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V Comparisons: Old vs New


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#1

Puds38

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Posted Nov 2, 2009 @ 8:07 PM

Will the new series have the same Holocaust references or will it be updated to 9/11 conspiracies? Miss the orange jumpsuits? Here's the place to discuss the old series versus the new one.

#2

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Posted Nov 2, 2009 @ 9:47 PM

I'm going to miss the echo-reverb voices; I always loved that aspect of the Visitors.

#3

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Posted Nov 2, 2009 @ 10:46 PM

In The Original V (TOV) the Visitors had, at least, 50 mother-ships hovering over the cities of the Earth. The previews for The Re-imagined V (TRV) have indicated that this time there are only 29 mother-ships over our cities. I've always wondered which cities had mother-ships in TOV and which cities will get selected for TRV.

Also, TOV was focused on the Los Angeles mother-ship and the rebels in Southern California. TRV appears to be based in New York City. I wonder if there will be visits to other cities, other mother-ships, and other rebel groups.

I'm going to miss the echo-reverb voices

Yes. That was always creepy & fun.
In watching The Final Battle, yesterday, it seemed that The Visitors would sometimes drop that vocal effect. I don't know if that was intentional, or if it was a production error.

#4

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Posted Nov 2, 2009 @ 10:50 PM

No echo voices in the new version? That's disappointing. I really liked that too. The orange jumpsuits, however, will not be missed by me.

I am sure there will be many 9/11 and terrorist references in this show. It would hard not to see the similarities between real life and the show's premise of aliens infiltrating society before attempting to take over the planet. But I do hope they keep the Holocaust and Resistance references also. Battlestar Galactica used both 9/11 and WW2 references and imagery quite well. I think V could do the same, given the subject matter.

Edited by Nikki125, Nov 2, 2009 @ 10:51 PM.


#5

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Posted Nov 2, 2009 @ 11:07 PM

Will the new series have the same Holocaust references or will it be updated to 9/11 conspiracies?

I was just thinking almost the same thing in the Vspeculation topic! (I hadn't read here yet).

I say... they'll ditch the Holocaust stuff. It hadn't occurred to me that this could be a straight out swap for 9/11, but yeah, I can see that too.

It's a shame, because the Holocaust stuff was an interesting subtext, but the old man figure they'd need would have to be TOO old, and sadly people don't generally identify with it anymore.

#6

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Posted Nov 3, 2009 @ 9:56 AM

Needless to say I’ve been waiting with bated breath for this premiere though it’s tempered with reality that since it’s on commercial vs cable tv, it’ll be cancelled before they finish season 1 (*grimace*). Especially since I read in TV Guide a while back that they were only showing 4 episodes and then break and return to it during the week of Winter Olympics.

I'm in the midst of the marathon and what I loved about the original show (and it’ll be interesting to see what they do in the new series):

The references to the Holocaust, as mentioned above. Though I think they can update it based on current world events. It just depends how skilled their writers are (Battlestar was able to do it). Those were very powerful scenes that still brought a tear to my eye (the letter from the Jewish grandfather). Daniel being lured into the Visitor’s youth corp and watching as he became more and more awed by the power and losing his humanity.

Scientists disappearing, military and police being pressed into service, and the media becoming a propaganda tool and eventually being taken over by the Visitors (and the Resistance starting to pick up on all of this)

The issue of abortion being discussed in relation to teenager Robin’s hybrid pregnancy (this was back in the 80s). BTW, we immediately dubbed Elizabeth as “Lizzie” in my household – LOL. I remember us all screaming when that twin lizard came out.
Also, I always got this subtle lesbian/bi-sexual vibe from Diana. She always had this attraction to Julia. Again, interesting considering the time this was filmed

While watching the series, I think after a while it didn’t/couldn’t continue because you have to go beyond just watching the Resistance fight the Visitors week after week. I was always looking forward to the “enemies of the Visitors” answering the beacon sent out and being added into the mix. This would have added a new dimension to the show. I’m hoping the new show will explore this storyline.

Not sure about the new show and the changing of names, characters, occupations. So, I’ll wait to see how this plays. The thing I liked about Julia “becoming” the leader everyone looked to is she started as a med student, small in stature, and reliance on a cane but then grew into this natural leader. Elizabeth Mitchell starts as a strong leader with her counter terrorist background.
I think how they write the role of the reporter could really play up the state of 24/7 news now – there a lot of meat and meaning they could wring into that role and how media as propaganda can portrayed.

