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Speculation (Without Spoilers): Stranger Things Have Happened


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#1021

Hemojr

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Posted Feb 26, 2012 @ 9:53 PM

Here is my current theory, as buffeted and stirred by the revelations of the Winter finale:

There are an infinite number of possible futures. But those infinities are only in the future. As the singular point of arrow of time advances, reality collapses and only a single one of the infinite possibilities becomes the present reality. As the arrow moves, future possibilities still exist, but are narrowed to those based on the one present reality. The point of the arrow of time has reached 2012.

The Observers come from one of the possible futures derived from our present reality. And they have infiltrated their past to ensure that when the arrow of time gets to their time, the possibilities collapse into their reality. They are from a future possibility without baby Henry.

When September distracted Walternate, he did so on purpose. Otherwise Peter would have survived, grown up Red, married Fauxlivia and had baby Henry. As the arrow of time moved forward it would have collapsed to a reality where there was no possibility of the Observer's future. September's oversight was in failing to take into account that Walter was watching through the window from the Blue universe and failing to distract him simultaneously.

The Observers, now taking Walter into account, foresaw the destruction of the two universes. This would be a result of Walter trying to save Red Peter. September volunteered to to fix his own error. September's fix was to save Peter so Peter could save the two universes. And for Peter to use the machine - with its limited ability to manipulate possibilities, and end up erasing himself and Henry from the reality as it collapsed.

September's disposition for Peter is contradictory to the rest of the Observers - who actively want him gone. It may indicate that September could be an infiltrator from a slightly alternate Observer future where Peter and Olivia ended up together and had decedents who were important. Or simply that September has developed a deep affection for Peter, similar to what August developed for the girl he died to make important.

There is also a future where baby Henry had a continued existence. That future has also sent back agents to ensure that it become the reality when the arrow of time arrives. Those agents are John Mosley (character in The Arrival) and the beacon (also from The Arrival) They represent a future that the Observers thought eliminated. But since Peter came back, might baby Henry have enough of a potential to come back that there is a possible future resulting where he did?

We now know that the Observers are Human -- or at least have human DNA and gross anatomy. We also know that the Observers are disingenuous at every turn. They said that Peter never existed. Yet we know that is a lie, that he existed as a child. We see September say he didn't know what happened that let Peter come back, but we know that he was the one who failed to erase Peter.

We also know that September could see every possible future. Yet when September told Peter that he needed to go home to save Olivia, he left that ambiguous so that Peter had to guess what he meant. So if September knows the effect of every word he speaks, why the ambiguity? He tells Peter that Olivia is his fated love, but leaves it ambiguous as to which variant of Olivia he means.

In this way September sends Peter on a wild goose chase looking for an Olivia variant who existed in a possibility that was collapsed out of existence, an Olivia Peter could never find. Why September does this (other than to extend the story or fool the other Observers into thinking Peter and Olivia will never get together), is a mystery so far.

And could it be that the Observers are really the bad guys? We know that showrunners Pinkner and Wyman like to turn things upside down and re-contextualize aspects of their story a couple of times a season. Observers started out ominous and evil, but they were re-contextualized into good guys. And it is an easy prediction that they will be re-contextualized again, probably as bad guys. (And they may yet end up as good in the final wash.)

After all they are in the present to destroy all possible futures but their own. We know they are liars. We know that they have manipulated history to suit their goals. Are they really even human? Or are they simply wearing human meat suits fool us and blend in? What if they represent a future where humanity is defeated and machines/aliens or something else has taken over?

What if the future where Henry was born is one where things went right, humanity survived and prevailed? Wouldn't that mean that we are currently being encouraged to root for the wrong side?

#1022

Money Magnet

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Posted Feb 27, 2012 @ 1:01 PM

New interview with P&W makes me wonder if they just let something slip:

http://collider.com/...terview/147959/

What’s actually amazing is that, after a couple of years of living with these characters and writing these characters and talking about these characters, as we sit in the writers room and break episodes, it strikes you, every once in awhile, that you’re talking about a character that’s played by the same actor, who you’ve been talking about forever. We talk about a character dying, so you get emotional, and then you realize, “Oh, but wait, that actor is still on the show.”


Does this mean one of the alts is gonna die? Or are they just talking about alt-Broyles from last season?

