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Left at the Altar: Soaps' Unpopular Opinions


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#2461

paganalexandria

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Posted May 6, 2012 @ 7:40 PM

I floved Brenda and Jax. They were my dream couple. I never liked Sonny and after the wire I hated him and still hate him to this day. The only difference is that now my hatred burns hotter than a thousand suns in regards to his character. Jax and Brenda started when I was in college. Personally, I thought they had mad chemistry but in all pairings we like who we like and ymmv.


Natalie Wood you are so in my head with this statement. I have always thought Brenda and Jax were really the money couple in the S/B/J triangle. Jax seemed to really love everything about her, unlike Sonny who said he loved her but their relationship was always about him. My biggest regret of the clusterfuck of Vanessa's last return was her little boy did not belong to Jax.
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#2462

susieq147

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Posted May 6, 2012 @ 8:06 PM

Speaking of unpopular headwriters. I actually liked Hogan Sheffer when he first started on ATWT. It was his writing that brought me back to that show after the horrific late 90's. Not all his stories were winners but I do have good memories of Katie and Henry on the island and Emily, Rose and Carly at the "spa". HS was no Douglas Marland but at least the show was entertaining and it hadn't been that in a long time.
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#2463

WhitneyWhit

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Posted May 6, 2012 @ 11:37 PM

Speaking of unpopular headwriters. I actually liked Hogan Sheffer when he first started on ATWT

Sheffer is the one who got me hooked on ATWT, I had always been an OLTL watcher but had to take a break during that time (because, anyone who watched during that times knows that it was..damn) and I loved what I saw. I loved Henry and Katie scheming, I remember being embarrassed for her when they all blew up in her face at the Endicott awards - and being kinda pissed that Jake, Molly and Chris had the nerve to act all high and mighty, and act like they were better than her.

Speaking of Katie, I don't know if this is an UO, but I didn't like her and Henry's romantic relationship. Their friendship was great, but the romance and marriage was ridiculous.

I also have an UO about AMC, and that is I have never understood the appeal of Erica Kane. Talk about queen of the hypocrites. She was always the first to judge someone for something she did in the past. And this was never more obvious than during the baby switch sl. Erica was running around talking about what kind of person would take a child away from a mother. All the while I was thinking uhh,I don't know Erica, umm, you!
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#2464

steve91199

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Posted May 7, 2012 @ 4:32 AM

I've always thought it was an unpopular opinion to say you DIDN'T like his early ATWT. The soap press lavished praise on him (and no one else, it seemed like), he got gushing profiles in publications like the New Yorker, and even now, the common comment if you don't like his recent writing is that his ATWT/early ATWT was good.

I could never get past the appalling writing for Craig, which was a blueprint for every single male character Sheffer has focused on since. I also hated the whole idea of Barbara as some campy joke.
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#2465

dubbel zout

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Posted May 7, 2012 @ 11:02 AM

I've also never understood what in the hell Lesley was supposed to be wearing.


It was the '80s. Ours is not to wonder why.
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#2466

espie

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Posted May 7, 2012 @ 1:18 PM

From what I've seen of Max & Maggie, they were a fun couple

Not for me. I loathed Maggie from the moment she arrived. I was a Luna fan, and the fact that Max was hitting on Maggie before Luna was cold in the grave ruined any possibility of my ever liking Maggie. That story also killed any like I had remaining for Max... which wasn't much.
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#2467

BondGirl

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Posted May 7, 2012 @ 2:22 PM

I also have an UO about AMC, and that is I have never understood the appeal of Erica Kane. Talk about queen of the hypocrites. She was always the first to judge someone for something she did in the past. And this was never more obvious than during the baby switch sl. Erica was running around talking about what kind of person would take a child away from a mother. All the while I was thinking uhh,I don't know Erica, umm, you!


