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#9001

nyrose

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Posted May 14, 2012 @ 8:21 PM

Good News: Re: ALEX

http://tvline.com/20...-collar-votsis/

Thanks nicodelaney for the links with the pictures.. love the black and white..

Edited by nyrose, May 14, 2012 @ 8:24 PM.

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#9002

Big Bad Wolf

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Posted May 15, 2012 @ 7:13 AM

Any chance we might be able to take it as a good sign that Burton isn't in those USA B&W photos?
Spoiler


And totally off-topic, but Sharon Gless is looking amazing. Go Sharon!

Edited by Big Bad Wolf, May 15, 2012 @ 7:14 AM.

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#9003

annapl

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Posted May 15, 2012 @ 9:12 AM

I think Eastin believes her to be one of the main stars of White Collar who deserves as much spotline as the main characters, so IMO whenever she will be on screen she will have a mayor role. I expect her sister storyline coming up and a tender sharing moments between her and Neal-they both had lost family member, after all...
J.E. promised
Spoiler
so this is probably how it is gonna start.
O.K. that is it. I promised myslef I will stop wondering with disbelief why the writers feel they should expand her role more than necessary and give her more storyline than the others more established and more liked characters, so I will stop here and try very, very hard not to be tempted again to come here and bitch about our favourite lady.

Ona a bright note
Spoiler

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#9004

annapl

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Posted May 15, 2012 @ 9:22 AM

post canceled-the board hiccup and posted the same post twice

Edited by annapl, May 15, 2012 @ 9:24 AM.

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#9005

nicodelaney

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Posted May 15, 2012 @ 11:58 AM

I'd like to know which Alex is returning -- the original Alex or the imposter from the S2 finale. If the original Alex is back maybe she'll lure Sara into believing they can be friends so she can involve her in some scam involving stolen loot from Sara's insurance company (perhaps the Raphael) and Sara will wind up getting carted off to prison while Alex makes off with the loot. Or maybe she'll simply shove Sara off the balcony -- either way it works for me.

I'll be skipping the Sara/pony/ballerina/lost sister story -- sounds like something designed to attract the pre-teen demographic. HB seems incapable of "tender" or "sharing" -- or "romance" for that matter (pre-teen or adult) -- so it will be poor Matt out there all by himself trying to sell it.

Edited by nicodelaney, May 15, 2012 @ 1:57 PM.

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#9006

Big Bad Wolf

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Posted May 15, 2012 @ 12:33 PM

I'd like to know which Alex is returning -- the original Alex or the imposter from the S2 finale. If the original Alex is back maybe she'll lure Sara into believing they can be friends so she can involve her in some scam involving stolen loot from Sara's insurance company (perhaps the Raphael) and Sara will wind up getting carted off to prison while Alex makes off with the loot. Or maybe she'll simply shove Sara off the balcony -- either way it works for me.

LOL! But seriously, much as I love Original!Alex and Gloria (who seems like a sweetie), I am extremely nervous about Alex's return. It'll be okay as long as it's in an episode with No Sara, but I have less than zero desire to see them in an episode together again where Alex's soppy twin is forced to give Neal and Sara her blessing, and to urge Neal to get it on with another woman when she obviously has feelings for him herself. Enough Alex character assassination already, Eastin, TYVM.
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#9007

Sakura12

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Posted May 15, 2012 @ 12:48 PM

I choose to take Alex praising Sara to be her saying you'd rather have that skinny twig with a multiple personality disorder over me? Fine, good luck with that.

If Neal sees her as a convenience then she deserves better. Maybe she can come back dating that British con man from "Stealing Home".
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#9008

nicodelaney

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Posted May 15, 2012 @ 2:42 PM

It'll be okay as long as it's in an episode with No Sara


I've always assumed the next logical step for imposter Alex would be to return in time to help Elizabeth plan Neal and Sara's engagement party. Of course, I also imagine imposter Alex as having devoted herself to missionary work to atone for the original Alex's crimes and naughty lifestyle, so maybe she won't have time for frivolous things like parties. Perhaps she'll play the role of the "angel" who comes to lead Sara to her lost sister. That episode is really shaping up to be, as Peter reminds us, "a regular after-school special".