#1023

DixieGirl

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Posted Feb 27, 2012 @ 1:21 PM

Or maybe that Chalie/Scarlie is coming back?

#1024

sleepingwalker

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Posted Feb 28, 2012 @ 11:25 PM

So it really seems like we have not explored how this all got started.
The universes seem very similar. We have seen few differences...Statue of Liberty, World Trade Center, Bell, airships etc.
It would seem that the universes were one not too long ago. Something happened to split them. The airship thing suggests some time in the early 20th century. The Machine was sent far back in time to when there was only one universe and it got duplicated like everything else when things split. I bet something split the universe that was caused by an Observer or something similar. The split is intolerable and will cause the universes to fail -- Walter just made it worse in his grabbing Peter. The issue is how to bring it all back together. The bridge probably does not solve the problem. Also why did the split happened at all? So I remain interested in unrevealed timeline where Walter builds the Machine and sends it back in time. Have we seen any hints of this?

The Observers' surprise at Peter's reappearance, the initial split, and Walter's Machine would seem to suggest that perhaps there are other trans-temporal critters at work. Observer Observers?

#1025

Links

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Posted Feb 29, 2012 @ 12:56 AM

sleepingwalker
I bet something split the universe that was caused by an Observer or something similar. The split is intolerable and will cause the universes to fail -- Walter just made it worse in his grabbing Peter.

Never thought of that.
Just what caused the so called "split" in the first place?
Or is calling it "split" all wrong?

Come to think of it..there is a kind of human arrogance at work here,
that the destruction of the Earth would be the most important event.

..and of great interest...perhaps to Walter,
is Pluto still considered a planet in the alt universe?

Edited by Links, Feb 29, 2012 @ 1:40 AM.


#1026

jophan

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Posted Feb 29, 2012 @ 7:43 AM

We know the split must go back to the early 19th century, at least, because President Andrew Jackson was unknown in the Redverse. We don't know anything more specific. One theory is that it was the temporal wormhole itself that caused the split, and that quantum entanglement kept the universes almost completely synchronized.

Edited by jophan, Feb 29, 2012 @ 6:50 PM.


#1027

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Posted Feb 29, 2012 @ 5:09 PM

I figured the split must have occurred shortly after sentient humans evolved and were able to make conscious choices...which was why the First People team had to bury the pieces of the machine back in time before humans developed.

#1028

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Posted Feb 29, 2012 @ 5:31 PM

(This might be the right place to put this...)

In each (most?) episode, there a easter egg related to the next episode; I almost never catch those. I think I might have caught the easter egg in "End of All Things": in this shot of Lincoln Lee there's a teddy bear. It just seemed so out of place. Now, I don't know what it means for next time, but it might be the easter egg.

#1029

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Posted Feb 29, 2012 @ 6:13 PM

So I have some if / thens that I'm wondering make sense written...

I believe this IS Peter's Olivia and Universe, and I think that if I look at what September says, Peter shouldn't 'go back' because wouldn't going back mean the Henry born to the 'wrong' Olivia existing again?

I got the impression Henry is meant to be but just not born to FauxLivia. Because of the original September mistake, the universes and destinies of all these people were altered and one of these was Henry being born.

If this isn't Peter's Olivia, and he 'goes home' to the previous BlueVerse to that Olivia, then logically there is a previous RedVerse that does indeed have an existing Henry born to Fauxlivia. He'd be going back to that too. Yet, this is a catalyst to a 'dangerous' or 'worrisome' future.

September says Peter has an opportunity to right this 'wrong' now that he is back in existence. He also says Peter and Olivia are destined / fated to be and have a shared future. Surely, he must stay in this new world then. This must be his Olivia. Going back wouldn't 'right' anything only further the altered destinies?

Yes, I'm likely trying to make it work, and for Peter to get his Olivia. And for Olivia to have her Peter... but I think there is some logic to that idea.

#1030

hey crazy

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Posted Feb 29, 2012 @ 6:26 PM

I figured the split must have occurred shortly after sentient humans evolved and were able to make conscious choices...which was why the First People team had to bury the pieces of the machine back in time before humans developed.


I thought "the First People" went back that far just because there was conveniently a wormhole that led to 250 million years ago or whatever.