Hell, yes. She kidnaps Maria's baby and taunts the woman for MONTHS walking around it with, knowing full well Maria's grieving the death of her child, but blasts Babe for doing the same thing to Bianca. I wish someone had thrown that in her face. Plus, she's cheated on several of her men, or been the "other woman" several times--she carries on a months-long affair with Dimitri, knowing full well that he's married (cheated on Travis with Jack, then later slept with Jack while he was married to Laurel), never once showing a trace of guilt or remorse over it--if anything, she had the nerve to somehow be mad at Laurel. But Maria sleeps with Dimitri ONCE in a moment of mutual grief and pain and Erica brands her a tramp and never forgives her or lets her or Dimitri forget it? WTF?

Erica had her moments, but she was mostly an uber-egotistical, self-centered, hypocritical bitch.
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#2468

yearoftheroostr

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Posted May 7, 2012 @ 3:12 PM

As a former AMC viewer (watched heavily in the 90s and intermittently from the time Leo died on forward), it was easier for me to accept Erica as the stuck-on-herself bitch that she was because I never felt that the show or Susan Lucci ever let me forget it. I'll add that she was never held up as a paragon of virtue that all men ought to want and all women ought to aspire to be.

AMC can be accused of being full of shit in regards to plenty, but the portrayal of Erica Kane isn't one of them, IMO. They have always stayed true to what she was as a character and have had her suffer the consequences of her actions more times than I can count, which is why I ultimately have a more favorable view of her than most of the other ABCD bitches (my Blair Cramer being the exception).
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#2469

Anacharsis

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Posted May 7, 2012 @ 4:00 PM

I also have an UO about AMC, and that is I have never understood the appeal of Erica Kane.


Ditto. I never understood why anyone put up with her or why men fell all over themselves to be with her -- not at nine, when I first started watching AMC; not at twenty-nine, when SL won her emmy; and not at thirty-nine, when I had a bit more life experience to base my opinions. She was high-maintenance, hypocritical, selfish, and shallow year after year after year. I don't miss Erica Kane (or her daughters) one little bit. Now Tad, Brooke, Adam, David, and Opal are another story.
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#2470

Lilac4381

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Posted May 7, 2012 @ 9:23 PM

I floved Brenda and Jax. They were my dream couple.


Ditto. I've loved many television couples through the years but I don't think any of them could ever top Jax and Brenda in my heart. The writing was not always great for them (hello 2003!) but Ingo and Vanessa's sweet, sexy, and extremely easy chemistry really made Jax and Brenda a dream come true fictional couple for me. Plus, the writing was so much stronger back in that era. Sonny and Brenda were so huge and I was a fan of them but when Jax came and rescued her in the rain after Sonny went back to Lily, my allegiance changed and I was a fan for life. To see Brenda fall in love with her best friend and be accepted after so many years of torment with Sonny was a delight to watch and just so darn romantic.

It still boggles my mind how they tried to ruin J/B when VM left in 03' and that her kid did not turn out to be Jax's. Talk about a lost opportunity - it seemed like such a no brainer to go that route for a resurrection of S/B/J but alas, no such luck. For me, Jax and Brenda's "happy ending" was them in bed after making love and before she went off the cliff. They were so insanely in love and committed to one another. That's how I always like to remember them.
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#2471

UseYourIllusion

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Posted May 7, 2012 @ 10:44 PM

Not for me. I loathed Maggie from the moment she arrived. I was a Luna fan, and the fact that Max was hitting on Maggie before Luna was cold in the grave ruined any possibility of my ever liking Maggie. That story also killed any like I had remaining for Max... which wasn't much.


Oh, I definitely think it's odd that they were together so soon after Luna's death, but since I think Max belonged with Gabrielle (they're in Argentina together, damn it! NO ONE WILL TAKE THAT AWAY FROM ME, EVER!), I can only say I mind that so much, LOL.

Edited by UseYourIllusion, May 7, 2012 @ 10:44 PM.