Bottom line, the reason I loved the original series so much was the writing and character development even though it was oooohhhh “sci-fi”. Great sci-fi doesn’t rely on special effects, so here’s hoping they get it right.
Oh and how can I forget, the introduction of Michael Ironsides :D

Edited by goddesspt2, Nov 3, 2009 @ 12:27 PM.


#7

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Posted Nov 3, 2009 @ 2:53 PM

I'm going to miss the echo-reverb voices


I am too especially since it's so much easier to do those kinds of effects now than it was 25 years ago.

I can't wait, I've heard good reviews about this thing and I'm hoping it'll be the next Battlestar Galactica in terms of the quality of the re-imagining.

I wonder how they'll handle the racial aspect of it. I watched the re-air of V the last few nights and it struck me how creeped out the humans were about them being reptiles, particularly in the birth scene with Robin. She cooed at human-looking Elizabeth (at least until she stuck out her forked tongue) but Robin and the other Earthlings were horrified by her brother (was he ever given a name?) I felt bad for Willie who was standing right there and had to hear all that and probably thought the boy was cute little kid. Poor baby was unloved by its mother because it was reptilian.

Edited by Red Rabbit, Nov 3, 2009 @ 3:00 PM.


#8

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Posted Nov 3, 2009 @ 3:26 PM

I've never looked at it that way, but you're right. To Willie, the little lizard baby was probably adorable - but the humans greeted him with horror, and as soon as the poor kid died - saw him as a scientific experiment. I have to confess, I felt sort of sorry for the little lizard baby. No one ever thought about him again, while his sister when on to get all sparkly and save the world.

Do we know if they're going to include the process of "conversion" in this re-imagining? I know that there's now the sleeper-cell aspect, which might not make conversion quite as necessary, but the idea of them corraling the scientists who have questions and brainwashing them was interesting. I'd like to see at least a nod to it, somehow. And are we going to get the cool "human processing plants" scenes?

Also - I really, really hope that Jane Badler or Marc Singer pops up in this series. Jane's actually still pretty smokin' hot - it would be interesting if she had a cameo as maybe the "supreme commander" from the mothership back on the home planet. A girl can dream, right?;)

#9

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Posted Nov 3, 2009 @ 4:33 PM

It's a shame, because the Holocaust stuff was an interesting subtext, but the old man figure they'd need would have to be TOO old, and sadly people don't generally identify with it anymore.

IDK, I saw a documentary on PBS a few months back about a couple who met, fell in love, and survived the Holocaust together. It ended with scenes of them with their children/grandchildren/great-grandchildren in the present day, and they were both pretty spry for their age (still walking, still dancing!). I do think we're at a point where incorporating a Holocaust survivor as a character won't be feasible very, very soon, and I also agree that many people don't understand or identify with that stuff anymore. But I think that that makes it even more important to work it in while we still can. More subtly than in the original, of course, but I'd still like to see it.

But then, I am very partial to Abraham. That scene where he rips his son a new one for not wanting to hide their neighbors in the pool house? Gets me so hard, every time. They way he teaches the local kids the proper way to graffiti a propaganda poster, and the snarky "Shalom" he gives to the Visitors when they come to take him away? Fantastic.

Daniel being lured into the Visitor’s youth corp and watching as he became more and more awed by the power and losing his humanity.

It sounds like something similar will be done with EM's character's son in TRV [© chancellorjake], and I'm def. looking forward to seeing how they do it this time around. Storylines about the banality of evil, how easy it is to succumb to pressure and selfishness, and how blind we often are to our own inhumanity, are my favorite kinds of stories. I really, really hope we see more of that in TRV.

The issue of abortion being discussed

I was surprised to see that this weekend during the marathon. I'd completely forgotten that was in TOV miniseries. I liked the mostly rational discussion about it, and that they went ahead and tried to abort because that's what the girl wanted. That would never fly on TV today, and it makes me sad.

I always got this subtle lesbian/bi-sexual vibe from Diana. She always had this attraction to Julia. Again, interesting considering the time this was filmed

And I heard it was intentional! Very progressive for the '80s. I do hope we get at least one GLBTQ character in TRV. Hopefully not Anna, since 'The Only Gay Character Is Evil' is such a terrible trope and avoiding offensive stereotypes would be nice, but one of the other main characters would be great.

