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Don and Betty: Don't Ask; Don't Tell


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#181

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Posted Oct 17, 2010 @ 12:11 PM

he's done nothing at all to merit this judgment.


He hasn't? He walked in on her when she was sitting on the toilet and stood there staring.

I guess I am the only one who didn't see anything wrong with holding his hand while they watched TV. It was childish of Betty but I hardly think Henry will think poorly of Betty if he were to find out.

Let's not forget, also, when she tells her troubles to Glen in the parking lot.


She told him she was unhappy an started to cry. I won't call that telling him her troubles.

#182

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Posted Oct 17, 2010 @ 12:29 PM

Betty asked Glen, a 9 or 10-year-old boy, to tell her that everything would be alright. When he repeatedly told her that he'd been forbidden to speak with Betty, she brushed him off with "I don't care." I was really feeling for Betty in this episode -- she had just learned about Don's frequent calls to her psychiatrist -- but that scene with Glen squicked me out the first time I saw it, and it always does on re-viewing as well.

#183

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Posted Oct 17, 2010 @ 1:09 PM

He hasn't? He walked in on her when she was sitting on the toilet and stood there staring.


Obviously Betty didn't think he merited that judgment after because that was before she turned to him for comfort and hung out with him when he ran away, telling his mother that Glen's problem was that he was lonely and not getting enough attention. He was 9 at the time, and I just don't get the impression that Betty's warnings to Sally were entirely about a fear that he was walking in on her in the bathroom.

#184

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Posted Oct 18, 2010 @ 3:15 AM

he's done nothing at all to merit this judgment.



He hasn't? He walked in on her when she was sitting on the toilet and stood there staring.


He was 9. What's Betty's excuse?

I guess I am the only one who didn't see anything wrong with holding his hand while they watched TV.


So I guess him walking in on her in the toilet didn't bother her that much, then.

Let's not forget, also, when she tells her troubles to Glen in the parking lot.



She told him she was unhappy an started to cry. I won't call that telling him her troubles.


No, it's worse. Don't you remember how scary it was, to see an adult crying, when you were a kid? The poor kid must have been terrified. Here's this adult lady he idolizes, sort of like the teacher you have a crush on at that age, and she's crying and making you roll down the window and talk to her, when your parents have already forbidden it.

Way to send the kid the message that adult boundaries make no sense and aren't to be paid attention to anyway, Betty. She treated Glenn abominably. If she minded that much that he walked in on her, she could have said something then and there, but she didn't. Instead she continued to visit, hold hands, and generally treat Glenn like a boyfriend rather than the child he was.

And now that he's 14, she treats him like an ex-boyfriend, rather than the child he is. "You could be friends with anyone." Yeah, it's always all about Betty. Nobody could just want to be friends with Sally just because he's known her longer than any other kid in the neighborhood, and because they both happen to be going through the same things--adjusting to living with stepfathers, dealing with divorced mothers and absent fathers. It's gotta be all about Betty.

I thought the scene with Don & Betty at the end was interesting, but there wasn't really enough to it, maybe because I really have completely stopped caring about what Betty thinks of Don, or how she feels about his remarriage or anything else. What she did to Carla was unforgivable. I hope Don writes Carla a letter of recommendation. She's worked for them 11 years, and Don surely can vouch for her. Betty won't like it, but Betty can choke on it.

It simply does not pay to be involved with Betty in any way, because she doesn't care what the truth is--she only cares about being obeyed. And this is true whether she's dealing with an adult or a child. The only person who's ever come away from Betty unscathed, is Don.

I get the feeling Henry is on his way out the door. I wonder where Betty will go, after that?

#185

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Posted Oct 18, 2010 @ 10:58 AM

Edited: Typed out a response and it turns out, I'm in the entirely wrong thread. Taking my response to the Glen thread.

Edited by stillshimpy, Oct 18, 2010 @ 10:59 AM.


#186

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Posted Apr 4, 2012 @ 10:36 AM

Taken over here from the "Tea Leaves" thread:


I was thinking about the Don/Betty relationship this morning.

Both these characters married bringing with them a lot of emotional baggage. Not that they are the only ones to have ever done that, but this was the 60s, people weren't as "self aware" as they seem to be today (lots more people in individual and couples/family counseling than back then). And as baggage goes, because this is TV, these two have a lot of very, very heavy baggage. They are two broken people. And their baggage sort of feeds off of each other in a way.

