1161 replies to this topic

[TWoP Sun]

Think the brothers will go mano a mano? Or ditch the girl instead? Your speculation goes here.

[Sedruol]

The introduction of the secret vampire hunter society at the founder's house has some interesting potential. If Elena's family has been involved in that vampire hunter secret society for ages (hence passing along the watch from father to son), I wonder if they ever crossed paths with the Salvatores back in the late 1800s? I wonder if this society inadvertently killed Katherine? That would definitely complicate the Elena / Stefan love fest.

Edited by Sedruol, Oct 5, 2009 @ 5:54 PM.

[DigiKing]

I'd definitely say it's possible, given that their wedding rings were on the list as well. Kinda makes you wonder how Elena's parents really died...

[AuntieLizard]

Hrm... I hope they don't go the route of making Elena sort of a Buffy. I was just starting to have hopes for her character.

There have been discussion in the episode thread that Damon intends Vicki to be the fall girl for the vamp crimes he committed. I agree.

[JennyLiz]

I can't read spoilers for show I really love, because they ruin them for me (that's reserved for 90210!)

For this show...It doesn't seem to be a spoiler, because I haven't seen it tagged on all the other forums. I guess (maybe from the books? IDK, I never read them) that Elena will fall for/crush on/have a triangle with Damon. I totally vote NO on this. I love Elena and Stefan. I love them together. I don't want to have this whole triangle thing with his brother. It will depress me and it will make me stop watching the show.

When I read the Twilight series I actually called my friend who had finished the series and demanded that she tell me Bella would not end up with Jacob.

I do NOT want to have this love dilemma. I sincerely hope that the show is better than that and that they won't go there.

(Apparently the books go here...I just mean that the show should be better in the sense that a lot of teen dramas would go for the love triangle. I pray TVD doesn't.)

Edited by TWoP Sun, Oct 30, 2009 @ 5:17 PM.
spoiler bars unnecessary

[Jubi]

From the episode thread:

Damon also killed all those people we saw at the beginning of the show, pretty much for sport.

I realized after the fall finale that we don't know that for certain. That killing used the same method as the attack on Elena in the fall finale: stand in the middle of the road and cause a car accident. Also, the killer's face was never shown, which made sense at the time because we hadn't met Damon yet, but the same thing is also true for the killing of the couple camping in the woods in the second episode. They never showed his face during that killing, either, which seems odd. Why would they avoid showing his face when we already know who he is and that he's a killer? I'm not trying to make excuses for Damon--the people he has killed and harmed have been bad enough--but I do wonder if it was this other mysterious vampire who committed a couple of the murders we (and Stefan) assumed Damon was responsible for.

I could be completely wrong, I just think those two initial killings have suspicious circumstances, and we don't know how long the other vamp has been in the area. Certainly he was there to turn Logan, but he could have been hanging around before that, especially if his being there is tied to Katherine and/or the other vampires under the church.

Also from the ep thread:

Didn't he sort of admit that he was responsible for all of the "animal attacks?" And, considering all of the killing he's done onscreen, I don't think it really matters if he wasn't responsible for all of the earlier murders. It would just mean there was an equally dangerous vamp out there somewhere.

Second point already addressed above. As far as whether Damon admitted to it, I already had this theory when I re-watched the first 10 episodes, and I didn't see anything that completely ruled out the other vamp being responsible for those deaths. From what I recall, Damon doesn't really say concretely that he killed those specific people. Stefan only directly accuses him of attacking Vicki, I think, which we know he did, and he doesn't deny. And Stefan tells him that wherever he goes, people die, and Damon's just kind of like, "Yeah, whatever" about all of it.

There are still a couple of factors that back up Damon being responsible for all of it. Damon says he can manipulate fog, which is a common factor in most of the killings. That may be a parlor trick that's in every vampire's repertoire as long as they're strong enough (i.e. don't drink animal blood), and it actually looks a bit foggy when Elena has her car accident, too, but then again, that was probably natural fog, not ooky supernatural fog. And I don't think they show his face during Vicki's attack, either, and we know he did that. Still, there's enough ambiguity there that it may have been deliberate misdirection.

