235 replies to this topic

[TWoP Mars]

From TVGuide.com:

The first-season finale includes an appearance by the much-discussed, but never seen, Massive Dynamics founder, William Bell (Leonard Nimoy), the return of David Robert Jones and a mysterious vanishing act by Walter.

[Snark Shark]

Mixed reaction.

The bulk of the episode was FAR weaker than last week's awesomeness.

But it was ALL worth it for that last shot.

[AimingforYoko]

A hearty kudos to those who called Peter being from an alternate universe way back when. Kinda freaky at the end with the Twin Towers.

[shootingstar]

But it was ALL worth it for that last shot.

OMG OMG Yes!

It was freaky when the people appeared and disappeared in the elevator.

So what did that Obama headline say? More later...

Edited by shootingstar, May 12, 2009 @ 9:03 PM.

[Snark Shark]

That Spock. He sure gets around Multiple Realities these days!

[Fabrisse]

We've been renewed!

The Towers just floored me. I got a lump in my throat.

And even though I was expecting it, seeing Peter's name on the grave gave me a chill.

Sorry we've lost David Robert Jones, but I think it's better than trying to track him through worlds.

Did Walter find/create the first thin spot?

So what did that Obama headline say?

"Obamas move in to New White House" which implies that one or more of the DC attacks succeeded but there was either no attack on the twin towers or that attack was defeated.

Edited by Fabrisse, May 12, 2009 @ 9:04 PM.

[FryingPan]

Headline: Obamas move into New White House

[Kit Kat]

I'm glad the Peter reveal wasn't the last twist. I think everyone has been seeing that one coming for a while. Still cool though.

So Olivia is in a world where the towers didn't fall. Awesome. I doubt this is the world she visited last week.

On a shallow note: Charlie, I love you, but you look stupid in that hat.

Headline: Obamas move into New White House

Which means: A) This isn't the reality that will be attacking the main reality, since the reality that will be attacking his ahead, not behind, or B) The main reality is going to be the attacker.

Oh! New White House! Nevermind then.

Edited by Kit Kat, May 12, 2009 @ 9:05 PM.

[AimeeRose]

Well the last shot definitely blew my mind.

However, I was looking for more William Bell (and thereby Leonard Nimoy) involvement. Hopefully next season, which I am so glad they got!

[ReadIshmael]

It was nice to see Jones again, but I'm bummed they didn't explain the hole in the wall of his hospital room. Still, he was appropriately fucked up, and his death was very cool.

Still loving all the alternate universe stuff. The mythology on this show got so cool, and involves the characters directly in a surprising and compelling way.

I'm going to miss this show over the summer.

Edited by ReadIshmael, May 12, 2009 @ 9:07 PM.

[Snark Shark]

Headline: Obamas move into New White House

Emphasis, I think, on "New White House".

And not "new White House" as in "new administration". They definitely mean a new building. Says to me that something happened to the OLD one.

I'm glad the Peter reveal wasn't the last twist.

Amen. His twist was obvious to those paying attention. But the WTC? That was a real visceral moment. They chose right.

[Konfusion]

Holy imploding brain cells, that ending was killer.

[the fresh maker]

Most stunning reveal? The towers are still standing on the other side. I was wondering where they were going with that pan out, and I thought maybe NYC wasn't going to be as populated. The towers was even better.

And Peter is Alternate Peter! I figured that was Original Peter's grave when the Observer found Walter, and when Walter brought up Peter's illness again, I was sure. But when did Peter die? There was the accident at (I'm assuming) Reiden Lake, when Walter met the Observer. And there was Peter's illness. So I guess he died naturally and not in the accident. What about the other Walter? Is he a scientist? Would he look for retribution because his son was stolen? Would he try to get his son back? They have to explore this!

I'm kind of sad we lost Jones so soon, especially since we didn't find out how teleportation was changing him. I guess we'll find out more about its effects the more Olivia (and possibly others) crossover. I guess the writers felt Jones's story was over with because his endgame was killing Belly.

Interesting that the Observer wanted to keep Jones from Bell. What greater ramification would Bell's death have had, considering all of the destruction the Observer didn't stop?

Frantic, unhappy Walter makes me unhappy.

More of Charlie in hats, please. More of Astrid, too.

So many questions for where this is headed now. It's going to be a long summer!

[tze]

So if the Twin Towers are still standing in Alternaverse, maybe the carnage we saw last week was Alternaverse's answer to 9/11? Boston was attacked rather than New York?

My question is this: so it seems that our universe's Peter Bishop died. Walter opened a hole in reality and stole another universe's Peter. So...do we think that Alternaverse's Walter Bishop just stood by and did nothing when his son was kidnapped???