Don suffers from feeling unloved and unwanted. He was abandoned by his mother who was a prostitute. He was abused both physically and emotionally by his father who I'm sure made liberal use of the fact that Don's mother was a whore. I'm not sure about the woman who raised Don...I get the feeling she was emotionally removed because she didn't really want him in the first place. Don did make a comment in S1 or S2 that the man his stepmother remarried was decent to him. But the fact remains that he could not get out of that house fast enough. And when he got the chance to leave it all behind him permanently, and reinvent himself, he grabbed it.

Betty also suffers from feeling unloved. She was emotionally abused by her mother. Not sure about her father. She feels inadequate, "less-than".

So these two people find each other. Don marries Betty because he thinks she can provide completeness to his picture. Cultured woman, gorgeous woman, comes from money and a good family. Betty marries Don because she thinks he can complete her. She wants to feel loved, treasured, adored and not "less-than" anymore.

Marrying anyone to "complete" you when you have not been able to complete yourself is a bad idea. It was only a matter of time before this marriage started to break down and neither Don nor Betty had the tools to fix it.

I really think a part of Don wanted to stay faithful to Betty. But the part of him that needed more just took over. I am NOT excusing Don for his philandering, just making an observation.

And Betty just wanted to please Don. But there is no pleasing Don and with someone like Betty who has so many self esteem issues, she just withdrew into herself. Someone like Megan would have called Don out on this (though I'm not sure if Betty had done that, if it would have made any difference).

So these two get to the end of the road. Betty wants out and when Henry appears, it's an easy jump for her to make. Betty doesn't think she can exist as a single mother. So she marries Henry, again for the wrong reasons.

Don doesn't want Betty to divorce him. He needs that tie to domestic life and on many levels, he needs Betty. Being a husband and father is part of his image. Each time Betty challenges Don to admit an affair, tell the truth, open up and be more emotionally available, he gaslights her. This is an abusive tactic. He even used it when she told him she wanted a divorce. It wasn't until she (inadvertently, I believe) hit on the one thing that would strike Don at his core, that he relented. She told him she didn't love him anymore. I'm not sure she was telling the truth when she said that, but when I watched that scene, I saw Betty's desperation when she reached for that line.

Don relents. We're back to nobody loves Dick Whitman and he has no comeback for that. They divorce.

But...they still love each other. There is lots of unfinished business there.

#187

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Posted Apr 4, 2012 @ 10:43 AM

I agreed with this on the Tea Leaves thread, but just wanted to agree again. Though as I said there I think Don's stepmother was more emotionally cruel than just removed, and she's probably the bigger reason he has a mommy complex than his bio-mother dying on him. I always remember that scene when Gene was being born when the other expectant father said something about not being able to love a child who killed his mother via childbirth, and Don seemed to definitely consider that his bio-mom might have hated him for that.

But I'm actually really surprised by how interesting Don and Betty are to me now, and how much I like watching them together. In the beginning they seemed like just a set up where Don was the philandering husband with the childlike innocent wife who was clueless, but Betty's grown into a much weirder and more interesting character to me. I know she's often described as a monster when she's really lashing out, but I think she has it in her to understand Don because she's screwed up, and he her. They just never did it because they spent too much time playing roles with each other instead of being honest.

It shows up even more clearly for me when Don's with Megan-and Betty's with Henry, really. Because both those two are, imo, what the originals only pretended to be: Megan is pretty and happy; Henry is stable and protective. But I think they lack the damage that lets them truly relate to their new spouses and it leaves Don and Betty feeling more isolated than they are with each other in a way.

I admit I'm biased in that I would have loved to see their marriage continue. The couple from the top of the wedding cake who now know that neither is what they appear to be totally interested me.

#188

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Posted Apr 10, 2012 @ 6:22 PM

It's odd to me that not one of the women Don cheated on Betty with is better looking than her. And yes, I know that looks are not the whole impetus behind cheating, but still..

#189

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Posted Apr 12, 2012 @ 12:09 PM

It's odd to me that not one of the women Don cheated on Betty with is better looking than her. And yes, I know that looks are not the whole impetus behind cheating, but still...

Well, most women don't look like Grace Kelly clones. Also, I think Don went for women who weren't as put together and perfect as Betty because he felt he could have a different kind of sex with them. Madonna/whore in full glory.