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#2472

BondGirl

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Posted May 8, 2012 @ 12:44 PM

It wasn't just Maggie, Max was dating within TWO MONTHS of Luna's death, although that was later explained as him being in denial about his grief. Maggie just irritated me and her obnoxious personality was obviously a lame attempt to set up a "classic" "Slap, Slap, Kiss" style romance between her and Max.

And I hate that type of romance. Here's an UO for you. I LIKE happy couples. I don't think they're boring or whatever negative label people like to put on them, and I hate the contrived bullshit that crops up in order to create drama. If they have to go through hell, at least them go through it together, rather than stuff that results in them breaking up and reconciling half a dozen times.
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#2473

tam1MI

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Posted May 8, 2012 @ 8:14 PM

I could never get past the appalling writing for Craig


Whereas Hogan Sheffer's Craig, as embodied by Hunt Block, was what drew me to ATWT and made me a fan. When Hunt Block left, so did I. Now granted, I had never seen original incarnation Craig (the extent of my knowledge was "Didn't he blow up a car or something?")and Block had a way with a snarky line** that I always got a kick out of (his Craig reminded me a great deal of Mason Capwell from SANTA BARBARA). However I will agree that Sheffer seems to be trying to replicate the "Craig" magic* on every show he goes to, with wildly varying results (sometimes it kinda sorta works, other times it just dismally fails).

As for Barbara, I'm deeply ambivalent about her character during Sheffer's tenure. Yes, she was cartoony and over the top, but Colleen Zenk Pinter carried it off well... and cartoony, over-the-top Barbara was able to become a mainstay on her show while many actresses in her age range got pushed to the back burner or off their shows completely. So for me it is definitely a double-edged sword.

Here's my UO: I hate, HATE, HATE child custody battle storylines on soaps. I don't find them dramatic and I don't find them compelling, I find them sickening and revolting. I hated when Vicky was battling Grant for custody of their son on ANOTHER WORLD, I hated when Jennifer was battling Craig over same on AS THE WORLD TURNS... nothing is guaranteed to get me to turn off a soap quicker than if a story is launched where two characters snipe and backstab and feud over a helpless child. With extra bonus Hate Points if they include a scene where one character triumphantly rips said child out of the other's arms and marches off holding it like it was fucking trophy. Those types of stories were all over soaps a few years back, and I am convinced they were instrumental in killing off the daytime drama.



* - Or lack thereof, as the case may be.

** - One of my all time favorite Hunt Block-as-Craig lines of dialgue was this:

(A female character is trying to sex up Craig to get information out of him)

FEMALE: "Oooooh, you have SUCH big hands.... and you know what they say, big hands..."

CRAIG (completely deadpan): "Big gloves?"
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#2474

SiameseCatLady

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Posted May 8, 2012 @ 8:16 PM

Ditto. I never understood why anyone put up with her or why men fell all over themselves to be with her -- not at nine, when I first started watching AMC; not at twenty-nine, when SL won her emmy; and not at thirty-nine, when I had a bit more life experience to base my opinions. She was high-maintenance, hypocritical, selfish, and shallow year after year after year. I don't miss Erica Kane (or her daughters) one little bit. Now Tad, Brooke, Adam, David, and Opal are another story.

That's always how I felt - I had to put up with Erica to get to see my faves, which is why I was so happy to get a VCR so I could FF through her trauma and drama to get to the good stuff.
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#2475

steve91199

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Posted May 8, 2012 @ 8:54 PM

(his Craig reminded me a great deal of Mason Capwell from SANTA BARBARA).


Mason had a lot of vulnerability. If Hunt Block had been playing Mason, then when Mary died, he probably would have kicked her corpse.
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#2476

susieq147

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Posted May 8, 2012 @ 8:56 PM

I also liked Hunt Block as Craig. I liked him with Carly. But then again I liked Carly with everyone she was ever paired with. I would say that is because I thought Maura West sparked with every man she played a scene with.

I did NOT like Cady McClain as Rosanna. First, the character was so unlike the original Rosanna and second, I never cared for CM. Didn't like her as Dixie on AMC either.

