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Continuity & Nitpicks: Bite Me, Details


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#1111

Cindy McLennan

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Posted Mar 16, 2014 @ 6:19 PM

They shouldn't.  I think Matt will only get his memories back if he were to become a vampire.  

 

ETA: Plus, none of Katherine's compulsions ended when she became human again, nor when Damon murdered her, or when she possessed Elena, so there's no reason to assume that it will start now.  Of course, this show also seems to think that Katherine's the worst of all of them (while standing next to Damon and Stefan and mere hours away from Klaus) and deserves to go to hell more than Kol, so who knows what will happen in upcoming episodes?

 

 


Why do you think this? What have we seen on screen to support this?


#1112

KatWay

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Posted Mar 16, 2014 @ 6:31 PM

Don't remember any specific circumstances, but I just think it would be really problematic for vampires in general if their victims could remember their compulsions after the death of the vampire. Vampires drop like flies on this show, wouldn't a lot more people know about vampires then? They're not exactly subtle.


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#1113

scarynikki12

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Posted Mar 17, 2014 @ 12:35 AM

Katherine could have said something about trying to go to that town she compelled after becoming human, only for them to turn on her for the mass mind-rape, and she barely escaped with her life before returning to Mystic Falls.  Lexi compelled that bartender back in season 1 before she died and there was no indication that Stefan or Damon had to go back and compel him to forget all over again.  I think this is a case where we have to assume that, since the show has given zero indication that compulsion breaks when the castor dies, while making a point of showing that it does happen when the human victim becomes a vampire, death won't break their powers.  The show can always change its mind and say that the permanent death of the castor does break compulsion and return memories, but right now it hasn't done that.


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#1114

mac123x

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Posted Mar 17, 2014 @ 8:47 AM

 I think this is a case where we have to assume that, since the show has given zero indication that compulsion breaks when the castor dies, while making a point of showing that it does happen when the human victim becomes a vampire, death won't break their powers.  The show can always change its mind and say that the permanent death of the castor does break compulsion and return memories, but right now it hasn't done that.

 

Elijah compelled Katherine to stay in the tomb.  That compulsion broke when Alaric (then Elena) daggered Elijah.

 

Kol compelled Damon to kill Jeremy.  That compulsion broke when Kol died.

 

So compelling vampires to commit certain actions definitely breaks when the compeller dies.  Whether this applies to complused humans hasn't been addressed as far as I remember.
 


Edited by mac123x, Mar 17, 2014 @ 8:51 AM.

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#1115

KatWay

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Posted Mar 17, 2014 @ 8:59 AM

 

Elijah compelled Katherine to stay in the tomb.  That compulsion broke when Alaric (then Elena) daggered Elijah.

 

Kol compelled Damon to kill Jeremy.  That compulsion broke when Kol died.

 

Yeah, but that's different since it only works for Originals anyways, right? And they don't even have to die die, they just need to temporarily die for the compulsion to be broken.

 

Again, I'm just thinking this is due to convenience. Otherwise it would be really annoying if they had to rely on the Original feeling friendly if they ever wanted to get rid of the compulsion. But vampire - human? I can't see it. If only because vampires compel humans all the time and if they all remembered after the vamp died, well this secret would be even less of a secret than it is now. 

 

But since when has this show ever given a damn about logic or continuity? Whatever is convenient for the plot!


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#1116

Ptzop

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Posted Mar 18, 2014 @ 8:27 AM

I don't actually think this has been inconsistent.  Humans remember compulsions only if they become vampires. Jeremy doesn't seem to remember being compelled multiple times and he is supernatural now. Vamps remember compulsions when the vampire who compelled them dies, or "dies" in a contrived temporary way.


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#1117

Sonicsean34

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Posted Mar 22, 2014 @ 1:24 AM

Yeah it is either either an Original only thing (compelled humans and vamps remember) or just vamps as a recipient thing (which as only originals can compel vamps is not much of a difference but avoids a lot of humans suddenly remembering stuff every-time an original gets dagger-ed) Then again I have always found Original compulsion interesting in the subtle differences the writers sometimes remember.