The thing I liked about Julia “becoming” the leader everyone looked to is she started as a med student, small in stature, and reliance on a cane but then grew into this natural leader.

Yeah, I liked the juxtaposition of her tininess with her role as leader to all these big, tough dudes with guns.

Oh and how can I forget, the introduction of Michael Ironsides :D

IRONSIDE! Man, I hope he gets a cameo in the new series. He's always fun to watch.

Things that I also liked in TOV and hope we get a bit of in TRV:

Passing both the racial and gender versions of the Bechdel test, scientists and science being cool, OM NOM NOM RODENTS, hot guys in tight pants, hot guys without their shirts on, stuff getting blow'd up real good (What? It can't all be morals and allegory). Also, the original mini was deliberately written and cast with diversity in mind. It failed quite a bit, but I was still a little sad this weekend when I realized that a cheesy '80s scifi miniseries did better on race and gender than many present-day shows do. So I hope that original spirit of diversity is incorporated into TRV, because damn, do we ever still need it.

#10

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Posted Nov 3, 2009 @ 7:15 PM

I just really hope someone gulps down a hamster in the new version. I'll be pretty bummed if that doesn't happen.

I'm going to miss the echo-reverb voices

I actually didn't even remember that from TOV until I saw a bit of the marathon on SyFy this weekend. I was so surprised to hear it, I laughed for a good minute. It was an interesting effect for the time, but pretty cheese ball. I'm kind of glad they won't have it in this one, because now it'll be easier to go with the idea that The Visitors may have been among us all along. They'll blend better without it.

I do love how in the promo - lead alien lady Anna, does this rapid blinking thing that's very reptilian. If she (and other V characters) continue little physical cues like that, that hint at what they really are, it could be pretty fun.

#11

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Posted Nov 3, 2009 @ 9:39 PM

I have to confess, I felt sort of sorry for the little lizard baby. No one ever thought about him again, while his sister when on to get all sparkly and save the world.


Aww, I loved the little lizard baby! And he did save the world too, since they discovered the Red Dust thanks to him.

ETA: Is the priest going to be the new Mike Donovan?

Edited by Casino Bride, Nov 3, 2009 @ 9:40 PM.


#12

Puds38

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Posted Nov 3, 2009 @ 10:04 PM

From the episode thread

I also did not like how certain things were glossed over or ignored like the booms to local economies. Cures to 65? ailments...and all the hospitals, facilities, HMOs, pharmaceutical companies, government, whomever have no problems with this? There just seemed to be a lot accomplished organizationally in a short amount of time without the realistic red-tape, bureaucracy that would in reality. The sudden increase of attendance at church - this should be explored more, and not just Catholics at this one church in NYC; there should be massive repercussions in other socio-economic environments and religions across the planet that I would like to see.


I'm wondering if this is how they will justify taking the scientist and doctors. Some of them begin to complain about universal healthcare, some are bribed and others disappear.

ETA: I think the priest is the same as the priest in TOV.

Edited by Puds38, Nov 3, 2009 @ 10:05 PM.


#13

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Posted Nov 3, 2009 @ 10:10 PM

In the original they promised us cheap fuel. Apparently, the oil companies didn't complain then. In fact, Donovan's mother just pushed her exec husband to get the first contract. There are always collaborators that want in the ground floor of a new regime in order to get rich.

Same thing will probably happen here. They figure they will find a way to control the cures that will make them rich. And the aliens, being just as mercenary so the collaborators will thing, will let them.

#14

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Posted Nov 3, 2009 @ 10:16 PM

Well I just rewatched the original V miniseries I had not seen it in over 20 years. I had forgotten just how good the original miniseries was. Sure the second miniseries and particularly the series were cheesy 80's TV but that original one was a lot smarter than I had remembered. Then again I was just a kid last time I saw it so quite a bit of it went over my head back then.

I am going to have fun matching the characters from the old and the new.
Clearly the FBI agent's son is a combination of Bernstein the Brownshirt and The girl who has the lizard baby with the Visitor youth leader.
Anna is the remake Diane or John.
Scott Wolf is the female reporter from the original.
Any others so far?

