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Love It or List It


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#361

Lola16

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Posted Jan 16, 2013 @ 6:31 PM

What I find interesting is that none of the homeowners ever dispute the pre-renovation value that David gives. Almost on every other renovation show, the homeowners insist that their properties are worth more.
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#362

Lola16

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Posted Jan 16, 2013 @ 6:31 PM

What I find interesting is that none of the homeowners ever dispute the pre-renovation value that David gives. Almost on every other renovation show, the homeowners insist that their properties are worth more.
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#363

needschocolate

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Posted Jan 17, 2013 @ 12:08 AM

This show is a great premise - reno and stay or sell it and find a new place. Almost every HGTV show revolves around one of these three things - design/remodel, renovate/construction, or buying a house. This show has all three. But I think it was too difficult to make this situation actually happen - can't have David really be their agent and who would spend $50,000 renovating when they will only get about $30,000 more for their house if they decide to sell. So they had to inflate the value and, because producers believe no one will tune in unless there is conflict or drama - they have to have a couple of houses that don't fit their list, and their has to be problems that eat up the budget. The trouble is every episode ends up being pretty much the same. And quite unrealistic.

Do the homeowners really pay for the renovations, or does the show foot the bill?

Wherever Hilary and David film must be really expensive. The show I saw last night, a 1700 sq. ft. house was selling for $949,000.

If it weren't for the way they pronounce certain words, one would think they do the show in certain parts of California. I believe they actually film around Toronto.
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#364

Ketzel

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Posted Jan 17, 2013 @ 12:29 AM

Remember that show HGTV had on a while ago called "Bang For Your Buck," where Lisa LaPorta and others assessed the renovations done by three different homeowners? The one whose renovation choices raised the value of the home the most (after the cost of the reno was deducted) was the winner. Usually the added value was between 50-95% of the cost. And those renos were actual structural changes, like new cabinets or an added swimming pool or skylights and things like that - not couches and knick-knacks. Right now I can't think of a single episode where the renovations were judged to have added over 100% of their cost to the home value. But the miraculous Hilary does it once a week!
Please, how do I get her to come and remodel my kitchen? I need the money! :-)

Edited by Ketzel, Jan 17, 2013 @ 12:30 AM.

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#365

needschocolate

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Posted Jan 17, 2013 @ 12:02 PM

I have been taping and watching Bang for Your Buck - good background noise. I just saw aan episode a few days ago where they the cost of the reno assed exactly 100% to the value. Unfortunately, I don't remember which episode it was because it was background noise for me.

Maybe Hillary isn't such a miracle worker - maybe David is a horrible appraiser.
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#366

lu1wml

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Posted Jan 17, 2013 @ 2:14 PM

Maybe Hillary isn't such a miracle worker - maybe David is a horrible appraiser.


It would be fun if you could have the same people and house on a couple of shows, LIOLI, Property Brothers, and have Bryan Baeumler or Mike Holmes come in and give their opinion and work on the houses.
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#367

gazerguy

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Posted Jan 17, 2013 @ 2:23 PM

I consider the $$$ on all of these programs funny money, although it may be true that homeowners receive a higher return from updating a vintage Toronto home than the U.S. averages. Same thing for the discrepancy with the PB's figures. If the numbers represent reality at all, the discrepancy doesn't surprise me. Labor costs would likely be far lower in TX than Toronto. (Labor's usually the most significant reno cost.)

I'm sure they receive some freebies and a contribution from the show, similar to the other reno programs filming currently. Wouldn't surprise me if the furnishings are props, either. Like other HGTV programs, the homeowners probably pay most of the costs.

The homeowners have no reason to dispute the appraisal - they're doing the reno for themselves. The show films the LIOLI decision 2 ways and then decides for them in the editing room. Otherwise, don't believe they'd be willing to contribute significant $$$ to the reno.

Production companies don't do surprises so I'm sure they complete a pre-inspection of each home and have a work plan. No wonder they magically only demo what ends up completed within the budget. Amazing!

Feels like they toned down the fighting between the parties in S4 so somebody must have checked out the feedback.

All just MHO.
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#368

Emily Thrace

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Posted Jan 18, 2013 @ 11:53 PM

I consider the $$$ on all of these programs funny money, although it may be true that homeowners receive a higher return from updating a vintage Toronto home than the U.S. averages. Same thing for the discrepancy with the PB's figures. If the numbers represent reality at all, the discrepancy doesn't surprise me. Labor costs would likely be far lower in TX than Toronto. (Labor's usually the most significant reno cost.)