On the other hand, I've had this idea that sister got lost on purpose in order to escape her evil sister. I'll bet Sara had one of those baton/nightstick/billyclubs even then and used it to torment her entire family. Didn't she say that her parents are dead? Sister may be trying to avoid the same fate.

Edited by nicodelaney, May 15, 2012 @ 2:45 PM.

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#9009

nyrose

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Posted May 16, 2012 @ 10:18 AM

Spoiler


It still amazes me that Jeff Eastin is so loyal to the Hilarie Burton Fans, that he can't see what so many viewers have seen from mid season 2 and try to tell him..

I've been reading some of the new discussions around the web.. seems like HB/Sara fans "SEE" so much more depth to the Sara/Neal relationship than has ever been SHOWN.. and that is exactly what bothers me about this forced storyline/character. If a lesser known actress played this part she would have been gone at the end of S2.

Just venting a bit.. I know it's old now and all has been said. Anyway, I am still hopeful that things will get better. I do like the promo pics. Look forward to seeing Alex..hope they do at least give us Original Alex back!! After all we have waited quite a long time to see her again.

Edited by nyrose, May 16, 2012 @ 11:51 AM.

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#9010

nicodelaney

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Posted May 16, 2012 @ 2:21 PM

Even if Hilarie/Sara were to disappear (I can dream, can't I?), the show would still be a mess. Character development is still a huge problem -- actually it's more like character "distortion" or "demolition", but we must remember it's all in keeping with the writers' desire to make our characters unpredictable . . . and unrecognizable, I'm afraid.

And if the damage done to the characters is not enough, there are the plotholes, and the "filler" episodes and the cutesy attempts at situation comedy. Ah, well, I guess you can't fix all the problems at once -- still, Sara's untimely (or timely) demise would be a start in the right direction. And it would give my fast-forward button a rest.

I worry especially about the writers' attempts to explain Neal to us -- in the end what they wind up doing is to dumb him down, to make him less magical. I'm still working on that bit of news that 18-year-old Neal was headed for the police academy. Not that there's anything wrong with the police academy -- but perhaps he could have wanted to go to college first? Did he become a creative genius only after he ran away from home? Did this polymath not have any curiosity about the rest of the universe? Did he not imagine other possibilities? Every time they try to explain him to us, they make him less credible, less understandable -- and worst of all, less magical and mysterious. I want to see the magical Neal of S1. The present Neal seems a dud . . . a rocket that took off so spectacularly but fizzled and crashed back to earth.

Maybe they're just dumbing him down and making him a clone of Peter and taking away all the magic that was the original Neal so his romance with Sara will finally make some sense. God, what a woman -- a whole team of writers working night and day to drag Neal Caffrey down to her level.

Neal was going to be St. George slaying the dragon to save his Lady Kate. Instead we get the Dark Knight, Sir Jeff, sacrificing everything to defeat the White Knight, Sir Neal, in order to claim his holy grail, his idea of womanly perfection -- Lady Sara of the Knightsticks, who not only wins Sir Jeff, but winds up with the painting that represented Neal's dream of a life with Kate.

Sorry -- I seem to be hallucinating again . . . maybe I'm still on the Island of Lost Souls with the mad Doctor Victor Frankenstein Moreau.
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#9011

nyrose

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Posted May 18, 2012 @ 9:56 AM

Character development is still a huge problem -- actually it's more like character "distortion" or "demolition", but we must remember it's all in keeping with the writers' desire to make our characters unpredictable . . . and unrecognizable, I'm afraid.


And if the damage done to the characters is not enough, there are the plotholes, and the "filler" episodes and the cutesy attempts at situation comedy.


Agree nicodelaney. e.g. Elizabeth, in Neighborhood Watch, seemed like an alien from outer space at the end of that episode, Alex's uncharacteristic praise of Sara, and Neal's unreal behavior, at the infamous dinner party, in Under the Radar, did he declare undying love for Sara all of a sudden, due their lusty kiss in the archives?? He forget's all about Kate's killer, and the danger he just endured throughout the day??? Peter, on a horse in Burke's Seven, and the many faces of Sara, who will she be in the next episode...?

I watch Person of Interest and at first it seemed hard to get into, but only got better and better as the season went on, and I just loved the Season finale.. they have been developing their characters slowly and I find it very enjoyable.

