47 replies to this topic

[TWoP Gadget]

Tanya is dismayed when a "satisfied" customer says she won't be using Ray's services again. Later, Tanya pitches Happiness Consultants to other women in her office, with mixed results. Damon goes to after-school detention to hang out with his androgynous friend Powell, leaving Ray baffled. Lenore gives Ray some lessons in branding and, after a chance encounter at a department store, offers Jessica some lifestyle advice. (TVMA) (AC,AL)

[chimere]

Tanya is ridiculously stupid. First of all, the clients of an expensive, supposedly "high class" prostitution service absolutely have to be able to depend on the discretion of the service and its employees. People wealthy enough to pay for such an expensive service also are usually in a position where they cannot afford to have their reputation besmirched by rumors of having used prostitutes.

Furthermore, she is fouling her own nest there. You don't talk about such things where you work. It's illegal to run a service like that, and she is telling everyone she knows. In order to protect herself from criminal charges, she needs to make sure none of her clients knows her real name or where she can be found in her private life. Now everyone knows she is pimping, whether they use her service or not. And what's to prevent them from blackmailing her? Or from forcing her to make him "do" them for $50 or less--or else get reported to the cops?

This is getting too stupid to bear! I like the characters, but the writers are simply creating absurdities.

[trashophile]

Chimere, I sadly agree. And for all her risk taking, she's close to useless in getting Ray clients. A serious problem.

[Scrb]

Well they're complete amateurs feeling their way around.

Don't male escorts take older women to events but don't have sex with them so much?


Not sure if there's any development or it's just been a series of episodes in the lives of these characters. Ray and Tanya have had one "Aha!" moment but since then, they're stumbling from one adventure to the next.

Not altogether different from real life. People often don't see the mistakes they're making until they've had some separation of time from when those mistakes were made.

Their business is unique. They're making rules up in real-time. Let's also remember that neither of them have been big successes in life so it shouldn't be surprising that the learning curve is steep.

The absurdity of Tanya asking that woman if she wants to go through life never paying for sex points to the difficulty of selling the service.

Meanwhile Lenore seems to have designs on taking over from Tanya, doing market research (60-40 tongue over dick). Imagine if she were to convince Ray to specialize in the former, making the eponymous instrument somewhat superfluous.

Edited by Scrb, Aug 30, 2009 @ 10:10 PM.

[Kris]

Ray was right - Tanya is the worst pimp in the world.

She is unprofessional, lacks discretion, sucks at marketing, is running a risk of exposure and has little to no backbone to stand up to difficult clients.

It would serve her right if Ray did go off with Lenore as his new pimp.

[puppetmittens]

I'm starting to get annoyed at how women are portrayed on this show. Let's see -- Tanya is a horrible pimp and can't do anything right and is terrible at sex (according to Ray). Ray's ex-wife is needy with her kids and though she says it's not about the money married to her husband it's clear she probably married him for the security that was lacking with Ray. Next we have Lenora a bitch on wheels who is manipulative and really just needs a good tongue lashing by super lover stud Ray. It was insulting to me that asking for oral sex from Ray cost lots more when in fact for female prostitutes it's probably the number 1 way they service their customers.

I wanted to slap Tanya when she was using the idea of a woman not paying for sex as missing out on one of life's golden opportunities. Sorry to burst your bubble Tanya but if you polled women on this subject I'm willing to bet they wouldn't feel that way at all.

[peeayebee]

Poor Tanya. She isn't cut out to be a pimp. However, I agree with Scrb that it makes sense that she, and Ray, don't do things perfectly. I want Tanya to succeed... in SOMETHING! so I'm more than willing to watch her learn and grow. I just hope she DOES learn and grow.

Lenore knows what she's doing, but I'm rooting for her to fail. I don't see that happening. I can't imagine her NOT being in control.

It was insulting to me that asking for oral sex from Ray cost lots more when in fact for female prostitutes it's probably the number 1 way they service their customers.

But it was in character for Ray to ask for extra money. His claim to fame is his dick. It was no surprise to me that he would ask for extra money when he was probably insulted thinking his dick wasn't enough. The extra money was kind of for spite.

I really didn't think Damon would turn out to be gay. I thought that was just what Ray was thinking. I liked the scene of him and Darby talking as they rock-climbed.

Loved Ray's line: "Who do I have to fuck around here to get my kids back?"