#15

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Posted Nov 3, 2009 @ 10:36 PM

The remake is certainly better acted than the original ;-) And Anna makes a great John/Diana. But, there's something missing. For all the 80s cheeziness, the original had an emotional heart that, at least so far, the new series lacks. In the original, it really felt like ordinary people witnessing a global event and coming up with a grassroots response. Right from the beginning, we connected with characters from all walks of life: gardeners, scientists, thieves, old people, children. The driving question -- tying in with the Holocaust theme -- was, "How would you and your neighbors react to such a situation?" Now we have an FBI agent, a high level banker, and a priest. They are likeable enough, but they are already people in positions of some authority. Watching their stories may be cool, but it's not the same as imagining what could be our story (you, me, and the guy next door) unfold.

#16

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Posted Nov 3, 2009 @ 10:38 PM

I like the new "uniforms" better. I like that they have been here for a while. It makes sense that they would get such a good vibe of how humans are and how they would react instead of just watching from space. I wish the true reveal would have taken a little longer. More creepy stuff like in the original would be good. It took a while to get to the lizard stuff in the original.

I was missing the reverb at first, but like it now because anyone can be a lizard. Like the ships better in this one and that they're only over 29 cities. Also like their needs are less. Just water and a "chemical" or something.

ETA I agree with the previous poster, I liked the being able to relate to different people and classes that the old one had.

Edited by Ripley68, Nov 3, 2009 @ 10:40 PM.


#17

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Posted Nov 3, 2009 @ 11:12 PM

The remake is certainly better acted than the original ;-) And Anna makes a great John/Diana. But, there's something missing. For all the 80s cheeziness, the original had an emotional heart that, at least so far, the new series lacks. In the original, it really felt like ordinary people witnessing a global event and coming up with a grassroots response. Right from the beginning, we connected with characters from all walks of life: gardeners, scientists, thieves, old people, children. The driving question -- tying in with the Holocaust theme -- was, "How would you and your neighbors react to such a situation?" Now we have an FBI agent, a high level banker, and a priest. They are likeable enough, but they are already people in positions of some authority. Watching their stories may be cool, but it's not the same as imagining what could be our story (you, me, and the guy next door) unfold.


I felt the same. The new series is decent enough for me to watch the next few episodes but it lacks something the 80s version had. Even though the plot developed slower, I felt drawn in from the very beginning. Seeing the Visitor sentiment go from skepticism to suspicion, to fear, and finally resistance felt more natural. They did seem like people you could meet anywhere, ordinary people called upon to act in extraordinary ways. Each character bringing something different to the fight. There just seem to be a lot more depth in the older series that just isn't there in the newer one.

#18

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Posted Nov 3, 2009 @ 11:28 PM

It does seem, based on the pilot, to be the reverse of what Ron Moore did with BSG -- he took a shallow, fun original and painfully and earnestly examined all of the deep implications of its premise. This pilot on the other hand seems to want to jettison the earnestness of the original in favor of badassery and pretty images. I'm uneasy.

#19

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Posted Nov 3, 2009 @ 11:30 PM

I wonder if Morris Chestnut's girlfriend will find out she's pregnant and we get a new version of the Star Child, heck they could make it interesting and let the lizard twin live.

#20

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Posted Nov 3, 2009 @ 11:35 PM

As long as they avoid sparkly superpowers and groupies lining up to bang a two-year-old this time out, go for it.

#21

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Posted Nov 3, 2009 @ 11:54 PM

I am pretty certain that they did a gender switch and Taylor is going to be a gecko's baby daddy. He seems to be a merging of the girl who had the lizard baby and the kid who joined the brownshirts. Both those characters were interacting with the Visitor Youth leader in the original.

#22

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Posted Nov 4, 2009 @ 1:05 AM

Hey, I actually LIKED the concept of and soundtrack for (Ah... Ahhh... Ahhh... AHHH!) her Sparkly Super-Powers although I preferred their portrayal of Elizabeth's psychic abilities in the TV Series.

Edited by Athenaeus, Nov 4, 2009 @ 1:07 AM.


#23

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Posted Nov 4, 2009 @ 1:29 AM

I've never seen the original, but this episode sparked my interest and I want to add them to my Netflix queue. I'm just wondering- what order were they released in? Miniseries, then the TV series?

#24

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Posted Nov 4, 2009 @ 1:33 AM

V the mini series then V the final battle then V the series. If you don't have a tolerance for cheesy 80's you may want to skip the series and just watch the two mini series.