And to continue with UO's about ATWT, I liked Katie. And I also liked all her romantic pairings. Except for Henry. I thought they played together better as friends.

But perhaps my most UO would be I liked Noelle Beck as Lily. I just never thought Martha Byrne was all that great. I didn't dislike her, just didn't get why people thought she was irreplacable.
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#2477

Spazzo47

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Posted May 8, 2012 @ 9:26 PM

I don't know if this is a UO or not, but on AMC I hated the Santos family. I cannot think of a single one that I liked. And I will go to my grave believing that Brian Bodine was Hayley's best pairing. I cannot think of a single redeeming quality that Mateo had. Not a single one.
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#2478

steve91199

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Posted May 8, 2012 @ 10:00 PM

I never bought the Carly/Craig relationship. They just did a lot of banter, which amounted to Maura West spitting out her lines while Hunt Block pouted and made strange noises. I never believed that HB's Craig, who lived to destroy people, would ever want to deal with someone as out of control as Carly.

I did NOT like Cady McClain as Rosanna. First, the character was so unlike the original Rosanna and second, I never cared for CM. Didn't like her as Dixie on AMC either.


I thought CM was more like the character than Yvonne Perry had ever really been. Cold and harsh on the surface but vulnerable underneath. I think that's what Rosanna was always supposed to be, but I felt like Perry mostly veered towards simpering or, in later years, Cruella Devil bitchery.

But perhaps my most UO would be I liked Noelle Beck as Lily. I just never thought Martha Byrne was all that great. I didn't dislike her, just didn't get why people thought she was irreplacable.


I never liked Lily (actually the only time I liked her was when Heather Rattray was in the role), and I put part of that on Martha Byrne's princessy acting demeanor, although that was also part of the character. I thought Noelle was fine in the role, it's just that she had no chemistry with Jon Hensley, and she struggled in her scenes with Lily's kids. I preferred her when she was battling with Lucinda. I think if ATWT had had better writing, then she would have had much more of a chance.

I don't know if this is a UO or not, but on AMC I hated the Santos family. I cannot think of a single one that I liked.


I liked Julia the most of the Santos family. Mostly because she was nonoffensive. Anita was just a drip with a clothespin stuck over her nose, Mateo was prissy and abusive, and Maria was self-righteous and a cold fish. Papa was a hatemonger. I liked the actress who played Isabella.

I actually enjoyed Maria a lot more when she came back in 2002 and was so clearly screwed up.
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#2479

KerleyQ

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Posted May 9, 2012 @ 10:31 AM

I'm just going to say it - I don't think Kelly Monaco and Michael Easton have come even remotely close to recapturing their Livvie/Caleb chemistry as Sam/McBain. I suppose it doesn't help that he's supposed to be happily involved with Natalie and raising Liam, so he would just look like an even bigger douche than ever if he suddenly becomes all interested in Sam and dumps Nat/Liam to move on because he met someone while on a temp assignment in another city. And I honestly think that, as Sam, KMo has more chemistry with Jason than McBain, even if Jason is running away with the "World's Worst Husband" award these days.
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#2480

steve91199

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Posted May 9, 2012 @ 10:42 AM

I never even thought they had that much chemistry on PC. The first story, yes, but after that, when they had no idea what to do with him and just brought him back for the sake of it, he mostly just looked bored and asleep, as did she. 10 years hasn't changed anything.
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#2481

Ambrosefolly1

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Posted May 11, 2012 @ 6:54 PM

On General Hospital, I rather liked Emily and Nikolas together the second time around. It was better because
  • They toned down all that magic love crap
  • Weirdly it helped that they pursued other relationships when neither one of them could deal with Emily's rape by Nik's doppleganger. Emily figured out that Nik wasn't the perfect prince and Nik realized Emily couldn't everything for him
  • The relationship was based more on Emily being supportive of Nikolas during a time of difficultity and less about grinding up beloved characters to give their story weight.
It reminded me of stories of divorced couples that found their way back to each other.
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#2482

Scorpiosrule

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Posted May 12, 2012 @ 11:11 AM

and Nik realized Emily couldn't everything for him


Nik refusing to have surgery because of his tumor--meaning seeing Emily after she died, refutes this. He refused to have the surgery because that would mean she would be gone. That told me that Nik did see Emily as everything for him.