#190

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Posted Apr 12, 2012 @ 12:42 PM

It's odd to me that not one of the women Don cheated on Betty with is better looking than her.


I think it's part of Don's self-destructive 'this is what I deserve' thing. I was watching earlier seasons and a couple of comments stood out: that he could never understand why she wanted him, and that she had her nose in the air like she was better than everyone else. Part of it is his whole masochistic, 'this is who I really am and it's disgusting' thing, and another has to do with thumbing his nose at Betty.

#191

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Posted Apr 12, 2012 @ 1:05 PM

He also once called her a spoiled Main Line brat.

#192

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Posted Apr 12, 2012 @ 1:17 PM

Wasn't that when he had found out about Henry Francis and had his massively hypocritical tantrum? The one where he called her a 'whore'? I don't know how much of that was an accurate reflection of his view of Betty, or his general issues with women showing.

#193

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Posted Apr 12, 2012 @ 2:16 PM

I vote for "general issues with women." Don's mother was a prostitute, which colors his perception of what women are like.

#194

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Posted Apr 12, 2012 @ 3:20 PM

A lot of it are Don's own issues. He has HUGE issues with woman in general, mommies and wives in particular. Don threw a hissy fit when Betty had the a/c salesman in the house. He dragged her out of bed in anger when he found out about Henry. I remember scratching my head and saying to myself "huh? How many women has this guy boinked? And he's pissed off at HER?"

Edited by rogaine2233, Apr 12, 2012 @ 3:24 PM.


#195

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Posted Apr 15, 2012 @ 7:15 AM

From the Betty thread

The whole timeline of Betty falling for Henry was weird and forced. They just really came off the trip to Rome where Betty had been shown prior to have resolved herself to settling back into her marriage and it seemed fairly amicable again. During and after the Rome trip, she and Don appeared to have re-bonded to an extent. Prior to the Rome trip, there was really nothing solid shown to depict Betty as being particularly drawn to Henry, other than a curiosity about something new and different.

Then with Wee Small Hours, the episode immediately following the Rome trip, she is suddenly infuriated and jealous enough over Henry not showing up to the fundraiser to drive all the way up to his office to throw a fit, "I wanted you there, bla bla bla". There never seemed to be any real build up on her part to her wanting to be with Henry, This is one of the rare instances of something on this show that I see as manufactured and unsubstantiated. I guess it is pretty much like Don and Megan's marriage..two impulsive relationships.



Maybe I'm a hopeless romantic. Maybe I'm a champion of first marriages or more aptly, long term relationships where there is a history and/or children involved. And I can't explain why I was so sad when Don and Betty broke up. Don was a horrible husband and he takes his baggage with him to his new life. I think he is incapable of being in a healthy relationship the way he currently is. Betty has a stack of her own issues. But people just didn't go to marriage counseling back then and not even to individual counseling much. Ironically, divorce was harder to obtain back then too, yet these two did it.

And both of them took their baggage with them. Betty is no happier with Henry because she's just not happy within herself. Don seems happy with Megan now, but IMO, he is just shoving all his issues under the bed, not just his libido, as people interpreted his dream last week to mean.

I am not hoping Don and Betty get back together because that's a soap opera script and not this show. It does happen in real life, but rarely. I'm happy that the animosity between them has cooled and they seem to appreciate the connection they both have. (though I don't think that's going to make Henry or Megan very happy)

I hope we get to see more of that relationship a bit more. I loved that Betty turned to Don when she needed reassurance about her thyroid nodule. I'd love to see a storyline where this continues to happen...I don't know...maybe Betty does get hooked on Mothers Little Helpers and she again confides in Don. In short, though I don't necessarily want to see these two together again (I think that as a couple, they are toxic to each other), I do want to see how their continued connection infects their individual marriages. I think that would be a very interesting plotline.

And I have to admit that yeah...I'd love to see one hot sex scene between the two. :)

#196

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Posted Apr 15, 2012 @ 7:35 AM

The whole timeline of Betty falling for Henry was weird and forced. They just really came off the trip to Rome where Betty had been shown prior to have resolved herself to settling back into her marriage and it seemed fairly amicable again. During and after the Rome trip, she and Don appeared to have re-bonded to an extent. Prior to the Rome trip, there was really nothing solid shown to depict Betty as being particularly drawn to Henry, other than a curiosity about something new and different.