 

Like when Elijah cruelly and pointlessly made Slater stake himself for no reason, Slater was aware of it as he was being compelled and while he was carrying it out. Every-time a human has been compelled to inflict harm on themselves they were never aware of the compulsion (no "and forget we had this talk" clause in the command) It was always "stab yourself" "okay cool!" instead of them complaining as they were getting stabby.

 

It wasn't until we had the flashback where Stefan got mindwiped when he and Klaus broke up in the 30s that we had proof the originals could even make vampires forgot things. Which in someways is a shame as it would have made a nice distinction if you could only force vamps to do stuff but couldn't do it without them knowing they were compelled.

 

And regarding the doppelganger nonsense mentioned last page. Well I just assume that by tying Tatia to creating vampires Esthar hijacked the female dopple line. Which made new rules like direct lineage instead of them randomly occurring all over the place. That way itgives at least 1000 years for Tessa to get pissed off at all the clones hooking up but avoids The Originals not tripping over dopples that could break Klaus' curse.

 

Then again I always hated tying them tying the Silas plot and the dopple plot together as it made the universe feel small . That and Paul Wesley is not nearly as good as making a new character as Nina. His Silas had way to much in common with the times when Stefan has indulged in his dark-side.


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#1118

luvprue1

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Posted Mar 30, 2014 @ 11:36 PM

Minor nitpick:

Why can't anyone inform each other about what"s going on?

Jeremy gets a message from Liv that Elena's life is in danger and he rushes out in the middle of the night to talk to Liz. Find. I understand he was concern about his sister, but he could have called, or text his girlfriend to let her know what's going on so she will not be worry.


Stefan is being held hostage by the travelers, yet she doesn't think to call Elena and Damon and tell them what's going on?

Stefan and Caroline witness the traveler committing mass suicide, yet neither thought to call Bonnie and give her a heads up?


Another nitpick is Jeremy's hunter powers. I thought he no longer had them since he seem so weak that time that Damon and Enzo had kidnapped him in order to force Bonnie to find a witch. He didn't even put up a fight...now this week he still have his hunter's powers? Where were they when Damon kidnapped him?
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#1119

Sonicsean34

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Posted Apr 1, 2014 @ 8:26 PM

The hunter powers always felt weird. Even when Damon was training Jeremy to fight.  Damon still overpowered him in raw strength. It makes the thing insane that they have the desire to kill vampires but do not have the strength to take on a guy who has been a vamp for only 150 years. 

 

At least with the hybrids it makes sense because you can assume either they are just more powerful than vamps of a similar age or they get stronger at faster rate as they age than regular vampires so after ten years Tyler might outclass Damon. Of course this has been messed up by Dr Wes and his vamp injections that allow newborns to treat Damon like a rag-doll. But Jeremy doesn't have that sort of leeway to get stronger because his impulses would tell him to attack and then get murdered (Tessa and her with followers didn't think this through!)

 

My favourite thing about all this is that Jeremy was more badass and proactive in killing vampires in season 3 when he shot a hybrid  full of wood on his doorstep, walked in and grabbed a cleaver and decapitated it. Why is it that he is more reluctant about taking on vamps after he got supernaturally strong and had a motivational imperative to kill vampires?

 

Same with Matt, in season 2's final eps he shot Madox*  in the heart with his rifle to protect his friends or the time he killed Finn (with help from the team) yet the show presents him as such a delicate snow flake these days

 

*One of Klaus' Witch henchmen.  I miss when Klaus had an entourage (his operatiopn had a whole convoy of trucks if my misty memory can be relied upon) and its even worse retconning with both shows acting like Klaus has never had people be loyal to him when season 2 proves otherwise


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#1120

jessied112

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Posted Apr 2, 2014 @ 4:33 PM

Yeah, they really screwed up the potential in the hunter storyline. Not only do they not decide to have all five hunters appear on the island, in order to truly make the whole Hunters vs Silas thing more prominent (they act like only one of them is actually needed? Then why say there are five? To increase the chances of them finding the island?), but they don't go all the way with the powers of the hunters. They start to use the potential, first with Connor (though he's killed way too quickly) and then with Jeremy becoming all Buffy the Vampire Slayer on Elena for all of two episodes. Suddenly, to wipe the problem of Jeremy wanting to kill Elena (really, just Elena. No other vampires), they have Professor Creepy use some brainwashing technique and Jeremy's cured? Lame. At least they didn't send him to Offscreen Land for that character development, like they've done with him once before and Tyler and Bonnie many times. And yeah, they can't have him killing the main characters, since most of them are vampires anyway. 