I liked Amber Tamblyn's Emily. I loathed Natasha's Emily--the girl could not act. So much of her dialogue came off sugary sweet, with a lot of "hmmms...yeah, mmhmmm" between her lines. Just horrid.
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#2483

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Posted May 12, 2012 @ 11:38 AM

I liked AT's Emily until she got involved with Zander....her superbitch attitude towards the Q's after they got together turned me off to her forever.

LOATHED Mr. Kidnapper/roofie slipper by the way, always felt that CB was overrated and hated that her relationship with Juan (who I did like, and I'm the only one I guess!) was thrown under the bus for Zem.
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#2484

TaKeela

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Posted May 12, 2012 @ 11:47 AM

QUOTE
Another World's Cass Winthrop belonged with Kathleen McKinnon--not Frankie Frame

I 100% agree. SS and JO had amazing chemistry. I liked Frankie but she did not belong with Cass. If you were a long time viewer you would have seen the growth of Cass and Kathleen and not just some woman that the writers dyed her hair "Red" to try and make us forget about the true love of Cass' life.

I will touch on Y & R too, It USED to be must see tv years ago, now it has gotten totally out of hand. Victor, Nikki, Victor and dare I say it "Sharon". That's what did it for me. Come on that was just wrong on all fronts.

GH. I never ever ever ever liked Brenda. So when she left, she was not missed. The writers have turned it into General Mafia. I loved JJ though!

DOOL. Bo and Carly just wrong again!! It didn't matter which BO either. It just didn't work.

OLTL. The whole rape thing, and then they become friends which brings me back to GH's Luke and Laura.

SB haha I barely remember it now.

AMC. Omg there are not enough hours in the day.
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#2485

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Posted May 12, 2012 @ 12:12 PM

I don't like murder mysteries. Every time someone dies, why does it have to be a damn mystery? They are rarely done well, they go on for way too long, and in the end no one really gives a rat's ass.

The only one I really remember liking was Who Shot JR?, and I was in third grade then.
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#2486

yearoftheroostr

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Posted May 12, 2012 @ 2:28 PM

On the subject of GH's Brenda Barrett: Not only am I and always have been a fan of the character, my love for her has never wavered throughout her various stints (in spite of terrible storylines and Guza's attempt to marginalize her to prop up the lesser female characters that littered the canvas).

If anything, her last return illustrated just how far that show's characterizations of female characters had devolved since she'd left. Aside from Robin Scorpio, not a single female character was worth investing in or rooting for because they were either weak-minded messes or catty bitches (sometimes even both). While I'll agree that Brenda stuck out like a sore thumb because she was from another (superior) era of GH, I believe it had everything to do with the fact that she came across better than 99% of the pathetic heifers on that show.
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#2487

katierose295

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Posted May 12, 2012 @ 5:26 PM

I have no idea whether these are UO or not:

I liked Cass and Lila on AW. When she was pregnant and started having cramps and was rushed to the hospital, he drew her a picture of the baby saying, "Don't worry. I'm fine, mom" and I was just soooo smitten. I thought that they had a lot of chemistry and they made me smile with their bickering.

I was taping the show on VCR, back then, and it shorted out for like ten minutes one day. When it came back on, it was to Cass and Lila just ending their first kiss and I SCREAMED, "NOOOOOOO!", because I'd just missed it. My mom came running into the room, thinking I had just lost a limb or something. LOL! I was a crazy fan of theirs.

I also liked Cameron and Amanda until he went and had "grief sex" with Josie on the beach, when Amanda and Gary were trapped in a cave in. That never would have happened and it pissed me off.

