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Rachel Berry: She's Talented, You Know


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#10261

SNeaker

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Posted Apr 10, 2012 @ 8:41 PM

I was just fuming at the "I can't do this without you" bullshit. What she should have said was, "I TOLD you last year that we shouldn't get back together because I was planning to leave for New York and nothing was going to stop me, and YOU insisted we could just date until then, and then you PROPOSED to me and told me you'd come with me to New York. If you don't like that plan, that is your problem."
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#10262

DrScheme

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Posted Apr 10, 2012 @ 8:49 PM

I was just fuming at the "I can't do this without you" bullshit. What she should have said was, "I TOLD you last year that we shouldn't get back together because I was planning to leave for New York and nothing was going to stop me, and YOU insisted we could just date until then, and then you PROPOSED to me and told me you'd come with me to New York. If you don't like that plan, that is your problem."


Pick your battles. If the writers will do the right thing and END THIS I don't care if the relationship ends with Rachel burying him beneath a flowerbed.

I liked that she considered Finn blathering about Pool Cleaning in LA and her trying to score acting gigs in Hollywood as him going off script as it were. NY was the plan all along and Rachel hitched his wagon to hers when he said he was ok with that.
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#10263

marysue22

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Posted Apr 10, 2012 @ 8:57 PM

Pick your battles. If the writers will do the right thing and END THIS I don't care if the relationship ends with Rachel burying him beneath a flowerbed.


Hahahahahha, brilliant! I don't give these ridiculous writers and the sorry excuse for a storyline any credit, but this cracked me up. I'd be willing to forgive alot of future shit from this show in Season 4, if someone..anyone acknowledges the fact that Rachel belongs in New York and it just won't last with Finn, no matter how that conclusion is reached.
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#10264

Mnemosyne78

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Posted Apr 10, 2012 @ 9:06 PM

And her shaking Tina's dead corpse.

Hee! Since I had already spoiled myself for most of the Cooper scenes, that was the one thing that made me laugh my ass off. Heh...Tina's dead corpse. Someone needs to make it a meme.


I was just fuming at the "I can't do this without you" bullshit. What she should have said was, "I TOLD you last year that we shouldn't get back together because I was planning to leave for New York and nothing was going to stop me, and YOU insisted we could just date until then, and then you PROPOSED to me and told me you'd come with me to New York. If you don't like that plan, that is your problem."

Sigh. I had to just read it again. For a second there while watching that trainwreck I thought I might have actually hallucinated the end of last year's finale. The other trainwreck.
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#10265

jmcb

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Posted Apr 10, 2012 @ 11:23 PM

We all know Rachel can do it without him, once again she was boosting him up as usual. But some how or another people still say she only thinking of herself.

Really she has been clear about going to NYC and when he proposed he signed on to that too. Now he tries to turn it around and she doesn't love him enough to think about rearranging her life's dream. urgh.

I really hope they are heading toward an amicable break up.
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#10266

Mnemosyne78

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Posted Apr 11, 2012 @ 12:08 AM

'Glee' Season 3: Rachel Berry look inspired by 'That Girl' Marlo Thomas


This is the necklace Lou mentions in the article that they had made for Rachel.

Came across these while doing my usual after episode Fashion of Glee stroll. I'm pretty sure I'm kind of chill right now because I was too distracted by that gorgeous blouse Rachel was rocking while I was busy hoping Finn would DIAF. I was all hey, girl, hey that top is cah-yoot!
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#10267

Casual Viewing

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Posted Apr 11, 2012 @ 12:40 AM

Pick your battles. If the writers will do the right thing and END THIS I don't care if the relationship ends with Rachel burying him beneath a flowerbed.


Or beneath a cornfield. :-)


I was just fuming at the "I can't do this without you" bullshit. What she should have said was, "I TOLD you last year that we shouldn't get back together because I was planning to leave for New York and nothing was going to stop me, and YOU insisted we could just date until then, and then you PROPOSED to me and told me you'd come with me to New York. If you don't like that plan, that is your problem."


Rachel season 3 vs Rachel season 1 summed up perfectly.
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#10268

MDKNIGHT

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Posted Apr 11, 2012 @ 3:10 AM

Or beneath a cornfield. :-)

Hey if she could do that with her mind it would be the greatest crossover ever.(Glee/Twilight Zone)

I just hope the writers see that Finn is the self centered one. I want thier showing Finn to be the villain to be intentional.