[Snark Shark]

Holy imploding brain cells, that ending was killer.

Bam! There went 25% of their effects budget. But it was worth it. It looked COMPLETELY realistic.

[GreenPhoenix]

I doubt this is the world she visited last week.

I'm guessing that, too. Olivia was alone when in the elevator right before she left her home world and alone when she stepped off the elevator. She must have traversed yet another reality, which I suppose would explain all those people.

The Bishop dynamic just became so much more interesting to me. I figured that the speculation about Peter's death was true after the spoiler regarding the grave, but that was still a great scene. I'm sure that Walter has been loving both Peters as much as he can, but does he consider them different? It's intriguing. I also liked that when Peter arrived at the beach house and picked up the family portrait, it was Walter's face that he cleared.

[Kit Kat]

So if the Twin Towers are still standing in Alternaverse, maybe the carnage we saw last week was Alternaverse's answer to 9/11? Boston was attacked rather than New York?

But that would mean in nearly 10 years Boston still hasn't recovered, and has gotten worse. My theory is that last week Olivia was in some kind of hellish alternate universe, and this week she was in a slightly better one. The towers didn't fall, but the white house was attacked, which wouldn't be as horrifying.

Edited by Kit Kat, May 12, 2009 @ 9:14 PM.

[Ben]

That was a cool last shot. So New York wasn't attacked. Washington apparently was. Boston? That depends last week's vision was of the world where Bell is.

I had heard and sort of agreed with rumors that Peter would turn out to be from a different universe. So that part wasn't so much of a surprise. It was nicely done, though. The talk they were having about pancakes in the beach house seems to demonstrate that there is a deep emotional connection between the two. Did that form after the trip, or did it sort of carry over. And how about Mrs Bishop? I have to wonder if she learned what was up, and if that's why she's not in either one of their lives.

Also noticed relative lack of gore this episode. Even Jones turning into half of Jones was fairly clean.

[the fresh maker]

"Obamas move in to New White House" which implies that one or more of the DC attacks succeeded but there was either no attack on the twin towers or that attack was defeated.

I'm liking the idea that very similar events are happening with different results. There was an attack, but it was in DC, not New York.

There was a nice touch of symbolism when Peter and Walter were talking in shadows in the house. The right half of Peter's face was covered, and the left side of Walter's face was covered.

Oh, and all of Broyles' and Nina's looks at each other whenever Olivia asked a question or made an observation were kind of funny.

"We're here to save the universe! What are you doing?"

[cyberpumpkin]

Wow, that was made of awesome!

Loved Walter saying he and Belly did a lot of LSD back in the day.

So he did pull "alternate" Peter (apparently at age 7) from the other universe into this one. Would that have been after the childhood illness or the car crash into the frozen pond?

Do the rest of you think we are going to just deal with two universes? The one we are familiar with and the single "alternate" where the Twin Towers are still standing? I think the storytelling might get too confusing to follow if they go with more than that.

Is the Observer just kind of a neutral guardian, who watches over the "portal"?

I too am so thrilled that we get a fall season!

[Fabrisse]

There was an attack, but it was in DC, not New York.

DC was attacked in this universe (assuming Olivia's matches ours). My parents lost people they knew in the Pentagon attack. Those people over Pennsylvania on Flight 93 saved DC from worse.

However, either New York was not attacked at all in the alternate or the New York attack was defeated.

I think the multiverse reveal only works if there are more than the one. However, I think they'll be very clear about delineating them either by filters, markers like Charlie's scar last week, or landmarks.

Edited by Fabrisse, May 12, 2009 @ 9:20 PM.

[Snark Shark]

I doubt this is the world she visited last week.

So New York wasn't attacked. Washington apparently was. Boston? That depends last week's vision was of the world where Bell is.

I'm still thinking 2 realities is enough for this show.

I think the sequence for that world could be:

9/11/2001 - A terrorist plane takes out the White House (Flight 93?). The other plane may or may not have still hit the Pentagon. NY is spared for some reason or other. Bush probably dies and Cheney is President.

Later - Cheney is Pres, but Obama still wins the 2008 election. Boston is under attack in the current timeframe because Cheney's war on Terror has been even less effective than Bushie's. Or maybe it has something to do with Massive Dynamics presence in that world--maybe they are even more important there (they bought off Cheney).

Edited by Snark Shark, May 12, 2009 @ 9:24 PM.

[Kit Kat]

9/11/2001 - A terrorist plane takes out the White House. Another may or may not have hit the Pentagon. NY is spared for some reason or other. Bush probably dies and Cheney is President.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the white house evacuated on 9/11? The president wasn't even in the white house, right? He was at that camp, so he would've survived.