I'm not super-invested in the idea that a couple of the murders weren't Damon, I just find it suspicious that they avoided showing his face in a couple of those killings, especially since by the time he attacked Vicki's "waste-of-spac e small town lifer" friends, we were seeing close-ups of him feeding on people. The reveal that there is another vampire around made me go back and consider a few things differently.

Edited by Jubi, Jan 26, 2010 @ 5:02 PM.

[cyberducks]

I realized after the fall finale that we don't know that for certain. That killing used the same method as the attack on Elena in the fall finale: stand in the middle of the road and cause a car accident. Also, the killer's face was never shown, which made sense at the time because we hadn't met Damon yet, but the same thing is also true for the killing of the couple camping in the woods in the second episode. They never showed his face during that killing, either, which seems odd. Why would they avoid showing his face when we already know who he is and that he's a killer? I'm not trying to make excuses for Damon--the people he has killed and harmed have been bad enough--but I do wonder if it was this other mysterious vampire who committed a couple of the murders we (and Stefan) assumed Damon was responsible for.

I could be completely wrong, I just think those two initial killings have suspicious circumstances, and we don't know how long the other vamp has been in the area. Certainly he was there to turn Logan, but he could have been hanging around before that, especially if his being there is tied to Katherine and/or the other vampires under the church.

Yes, I had been wondering too whether there was somebody else out there killing people off and Damon was getting the blame for all the killings. My friend who has read all the books told me that in the books - book spoilers: Damon - while no boyscout by any means - often initially got blamed for stuff and then it turned out he hadn't done it. Now, I know they are not following the books very closely at all but it's something to ponder.

[Hamnoo]

About the werewolf/ves:
I'm thinking they will delay showing us some, just out of money issues. Vampires and witches are much more cost-effective.

[Psappy]

New to the forum *waves*

Now I've never read the books but I am a huge "teen" genre watcher and it seems to me that more often than not the heroine ends up with the "other" man. The one who she vows to hate early on in the series. I've seen it with Joey/Pacey, Logan/Veronica, Blair/Chuck, Buffy/Spike...etc etc. IMO Stefan will not be Elaina's endgame, Damon will. For all we've seen of him as an irredeemable character the bottom line is everyone he does is for his love of Katherine. He loved her so much he'd lie, cheat, kill, whatever it took to bring her back. As we've seen so far, especially in this last episode, he's also incapable of killing Elaina. My feeling is because he's in love with her too. Just a thought.

[Elli DC]

So I just rewatched Children of the Damned, and noticed that on Guiseppe Salvatorre's headstone, it lists his death as being on January 23, 1864. Maybe I'm just being nitpicky, but all the flashbacks have been from 1864, so did all of the action back then take place in less than a month? Damon deserting the army, Katherine et al. coming to town, both brothers falling for her, the "battle" at the church where the vamps are trapped, and then Papa Salvatorre's death? If this isn't a goof by the show, that's a very short time for so much action.

[kj4ever]

So I just rewatched Children of the Damned, and noticed that on Guiseppe Salvatorre's headstone, it lists his death as being on January 23, 1864. Maybe I'm just being nitpicky, but all the flashbacks have been from 1864, so did all of the action back then take place in less than a month? Damon deserting the army, Katherine et al. coming to town, both brothers falling for her, the "battle" at the church where the vamps are trapped, and then Papa Salvatorre's death? If this isn't a goof by the show, that's a very short time for so much action.

I don't know about how all of that could be packed in one month, but I'm thinking that after seeing Stefan digging up his Pop's grave that Daddy Dearest was his first meal. Just a feeling I got, especially with how he said all those feelings are amplified when they are turned. He placed his trust in his Dad and his dad betrayed it (rightfully so). That, and it would really piss Damon off if he didn't get to do it.