I giggled when Rachel was going on about how Broadway is about the work you do and LA is about the work you've had done because of the Meta. Lea wouldn't have been accepted in LA if she hadn't succeeded on Broadway first. They really would have looked at the nose and passed.

My friend only sporadically watches but always asks me what is going on. I told her what happened reg the wedding and that Quinn who is in a wheel chair is acting like everything is FINE but Rachel was the basket case. My friend who is more Team Faberry than I am is now convinced that Quinn is OK because Rachel didn't get married and so long as that was true the other stuff didn't matter. That is a bit extreme for me but I did think it was an interesting theory. I am however surprised that when Quinn comforted Rachel over Quinn being in a wheelchair that Santana didn't mention that it is a sign of the apocalypse and the Mayan calendar was right.

Edited by MDKNIGHT, Apr 11, 2012 @ 3:12 AM.

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#10269

DEM

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Posted Apr 11, 2012 @ 1:20 PM

Can anyone tell me what Rachel was doing in Booty Camp? Picture It
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#10270

Heatherbelle

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Posted Apr 11, 2012 @ 3:59 PM

Can anyone tell me what Rachel was doing in Booty Camp? Picture It


Is she not doing a move from 'A Chorus line' with the hats? Like this?
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#10271

DEM

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Posted Apr 11, 2012 @ 4:37 PM

Brilliant! I do believe you are correct, Heatherbelle. I could almost identify it; it was on the tip of my brain, so to speak. Thanks!

And thank you, Rachel. That's so perfect.

Edited by DEM, Apr 11, 2012 @ 4:38 PM.

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#10272

Heatherbelle

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Posted Apr 11, 2012 @ 5:22 PM

Isn't it just? So Rachel! Especially considering her 'it's always been Broadway' declaration. Which is very true, and I'm glad she said it.

I want her to drop Finn, I cannot tell a lie. It's not like she's ever hid that wish.


Of course, now I have that song on my brain for the next week or so. It's all your fault DEM...
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#10273

HLine

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Posted Apr 13, 2012 @ 12:18 PM

We all know Rachel can do it without him, once again she was boosting him up as usual. But some how or another people still say she only thinking of herself.

Really she has been clear about going to NYC and when he proposed he signed on to that too. Now he tries to turn it around and she doesn't love him enough to think about rearranging her life's dream. urgh.


Sure she can pursue her career without Finn, in the sense of she can go to college, perform, etc. on her own. The same plan she's always had, essentially. But she's in love with him and has been for two and a half years, and any time she started getting over him a bit he's pulled her right back in, so she doesn't want to think of living without him. Essential for emotional reasons, not practical ones. Or maybe she's just sung so many songs to him that she's forgotten how to sing to anyone else.

Since Finn was the one to push for the commitment and pulled out all the stops to convince her to buy into it (which included him talking about them in New York, if I recall correctly), him pulling away now (or continuing to storm out regularly) should feed into Rachel's abandonment issues, since it's basically the same thing Shelby did, push deeply into her life and then change minds once there. Rachel's had her own experience with someone loving the idea of her but not the actual her.

Edited by HLine, Apr 13, 2012 @ 12:21 PM.

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#10274

Ranwing

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Posted Apr 13, 2012 @ 2:51 PM

Need to post a question. Will probably get rocks thrown at me, but need to say this.

If having Finn in NY with her is so fucking important to Rachel, what has she done to make it work?

There is something monumentally screwed up when the only person who tried to give Finn some kind of concrete help in finding a place for himself in NY while Rachel attends NYADA (pending her acceptance - still not a sure thing) is Kurt. Kurt is the one who showed up with brochures for colleges in and around NYC that might possibly suit Finn so that he's not just sitting around the appartment, twiddling his thumbs while Rachel gets back from class. Rachel is focused completely on herself that Finn to her is only something an accessory to her dream. Much in the way that Kurt was an accessory (her best Gay who could make her a souffle and give emergency fashion tips). But the serious stuff - helping Finn figure out a passion for himself now that football is off the table? That she can't be bothered with.