Season 1 of White Collar felt like it was developing nicely, it wasn't perfect but kept you interested. I really wonder why they decided to change so much midstream in the next season, was it only because they were excited to bring on the Sara character, or since Alex wouldn't be back for S3 they rushed the storyline and acceptance of Sara. I had a hard time believing that they only wanted Hilarie for a 6 episode arc, the way they promoted her so quickly to regular and rushed her character acceptance in the cast.. All these questions...
I really need to get a life.. LOL

I guess we will have to see what Season 4 will be like.. hopefully, it will get more cohesive in the storytelling. I don't mind a stand alone episode now and again, but really hope they stay away from the cutesy sit-com style.

Edited by nyrose, May 18, 2012 @ 10:00 AM.

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#9012

Cgr

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Posted May 18, 2012 @ 10:33 AM

Do we know when the new season starts?
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#9013

nyrose

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Posted May 18, 2012 @ 10:53 AM

The new season starts on July 10th!
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#9014

nicodelaney

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Posted May 18, 2012 @ 4:01 PM

I really need to get a life.. LOL


I'm glad you can still laugh about this, nyrose. Maybe I've said those words too many times, too often in regards to my not-fatal-enough attraction for this show. For instance, I sat here for twenty minutes trying to think of what word to use -- attraction? obsession? addiction? fixation? love? hate? love/hate? insanity? There are more, of course, but you get the point. The question is -- why can't I get it? Never mind -- for now I'm going to do what my hero in that other show I loved so much (but for better reason), Sports Night, said when asked what he'd do if he lost his show:

Isaac: Two trees, a hammock, and a stack of books this high.


I know, we haven't exactly lost our show -- it only seems to be trying to lose us. July 10th -- I wonder how many books I can read by then? Maybe somewhere in that stack of books this high I'll find a story I love as much as I loved the pilot episode of White Collar. Maybe it will turn out to be the first in a multi-volume series. Maybe the author will understand what you said about Person of Interest, how the characters developed slowly, didn't change direction in midstream. Maybe.

Edited by nicodelaney, May 18, 2012 @ 4:03 PM.

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#9015

Cgr

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Posted May 18, 2012 @ 4:16 PM

Thanks nyrose.
I am anxious to see how it is this year. As are we all I guess.
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#9016

nyrose

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Posted May 19, 2012 @ 3:26 PM

I know, we haven't exactly lost our show -- it only seems to be trying to lose us.


That is what it seems to me at times..not only with but mostly concerning the rushed Sara character/storyline from S2.
I guess I would have never expected the reaction from the creator and writers to be to the fans who didn't like this character, and mid season change up to just change the channel?? Since I never knew the actress beforehand, to me it was all about the story and how she just wasn't likable and didn't fit in, but with a huge fanbase from HB's other program OTH, the Sara dislikers were basically told to take a hike..only to again add insult to injury by keeping the character and making her a regular on the show..

Criminal Minds and Hawaii 5-0 went through similar situations, with shout outs from fans that they didn't like a certain replacement actress or the intro of a new regular actress.. Both those shows powers that be, eventually said sayonara to them and pleased their fans once again.

Books, sound like a good idea and a hammock and a nice island vacation sounds like fun too.

TV shows come and go.. I am glad to have come upon WC from day one and it has me coming back for more still. Attraction probably is the correct word.. Matt Bomer and Tim DeKay have a lot to do with that for sure.:)

WOW: Just saw this: WHITE COLLAR LAW SUIT! Who Knew??
http://www.deadline....reator-lawsuit/

Update: saw on Twitter that Jeff Eastin and the the season one story editor Travis Romero are both satisfied with the settlement of this law suit. Good to hear.. I am a peacemaker at heart!!

Edited by nyrose, May 23, 2012 @ 9:12 AM.

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#9017

lianau

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Posted May 20, 2012 @ 7:36 PM

Criminal Minds and Hawaii 5-0 went through similar situations, with shout outs from fans that they didn't like a certain replacement actress or the intro of a new regular actress.. Both those shows powers that be, eventually said sayonara to them and pleased their fans once again.