 

Jeremy should have been just as strong as Damon, or at least be able to take him on for more than two seconds. I liked the beginning of the arc, where Jeremy suddenly became intelligent and used weapons to try and kill his sister (and being able to widdle wood in his sleep...) and then suddenly, Damon's the mentor to train Jeremy to fight and kill vampires. Wouldn't a vampire be the worst choice to be training the vampire hunter who just got under control? I really wish that Jeremy had killed Damon, or attempted to kill him, during training, to show that the Five are dangerous and not regular vampire hunters. They're supposed to be supernatural creatures too, which I really don't get. So Jeremy went from human to medium to a supernatural hunter? And is he now back to human because Silas is dead? Did the urges to kill vampires go away once the tattoo disappeared/Silas died? Why hasn't his training carried over after Silas' death? Why can Jeremy now be kidnappable again? And if he died during Enzo's suffocation, would he have come back if he had the ring on or would he have died because he's still supernatural?

 

Show needs to stop dropping important plot points like this. They give half assed explanations that make no sense.


Edited by jessied112, Apr 2, 2014 @ 4:36 PM.

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#1121

Sonicsean34

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Posted Apr 2, 2014 @ 7:32 PM

Well Liv still thinks he has hunter abilities and he didn't correct her so i guess he still has hunter powers but Enzo and Damon manhandled him because Hunters are bizarrely weak considering the task they are made for?. The worst part about Damon training Jeremy is why would Damon be the expert on hand to hand combat? He is a vampire, they win fights by being stupidly overpowered or by surprising their victim!

 

It would have made more sense for ghost Alaric to train him and use Damon as a fighting dummy (since all the other vamps wouldn't be able to put up a good fight. Wait Klaus would have been the only one trained in proper hand to hand or weapons combat based on his backstory  and cannot be killed so would be perfect if they needed a corporal teacher    .


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#1122

luvprue1

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Posted Apr 14, 2014 @ 12:27 PM

The hunter powers always felt weird. Even when Damon was training Jeremy to fight.  Damon still overpowered him in raw strength. It makes the thing insane that they have the desire to kill vampires but do not have the strength to take on a guy who has been a vamp for only 150 years. 
 
At least with the hybrids it makes sense because you can assume either they are just more powerful than vamps of a similar age or they get stronger at faster rate as they age than regular vampires so after ten years Tyler might outclass Damon. Of course this has been messed up by Dr Wes and his vamp injections that allow newborns to treat Damon like a rag-doll. But Jeremy doesn't have that sort of leeway to get stronger because his impulses would tell him to attack and then get murdered (Tessa and her with followers didn't think this through!)
 
My favourite thing about all this is that Jeremy was more badass and proactive in killing vampires in season 3 when he shot a hybrid  full of wood on his doorstep, walked in and grabbed a cleaver and decapitated it. Why is it that he is more reluctant about taking on vamps after he got supernaturally strong and had a motivational imperative to kill vampires?
 
Same with Matt, in season 2's final eps he shot Madox*  in the heart with his rifle to protect his friends or the time he killed Finn (with help from the team) yet the show presents him as such a delicate snow flake these days
 
*One of Klaus' Witch henchmen.  I miss when Klaus had an entourage (his operatiopn had a whole convoy of trucks if my misty memory can be relied upon) and its even worse retconning with both shows acting like Klaus has never had people be loyal to him when season 2 proves otherwise


Jeremy's would have been able to be a better hunter with each vampire he killed. Plus his hatred for vampire would grow and so would his instincts to kill them. However that didn't happen with Jeremy because he took a short cut by killing Kol, which is not learning, but cheating. Plus professor shane made it so he no longer have the urge to kill vampires.
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