Finn takes a lot of shit over the utter flaming mess that Finchel is, but it's not entirely his fault. It's a 50-50 split. Finn is clueless, but Rachel is selfish and oblivious. She doesn't bend. At all. Finn got a taste of that during their attempt at a sleepover at the Berrys. Rachel can spend two hours on her pre-bed routine, but Finn doesn't dare take a dump in her bathroom? This relationship has murder/suicide written all over it.

Rachel is as toxic for Finn as he can be for her. And Rachel is following her usual pattern - running headlong towards her goal no matter who she tramples in the process. If Rachel wants Finn with her so badly, a bit of thought as to what he can do other than just be her adoring husband would not be amiss. He's lost and she's doing nothing beyond "you're so talented" platitudes towards helping him find his way.
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#10275

marysue22

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Posted Apr 13, 2012 @ 4:11 PM

If being in New York with Rachel is so important to him because he loves her and Finn is so supportive, what has he done to make an effort to create a hypothetical situation for himself there? Yes, I actually think that it's fantastic that highschool student Rachel is so headlong towards her goal, she should be because she's put in the time and effort to train her voice to get what she wants. I know I'm being a hardass on this, but why the fuck should Kurt or anyone else really help him find a passion for himself? Last I checked, Finn has a working brain and should be able to find an alternate plan for himself and if he wants to be with the girl he loves so much, then try and make that work in New York. Rachel has never hidden the fact that that's where she feels she belongs, so as much as she does love him, it's ridiculous to try and divert her to send her to California for a pool cleaning business with Puck. How the hell does that make any sense?

I can certainly agree with you that they are toxic for each other at this point in their lives and sticking it out together would probably lead to resentment.
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#10276

Mnemosyne78

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Posted Apr 13, 2012 @ 8:22 PM

If having Finn in NY with her is so fucking important to Rachel, what has she done to make it work?

If marrying Rachel is so important to Finn, so much so that he badgered her for the answer that he wanted and balked at the idea that they could even manage a long distance relationship, why has he not even attempted to try to find some way to make New York work for him too?

I think it's especially telling that even when Kurt tried to get Finn off his ass to look for some oppotunities for himself in NYC the Lump STILL did nothing. It's not like it was important to him or anything. Then again all Puck had to do was suggest some half cocked idea and he was off to the races(and to another side of the country).


It's fascinating that Finn's innability to actually achieve anything on his own steam and force of will is being spun as an example of Rachel's selfishness.

Edited by Mnemosyne78, Apr 13, 2012 @ 8:42 PM.

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#10277

digitalrhapsody

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Posted Apr 13, 2012 @ 8:55 PM

I think part of the problem with this is the writers spent so long developing Rachel's goals and dreams (as they should, since she was originally the lead) that they forgot that a relationship has two people. Do we know what Finn wants to do with his future?

He can drum well enough to play backup in high-visibility performances, but we don't know if that's a passion of his; the writers never developed it.

He's a good singer, but the writers have made it clear he's only "Lima good".

His academics have always been a point for jokes, so we've never been shown that he has a particular subject or class he wants to pursue. He once said he wants to be a teacher but I've heard nothing since.

He tried to enlist in the Army, until Deux Ex Machina!Daddy was a druggie...

And you know by this time last year Rachel would have already had a full twelve-step plan for Finn to raise his GPA and a list of acceptable schools in and around the Theatre district that he could apply to, along with apartment listings and room layouts.
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#10278

Sadie T

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Posted Apr 13, 2012 @ 10:31 PM

I just hope the writers see that Finn is the self centered one. I want thier showing Finn to be the villain to be intentional.


Me too. I understand Finn feeling lost and desperately grasping at any opportunity that comes his way because he is a confused insecure kid, but he was truly being irrational and selfish in that moment by asking Rachel to sacrifice her whole well thought out future for him… and on a whim that Puck put into his head like a day ago.