Yeah its not funny money its the Toronto real estate market if you want to see some crazy stuff check out the first couple of seasons of Property Virgins or the late lamented Buy Me. Your right about the labour costs too, the labour shortage in Toronto isn't quite as bad as in the west, but even an uskilled dogbody on a construction site makes 12-15 dollars an hour in Toronto.
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#369

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Posted Jan 19, 2013 @ 10:25 AM

Definitely agree with you WRT the value of Toronto real estate as compared to other metropolitan areas, Emily. When I called the numbers "funny money", I was merely referring to the general unreliability of reality television. Don't believe for a second that David performs a professional "evaluation" or an actual "appraisal" to arrive at those figures. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if they filmed multiple outcomes with various results, although their unrealistic appreciation (from the reno) is somewhat consistent (IMHO & IIRC) from episode to episode.

OTOH, I do believe that Toronto home sellers may realize more appreciation than U.S. sellers, if they own a vintage home and upgrade its systems. Simply have serious doubts that David's property values represent actual reality. JMHO -

Edited by gazerguy, Jan 22, 2013 @ 4:09 PM.

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#370

Emily Thrace

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Posted Jan 19, 2013 @ 1:08 PM

Definitely agree with you WRT the value of Toronto real estate as compared to other metropolitan areas, Emily. When I called the numbers "funny money", I was merely referring to the general unreliability of reality television. Don't believe for a second that David performs a professional "evaluation" or an actual "appraisal" to arrive at those figures. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if they filmed multiple takes with various results, although their unrealistic appreciation (from the reno) is somewhat consistent (IMHO & IIRC) from episode to episode.


Except since the show doesn't milk David's numbers for drama I don't see why they would bother. I think the variations in pricing have to do with the fact that the show films all over the GTA and there is a fair amount of variation in Real Estate values over that area (even though it all around double what you would pay in my part of the country). Plus the numbers would have a big effect on the families ability to buy their next house and since many of them do, I would imagine the numbers would need to be accurate. Personally I think if anything is filmed with multiple take its Hilary's reveals to the homeowners of what she can't do because of x problem.
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#371

gazerguy

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Posted Jan 22, 2013 @ 4:08 PM

Like all metropolitan areas, real estate values within the GTA vary from location to location and neighborhood to neighborhood. That doesn't confirm, however, that David's figures are accurate, IMHO. David works for the production company and wouldn't be acting as their realtor, anyway. If necessary, they can easily use ranges or estimates for various GTA neighborhoods for LIOLI's purposes.

No, we actually don't know how many participants, if any, purchased another home as a result of their participation on LIOLI. Saw the application materials once and it only contained a vague question (IIRC) asking if the homeowners had ever thought about moving up. (Who hasn't?) Yes, we know the show statistics but press coverage contains very little or no reporting about LIOLI participants and the aftermath of the show. Sounds like LIOLI requires a nondisclosure -

We do know, however, that LIOLI films both final outcomes (love it/list it) for each episode. Makes sense given that their statistics run approximately 50/50. In addition, if we believe the reported renovation budgets, those sound like "love-it budgets" instead of list-it or selling/fixing-up expense budgets. Needless to say, have to assume that these participants sign up for a subsidized home renovation plus a little RE play-acting.

Someone from a production company recently reported that reality television is 1% reality and 99% fake. I, for one, definitely believe it. All of the above is JMHO and YMMV.

BTW, should have said "multiple outcomes" instead of "multiple takes" above - will edit.

Edited by gazerguy, Jan 22, 2013 @ 4:11 PM.

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#372

Shermie

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Posted Jan 22, 2013 @ 6:32 PM

Just saw a Vancouver LIOLI ep and the couple had a buying budget of $2.3 million! They were very "First World problems" with their issues, although if you're going to spend that kind of money, I guess you want everything on your list.

Their existing house was his parents' old place and the wife loved it, loved the history of her husband having grown up there. The rooms they had redone were beautiful and looked crazy next to the ones they had left untouched. It was very late '70s with panelling and a cedar lined bathroom. Such a clash of design walking from one room into the next. I guess they were the types who wouldn't just do a quick cosmetic redo, but gutted and redid each room top of the line as they went.