Then with Wee Small Hours, the episode immediately following the Rome trip, she is suddenly infuriated and jealous enough over Henry not showing up to the fundraiser to drive all the way up to his office to throw a fit, "I wanted you there, bla bla bla". There never seemed to be any real build up on her part to her wanting to be with Henry, This is one of the rare instances of something on this show that I see as manufactured and unsubstantiated. I guess it is pretty much like Don and Megan's marriage..two impulsive relationships.


The timeline felt pretty real to me, especially when I re-watched those episodes later. Before their trip to Rome, you could see signs of Betty checking out of their marriage, and her thoughts starting to turn to Henry. When Betty was jealous and angry at Don in the past, at least she was engaged in their relationship. By this point, I think she had stopped caring so much and was allowing herself to think of a future without Don. A few days in Rome were not enough to distract her from the reality.

ETA: At previous points in their marriage, I think that trip would have made her hopeful, but I think because she had already lost faith in Don and had started thinking about Henry as an option, it was too little, too late. I think the trip was the tipping point, so that when the Dick Whitman thing came out later it was just the excuse she needed to leave. But in any case, when Betty stopped caring, it signaled a real sea change in their marriage.

Edited by BBDi, Apr 15, 2012 @ 8:56 AM.


#197

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Posted Apr 15, 2012 @ 8:16 AM

I think the Rome trip was a sort of fantasy interlude for their marriage. As you say, Betty was checking out of the marriage well before Rome - you could argue that she only resumed the marriage because she found out she was pregnant again. When they were in Rome, there were no children, no other commitments - she could play act at being the glamourous stranger with Don, who played the role of suitor. When they got back home, reality set in.

Watching over season one again - there are moments were Don is downright despicable to Betty - grabbing her after Roger's drunken visit and using the therapist's information as ammunition to hurt her? Continuing the nastiness after she (needlessly) tries to apologise by cooking a nice dinner? And all the while he's sleeping with Midge and pursuing Rachel (which - while Betty doesn't know about - she does suspect deep down that he's unfaithful). It's no wonder that she fell for Henry.

#198

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Posted Apr 15, 2012 @ 1:26 PM

The timeline felt pretty real to me, especially when I re-watched those episodes later. Before their trip to Rome, you could see signs of Betty checking out of their marriage, and her thoughts starting to turn to Henry. When Betty was jealous and angry at Don in the past, at least she was engaged in their relationship. By this point, I think she had stopped caring so much and was allowing herself to think of a future without Don. A few days in Rome were not enough to distract her from the reality.

That's how it struck me as well. Rome was a short-lived fantasy for Betty. Remember that it comes on the heels of Don asking Betty two episode earlier ("Guys Walks into...") how she'd feel about living in London when Bert Cooper speculated that's what PPL had in store for Don. Betty was visibly excited about the prospect, which quickly petered out. Then in Seven Twenty-Three, she goads Don into signing the contract with SC ("Don't you know where you'll be in three years?"). Initially Betty wasn't going to Rome even though Don had suggested it, but after her excitement about Henry's attentions after the presentation to the town council, she appeared to feel a little guilty, and decided during the night to tag along. They were there just long enough for her to visit the hairdresser and a dress shop, draw the attention of (at least) two Italian men and the admiration of Conrad Hilton, and indulge in some role-play sex with Don. That wasn't sustainable back in Ossining, and IMO Betty made it clear to Don she wasn't interested in even trying with the way she dismissed his gift of the Colisseum charm for her bracelet. (I've always thought Don looked and sounded very much like Dick Whitman in that scene, very tender, eager to please, almost a little shy -- and Betty kicked him to the curb.)

#199

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Posted Apr 15, 2012 @ 2:20 PM

I agree about the charm. Don is a complete cad but he remembered the importance of her charm bracelet and obviously, the trip meant something to him for him to give her that charm. She basically crapped all over that with her cold attitude. Yet another nail in the coffin of Don and Betty's marriage.

#200

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Posted Apr 15, 2012 @ 7:46 PM

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. There were very few moments showing Betty actually getting hooked on Francis enough to make her throwing such a fit in his office really very feasible at that point in their acquaintance. They had maybe a coffee shop business meeting and one or two kisses that he initiated and she didn't react to very much. It doesn't help that Francis and Betty simply have very low chemistry on screen (jmo), and it really was not much of a courtship, in length or in content. I don't see this marriage lasting, because it came on too fast and with not a whole lot of momentum or foundation behind it.