[CantThinkUpName]

Ordinarily, I like in HBO shows how they let people grow into their roles. When a character starts a new venture, they have to find their footing and, like in life, it takes time. I like that characters usually don't just have a crazy skill set from the word go.

But Tanya is so bad at pimping that what I originally thought was someone being wet behind the ears I now see as utter incompetence to the point where without a mentor (including Lenore) I think it's increasingly stupid to put one's faith in her. I don't think she has the mental or emotional capability to be a pimp without some sort of rigorous training by someone who knows what they're doing. I'm not saying I don't want Tanya to succeed at something, but not this. She seems incapable of learning what to do and what she's doing wrong. It's an illegal business and Tanya seems to keep asking the same people from her law office, none of whom look like they can afford to throw away $600 a night. Chalk me up as another who thinks Ray should go with Lenore.

I also think the "paying for sex is part of being a woman" spiel is part of her horribly misguided ad campaign, not that she really believes it's some sort of golden opportunity that every women should take part in.

Edited by CantThinkUpName, Aug 31, 2009 @ 1:14 AM.

[fattymatty]

But Tanya is so bad at pimping that what I originally thought was someone being wet behind the ears I now see as utter incompetence to the point where without a mentor (including Lenore) I think it's increasingly stupid to put one's faith in her.

Boy is she bad. She needs to smarten up. I do root for her most of the time. But the more she sucks at this, the more I resent her. Hopefully she teams up with Lenore. I'm sure she has something to offer to this business, but she needs some major help.

[artgal]

Tanya really seemed to hit bottom this week. I like that she is a flawed character, but I'm really hoping for some growth for her. It seemed to be happening and now she's just desperate and awful. I think Horny Patty was absolutely right to corner her in the bathroom and threaten her. She needs to wake up and realize that she has no idea what she is doing. I think if Ray is serious about making a lot of money as a prostitute, he should switch to Lenore.

I know that was faux oral sex, but geez, Thomas Jane really had to get up close and personal with that actress' bajingo in order to pull that scene off. What strange jobs these people have. Also, was it ever explained why they were having sex in a furniture store?

The actress playing Lenore is doing a great job. She is going whole hog to make that character crazy, mean, aggressive and sexy.

I'm still on the fence about whether I like this show, but I'm interested enough to keep watching.

[Scrb]

Tanya has no idea of the clientele which would use Ray's services.

Lenore already has a clientele and if they're not exact matches, she knows the type who might be willing to use his services.

It's actually surprising that she found the first couple of clients, including Jemma.

She did the personal ads but what other approach would there be, craigslist?

[uclagirl]

Also, was it ever explained why they were having sex in a furniture store?

Or why he was trying on suits there?

[Imonrey]

Strangely I find Ray's ex and his kids to be the most compelling characters on the show. Ray himself is just kind of meh and Tanya is abysmal. She is reaching levels of being pathetic that are cringeworthy. I still see Lenore trying to hook Jessica up with Ray. Can see it from a mile away.

[isiscloud]

It's so bizarre that the character's name is Lenore since that's my mom's name and she is so NOT like this Lenore.

Strangely I find Ray's ex and his kids to be the most compelling characters on the show. Ray himself is just kind of meh and Tanya is abysmal. She is reaching levels of being pathetic that are cringeworthy. I still see Lenore trying to hook Jessica up with Ray. Can see it from a mile away.

That's probably coming (heh) in the finale. I can hardly watch this show everyone's so pathetic - even Jessica. She reminds me too much of Jessica from Soap. Maybe that's why her name is Jessica! I don't like Jessica either, but she's not quite as pathetic as Tanya. I like Ray and I like that he's sort of trying to take whatever control he can from what he's doing.

Ray was right - Tanya is the worst pimp in the world.

She is unprofessional, lacks discretion, sucks at marketing, is running a risk of exposure and has little to no backbone to stand up to difficult clients.

It would serve her right if Ray did go off with Lenore as his new pimp.

Absolutely 100% agree! Does she even screen people?? It would serve her right to get thrown in jail. And Pierce is in Cuba??

[Wittgenstein]

Rebecca Creskoff has such a dynamic presence as Lenore that I'm surprised she's not a star - and I'm at a complete loss as to which character she might have played on Mad Men (Barbara Katz, apparently).

Tanya crossed so many lines that she deserves to lose both her jobs - and it's kind of odd that the show seems intent on making her increasingly pathetic and desperate.