The designer ended up finding asbestos and black mould in the house, which ate up a huge chunk of their reno $$$. They were okay with that needing to be fixed and it just reinforced the husband's desire to move. What they never mention is that fixing asbestos and mould problems would legally have to be done when they sold the house, regardless.

The reno was fantastic, as were the three houses they looked at, but what do you expect with that kind of budget?
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#373

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Posted Jan 23, 2013 @ 12:21 PM

I saw most of that episode, but missed the end. Did they "love" or "list"?

I thought Jillian and Todd(?) were a poor man's version of Hillary and David. They were clearly trying to play the exact same parts, but I didn't like either as much as the originals. David's annoying enough; pretend-David was worse; why couldn't he have just been himself? It can't possibly have been worse.

Similarly, they had the same silly banter that Hillary and David do, but I almost buy it from Hillary and David because they've been working together a long time. Giving the exact same schtick to two youngsters who clearly barely know each other just felt wrong.
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#374

Lola16

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Posted Jan 23, 2013 @ 2:35 PM

I saw an episode this morning of an Indian family with 4 young daughters (20s) and an aged father. I joined about 15 minutes in so I missed the set-up but what I got out of it was the family bought this house together and wanted to renovate it so they could continue to live together as adults. One of the youngest ran a catering business and wanted a separate kitchen for it in the basement for her business. The father always sided with the eldest 2 who never agreed with the youngest 2. Everyone was decided by family vote so it meant that the eldest bitchiest sister would get her way every time. The 2 youngest share a bedroom and wanted 2 bedrooms and a bath also put in the basement so it would be like their own apartment. Older bitchy sister wanted to take over their current bedroom upstairs and turn it into a study area for herself and she wanted her bathroom updated.

Supposedly the basement had rough-ins for plumbing (it was a newish home from a builder) but didn't so that was part of the 'drama'. The other part of the drama was that the town was thinking of rezoning the neighborhood and wouldn't allow a second kitchen *maybe*. Older bitchy sister decided that then, they wouldn't put a kitchen in the basement and the younger sister with the business could continue to struggle around their schedules to use the existing one. As if that wasn't bitchy enough, after the basement was framed and plumbing was installed, older bitchy sister decided to take away the 2nd bedroom from the basement and convert it to family space which really meant more space for her because she has a lot of little kids toys that she doesn't want cluttering up the main level where she lives. Hilary thankfully told her that she'd then lose 2 things she wanted --- her private study space (since the one sister now will keep that bedroom) and the makeover of her bathroom since they now have to undo the walls etc in the basement.

I really wanted the 2 youngest to be like - cash us out and we'll get our own place.

I bet after the show left, the sisters were able to pull out a cabinet in the basement and put a stove in. If the rules weren't schedule to be set for another 8 months, I'd put in the stove.

Edited by Lola16, Jan 23, 2013 @ 2:36 PM.

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#375

Shermie

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Posted Jan 23, 2013 @ 3:19 PM

I saw most of that episode, but missed the end. Did they "love" or "list"?

They chose to list. I think their names were Mike and Melinda.

Re: the Indian family
I'm not sure if they were Indian. They were Middle Eastern (if I'm thinking of the same ep, and really, how many could there be with an elder father and four grown daughters?), and one of their requirements was to have a worship space in their house. I think it had to face a certain direction (likely Mecca). Did this family also have a huge closet full of beautiful saris that needed to be stored?

I really wanted the 2 youngest to be like - cash us out and we'll get our own place.

Culturally, that would never happen. If the older sisters hadn't moved out, the father certainly wouldn't give permission for the younger ones to leave.

The other part of the drama was that the town was thinking of rezoning the neighborhood and wouldn't allow a second kitchen *maybe*. Older bitchy sister decided that then, they wouldn't put a kitchen in the basement and the younger sister with the business could continue to struggle around their schedules to use the existing one.

That's fake drama, or a fake catering business. Legally in Ontario, a home-based catering business requires a separate kitchen. Not that she couldn't be working under-the-table, but now that she's been on TV...
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#376

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Posted Jan 26, 2013 @ 3:49 PM

That was the family, Shermie. They were Indian (said so). Never mentioned Mecca (naturally) and said the prayer room should occupy the highest point in the home.