Now I'm sure some people will say she's doing the same to Finn, but Rachel never actually asked Finn to come to NY and give up whatever plans he had for himself (or if she did I must have missed that scene). She clearly warned him of her future plans last year before they started dating again and wasn't at all expecting him to follow her, in fact it seemed she was planning on leaving him to go off to NY after graduation. She did say she wanted him with her and would help him figure his life in NY out if he does come along, but she also supported his working at the shop, although she rightfully didn't believe it was what he truly wanted for himself, and she made no objection to him going to OSU. So while Rachel obviously wants her boyfriend to come to NY with her, she never demanded it and didn't expect it until Finn proposed and told her he was going to NY too. On the other hand, Finn presented his half-assed California pool-cleaning plan and then immediately snapped at Rachel for not jumping to go along with it. He then accused her of not loving him because she wouldn't give up all her dreams for him, yet he's not willing to give up something that he likely doesn't even want for her. So by Finn's own standards, he does not love Rachel for who she is. Finn's reaction made it seem like he is unwilling to accept anything other than her following him to California now, and that's an incredibly selfish demand to make on someone who has been dreaming of being on Broadway since she was a toddler. The show has no problem pointing out when Rachel does something selfish so they shouldn't shy away from it with one of their precious male characters. I just seriously hope the writers explore that Finn's insecurities are causing him to act somewhat irrationally and don't just pass this off as Rachel being a silly selfish girl who didn't think of her poor put upon boyfriend. I also would like to see them address the fact that despite going against Rachel's plans, Finn is still being every bit the follower... only now he's following Puck.

What she should have said was, "I TOLD you last year that we shouldn't get back together because I was planning to leave for New York and nothing was going to stop me, and YOU insisted we could just date until then, and then you PROPOSED to me and told me you'd come with me to New York. If you don't like that plan, that is your problem."


God, I wish Rachel would find her old self again and bust out one of her old self-determined statements of ambition. She should have told him to go ahead and clean pools with Puck if that's what he wants to do, but she'd be busy making a life for herself in New York.
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#10279

marymonroe

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Posted Apr 13, 2012 @ 10:33 PM

Yea but if Rachel did have that 12 step program or pushed him in any direction she would be crucified for that.

Rachel has actually been a good girlfriend for the most part, She has made herself clear on her intentions. She got assurances about NYC again before saying yes. She has stepped back and left Finn take the lead in his decision, she is letting him go through ideas not telling him what to do. She has been supportive of him, stokes his ego and stands up for him. She did not balk at his ideas until he did a 180 on their NYC plans which was the one thing they actually had talked about and agreed upon.

since she was originally the lead

She is still the lead.

Edited by marymonroe, Apr 13, 2012 @ 10:35 PM.

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#10280

Sadie T

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Posted Apr 13, 2012 @ 11:09 PM

Yea but if Rachel did have that 12 step program or pushed him in any direction she would be crucified for that.


Oh man, if she ever did do something like that she'd be accused of pushing her own agenda on Finn and being the most selfish person to ever walk the planet.

Rachel has actually been a good girlfriend for the most part, She has made herself clear on her intentions. She got assurances about NYC again before saying yes. She has stepped back and left Finn take the lead in his decision, she is letting him go through ideas not telling him what to do. She has been supportive of him, stokes his ego and stands up for him. She did not balk at his ideas until he did a 180 on their NYC plans which was the one thing they actually had talked about and agreed upon.


I agree, Rachel has actually been pretty chill about the whole thing. She's stepped back and focused on herself while allowing Finn to get his own shit together, but was quick to jump in with support and encouragement when he needed it. Of course her focusing on her own future makes her a selfish bitch in some people's eyes, but who else is going to plan for Rachel's future if not Rachel herself? Why should she change her entire life around for a boy who isn't at all sure what he wants and knew she was going to NYC from the beginning. I was honestly a little surprised by Finn's "one-sided" comment because while Rachel has been thinking primarily of her own future (as she should), she hasn't been pushing that future onto Finn. She just knows what she wants. Finn seems to be looking for leads and just blindly grasping at things he thinks will make him feel like less of a loser. He doesn't know what he wants so he's looking for someone or something to point him in the right direction, but then he's quick to change directions when something else comes along. He changed his mind a bunch of times this season, why is he so set on pool cleaning in California now? Is it because he's always dreamed of cleaning pools in sunny LA? Or does he just feel like a loser in comparison to the very ambitious Rachel and needs to assert his needs over hers to feel like he matters too? Rachel has had her plan set for a long time now. Why is wanting things for herself and working to get those things so selfish? But Finn demanding Rachel follow his ever changing whims not selfish?
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#10281

romantic idiot

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Posted Apr 14, 2012 @ 4:16 AM

since she was originally the lead

She is still the lead.

