entirely sure it's a good thing for Julie to keep this secret....if he's gay, that's his business- but if he is attracted to men, and is working with kids who are going to be around him in a locker room setting- well, SOMEONE should be aware of this. The same way as if there were a female coach, or a male coach of a girls team.


I don't know how I feel about this. I get what you're saying, but: Gay does not equal pedophile. And that's kind of what any action on this would imply. Yeah, a female coach is usually not in a male locker room... but it's not really because we assume she'll be attracted to the guys, is it?

Edited by halfwaygone, May 31, 2010 @ 5:00 AM.


#126

Captain Tact II

Captain Tact II

    Couch Potato

Posted May 31, 2010 @ 8:28 AM

I don't know how I feel about this. I get what you're saying, but: Gay does not equal pedophile. And that's kind of what any action on this would imply. Yeah, a female coach is usually not in a male locker room... but it's not really because we assume she'll be attracted to the guys, is it?


I didn't mean to imply that it did. Just that a person who was attracted to a any orientation, being allowed to spend time with people who are underage in a locker room situation and not able to give informed consent is something that should be looked at carefully.

* Female coach in guys locker room while they are changing? Not allowed
* Male coach in girls locker room while they are changing? Not allowed
* Gay/Lesbian coach in same-gender locker room? Should be not allowed. And for whatever the reason/reasons/"reason" in the above points.

Either way, it'll be interesting to see where they go on this one. I still think that Julie should, at the very least, tell her father. Or maybe her mother...that would help get at least SOME kind of decision that was made from a "grown-up" perspective.

ETA- This situation is made more sticky by the fact that you have non-adults in adult bodies.

Edited by Captain Tact II, May 31, 2010 @ 8:34 AM.


#127

benteen

benteen

    Stalker

  • Gender:Male

Posted May 31, 2010 @ 10:11 AM

If Stan hadn't seen Julie, I don't think Julie would have gone up to him at the pep rally. It was the fact that Stan saw her and walked right out of the bar is the reason Julie came up to him. She wanted him to know she wasn't going to say anything. That was why Stan reacted the way he did in a bar.

#128

EleanorAquitain

EleanorAquitain

    Fanatic

Posted May 31, 2010 @ 11:18 AM

Just that a person who was attracted to a any orientation, being allowed to spend time with people who are underage in a locker room situation and not able to give informed consent is something that should be looked at carefully.


No, they shouldn't, IMO, unless they have some sort of record of inappropriate behavior. Being gay does not make Stan either attracted to teenagers or unable to distinguish between his professional or personal behavior. In fact, it obviously does the opposite - he is clearly much more aware that he could be accused of acting inappropriately, so he is careful to keep his personal life personal and his professional life professional.

Stan, apparently, does not have any record of treating his charges inappropriately and, therefore, I see no reason that he needs to be scrutinized because of the mere fact that he is attracted to adult men.

#129

sweetpd7

sweetpd7

    Fanatic

Posted May 31, 2010 @ 11:53 AM

If Stan was really afraid of his gay status being revealed, why would he hang out at the gay bar? Dillon/outside Dillion is such a small place people could see him coming or going from the bar. Anybody could go in the bar as Julie did, and notice him there.

Either he doesn't care what people think, or he has a subconscious need to be outed.

Some teen boys would be uncomfortable around him in the locker room, others wouldn't care.

#130

EleanorAquitain

EleanorAquitain

    Fanatic

Posted May 31, 2010 @ 12:17 PM

If Stan was really afraid of his gay status being revealed, why would he hang out at the gay bar?


Because he wanted to meet other gay men - or wanted to be surrounded by people who won't judge him negatively for his sexual orientation - and Dillon doesn't provide a lot of other opportunities to do that? I don't think that indicates some deep-seated desire to get caught. And he obviously does care, otherwise he wouldn't have left the bar and indicated to Julie that he was going to pretend as if he didn't know what she was talking about.

Some teen boys would be uncomfortable around him in the locker room, others wouldn't care.

Yes, and so long as he doesn't do anything untoward, it shouldn't be up to them to determine if it is appropriate for him to do his job.

#131

yoshi

yoshi

    Couch Potato

Posted May 31, 2010 @ 1:13 PM

The locker room situation is always going to be an issue, regardless of whether it's a coach or fellow athlete that is gay. It reminds me of the scene in _Remember the Titans_ where the player wanted to know whether the new kid was gay or not.

#132

thatsforsure

thatsforsure

Posted May 31, 2010 @ 2:06 PM

Male coach in girls locker room while they are changing? Not allowed


Wow, someone forgot to tell my (male) high school swimming teacher this rule! Ahhh, the '70's when men got away with so much shit.

I agree with those who are uncomfortable with having a same sex locker situation with high schoolers. I'm not attracted to underage males, but I would be very uncomfortable being around them naked in a locker room seeing as how they are mostly fully grown adults physically. MMV and all that.