[surlygirl]

I've been annoyed with Tanya since episode one, but this last episode may have pushed me over the edge. she's just awful! and it's making Ray awful for sticking around and letting her complete and utter incompetence, keep him as a two-bit gigolo when he clearly has the goods to be a modern day American Gigolo! And I absolutely hate those full body flops that Tanya does all the time. It makes her seem even more pathetic if that's even possible at this point. I did like the scenes with Lenore and Ray in this episode. She's hilarious!

[freespeech]

Agree with latest posts, Lenore should be a star on the show. The actress and character is engaging on-screen.

I am at a loss to what to think of Tanya now. I get that they are writing her as pathetic at times, but why so over the top? I absolutely hated that shot of her pubic hair in the pink razor that Ray felt he had to look away from while taking a bath in Tanya's bathtub (in a previous episode). The Tanya character is acting more and more kooky/crazy/skittish by the episode. It might be realistic in real-life, but it does not work in this show, to me. Where is she going/progressing?

I think this episode is representative of the season. Hot Ray satisfies a woman. His ex-wife is unsatisfied except maybe satisfied through shopping. Tanya can't cut it as a pimp. Lenore can get a clientele that he can serve.

It's all been moving too slowly for me at times, and too crass at times. I am intrigued by his kids, but don't much care about their sexual mores or experimentation.

I really think the show was well-conceived, but has been poorly written.

Edited by freespeech, Aug 31, 2009 @ 7:27 PM.

[dcinmb]

Rebecca Creskoff has such a dynamic presence as Lenore that I'm surprised she's not a star - and I'm at a complete loss as to which character she might have played on Mad Men (Barbara Katz, apparently).

Barbara Katz was Rachel's older sister.

[uclagirl]

I really think the show was well-conceived, but has been poorly written.

Agreed--interesting premise and themes, bad character development and script.

[Wittgenstein]

Agreed--interesting premise and themes, bad character development and script.

Unfortunately that was the problem with Lipkin's previous series The Riches.

I recall being similarly wary of Hung when the show first aired. But I have to say that I don't agree in this instance. I've been enjoying the scripts and characters immensely, and like the fact that I haven't being able to second guess the show at all.

With the season nearly over, though, I'm puzzled as to how the themes and characters are supposed to relate to each other.

and thanks dcinmb - and I still can't imagine this actress in that role or Mad Men.

Edited by Wittgenstein, Aug 31, 2009 @ 9:39 PM.

[BooksCatsEtc]

Rebecca Creskoff has such a dynamic presence as Lenore that I'm surprised she's not a star

Since Lenore is clearly the one who both knows how to be a pimp, and has access to the right sort of customer (i.e. very rich), I think the writers have painted themselves into a corner with her character. Lenore should be the one running Ray, but they've already got Tanya doing, so now what? I don't think they can write Lenore out because she's too much fun, but keeping her around is just going to point up Tanya's ineptitude.

Tanya crossed so many lines that she deserves to lose both her jobs - and it's kind of odd that the show seems intent on making her increasingly pathetic and desperate.

Are we supposed to be identifying, or at least sympathizing, with her? If that was the intention the writers missed the mark by a mile.

I hate to admit it, because I honestly enjoy the show, but I think this is going to be case of a good idea that the writers (or whoever) lost control of by not thinking things thru well or far enough so that they end up with a mess they can't write themselves out of. Kind of like what happened to Carnavale.

[Wittgenstein]

Carnavale only got better in my view.

Is Hung on next week? Or is it (like True Blood) taking a week off?

[peeayebee]

I think it's taking a week off.

[redrobin27]

Since Lenore is clearly the one who both knows how to be a pimp, and has access to the right sort of customer (i.e. very rich), I think the writers have painted themselves into a corner with her character. Lenore should be the one running Ray, but they've already got Tanya doing, so now what?

Yep, exactly. I actually prefer the dynamic between Lenore and Ray because it's completely free of pretense or sentimentality and lacks the somewhat pitiful underscore that I perceive between Ray and Tanya. It's obvious to me they don't like each other, so it would clearly be about business. Lenore is interested in growing the business, and has the marketing sense for it, but she has her own life as well, so there is no expectation of friendship on her part (frankly, I feel like the Ray/Tanya friendship is one largely of convenience for Ray). Lenore is a crass, thieving manipulator with the ability to cut to heart of the matter, who has questionable fashion sense herself while dispensing advice to women with means. Kudos to the actress for making a character who, on paper, should be the least likeable, pretty damn watchable on screen.