I don't know if there's any special reason why the redverse and the blueverse are so closely linked. Based on what Walter has said about the multiverse, it seems that all of the infinite number of universes were once one, and that with each choice we make we are spawning new universes. Based on hints we've been given, the blue and red universes seem to have diverged around the nineteenth century--Andrew Jackson never became president over there--but they are still remarkably similar. How is it that all of these (main) characters have/had alternates on the other side, while others, like Ella, never existed? There are an infinite possible combinations of universes, of course, so how is the redverse so similar to the blueverse, and yet so different?

#1031

jophan

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Posted Feb 29, 2012 @ 7:13 PM

I thought "the First People" went back that far just because there was conveniently a wormhole that led to 250 million years ago or whatever.

Yeah, if there hadn't been, Walter would have had to invent one. He had tried time travel before. But your point holds, that there was no choice when to put the machine pieces, because the wormhole had one terminus in the past and couldn't be moved to another.

How is it that all of these (main) characters have/had alternates on the other side, while others, like Ella, never existed? There are an infinite possible combinations of universes, of course, so how is the redverse so similar to the blueverse, and yet so different?

Entanglement is the concept that would make them so similar. In an infinite multiverse, there would be a gradation of infinitesimal differences from one universe to the next, differences as small as a change in a single atom. This is the basis of the concept of an individual's doubles. But I figure the split, whenever it happened, left the two universes closely aligned. Somehow the brane is thinner, so that crossing between them is possible with less effort than crossing from either to any other universe (if they exist).

The differences may be a combination of random errors in the entanglement and a "butterfly effect" from some of those errors. Most likely, the rate at which differences accumulate has increased recently, with higher population density, social interaction and rapid technological progress. Some of them are direct results of the damage Walter caused, such as the giant insects and children never born because a parent was killed by a vortex or trapped in amber.

Edited by jophan, Feb 29, 2012 @ 7:16 PM.


#1032

sleepingwalker

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Posted Feb 29, 2012 @ 11:41 PM

I fear that I missed something. When did we hear of the wormhole explanation of how the Machine got sent back? I know that we heard that Walter built it and sent it back but I do not recall a specific description. It would be fun to see a little of that timeline.

It still feels like the two universes need merging. Perhaps its just my reading of Shakespeare that requires a restoration of balance!

I think the Observers are the Asgard. Very advanced but at the end of the line. They are going back to study how things started so that they can adjust things in the hope of making things come out a little better. Or perhaps September was just full of crap in what he said to Peter. Clearly showing him the no-longer-existing Henry was a manipulation. The fact that the O's were genuinely shocked to find Peter still around is interesting. I'm not sure yet what it means but its interesting.

I also do not buy that we are dealing with a multiverse situation where each choice splits the universe. SG1 played with that as did Greg Bear in his Eon books. Walter repeatedly viewed and then visited the same alternate universe over and over. I think that the split is strange and it is the cause of all sorts of weirdness. The weirdness has been balanced for a while with the bridge but I think the goal of the Machine was to prevent the split in the first place or at least close it. Peter likely used it in ways not intended. Clearly Walternate starting it up with no one inside was an unintended use.

I think red and blue unify eventually.

#1033

lojo5

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Posted Mar 1, 2012 @ 12:07 AM

Two universes cannot combine...look what happened pretty definitively in Westfield, and earlier in Walter's gold fish tank. Two similar masses cannot occupy the same space at a time, and a heck of a lot of energy is expended to cause this merger. The merged people go crazy, the merged buildings explode. I do not think the red and blue verse will combine.

#1034

CorwinOfAmber

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Posted Mar 1, 2012 @ 12:17 AM

I fear that I missed something. When did we hear of the wormhole explanation of how the Machine got sent back? I know that we heard that Walter built it and sent it back but I do not recall a specific description. It would be fun to see a little of that timeline.


Peter explained the Central Park Wormhole to Walter in The Day We Died. He said they'd spent months ambering it over, and it traveled back 250 million years.

Later on in the episode, Walter deduced that he must have sent the machine back in time using the wormhole.

#1035

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Posted Mar 1, 2012 @ 8:46 PM

I don't know where to put this, so I hope this is the right place.

I came across this LJ of a fringefan who put down her thoughts about 4.13 and 4.14, with regards to Peter's role in those two episodes and this season.