I didn't like Sofia, who spent a year whining at her boyfriend (Gabe? Rafe? something like that) that she's "promised her dying mother that she's remain a virgin until her wedding night" and then went and slept with Matt on a business trip. Ugh!

I also didn't like Carl/Rachel (I never saw his rivalry with Mac Cory, so to me, he just Victor Newman with a ponytail.) or Vicky/Jake (who were always so smug.) I never seem to like shows' designated "super-couples."

But I was team Grant/Cindy and I felt like the show should have given them a real love story, because they were awesome. There was one SL with a dragonfly pin with a listening device in it, and Paulina was looking for it to prove something, and it wound up on Cindy's Christmas tree...? Anyway, I just remember Grant and Cindy jumping all over excitedly because they had won over Paulina/Joe and it cracked me up. (I also didn't like Paulina/Joe.)

Canceling AW for Passions was a travesty.
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#2488

steve91199

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Posted May 12, 2012 @ 6:21 PM

I liked Cass and Lila on AW. When she was pregnant and started having cramps and was rushed to the hospital, he drew her a picture of the baby saying, "Don't worry. I'm fine, mom" and I was just soooo smitten. I thought that they had a lot of chemistry and they made me smile with their bickering.


I enjoyed Cass and Lila too. I had started watching some old tapes around this time and had no idea why the show had forgotten that Cass used to be fun. He had become a very sorrowful character. Richard Culliton's brief return as headwriter seemed to bring back that humor. I think that was the highlight of AW's last few years.

I didn't like Sofia, who spent a year whining at her boyfriend (Gabe? Rafe? something like that) that she's "promised her dying mother that she's remain a virgin until her wedding night" and then went and slept with Matt on a business trip. Ugh!


Nick. I thought she was a drip, and kind of smug.

But I was team Grant/Cindy and I felt like the show should have given them a real love story, because they were awesome. There was one SL with a dragonfly pin with a listening device in it, and Paulina was looking for it to prove something, and it wound up on Cindy's Christmas tree...? Anyway, I just remember Grant and Cindy jumping all over excitedly because they had won over Paulina/Joe and it cracked me up. (I also didn't like Paulina/Joe.)


The writing was a mess but I just adored Cindy, and I liked her with Grant when he wasn't terrorizing her. (This is the only role I have ever liked Mark Pinter). I liked the messy Paulina/Cindy relationship - Cindy was so desperate to prove herself to Paulina. I liked that Cindy was a crazy woman but yet also so vulnerable and had complex relationships with characters like Paulina and Gary.

My UO would probably be that I liked John Littlefield, the Gary recast, more than I did Tim Gibbs.

(never really liked any Josie)
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#2489

vixenstud

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Posted May 12, 2012 @ 8:21 PM

Hated Joe, he was as boring as a gnat's nut....Joe/Paulina was like Cass/Frankie, and I've made my feelings known about the latter pages ago.
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#2490

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Posted May 13, 2012 @ 5:32 PM

I'm shallow and I admit it: I loved Joe mostly because Joe Barbara was so drop-dead gorgeous and sweet. God bless the propmaster who put such teeny-tiny bath towels on the set when Joe was shown "just out of the shower".

I also preferred John Littlefield to Tim Gibbs as Gary Sinclair. I think I liked Amy Carlson's Josie best, but Nadine Stenovitch was there so briefly (and so scarily identical to her predecessor) that I didn't have a chance to get to know her. I will say I (unpopularly) hated the original Josie (Alexandra Wilson) and her whole "woe is me, I'm poor, no one will like me" stuff when she arrived. Everyone was all "Oh, Matt and Josie! They're so Romeo and Juliet!" I was more "Oh, you think your life's the pits, Josie? Cry me a river. Your mom is so awesome--how'd you grow up to be such a drip???"

My favorite of the 1990s younger set was the basically-forgotten Tomas Rivera (Diego Serrano). Nice guy who always seemed to finish last.
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