In the case of Criminal Minds it was more network meddling than anything else. And at one point they came to their senses and tried to repair things . The problem with White Collar seems to be that nobody higher up the food chain cares enough to put a stop to Jeff Eastins weird Hilarie Burton worshipping.
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#9018

Common

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Posted May 20, 2012 @ 8:01 PM

The problem with White Collar seems to be that nobody higher up the food chain cares enough to put a stop to Jeff Eastins weird Hilarie Burton worshipping.


It's not Hilarie Burton who's the problem. It's the full-tilt commitment to the idiotic domesticated conman ideal.
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#9019

nyrose

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Posted May 20, 2012 @ 8:41 PM

It's not Hilarie Burton who's the problem. It's the full-tilt commitment to the idiotic domesticated conman ideal.

IMO I honestly think it is both!

I watched The Portrait the other day, and it was so much fun to watch Neal being Neal flirting with the lady who played Taryn(while still looking for his true love),stealing the portrait back for Julianna in the french girls hotel room and all under Peter's nose.,then pulling one over on the french guy and the guy from the Channing Museum.. Miss that guy!!

If they only introduced HB as the insurance investigator and she was out after her original 6 episode arc and didn't make her the love interest, and left Neal a bachelor for a lot longer, it would have been so different.

In the case of Criminal Minds it was more network meddling than anything else. And at one point they came to their senses and tried to repair things

.
Yes, and what a difference that made on the show. At least the fans were heard.. some actors can be added to shows mid-stream like Joe Mantegna in CM, but when the actor/actress isn't that good or completely upsets the dynamics of the show, like the actress that they replaced AJ Cook with, that is usually where the outcry comes from..

Edited by nyrose, Jun 8, 2012 @ 8:48 AM.

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#9020

nicodelaney

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Posted May 20, 2012 @ 10:44 PM

How can we force the writers to watch Sherlock on PBS? I'm not sure they'd get it -- maybe the writers for that series could explain it to them, if it's even possible to explain great writing and how to develop relationships that powerful in only 6 episodes. It's hard to think about this screwed-up show when you have something like that to compare it to -- sort of the same problem I had this year watching WC back-to-back with Justified. I just ordered the Sherlock DVDs -- maybe every time WC makes me want to spit I'll just pop one of the six Sherlock episodes in the machine and watch it instead -- somehow I think I'll never get tired of them. And they don't make me spit. Or use my fast-forward button to avoid one of the characters. Or injure myself falling into the plotholes.

And before you remind me that Sherlock brings with it a long history and tradition that would help the writers get a jump-start on their series -- let me remind you that in many ways there is a sort of Holmesian quality to WC (or was before the writers set out to destroy it). nyrose talked about it earlier when she reminded us of the Neal of S1. We seem to have fallen into a pit. Falling . . . falling . . . you know, in a way, Neal on that island is a bit like Sherlock at the end of tonight's episode -- perhaps it's a chance for a new start -- a return to what we loved. Oh, my God, I'm starting to sound hopeful again. And I know better -- I do. Really.
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#9021

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Posted May 24, 2012 @ 2:33 AM

the original Alex or the imposter from the S2 finale.


Which is the original Alex? Because, honestly I wasn't a big fan of hers, she had a lot of potential but she IMO came off as a very cliche femme fatale/spy/female thief. I always like early season two Alex, which I guess what just a more detailed version of Season 1 Alex but there was a huge difference.