Eh - I'd say Kurt & Blaine are the leads now, followed by Finn and Rachel.
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#10282

jmcb

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Posted Apr 14, 2012 @ 9:17 AM

I think Rachel is still clearly the lead. Her storylines runs through most episodes. I would she hasn't had at least a sub plot in 2 or 3 episodes tops.

Kurt hasn't had much lately I'd say at least 6 episodes where he has no plot points and Blaine 7 or 8.

Blaine seems like he has more cause they let him sing for some reason.
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#10283

DrScheme

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Posted Apr 14, 2012 @ 10:00 AM

It's fascinating that Finn's innability to actually achieve anything on his own steam and force of will is being spun as an example of Rachel's selfishness.


Rachel is NOT a girlfriend. Rachel is NOT a fiancee. Rachel is a neglectful mother. Finn is a giant, insecure, manbaby.

Rachel is still very immature herself in quite a few ways and still has a lot of growing to do herself but I sometimes despair of the writers ever allowing that to happen because she is forced to wear the title of "Finn's Girlfriend" in name and bear the title "Finn's Wetnurse" in actions. Someone drives home to Finn that he's mediocre he cries pathetically until Rachel gives him the pacifier called her virginity. And so on and so forth. Ugh. Little Noah Puckerman throws out in idea while he and Finn are in the sandbox and now Finny Hudson want's to move to LA. rolls eyes. Whatever else she is Rachel is someone that tends to take things in her own hands for good or for ill. It seems very rare that she's content to just sit and let things happen for her. She want's it she is going to do anything she can to get it by hook or by crook.

Finn sits and waits for directions or ideas to be given to him. These 2 are so wrong for each other it's funny, except it's not.

Rachel has actually been a good girlfriend for the most part, She has made herself clear on her intentions. She got assurances about NYC again before saying yes. She has stepped back and left Finn take the lead in his decision, she is letting him go through ideas not telling him what to do. She has been supportive of him, stokes his ego and stands up for him. She did not balk at his ideas until he did a 180 on their NYC plans which was the one thing they actually had talked about and agreed upon.



And that's why I really can't see Finn's side of this whole thing. Rachel wanted him last year but decided it wouldn't work because NY is the most important thing to her. Bar NONE. She told Finn she is leaving Lima and she's NEVER coming back. Finn was the one that still continued his pursuit. Did he think that once she saw how "magical" life and romance was with him she would throw NY over the side?

She is still the lead.


In name. I'd say this year she's been more a supporting player to others. Much to the detriment of the show as continued rating trends can attest.
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#10284

jmcb

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Posted Apr 14, 2012 @ 11:03 AM

In name. I'd say this year she's been more a supporting player to others. Much to the detriment of the show as continued rating trends can attest.

But even in support they are still in part her stories. Same could be said of Kurt's stories are in support of her or Blaine.

Like her stories or her role in the stories or not she is still the person who is featured more than anyone else. To me that still says lead, especially in comparison to others.

Edited by jmcb, Apr 15, 2012 @ 12:03 AM.

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#10285

smrou

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Posted Apr 14, 2012 @ 1:09 PM

If having Finn in NY with her is so fucking important to Rachel, what has she done to make it work?

I understand what you're saying and I don't entirely disagree, but I'm not prepared to condemn Rachel for lack of effort on that front when it was Finn's idea to tie himself to her permanently, knowing and acknowledging that it meant moving to New York, and he doesn't seem to have done anything at all to find something for himself in New York.

So in other words, Rachel could have done more at this point to make sure Finn will find a place for himself in New York that isn't all about her and as his fiancée that would be a worthwhile thing for her to do, but I think doing that is more Finn's job than Rachel's (note that I'm not saying it's entirely Finn's job or entirely not Rachel's) and he hasn't done it at all either.

But I completely agree with the conclusion that all evidence points to Finn and Rachel being wrong for each other.
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#10286

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Posted Apr 16, 2012 @ 5:59 AM

Rachel could have done more at this point to make sure Finn will find a place for himself in New York that isn't all about her and as his fiancée that would be a worthwhile thing for her to do,

This is just more of why they're so wrong for each other. Rachel made it clear from the start she was going to NY with or without Finn (at least until she suddenly can't do it by herself anymore, because god forbid women on Glee can manage by themselves without a big strong man to save them), Finn agreed to that and decided to move to NY with her. It's not exactly her fault he hasnt't thought of something to do out there. Rachel's busy sorting her own career out, Finn can't expect her to fix his for him as well. It was at least nice to see Finn consider his future but once again it just comes as a reaction to a random suggestion from Puck. He rarely thinks about the actual details of life for himself. There's nothing wrong with his view but it's completely out of sync with how Rachel works. They make less and less sense together. I really with TPTB would see that instead of peddling them as love's young dream. There are so many glaring flaws in their relationship it's hard to see any romance in there at all.