Now that we know Katherine wasn't in the tomb, I'm betting that when she does come around, which I'm sure she will, probably causing havok by posing as Elena part of the time, she will want Stefan, and want him BAD.

[CarpingSlav]

I wonder whether it was Katherine who killed Papa Salvatore though? But yeah, would love for her to play with Stefan's mind heh.

Though if she does that, I want Bonnie to go all Sydney on her, recognise that it's not her friend and have a kick-arse fight.

[amybeth5251]

I'm still trying to figure out how the brothers became vamps. They were both clearly human when Katherine et al. were rounded up. Here's my spec:

We know that the way to make a Vampire is to have them drink your blood and then kill them. We can assume that Katherine had been feeding the brothers her blood for a while. (Disregarding the 1864 question below). Papa Salvatore advised us that if anyone seemed too sympathetic to the vampires, they may be killed as well.

We can safely assume that Katherine did not feed Stefan the night she was captured. We can assume, however, that if Stefan and Damon were fed her blood on multiple occasions in the recent past, there may be some residual transfer. (Stefan informed Elena that the blood would pass out of her system before too long - but she ingested only a small amount).

We know that Damon blames Stefan for what happened that night, and all though he loved his brother, you can see where his anger would come from. Stefan's the golden child, Damon's the black sheep. Katherine comes, and embraces the darkness within Damon, and not only does he have to share her with his brother, but because of Stefan, she's ripped away from him. In a fit of anger, Damon kills his brother, not realizing that the action will turn him. The rest of the town, realizing that not only did Damon kill his brother, but also is sympathetic to the vampires, quickly turn into a lynch mob and kill Damon as well.

[Lizardbeth J]

In a fit of anger, Damon kills his brother, not realizing that the action will turn him. The rest of the town, realizing that not only did Damon kill his brother, but also is sympathetic to the vampires, quickly turn into a lynch mob and kill Damon as well

oh I like this! Though I have a hard time believing Stefan would say he was sorry for Katherine getting caught to Damon, if Damon had killed (and turned) him in vengeance already.

And I like the notion of one of them killing their father as well. It'd torture Stefan more and might be the reason he swore off human blood. But they were both furiously angry/upset about Katherine getting dragged off. So I could definitely buy either one doing it.

Edited by Lizardbeth J, Feb 20, 2010 @ 3:10 AM.

[akksgurl]

My theory is that obviously both boys had enough of Katherine's blood in them to turn after they died. Damon told Elena that they were shot because they were "union sympathizers" but since that was before she knew about the vampire thing I always figured that was code for "vampire sympathizers". I think he was telling the truth, but a skewed version of it. My theory is that he and Stefan got separated going after the mob. Stefan was killed by the mob, but Damon was killed by Papa Salvatore. Stefan wasn't the only one with an odd expression at daddy's grave, after all, and it makes perfect sense to me since his relationship with his father was horrible already because of him going AWOL from the Confederacy and then you couple that with him being a vampire sympathizer and I could totally see Papa Salvatore killing him "for the greater good". I also think that Stefan ate their father as his first meal which explains his odd expression. But I do not think that either guy knows what happened with the other one. I think Stefan assumes Damon was killed the way he was and I think Damon doesn't give a damn what happened to daddy and never asked.

[jediylva]

For this show...It doesn't seem to be a spoiler, because I haven't seen it tagged on all the other forums. I guess (maybe from the books? IDK, I never read them) that Elena will fall for/crush on/have a triangle with Damon. I totally vote NO on this. I love Elena and Stefan. I love them together. I don't want to have this whole triangle thing with his brother. It will depress me and it will make me stop watching the show.

Now I've never read the books but I am a huge "teen" genre watcher and it seems to me that more often than not the heroine ends up with the "other" man. The one who she vows to hate early on in the series. I've seen it with Joey/Pacey, Logan/Veronica, Blair/Chuck, Buffy/Spike...etc etc. IMO Stefan will not be Elaina's endgame, Damon will. For all we've seen of him as an irredeemable character the bottom line is everyone he does is for his love of Katherine. He loved her so much he'd lie, cheat, kill, whatever it took to bring her back. As we've seen so far, especially in this last episode, he's also incapable of killing Elaina. My feeling is because he's in love with her too. Just a thought.