When they introduced them, I expected the father to be Switzerland so surprised he ganged up with the older sisters, supposedly. NBD but it was the other younger sister (not the older or the caterer) who was in school and needed study space. It appeared the den (occupied by the kiddie play tent) was probably originally intended to function as the office.

The zoning issue was actually building out a separate living space, i.e. not a stove or second kitchen per se, IIRC. Installing a stove would have converted the basement into a second apartment.

This has been a major issue in the GTA for years as the growing suburbs passed local ordinances disallowing separate apartments. They were allowed, in Toronto, itself. Opponents cited traffic and a strain on local services but proponents called it class warfare or redlining.

IIRC, the provincial gov't passed an ordinance trumping the various local ordinances last summer, allowing them. In fact, that upcoming vote may have been what Hilary and Desta mentioned.

So, they can probably install a stove, now. May be a bigger job than they're expecting, however. They'll need to vent it properly. BTW, it appeared Hilary's plan included only a 4-burner cooktop. During the reveal, looked liked the island was scaled down from the plan, too. Thought she wanted a commercial kitchen -

Failed to understand why these people purchased a spanking brand new home w/o sufficient bedroom and bathroom space to accommodate 5 adults. They mentioned the grandkids belonged to an add'l 2 older sisters who didn't appear on camera during the episode. IDK, thought the older 2 who were supposedly living at home should have been married off by now. A little fake drama to score the LIOLI basement reno??

JMHO, all of the above.r

Edited by diydude, Jan 27, 2013 @ 7:10 PM.

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#377

Bartlet4Pawnee

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Posted Jan 28, 2013 @ 9:20 PM

Does anyone know which episode had a family with so much stuff and so little space that one of the kids, Byrne (Bern? Berne?) had his bedroom in a walkway to a closet? They seemed to have a lot of coats.
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#378

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Posted Jan 29, 2013 @ 7:20 AM

Wow. The pregnant wife from last night's show (Julia?) behaved like a bratty, sullen teenager. I knew they'd pick "love it," because she was so nasty to Hilary, but I kept hoping they'd go with the house that was almost $100K over their budget -- just to drag her down in a financial hole.
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#379

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Posted Jan 29, 2013 @ 9:28 AM

I'm surprised that they loved it being that she didn't get her kitchen or basement. I guess the price of the new house was too much for them. She was so nasty to Hilari.
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#380

Imonrey

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Posted Jan 29, 2013 @ 3:31 PM

So far I've seen about a dozen episodes of this show and it seems to me the home owners decide to "love it" about 99% of the time. Which leads me to suspect they never had any intention of moving and only used the gimmick to get some money for a remodel job and chance to be on TV.

But I kind of didn't blame that wife for being snippy with Hilari. Without fail she's always promising something she can't end up delivering because they always find some unexpected electrical and/or plumbing problem a huge chunk of the budget has to be spent on. Also, that wallpaper was hideous, and if some "designer" told me they were putting it up anyway even if I didn't like it, they'd be fired, TV show or no.
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#381

bataviaduo

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Posted Jan 29, 2013 @ 4:54 PM

On the other hand, I watched a marathon a week ago or so and everyone listed! It usually comes down to how many structural problems Hilary has to deal with and what she winds up doing. Saw one the other day where I can't remember how many kids they had but they were all small. Hilary gave them a great kitchen but I'm thinking what happens when these kids are teens and they would like to have some space of their own. They were shown a great house with plenty of space and a yard but the mom just did not want to move. She got her kitchen in the old home and that was about it
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#382

Lola16

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Posted Jan 29, 2013 @ 7:06 PM

If this was real, I'd submit my requests to Hilary and ask her for a budget. Then I'd see what I could afford and include a 10% buffer for the knob & tube.
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#383

gazerguy

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Posted Jan 29, 2013 @ 7:33 PM

Production companies don't do surprises so I'm sure they have a very good punchlist and budget prior to filming/construction. They don't share that with the viewers, however. Gotta' amp up the drama or at least attempt to, IMHO. Otherwise, they wouldn't only demo the rooms ultimately completed 99.9999% of the time.

WRT the love it v. list it decision, IMHO it comes down to the editor. They film many hours to produce each 1 hour/44 minute episode and it can probably go either way each and every time. (That's why they film both endings.) The official stats are approximately 50/50. Amazing how that happens!