SIGH. Speaking of Alex reminds me of what (IMO) the writers should have done with the character. Though I didn't love her I likes Alex as a longer term love possibility, because her feelings for Neal do run deeper than his for her. Neal is the more important character, and since he's a main character we can see the changes in his interactions with Alex, we can watch how his feelings change. We can still have Alex off screen so that we don't need to see the changes that she goes through. Sometime with main female characters on show we see that she likes a man more than he her, but we also often have shows in which the main female character has a male character who is far more into her than she is him, for some reason I've rarely seen a situation in which the main character (a male) has a female admirer who isn't a regular character etc. But anyway, I think seeing Neal change over time, and naturally with respect to a female who isn't on screen all the time would be beneficial. Then Neal can still be Neal, flirt, have affairs and the female character he falls for won't be destroyed by the writers. Who that female character is can somewhat be left to our imaginations (which would be great since I think the writers are horrible when dealing with females). And a major reason I like Alex for Neal is because I like the idea that Alex likes Neal the con. I don't want Neal to become a "good guy," at best I want him to become a private detective that does shady things, and will still occasionally do what he wants when he wants to regardless of the law. That's something Alex would be able to participate in, not because she's sacrificing something to be with Neal but because that's who she is. If both characters come to a center point organically, there would be no settling in that relationship, you know what I mean? I hate the canonical version of Kate, because for some reason I always pictured the Kate-Neal relationship as the opposite; I'd assumed that Kate and her father had brought Neal into the business (why else would Kate's father's grave have been important?) so I assumed that because of that Neal may have felt unworthy of Kate. But I guess he felt that way because he brought her into his lifestyle? Either way, there was a power play, either Kate would have to be untrue to herself, or Neal to himself. And I feel the same way about Neal's relationship with Sara(h), no matter how many times the show tells me that Neal wants to be 100% legit, whatever fecal matter they write about him and his father and how he had no choice I don't think I can believe it. Maybe that's true of post season 2.5-ish Neal, but not the Neal who brought me into the show. But anyway, there's an equality to Neal and Alex that his other pairings IMO are lacking, as well as an understanding between them not seen in Neal's other pairings. It's not that I'm I'd want Alex to not be a con, just like I never want Neal to not be a full con again to be honest (though I do want him to embrace that side once in a while). I assume that Alex might see the lifestyle different after finding the Nazi treasure, she might still want the "highs" but wouldn't mind getting them in different ways (like hanging off a cliff, while photographing a spouse having an affair), I 'd just have preferred for Neal's perception of Alex to change. When he sees her next for him to interact with her differently because of what has happened between the season 2 finale and the episode in which they reconnect, and would like his interaction with her to affect him over subsequent episodes -not in a heavy handed manner, I don't need Neal or anyone else to mention Alex- but in a way that it's mostly clear to the audience that Neal's changed and he's been affected by someone who he has ignored for so long, and each time they meet up for Neal to notice the change in Alex and Alex in Neal. I could have easily seen them grow together, while apart: as they get older, as they lose their stamina more easily etc etc.

Edited by natyanayaki, May 24, 2012 @ 2:39 AM.

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#9022

Sakura12

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Posted May 24, 2012 @ 8:57 AM

I'd like to see that scenario for the end of the series. Neal finally gets rid of his leash, leaves and they show a few years later and Neal, Alex and Mozzie are running a private investigation business with an occasional heist to keep the day interesting.

Edited by Sakura12, May 25, 2012 @ 9:10 AM.

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#9023

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Posted May 25, 2012 @ 4:17 AM

I enjoyed reading your entries about Alex, natyanayaki and Sakura12. I get amazed sometimes at how these characters have touched us and fired our imaginations in so many different directions, how passionately we write of them, defend them, want so much for them -- how quickly and deeply we respond when the characters are taken in directions that we sense are somehow wrong for them -- un-characteristic.

We had such hopes, such expectations -- we found this magical place, these terrific characters -- we knew them, loved them, wanted so much for them -- for ourselves. And it's hard to let go of that -- believe me, I know -- even when all the signs say you're not going to get what you want. The question is -- will what you are going to get instead be enough to keep you coming back for more?

I'm almost dreading the return of Alex. Much as I like her, I feel as though the character has gone out of focus, has been made to do or say things that aren't possible from the Alex I once knew.

These writers have a tendency toward fairy tale -- Alex's grandfather giving her the key that sets her off on her quest, Sara's lost sister, the musicbox, the lost treasure, Neal's determination to find his lost love -- but they never quite get it right. They always manage to spoil the beauty of their fantasy -- and too often this comes as an attempt to cover for a story gone wrong, a casting decision that didn't work out, a desperate move to make up for the fact that they don't think these scenarios out well enough from the start. To explain some of the mystery of the first season -- they gave us Forging Bonds which only confused us and destroyed some of the magic of Neal/Kate and Neal himself. Then, to explain the musicbox mystery they give us the U-Boat and Adler and Alex's grandfather, which was a patched-together-with-bubblegum-and-ducttape sort of explanation for something that deserved a better ending, considering how much of the show's capital they'd invested in it. They tried to distract us from the lameness of their story by throwing in something even more incongruous -- the great romance between Sara and Neal -- but that very un-romantic, clunky, forced relationship only made things worse.