The threesome, or Elena falling for Damon, seems like a road the show inevitably will take, everything so far points towards it.
I just hope that that they won't redeem Damon, make him into another Stefan, only feeding from animals, never hurt humans and so on. And that it's Elenas love that makes him become "good". That would be soooo boring. And cliché.
I'm not suggesting that the three of them should live in a polyamorous relationship, but please, not another Dawsons Creek!

[JennyLiz]

I just hope that that they won't redeem Damon, make him into another Stefan, only feeding from animals, never hurt humans and so on. And that it's Elenas love that makes him become "good". That would be soooo boring. And cliché.

I think the problem I have with the inevitable triangle isn't about Damon, it's about Stefan. Once we got past the whole vampire/Katherine doppelganger thing, we haven't seen any trouble between him and Elena. I understand that Damon is a charismatic person, and I definitely see the chemistry between him and Elena, but I'd love for that chemistry to evolve into a great friendship. I can't really foresee a situation where Elena would prefer Damon to Stefan as a romantic partner. Stefan is unbelievably hot, a nice guy, can be a bad-ass when it's called for, and really cares about Elena. Damon is gorgeous and clearly cares for Elena, but he's also a raging sociopath, has abused/tried to kill her friends, and is CLEARLY hung up on his ex, lol. Particularly if they are going to woobify Damon and make him more Stefan-y, as jediylva fears, I don't see any reason Elena would turn to Damon and reject Stefan.

[Kaboom]

I'm not suggesting that the three of them should live in a polyamorous relationship, but please, not another Dawsons Creek!

This. I think I didn't mind triangles until Kevin Williamson sprang Dawson/Joey/Pacey on us all those years ago (shudder). I love TVD so much right now that my biggest fear is for a retread of D/J/P to infect it. I don't mind a triangle if done right, and since TVD has pretty much done everything right so far, I have faith in the show runners. :)

[Sedruol]

I think for the triangle to work (and I'm hoping they don't try for full-blown triangle right away - Damon & Elena as good friends would be more than enough), either Stefan's going to have to mess up and fall off his pedestal (he's almost too perfect now as a boyfriend, and nobody can be that perfect), Elena's going to have to get more in touch with that side of her "that used to be fun", and Damon at a minimum has to stop killing innocent humans (I don't see feeding from humans as necessarily an issue, but Elena's not going to seriously consider someone that is so cavalier about the importance of human life).

I wonder where Bonnie's storyline is going to go from here...she's clearly devastated about her grandmother's loss. Does she give up on her magic since the force of the spell killed Grams? Does she get angry and more focused on her witchcraft studies? Does she regret trying to save Stefan?

[talullabell]

Re: earlier posts about how Damon and Stefan died and were turned.

In the flashbacks, neither Damon nor Stefan have old or healing bite marks, although we are lead to believe that Katherine had bitten both of them multiple times. Given what we've seen, it would appear that Katherine likely gave the boys her blood to heal them after biting them. As we have been shown, vamp blood heals vamp bite marks immediately. Thus, I suspect that our Salvatore boys always had vamp blood in their systems -- they just didn't die until after Katherine got caught.

Regarding HOW they died:

I suspect that Damon was shot point-blank by Papa Salvatore. At the Founders Party, Damon states that the "old" Salvatore brothers were killed in cold blood. In "Children of the Damned" we are shown Papa's contempt for Damon; also in "Children of the Damned" we hear an exchange between Papa S. and Damon wherein Papa S. tells Damon that "sympathizers" will be shot (and later Damon tells Papa S. that he should let [Damon] die) -- we know now that "sympathizers" can double as code for vampires/protectors. I think we have definitely been given info to suggest that Papa Salvatore killed Damon "in cold blood" for being a "sympathizer." I also wouldn't be surprised if Papa S.'s killing of Damon lead to Stefan's death. (Which Damon, being dead and all wouldn't know the logistics of). But I suspect that fact is really why Damon hates Stefan and Stefan feels so guilty-- from their perspectives, Stefan didn't just get Damon's vampire girlfriend "killed" (which Damon apparently always knew didn't happen) -- I suspect that they both know that Stefan's trust in Papa S. got Damon (and Stefan?) damned for eternity -- and shot by his [their?] own father.