#25

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Posted Nov 4, 2009 @ 1:44 AM

In watching The Final Battle, yesterday, it seemed that The Visitors would sometimes drop that vocal effect. I don't know if that was intentional, or if it was a production error.

The Final Battle ran out of money in post-production, so they just dropped the voice work. No explanation was ever given for the aliens suddenly talking like humans.

I hope the new series does as well with the moments of genuine feeling and character interaction as the original mini did. For all its cheesiness and clunkiness, the mini had a real sense of story and human feeling that have held up well over the years. (I watched the mini when it debuted, and rewatched on SyFy this weekend, and was surprised to find there was a reason I liked it after all.) The Final Battle had some of that, but the original creator and writer of the mini, Kenneth Johnson, left before it was finished due to creative conflicts with the network. The series never managed to reach his level of writing skills, IMO.

But the new series is moving so quickly already, which I like on one level. But I'm skeptical they'll be able to slow down for moments like that. TV shows in the 80s had about 51 minutes of storytime each week, whereas it's about 42 minutes nowadays.

#26

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Posted Nov 4, 2009 @ 2:03 AM

I missed Abraham's role from TOV, though, because he really brought it home how much this was like the Nazi takeover of Europe, and all fascist invasions. I guess they're trying to be original about that, but having the Holocaust survivor right there in the mix, and his grandson joining the Hitler Youth, provided for some of the best moments in the original series.

I'm still hoping there will be a character who was saved from the Nazi's by being hidden in a suitcase when he was 8 months old, which would make him 70 now, so he could be the new Abraham.

#27

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Posted Nov 4, 2009 @ 2:15 AM

I would have liked to see a more suspenseful and creepy reveal of the visitor's true appearance. TOV's reveal was shocking. TRV told us about their reptilian nature first, followed by a shot of the agent I'd already suspected was the traitor. It lacked the punch of TOV.

Having said that, TRV managed overall to capture the uneasy essence of TOV. Anna was especially brilliant. She channeled Diana in a way that was fresh for the audience, but her eyes held nothing back. The visitor youth program was intriguing and so far faithful to the original. Overall I'm hoping for enough differences in TRV to keep it interesting, but some references to TOV.

#28

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Posted Nov 4, 2009 @ 2:25 AM

It seems that in the new version, all the V's are attractive and supercool, so I guess we won't be getting a Willie-type character in this one, which is really disappointing. Willie really resonated with me because he was a gentle soul who wasn't a soldier at all. He was just a regular guy who was drafted into the military and forced to do things he wouldn't do in his ordinary life, but tried to make the best of his situation. He reminded me of Laird on BSG quite a bit.

It would be nice to get the perspective of a V who just along for the ride and had nothing to do with the day-to-day decisions of obliterating humanity. And one that wasn't cloned to look like a supermodel who just stepped off the cover of GQ.

Also - I really, really hope that Jane Badler or Marc Singer pops up in this series. Jane's actually still pretty smokin' hot - it would be interesting if she had a cameo as maybe the "supreme commander" from the mothership back on the home planet. A girl can dream, right?;)

That would be great if they made cameos, but I would be more interested in seeing them play characters opposite their original roles, ŕ la Richard Hatch on BSG. It would be fun to see Marc playing a highly ranked V and Jane as Tyler's grandmother who is very vocal in her hatred for the V's and tries to stop him from joining the Peace Ambassador program.

Edited by Nikki125, Nov 4, 2009 @ 2:51 AM.


#29

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Posted Nov 4, 2009 @ 3:54 AM

I really, really hope that Jane Badler or Marc Singer pops up in this series. Jane's actually still pretty smokin' hot

You got that right! Anna must have a mother somewhere, no? (Jane Badler -- intergalactic MILF!)

Edited by Idiotboy, Nov 4, 2009 @ 3:56 AM.


#30

Athenaeus

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Posted Nov 4, 2009 @ 7:40 AM

You got that right! Anna must have a mother somewhere, no? (Jane Badler -- intergalactic MILF!)

-- IdiotBoy


That. Would. Seriously. ROCK.

And Jane Badler as Diana was one of the most beautiful/badasses of all time.

Edited by Athenaeus, Nov 4, 2009 @ 7:41 AM.