Boston is under attack in the current timeframe because Cheney's war on Terror has been even less effective than Bushie's. Or maybe it has something to do with Massive Dynamics presence in that world--maybe they are even more important there (they bought off Cheney).

It seems kind of odd that Boston was a complete hellhole, but New York looked really peaceful.

I'm still thinking 2 realities is enough for this show.

I agree. But we might not ever see last week's reality again. And even if there are other realities, they could be on the sidelines while the two main one's duke it out.

Edited by Kit Kat, May 12, 2009 @ 9:26 PM.

[the fresh maker]

DC was attacked in this universe (assuming Olivia's matches ours). My parents lost people they knew in the Pentagon attack. Those people over Pennsylvania on Flight 93 saved DC from worse.

I misspoke, Fabrisse. I didn't mean to imply that DC wasn't attacked on 9/11. What I did not make clear was that DC seemed to be more of the focal point of the attack in the other universe (or as you suggest, NYC was spared by a Flight 93 scenario).

[lilith1930]

Giving Peter an actual tombstone/burial seems kinda traceable, ya know? Like it's something that could easily come up in a department of records search, unless he picked a cemetery and just snuck the tombstone and buried the body under cover of darkness.

Pretty good finale. Still not my favorite show, still surprised it's such a big hit, but I'll be back next season.

[cyberpumpkin]

Did Walter find/create the first thin spot?

I'm not sure if Walter helped find the spots. Nina said that there were always a few that were naturally occurring (she mentioned the Bermuda Triangle) but then said something about how our technology is causing more "soft spots". I didn't record the show, hopefully someone who did can dissect her explanation, and how it ties in with what Walter said.

[LonePirate]

Kit Kat:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the white house evacuated on 9/11? The president wasn't even in the white house, right? He was at that camp, so he would've survived.

Bush was in Florida reading to school children on the morning of 9/11.

Now that Olivia is in the alternate universe, I wonder if she will be allowed to return to her original universe. Will she want to track down herself or Walter in that universe so they can trade stories? The possibilities of this new slate are endless.

Walter's visit to Peter's grave was sad and very moving for those of us who were unspoiled. Of course when Peter couldn't remember the coin, it definitely set off plenty of alarms that there was something off about him.

It's definitely going to be a long summer waiting for this show to return in the autumn.

[Snark Shark]

What I did not make clear was that DC seemed to be more of the focal point of the attack in the other universe (or as you suggest, NYC was spared by a Flight 93 scenario).

The DC attacks, both the realized one and the unrealized one, were never going to take the number of lives of the NY one. It was more of a symbolic attack.

But this is all nitpicking I guess. The point is, obviously the major target we are familiar with survived and the one which was spared here wasn't there. That's probably all we need to know.

I agree. But we might not ever see last week's reality again.

Could be. It depends on what else happened on er... to borrow a DC Comicsism... Earth 2 (we're Earth 1 in this example). It seems possible that Grim N Gritty Boston is some Earth 3, but we don't know yet, I guess. We didn't really learn enough about Earth 2 to know for sure. All we have to go on now is the er... lighting. Earth 3 seemed badly lit! Earth 2 looked pretty sunny. But that could just be a director/effects supervisor choice.

Now that Olivia is in the alternate universe, I wonder if she will be allowed to return to her original universe.

Well, Belly seems to know exactly how to move people between universes. So I guess its all up to him.

Edited by Snark Shark, May 12, 2009 @ 9:33 PM.

[Kit Kat]

Bush was in Florida reading to school children on the morning of 9/11.

Ah, thought so. So in any universe, Bush survived 9/11.

The point is, obviously the major target we are familiar with survived and the one which was spared here wasn't there. That's probably all we need to know.

I liked the idea that the attack on New York was tried and defeated instead of never happening, and the attack on the White House carried through. It has a nice sort of balance to it. You can't completely save the day, but it can be better.

Of course, that means there's a universe where both New York and DC were successfully attacked. Let's not visit that one, okay?

[shootingstar]

Fabrisse and FryingPan, thanks for Obama headline info.

I have to say how much adore that Pancake scene with Peter and Walter. I love when we get glimpses into their past relationship and see Peter be vulnerable. And the little moment when Peter told Astrid "There boy was growing up." More of these please next seasons. More Peter and more Astrid brought into the storyline.

I do wonder how old Peter was when Walter made the pancakes. Peter died at seven. He didn't remember the coins. Does that mean that in the alternative world you may have a totally different life, personality, hobbies, etc. Or did the process of bringing him over wipe his memory?