[Sedruol]

Definitely Papa Salvatore's 1864 death is no coincidence. Did he lead to his sons' deaths? Did he try to protect his sons and die in the process? Stefan especially had a dark look on his face when looking at his father's grave, so I wonder if Stefan killed his father?

I wonder if we'll get to see Damon saving Emily's children? I can't wait for them to air the remaining flashbacks to fill in the gaps of what happened after Katherine's capture.

[akksgurl]

I suspect that Damon was shot point-blank by Papa Salvatore.

I'm of this opinion as well. However, I don't think Stefan knows. Last we saw of 1864, Damon was running off after Katherine leaving Stefan behind. I think that was probably the last time Stefan saw his brother mortal. My theory is that Damon ran off to save Katherine and was shot to death by his father. Meanwhile, Stefan was somehow or another shot by other vampire hunters; likely by accident. The twist I'm thinking is that it'll turn out the reason Stefan doesn't drink human blood is because his first kill after becoming a vampire (and being a bit feral, if Vicki is any indication) was Papa Salvatore. He hesitated when Vicki asked him if he'd ever tasted human blood, and he told Elena that it was difficult to avoid certain people. I think it just makes sense that Stefan killed his father. And Damon doesn't know it.

[mythsnstuff]

In "Children of the Damned" we are shown Papa's contempt for Damon; also in "Children of the Damned" we hear an exchange between Papa S. and Damon wherein Papa S. tells Damon that "sympathizers" will be shot (and later Damon tells Papa S. that he should let [Damon] die) -- we know now that "sympathizers" can double as code for vampires/protectors.

Used the above as a jumping-off point for the new History thread. Also, it would be awesome if the spec about Papa killing Damon and Stefan killing Papa turned out to be true.

[LolaRuns]

So.... Katherine, Isobel, Damon... How to make it less of an amazing coincidence.

Damon made a good point about Katherine maybe being the one who sent Isobel to him. But how does that make sense with the baby Isobel had at age 17?

Let's say Katherine had something to do with Isobel's pregnancy. So why not turn/organize for Isobel to turn till Isobel is in her 30s? Or why have Isobel start researching only at that age? To me that sounds more like Katherine and Isobel didn't have a deal. And if Kath had something to do with the pregnancy she did it without Isobel knowing.

Let's say:
- Isobel gets pregnant under very weird circumstances
- She freaks out, gives the baby up, runs off, is messed up for a while
- Pulls herself together, gets some sort of hint about Katherine
- Begins researching her, finds out about vamps that way, becomes obsessed
- Finds out about Damon while researching Katherine's history and seeks him out, begs him to turn her
- Has a personality makeover on account of having become a vamp and becomes evil or semi-evil

Or of course
- Katherine and Isobel have some sort of deal
- Katherine has Isobel get pregnant and tells her to hand the baby over to the Gilberts as a personal cruel in joke
- Katherine eventually sends Isobel after Damon as yet another in joke

Or
- Katherine has Isobel under some sort of long term compelling, making her get pregnant
- Again, sends compelled Isobel to the Gilberts
- Compelled Isobel is messed up, pulls herself together, meets Alaric
- Becomes weirded out about her compelled actions in the past and begins researching
- Either finds Damon on her own or comes across Katherine again who sends her after Damon as an in-joke

The very first scenario would fit the most with Katherine genuinely having zero interest in Damon anymore, since the other two scenarios would at least imply she cared enough to play an in-joke on his expense.