It's kind of a shame they didn't go with Lenore and Ray as the business team. Seems like it would be a completely different kind of show. Of course, mileage may vary as to whether that would be a good thing, but I am of the mindset that it would be.

ETA:
Linda was hilarious. She was steadfast about that $50.

Edited by redrobin27, Sep 1, 2009 @ 10:30 PM.

[uclagirl]

But I have to say that I don't agree in this instance. I've been enjoying the scripts and characters immensely, and like the fact that I haven't being able to second guess the show at all.

I think it's often overwritten. The most egregious example was all of the dialogue about Jessica taking the nutcracker; a show that was smarter (or knew that we're smart enough to get the joke) would have needed nothing beyond her delight at finding it, and possibly an eyeroll from Ray. But in every episode I come across something that makes me think, "Really? They needed to spell that out for us?"

[CantThinkUpName]

Are we supposed to be identifying, or at least sympathizing, with [Tanya]? If that was the intention the writers missed the mark by a mile.

I don't know. In a way, I kind of do because she's so needy, pathetic and sad. And I'd wish her all the luck in the world with her stupid poetry cookie idea. But when it comes to pimping, where her only ideas are saying "selling the experience!" and asking people at Wagner and Finch, I can't come to her side. It doesn't help that when Lenore smacks her down repeatedly using intelligence and logical points, she gets tongue-tied and acts like Lenore is the villain for challenging her. She doesn't even seem to be happy or enjoy being a pimp. Maybe if she threw herself into it with some sort of gusto or passion (like Lenore would) I'd want to see her succeed but instead she too often comes across as lazy, pissy and completely oblivious to why she fails.

I think Tanya would be an interesting character if this show was about Bania's class and the psychological hang-ups that make some of us failures and some of us successes. But in this show, she's putting Ray and her clients in jeopardy by her incompetence and does not even seem aware (nor does it seem to be brought up) of it. At least if she realized it but didn't care, I could latch onto that as a positive character trait.

I feel like the Ray/Tanya friendship is one largely of convenience for Ray).

I definitely agree with that. Ray doesn't seem to value Tanya all that much (not that I can blame him), probably because he has an actual life outside of hooking (while Tanya doesn't seem to), and he sticks with her more because she's there rather than out of a sense loyalty. But they're different in that Ray has been struck by a series of failures while Tanya is an out-and-out loser.

[redrobin27]

Maybe if she threw herself into it with some sort of gusto or passion (like Lenore would) I'd want to see her succeed but instead she too often comes across as lazy, pissy and completely oblivious to why she fails.

The end of the world is nigh, as I cannot believe I'm about to defend Tanya....kind of.

I think Tanya is passionate about trying to make HC profitable. I don't think she's lazy so much as the worst pimp to ever pimp since the history of pimping. I'd say it's more of a complete absence of common sense (which annoys me even more when she gets into her condescending "Ms Morality" mode with Ray as she likes to do). This is the same person who visits and holds conversation about the illlegal business with her hooker at his day job, a public school. That with the lack of business acumen is just all kinds of trainwrecky.

As you said, CantThinkUpName, she also has a total lack of self-awareness.....and can you really succeed in any business, legal or no, without that? Granted, Ray isn't the pinnacle of introspection, either, but he seems to at least listen to advice when he can directly benefit from it. That's half the battle, I'd say.

[CantThinkUpName]

Maybe lazy was the wrong word. What I more meant was her lack of self-awareness leading to her not trying to improve herself or her pimpery. However, I did see her more passionate about pimping at the beginning of the season (as she might have considered it more as another of her little projects that never amount to anything) than I do now (when real people and real stakes are involved).

And I too hate when she goes into her "Ms. Morality" mode. And I also agree robin that Ray is more willing to be open to new ideas and advice than Tanya.

Edited by CantThinkUpName, Sep 2, 2009 @ 6:50 PM.

[jennifda]

While it may kill the whole Tanya vs Lenore vibe they seem to be going for, why couldn't Ray have two pimps? Service the clients Lenore sends (giving her a percentage) and those that Tanya may possibly find? They could even compete to see who can get him the most business. It's going to take a lot of money to fix up his house, so I don't see him complaining of being overworked.

[jennifda]

While it may kill the whole Tanya vs Lenore vibe they seem to be going for, why couldn't Ray have two pimps? Service the clients Lenore sends (giving her a percentage) and those that Tanya may possibly find? They could even compete to see who can get him the most business. It's going to take a lot of money to fix up his house, so I don't see him complaining of being overworked.