Have only heard about 1 participant advertising years after-the-fact that they'd supposedly "loved it" and were now selling their home. They must sign some airtight nondisclosures in exchange for the 10K plus of promotional merchandise and other freebies received.

JMHO and YMMV, as always.

P.S. Anyone ever heard anything else about the participants?

Edited by gazerguy, Jan 29, 2013 @ 7:35 PM.

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#384

lu1wml

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Posted Jan 29, 2013 @ 9:42 PM

Yes the wife was rude, but I was already on her side, because she was married to that jerk.
All his "that's an easy fix" weren't fixed. That missing railings looked scary.
He was really throwing around those space heaters, even putting one in the nursery.
I associated space heaters with house fires, and I'd have to be really freezing before I'd use one.
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#385

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Posted Jan 29, 2013 @ 10:03 PM

I agree that he was a big jerk lu1wml. I just don't like the way people are portrayed on this show for some reason. Poor Hillari is always getting yelled at like these things are her fault. I also cannot stand that Eddie. He's a poor actor and always has that dopey smirk on his face when he's saying "oh you can't do that". Ugh.

I have to admit Hillari does good work and I'd love to see an actual renovation of everything for once.
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#386

lu1wml

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Posted Jan 29, 2013 @ 10:07 PM

I have to admit Hillari does good work and I'd love to see an actual renovation of everything for once.

Wouldn't that be nice! I'd love to see it.
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#387

Elle45

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Posted Jan 30, 2013 @ 1:55 PM

Just discovered this show. I'm really enjoying it!

I do think that Hilary is at disadvantage for most of the projects because she never gets an adequate budget for the amount of things the owners want. She is really talented! But this show kinda makes me prejudice against older houses- the upkeep is insane!
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#388

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Posted Jan 30, 2013 @ 7:06 PM

Ah, this show is silly, but I like it. The Hilary-David dynamic is corny and cute. Anyway, I'm fascinated by the horrors that lurk inside old homes--having been there myself.
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#389

Shermie

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Posted Jan 30, 2013 @ 9:21 PM

So far I've seen about a dozen episodes of this show and it seems to me the home owners decide to "love it" about 99% of the time.

As mentioned, the love-its versus the list-its is about even. You just have to keep watching.

I just watched an ep I've never seen. The couple was Alice and Desmond, she was a lawyer and he was a realtor, so guess which one wanted to move? They had a great townhouse (that seemed like an actual house) in a great location, but it was a little tight for their three growing sons. They had room to grow, but put the $85,000 reno budget to the wrong thing - rejigging the main floor, which was perfectly functional as is. A fourth bedroom seemed like a much bigger priority to me.

On top of it, the wife - who wanted to stay - insisted Hillary remove the main floor powder room. When her realtor hubby said it would affect the ease of selling the place, the wife kept saying that was irrelevant, since they were staying. She didn't want anyone using a bathroom just off the kitchen, for whatever reason (she never really said).

In the end, they decided to list it! So now David has to sell their million-dollar+ home and it has one less bathroom! (David even commented on that.) But the really stupid contrivance was that David did his usual, "Your home was worth $1.1 million before, but you spent $85,000 on renos, so now it's worth $1,210,000." In what universe does spending money to remove a bathroom from a million-dollar home increase its value? Shenanigans!

And they were fools to leave that house - it was on a lake and had city views.
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#390

gazerguy

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Posted Jan 31, 2013 @ 7:45 AM

Bet they still live there, Shermie. These people only sign up for a home reno plus their 15 minutes of fame, IMHO. The major reno jobs wouldn't be contemplated by anyone who actually intends to list their home. WRT the code work, asbestos and knob/tube wiring situations addressed by the LIOLI team, those issues usually wouldn't be discovered by an inspector; they're typically not required to open up walls, demo floors or other spaces to locate hidden conditions. That's why these problems weren't remediated years or even decades earlier.

Would be surprised to hear that David listed any of these homes, if any of these homeowners actually sell. First and foremost, he works for the production company and they wouldn't accept the liability associated with a RE transaction. Furthermore, his brother's office (where David's registered) is located 60 miles north of Toronto, out in the country/boonies. IMHO, sellers typically experience far greater success and prefer to work with local area realtors.

Edited by gazerguy, Jan 31, 2013 @ 8:37 AM.

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