[Morrigan8472]

My question is: who is Elena's father? Up until this episode I just assumed it was Alaric, but this episode put the kibosh on that, and other than the Brothers Salvatore, there aren't any adult male characters to fill the role of Elena's dad.

[Elli DC]

So, like any good Vampire Diaries-obsessed fan, I just watched all the preview clips for next week, and WHOA I think Jeremy's character comes back with a vengence! If you watch the extended preview on CW's website, there's a brief glimpse of a huge gash on someone's hand, and Jeremy asking Anna - kinda smugly if you ask me - if she has a problem with blood. Then she vamps out. It is my crazy guess that Jeremy actually freakin' tests his theory about vampires by cutting himself. Oh my word, if that isn't crazy, I don't know what is. Of course, based soley on the preview, it looks like Anna vamps out and holds him to the wall by his throat. Sooo I wonder what will happen with that, but I think we have some great stuff to look forward to next week!

[hardcoreWWnut]

Do we know for sure that Isobel is related to Katherine? I don't recall anything official -just Damon's remark last night.

there aren't any adult male characters to fill the role of Elena's dad.

Yet. I'm thinking he's a Pierce. Stefan seemed worried about that family finding out he was digging into their past. While it's possible that Isobel changed her name or her mother was a Pierce, my money's on Elena's father being the connection.

Katherine has Isobel get pregnant and tells her to hand the baby over to the Gilberts as a personal cruel in joke
Or
- Katherine has Isobel under some sort of long term compelling, making her get pregnant
- Again, sends compelled Isobel to the Gilberts

I like the idea of Isobel being compelled to give Elena away. Also agree with you that she was most likely being mutilated when she got pregnant. However, I'm just not sure why -if it's Katherine behind this- she'd send Isobel to the Gilberts?

I'm interested in finding out how much the Gilberts knew about Elena's birth parents. Jenna doesn't seem to know much but Miranda was involved with the Founder's Council and Grayson had the vampire stuff so they had knowledge of the vampires. I wonder if Isobel actually "showed up" on their doorstep randomly, was compelled to by a vampire or if Grayson and Miranda were more involved than we've been lead to believe. I really don't think they were innocent in this whole thing.

Edited by hardcoreWWnut, Mar 26, 2010 @ 7:56 PM.

[LolaRuns]

I find it very hard to picture Katherine as we have seen her so far having a child and therefore having grand grand grand grand children. I mean, even if she gave birth to a child before becoming a vamp, from the kind of personality we have seen so far Katherine just seems like the kind of person who would either turn the child (like Anna/Pearl) or just murder it (as a last remainder of her humanity).

Then again, if there are offspring with Katherine blood, maybe Katherine had a sister or brother who had children. But yeah, I think it work just as well without blood relation.

On the other hand, blood relation could be a good way to explain some of the coincidences. We already know that the people in town haven't moved around much for centuries. So if Katherine was looking for offspring it would make sense that her offspring was "in the neighbourhood" (again that presuming human Katherine though not from the town likely wasn't from that far away).

In that context even Isobel ending up with the Gilbert's wouldn't be that much of a stretch if they were the main doctors of the area.

[kcblue86]

I find it very hard to picture Katherine as we have seen her so far having a child and therefore having grand grand grand grand children.

I can see her having a child. I just can't see her raising a child, which I think may have played a role in her becoming a vampire. I hope they clear this up, along with how Zach was related to Damon and Stefan.

And in regard to the preview with Jeremy tempting Anna with his blood, he better have more to his plan than just confronting her with a bleeding wound. He was just starting to seem smarter by figuring out that there were vampires, I'd hate to see him screw it up by walking into a deadly situation.

Edited by kcblue86, Mar 28, 2010 @ 6:09 PM.

[Sakura12]

I hope so too. Because him going with "I think my tiny stalker friend is a vampire let me test my theory by bleeding in front of her" -throat grab- "Oops I forgot in my searching that vampries are super strong and can snap by neck like a twig" will not work out to well for him.

He'll probably survive only because Anna does seem to like him. I also hope she tells him how stupid he is for doing that.