Watching over season one again - there are moments were Don is downright despicable to Betty - grabbing her after Roger's drunken visit and using the therapist's information as ammunition to hurt her? Continuing the nastiness after she (needlessly) tries to apologise by cooking a nice dinner? And all the while he's sleeping with Midge and pursuing Rachel (which - while Betty doesn't know about - she does suspect deep down that he's unfaithful). It's no wonder that she fell for Henry.


Oh I don't think anyone can really argue that Don was at all a good husband to Betty, he had some sparse moments here and there, but overall he was a real tool to her. What I am saying is that it was never really shown that Betty truly fell for Henry. I think he is more of an escape pod for her.

#201

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Posted Apr 15, 2012 @ 9:30 PM

What I am saying is that it was never really shown that Betty truly fell for Henry. I think he is more of an escape pod for her.

I agree. Even now, I just can't see what Betty and Henry have, what kind of bond they share that will make their marriage last. She fell for him because he was handsome, successful, and willing to rescue her. He fell for her because she was beautiful and in need of rescue. I don't think it will last, but we'll just have to wait and see.

#202

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Posted Apr 19, 2012 @ 6:07 PM

Just rewatched "The Grown Ups" as I am finishing up season 3 for the 2nd time. Don and Betty really broke each other's hearts. :(

I am waiting for the other shoe to drop re: the fact that Henry talked Betty out of trying to get anything from Don in a divorce settlement. That seemed like a pretty important point to just be a minor mention with no followup. I hope there are at least two more seasons.

Edited by newyawk, Apr 19, 2012 @ 6:07 PM.


#203

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Posted Apr 20, 2012 @ 6:36 AM

I loved Don and Betty together in Rome. I think their marriage was probably a lot like that in the beginning, when Betty was still modeling and they were living in Manhattan. Sounds a lot like what Don has with Negan now, but...more.

Perhaps their problems started when Don shoeboxed Betty into the housewife role in Ossining when Sally was born. Lord knows Betty has enough of her own baggage that there was no way she could deal with that and Don'semotional withdrawal without lashing out in her own passive aggressive way.

I don't think these two should be married again because they are toxic together. But they have a lot of sweetness together, too....even in Ossining.

Megan stands up for herself and gives Don a lot of what he probably had with Betty in the beginning. I can't imagine her as a mother or suburban housewife. But even so, their marriage is flat to me.

#204

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Posted Apr 22, 2012 @ 8:14 AM

I don't think these two should be married again because they are toxic together. But they have a lot of sweetness together, too....even in Ossining.

Yes they do and I love the occasional scenes where they're tender with one another, obviously remembering the past and wishing they had been kinder. Like when Betty was waiting alone in their empty house for Don to bring the keys. When she told him her new house (and maybe her life with Henry) wasn't perfect, I felt so sad for her. I think she married in haste, believing that Henry would make up for all Don's lies and she probably regrets it now. Calling Don about the lump was a good example of how she still sees him as her protector in some ways.

It is fun when they make tiny digs at the new marriages, though. I loved "Mortica and Lurch," and I was so hoping Betty would see Don in his yellow plaid sport coat. She could have told the kids, "Say hello to Pinky Lee for me."

#205

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Posted Apr 22, 2012 @ 4:59 PM

I do think Betty and Don get back together--just not this season. And it may only be brief...
Theres certainly a hint at the possibility.

Betty needs to face up to the fact that she is the source of her own unhappiness. She is a product of her generation that believes her happiness hinges on a man. I would love to see Betty with some self reflection and be okay with a little vulnerability. Too many of us still think we're only as good as we are beautiful.

Don is trying to right all his wrongs from what we see to how he approaches marriage the second time around. The thing I see with men who remarry women significantly younger like Don is that over time they are not happy because they are tring to recapture something from their youth that they cant sustain. After awhile it gets old when the other person cannot relate or understand elements of life that ARE generational. Its comforting to be with someone you've shared deep and meaningful parts of history together--like raising children.

I think enough time has passed that Betty can forgive Don for keeping all his secrets from her, although I'm not sure she can forgive all the cheating. Regardless, I think she does realize she is not in love with Henry.