On a shallow note Lea looked super pretty at Coachella. I'm even ok with the bangs for once.
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#10287

fireangel611

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Posted Apr 16, 2012 @ 8:12 AM

In name. I'd say this year she's been more a supporting player to others. Much to the detriment of the show as continued rating trends can attest.

If Rachel is not lead, then who is? Nobody has had as much to sing and act as she has. She is the lead and the face of this show imo. Also, you can't just ascribe one reason to the fall in ratings. It's not just Rachel's reduced screentime that's contributing to it. It might not even be that at all. I remember some article from the Fox people who said S2's high ratings were because Glee was still new and fresh and people were tuning in to check what the fuss was about, S3's 'dip' in ratings is because the show has comfortably found itself with its core audience.


Eh - I'd say Kurt & Blaine are the leads now, followed by Finn and Rachel.

Kurt and Blaine haven't had a scene with extended dialogue for 10 episodes. They got their moment in Big Brother, and the last time it happened was in the First Time. Finn and Rachel on the other hand? Has had an arc and several scenes every episode ever since their precious African pig made an appearance back in December last year. The show now has one consistent plot that sucks up a lot time more than any other story: their engagement. And even prior to Finchel-all-the-time, Finn and Rachel weren't exactly starved for stories. Rachel's WSS, Rachel vs Mercedes, class presidency, NYADA. Finn's role in Pot O Gold with Brittana + Rory, Finn/Santana for Mash Off and IKAG. And they also got the sex story Kurt and Blaine had. So I really fail to see how Kurt and Blaine are the leads.

Edited by fireangel611, Apr 16, 2012 @ 8:17 AM.

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#10288

OmniHelix

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Posted Apr 16, 2012 @ 8:44 AM

My feeling is all this floundering by Finn is designed to make him go on this Odyssey of self-discovery, only to find peace where the show has been pointing from the very beginning: making music, and, more specifically, making music with Rachel. How that is ultimately worked out isn't quite clear, but the clues, as I see them (which may be just head canon, I realize) have been scattered throughout the seasons:

Finn came back to Glee Club in the pilot because he wanted to be good at something. Of course, this was when the football team sucked ass, and when Coach Bieste came back and they actually started to win, he did entertain the possibility of a football career. But the seeds of him pursuing music were sown then. Finn may have had severe doubts about it, but his performing has improved. My guess is that he ends up in music--somehow.

Kurt told him that he possessed a unique set of talents that, while individually may not be necessarily star quality, taken together are greater than the sum of their parts. I don't think this was a throwaway concept, and that the plan has been for Finn to be very slow in realizing this.

Rachel has seen something in him from day one. Now I know some may think this is just wishful thinking on her part, the whole hot male lead/stunning young ingenue fantasy of a friendless girl, but, frankly, I don't think so. Their last angsty conversation in "Big Brother" was very interesting-- Finn thinks Rachel loves a fantasy of him that she has constructed in her mind. The reality, IMNSHO, is that her opinion of him is dead-on accurate, but he has to make the journey to get to the realization.

Back in S2, Rachel said her songwriting role models were Carole King and Gerry Goffin (yeah, she did also mention Joni Mitchell, but not as forcefully). Something in the back of my mind tells me that was a very deliberate choice on the part of the writers-- a husband-and-wife songwriting team--and which, in my very persistent head canon, will come to fruition.
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#10289

jmcb

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Posted Apr 16, 2012 @ 9:42 AM

It is getting more glaring every episode that Finn flounders that him playing the drum has yet to be discussed.
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#10290

Sara2009

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Posted Apr 16, 2012 @ 7:28 PM

This is random, but I'll say it anyway:

At Graduation I want at least one really great Will/Rachel scene. After all those two have been through together, it would be weird not to have one.
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