So, I really can't imagine what they're going to do with Alex -- what they're going to use her for this time, what else they're going to ask us to believe about her, what contortionist tricks the actress is going to have to use to make Alex say and do things the other versions of Alex would never have said or done.

Edited by nicodelaney, May 25, 2012 @ 12:12 PM.

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#9024

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Posted May 25, 2012 @ 9:10 AM

I'm kind of dreading Alex's return too, I can just hope that Sara's not in or mentioned in the episode to ruin more of it.
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#9025

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Posted May 25, 2012 @ 12:09 PM

And a major reason I like Alex for Neal is because I like the idea that Alex likes Neal the con. I don't want Neal to become a "good guy," at best I want him to become a private detective that does shady things, and will still occasionally do what he wants when he wants to regardless of the law. That's something Alex would be able to participate in, not because she's sacrificing something to be with Neal but because that's who she is.


there's an equality to Neal and Alex that his other pairings IMO are lacking, as well as an understanding between them not seen in Neal's other pairings.

Agree, natyanayaki They set up the story of the two of them so beautifully in S1, with all the double meanings. How often they made reference to each other that "that's who we are", or "that's what we do", as they finished each other's sentences..They are so natural together. Alex never overpowered the story..She could be offscreen and he could continue the flirty thing.. I like that she has deeper feelings for him too and I would love to see him discover that as the story goes on. Just like the look he had after the Under the Radar Kiss, and the way he looked at her as she said goodbye with the fantasy treasure line.


I'd like to see that scenario for the end of the series. Neal finally gets rid of his leash, leaves and they show a few years later and Neal, Alex and Mozzie are running a private investigation business with an occasional heist to keep the day interesting.

Love it Sakura12 This sounds a little like Leverage. That would be fun.. spin-off anyone?? LOL

I get amazed sometimes at how these characters have touched us and fired our imaginations in so many different directions, how passionately we write of them, defend them, want so much for them -- how quickly and deeply we respond when the characters are taken in directions that we sense are somehow wrong for them -- un-characteristic.

SO TRUE, nicodelaney..

The TAKE-OVER of S2.5 onward really brought out some major changes we would have never wanted for our characters in our White Collar World, I believe that the majority of us who watched faithfully from week to week from S1, really felt the change-up deeply.

Those who only started watching when a favorite actress guest starred or they began the show in S3 only to catch up in Netflix with S1 and S2 wouldn't be affected the same way.

It was like they were giving us a new show now and we weren't ready for the old show to be over, too many questions, characters unfamiliar all of a sudden...

Glad I didn't watch these episodes all in order on dvd or streaming.. it was the weekly build up and suspense that makes a show enjoyable for me.

We await what Season 4 will bring.. i do hope they do the right thing with Alex's episode, and look forward to how they bring back Neal and Mozzie in the early episodes...

Edited by nyrose, May 25, 2012 @ 1:59 PM.

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#9026

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Posted May 25, 2012 @ 1:18 PM

I believe that the majority of us who watched faithfully from week to week from S1, really felt the change-up deeply.


This is why it rankles when Eastin and others dismiss our concerns and tell us to watch something else. "Faithful" fans who feel changes "deeply" and who speak out about them are a liability. That seems wrong to me, but maybe it's just the way things are these days. Keep things light and breezy -- don't get too invested in a show or in its characters. Change is good -- unpredictable is best. Neal (I'm not sure which version, but one of the S2 Neals) said it best when he announced he'd moved on in regards to Kate. In the very next episode he was groping what's-her-name in the archives. Moving on rather swiftly it seemed. Maybe he was just trying to send us a message: We told you to move on -- if you can't keep up, if you don't like this, maybe it's time to change channels.

Edited by nicodelaney, May 25, 2012 @ 2:16 PM.