#206

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Posted May 14, 2012 @ 2:22 PM

Don treated her terribly and I can feel her pain when she reads his little mash note.


Don and his notes! I wonder if Betty was recalling the one note he wrote to her after she'd kicked him out over Bobbi Barrett. The kids were in his hotel room and he wrote her a short note saying they were watching TV and he was watching the back of their heads...etc. He ended it by saying he loved her (and one of her biggest complaints to him at one time was that he never said he loved her). She crumbled after that and let the bastard move back in. And of course, he started cheating on her all over again soon thereafter.

I used to hope for a Betty/Megan showdown early on in the season where Betty would let Megan in on all the cheating Don has done. But of course, we have since found out that Megan most likely knows about it all. Still, Betty doesn't know that. I'm not overly impressed with JJ's acting skills, but she channels Betty very well and you could almost see a lot of these thoughts play across her face when she read that note from Don to Megan. So now she's probably thinking "he's told her all about his past, he doesn't cheat on her, they have a fabulous apartment, he wouldn't let me have a/c but turns it on for her, etc., etc.

#207

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Posted May 14, 2012 @ 3:53 PM

She crumbled after that and let the bastard move back in

I had the impression Betty "caved" because she was pregnant. Don comes home thinking she has forgiven him and believed his note, then they sit at the DR table and she drops the pregnancy news. He takes her hand and they look at each other wordlessly for about a minute. But I think they each know, without putting it into words, that this development is why Betty is taking Don back. YMMV, of course. :-)

And of course, he started cheating on her all over again soon thereafter.

I think S3 Don tried to be a good and faithful husband up until the post-Rome incident discussed above. Yes, there was the dalliance with the stewardess in Baltimore, but that was a one-nighter that he rationalized away because of his birthday. He didn't start an affair until post-Rome, when Betty's disillusionment with their marriage was much clearer. (Again, not excusing Don, just explaining how I saw it.)

#208

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Posted May 14, 2012 @ 4:04 PM

Yes, there was the dalliance with the stewardess in Baltimore, but that was a one-nighter that he rationalized away because of his birthday


Yet can you imagine celebrating his birthday this way with Megan waiting at home?

Don was an awful husband to Betty. Not that she was perfect herself and their baggage together was toxic, but it's probably very painful for Betty to see that Don is apparently being a very good husband to Megan now. And she has no idea why...or that he is beginning to see his own part in the implosion of their marriage. No wonder Betty has turned to food for comfort. Given her past issues with food growing up, I'm willing to bet that she started gaining weight after Don rejected her advances in the final scene of S4.

Interesting take on the note. I forgot Betty was pregnant with Gene then...but Don didn't know it at the time, right? I still think the note softened her though. Don has a way with words.

Edited by rogaine2233, May 14, 2012 @ 4:04 PM.


#209

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Posted May 14, 2012 @ 8:46 PM

Don was an awful husband to Betty. Not that she was perfect herself and their baggage together was toxic, but it's probably very painful for Betty to see that Don is apparently being a very good husband to Megan now.


Absolutely, rogaine2233. That accounts for the depth of Betty's current rage, for me. Life was hard enough, just with Betty being Betty...but to have escaped the monster that was HER Don, and keep finding clues that he is not a monster to Megan would be very hard to deal with.

#210

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Posted May 17, 2012 @ 10:03 AM

From the Dark Shadows episode thread:

: Rogaine2233 The thing is that once again, Megan made it about HER and Don. It really isn't. And if Betty would realize this and play it accordingly, it could neutralize Megan.



GilgiI don't get this. Betty's issue is with Don's happiness in general and his relationship with Megan in particular. She can't see past her own jealousy. And Don is clearly uninterested in having any relationship with Betty at all (which was largely the case when he was married to her).


I'm saying the underlying motivation for the action is all about Betty and Don...and Betty's anger at Don. She's not angry at Megan, though it's easy to put all of that on the "evil 2nd wife". Don abused Betty terribly for 11 years by lying, cheating, gaslighting her and he's never once apologized TO her for it, though he's admitted his role in the demise of his marriage to others. I'm saying Betty's actions are about the relationship with Don, which still exists as a breathing thing, partially because they have 3 children together so will always be connected and partially because Betty's never had closure.