God I love this show and I'm so glad DirecTV saved it. One more year will be perfect. Too bad Kyle Chandler and Connie Britton haven't been recognized for their stellar portrayal of the Taylors.

#133

WhatDoYouKnow

WhatDoYouKnow

    Fanatic

Posted Jun 1, 2010 @ 7:03 PM

* Gay/Lesbian coach in same-gender locker room? Should be not allowed. And for whatever the reason/reasons/"reason" in the above points.

Wouldn't this also mean they shouldn't be allowed in other gym or YMCA-type locker rooms or public restrooms where there are all different ages of their same gendered people changing or in various states of undress?

No. Again, he's gay, not (presumably) a pedophile. It's the pedophile part that would make it not okay to allow him around young men (or women), not the gay part. And he isn't one, so no one should be allowed to say he can't coach.

I'd be fine with a lesbian woman I don't know in the locker room with me, I would not be okay with a man I don't know, even if he were gay.

Edited by WhatDoYouKnow, Jun 1, 2010 @ 7:04 PM.


#134

annlaw78

annlaw78

    Fanatic

Posted Jun 1, 2010 @ 11:36 PM

If Stan was really afraid of his gay status being revealed, why would he hang out at the gay bar? Dillon/outside Dillion is such a small place people could see him coming or going from the bar. Anybody could go in the bar as Julie did, and notice him there.

Either he doesn't care what people think, or he has a subconscious need to be outed.

I wasn't sure if we were supposed to take Stan's response to Julie as denial that he was there/is gay, or if we were supposed to take it that, yes, he's gay, he's out, and what's the big deal, what is there for him and Julie to talk about. I'd LOVE it if it were the latter, rather than going down a more expected route.

I'm guessing that because of his immediate reaction to seeing Julie in the bar, they are going to go with the former, though.

* Gay/Lesbian coach in same-gender locker room? Should be not allowed. And for whatever the reason/reasons/"reason" in the above points.

In my experience, high school coaches don't really hang out with or stare at the players during the five or so minutes it takes to change. But, I don't know what goes on in a football locker room.

Edited by annlaw78, Jun 2, 2010 @ 9:45 PM.


#135

SimplyS

SimplyS

    Couch Potato

Posted Jun 3, 2010 @ 1:06 PM

* Gay/Lesbian coach in same-gender locker room? Should be not allowed. And for whatever the reason/reasons/"reason" in the above points.


I very strongly disagree with this but (imo wrongly) a lot of the boys he coaches would probably be uncomfortable if they knew he was gay. It's one of the strengths of this show's writing that this is presented in a way where there's room for ambiguous discussion.

#136

blue monkey

blue monkey

    Channel Surfer

Posted Jun 3, 2010 @ 3:55 PM

the guy was working at Sears and volunteering his services after having been an esteemed (and award winning) coach. Taylor may not have done a great background check, since he only had enough money for one hat and all.

#137

swimr

swimr

    Just Tuned In

Posted Jun 3, 2010 @ 5:12 PM

I actually went to Brown and you did in fact have to hand write your admission essay. I hadn't thought about that fact in a long time, and when Julie said it in such an offhand tone, I was suddently reminded of it. What an amazing level of detail is thrown into even meaningless facts on this great show!

#138

Skullcrusher

Skullcrusher

    Loyal Viewer

Posted Jun 8, 2010 @ 10:37 AM

While I agree that something obviously soured him to football, I'd be a bit surprised if this was the case in 1983. The University of Nebraska -- not exactly a civil rights hotbed -- had Turner Gill at that time, a black quarterback from Texas who played from 1980 to 1983 and wound up coming in third in the Heisman race his senior year, losing out to his own teammate (Mike Rozier, a black runnning back; incidentally, Turner is getting ready to begin his first season as head coach at Kansas). If Nebraska can recruit a black quarterback from Fort Worth, surely other schools would also, if he was any good -- so I don't know that it would necessarily be legitimate to surmise it to be a race issue. Not saying it couldn't be, just that I'd find it a little surprising.


I agree. Many top NCAA schools in the mid 70s-early 80s had black QBs. I remember Ohio State had one in the 70s. Oklahoma had their share as well. But the schools that had them mainly used them as another running back in a run-oriented option offense. Turner Gill could pass pretty well and Nebraska used that to their advantage but he was more of a threat to run the ball. It was difficult for these QBs to break into the NFL as a QB since most NFL teams didn't have their QBs run as a designed part of their offense. Perhaps that is what made Jesse's dad bitter. Maybe there was something else that led to it. Some of these schools can be very cutthroat with their players. An injury where he was tossed aside for another player may have soured him. Perhaps he felt academics was more important than football and the coach disagreed and made his life miserable. It could have been a racial thing but there are several other plausible reasons why it doesn't have to be.

#139

JenMilo

JenMilo

    Just Tuned In

Posted Jun 9, 2010 @ 11:58 AM

Perhaps it was insignificant, but it has been bugging me. What did the assistant coach say to Julie at the bar? I rewound a couple of times, but couldn't make it out.