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#9027

nyrose

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Posted May 25, 2012 @ 2:23 PM

This is why it rankles when Eastin and others dismiss our concerns and tell us to watch something else. "Faithful" fans who feel changes "deeply" and who speak out about them are a liability. That seems wrong to me, but maybe it's just the way things are these days. Keep things light and breezy -- don't get too invested in a show or in its characters. Change is good -- unpredictable is best. Neal (I'm not sure which version, but one of the S2 Neals) said it best when he announced he'd moved on in regards to Kate. In the very next episode he was groping what's-her-name in the archives. Moving on rather swiftly it seemed. Maybe he was just trying to send us a message -- we told you to move on -- if you can't keep up, if you don't like this, maybe it's time to change channels.


Great way to put it nicodelaney. That probably is how they see it.
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#9028

nicodelaney

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Posted May 27, 2012 @ 5:55 AM

GQ has published a list of "new rules" for watching TV. Number Four got my attention:

Do Not Waste Time on Shows That Are Just Good Enough


http://www.gq.com/en...s-of-tv#slide=1

Of course, sometimes I wonder if WC rises to the level of "just good enough."


There's an expression I hate -- mostly because I hear it way too often: It is what it is. But I think maybe it's an appropriate phrase for White Collar.

Sometimes I give up on a show because the characters never change, never learn -- no matter what happens to them, in the next episode we revert back to things as they were. But do people change? Maybe those shows are just realistic.

Then there are other series where they change too much and the show becomes something so at odds with what we started with that it is difficult to accept. I've started watching several series over the last 10 years or so that seemed to me to be one thing but then morphed into something else -- I usually give up on those rather quickly, but this one is hard. I love Peter and Neal, I like the basic premise, I've always been drawn to shows filmed in NYC, and I liked Elizabeth, June, Diana, Jones, and Mozzie. The show is very compelling to me. I feel at home watching this show -- I'm always so glad to see the characters, to be at the Burkes' house or Neal's apartment. So even though I see that White Collar is never going to be what I'd hoped, it's hard to leave such dear old friends, even if they sometimes do or say things that don't make much sense to me, even if the show has gone in a direction I hadn't anticipated.

People who love a show love it for different reasons -- they respond to it according to their own needs, their experiences, their tastes -- it's like a prism in a way. We all have such different feelings about it, want different things from it. And, as nyrose says, we came to it at different points in its development, viewed it all at once or week-to-week. And at the various places where people meet to discuss the show -- like this one -- we get exposed to different opinions, see into how other people view the show -- and that may influence us to see it differently.

I know many of the fans -- most of them -- think the show is doing just fine, and they love Sara and the changes we've seen in Neal -- and they love WC passionately the way it is now, instead of how it was earlier -- or perhaps they see no substantial difference between the two. There are so many ways to look at this -- that prism, remember? -- the light refracted into so many colors, so many points of view.

"Just good enough" -- I've thought a lot about Rule Four. But maybe in the end it doesn't really matter. It seemed to matter, but what was it my mother said to me back when I was a little kid? Honey, it's just a TV show -- don't get so upset about it. I'm still working on that, Mom.
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#9029

Cgr

Cgr

    Fanatic

Posted May 27, 2012 @ 8:21 AM

This is why it rankles when Eastin and others dismiss our concerns and tell us to watch something else


HE wants to be out of a job? Come on now that is like telling the store customers that if I don't carry it go elsewhere. He is in the business of attracting an audience so he can sell commercial time. Not exactly the way to do it!
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#9030

skylarkfreedom

skylarkfreedom

    Video Archivist

Posted May 27, 2012 @ 4:04 PM

I'm new to the show, and new to this thread, but I have to say that even inhaling the show through Netflix and iTunes there are still moments where the character shifts were jarring.

My personal moment of "huh?" was when it was revealed that Neal got caught because of Kate. I just felt it made both Neal and Peter look dumb. Neal because he took no precautions whatsoever. This is the person who had been writing codes into everything and even when he was looking for Kate when he thought she was in danger he was at least being somewhat cautious. Peter because he had been portrayed as the person who knew Neal best, was smart enough to catch him and it all boiled down to "he likes this girl, we should monitor her".

It had probably been happening before this, but afterward character's reactions seemed off to me. Peter was the particular bane of my existence because it felt like he kept resetting in regard to how he reacted to Neal. If he knows him so well, he should know better how to handle him. I thought the power dynamic between them was weird in that it never seemed to evolve naturally.

I'm sort of indifferent to Sara, if only because TV seems to love giving characters love interests whether it makes sense tonally or not.
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