She really had some great things to say in her first big paragraph but there are also some great insights into Peter's character in the comments, that I think sum up the Peter character and his role in this series. A great read and I especially like what was said about season 4, "in that even when the story arc was more Peter-focused, the story telling was from Olivia's pov, for the most part. This season, they've jumped right into Peter being the narrator, which is why all this uncertainty is so effective on throwing us, the audience".



For anybody that is interested, the link is: http://rainer76.live....com/49068.html.

Edited by emilyschild, Mar 1, 2012 @ 8:47 PM.


#1036

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Posted Mar 1, 2012 @ 9:40 PM

I've read a lot of her fic and really emjoyed it, even if I wasn't necessarily into the particular relationships. I've always thought she was an excellent writer and quite a philosopher when it comes to Fringe.

I think she makes an excellent point that we are seeing S4 through Peter's POV... initially, we were lost, in a world where we didn't know anybody. Everything felt unsettled and uncomfortable....and imo what we've seen the last couple of episodes have been the fallout from S3 from Peter's pespective. As rainer76 said, we finally see how the Fauxlivia mess impacted Peter - he's afraid to trust his own instincts because he so desparately wants to pick the RIGHT Olivia.

Very interesting read - thanks Emily's Child!

#1037

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Posted Mar 2, 2012 @ 1:31 AM

I just came across it by accident, but I also enjoyed what her thoughts are about Peter. Most of what she said, is how I see Peter's role in the series. Glad you enjoyed reading it.

Edited by emilyschild, Mar 2, 2012 @ 6:58 AM.


#1038

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Posted Mar 2, 2012 @ 9:27 AM

Interesting article, thanks. I especially liked the idea that Season 4 puts Season 3 in a whole new perspective: all last season the fans (and Olivia) were screaming, "How could Peter have been duped so easily? How could he not have known?" but now, the audience is finally seeing things from his POV, and we can see just how easy it is to be duped--we're still not sure whether this Olivia is the "right" one.

#1039

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Posted Mar 2, 2012 @ 9:50 AM

all last season the fans (and Olivia) were screaming, "How could Peter have been duped so easily? How could he not have known?"


Wonder if they're screaming now because he's being cautious, lol!

I really like this change in perspective, too. it's exactly what the EPs told us was coming.

#1040

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Posted Mar 2, 2012 @ 10:20 AM

I was thinking about the things September was saying to Peter in "End of All Things" and am sort of reminded of what Jones said to Olivia about "...dangle a carrot for a horse...a mouse needs its cheese...every creature needs incentive to perform tasks." Doesn't the whole scene inside September's mind seem similar (but in a good way). September was dangling Olivia and Peter's future in front him and then said, "There is something I need for you to do for me." So, Peter's life has been manipulated because of September (regardless of cause) his whole life. He, too, is a sort of lab rat like Olivia. The incentive is each other but the task is what?

I do wonder too if Peter was a bit intimidated by how Olivia took control of her powers. Maybe he feels she does not need him as the old Olivia once did which I think it not true because every person grows and becomes stronger in a good relationship. Anyhoo, I was struck by the similarity to Jones' words of "incentive to perform tasks".

EDA: I forgot that this is probably what Walter did in "The Arrival" and maybe with the device that closes the portals! I guess September's carrot for Walter was saving Peter! Walter always made cryptic remarks like "Maybe this is about you Peter". Is a side effect of the capsule memory loss or manipulation?

Edited by JodyA, Mar 2, 2012 @ 10:55 AM.


#1041

CorwinOfAmber

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Posted Mar 2, 2012 @ 10:43 AM

September was dangling Olivia and Peter's future in front him and then said, "There is something I need for you to do for me."


Great insight there JodyA.

Huh, I just figured out you can highlight a word and hit ctrl-b to bold it in the editor.

#1042

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Posted Mar 2, 2012 @ 12:42 PM

Thanks, Corwin! :) I also just thought of something else. We keep seeing this small bubble object pop up in Fringe. I think we saw it during a conversation between Peter and Olivia at her apartment. It looks like a paperweight but its shape is like that of the bubble in the season 4 promo posters. We saw an example of a time bubble in this season too. We now have been told that time lines are like a palimpsest and can be written over. Another element is "Welcome to Westfield" where there is a confined area that was "wiped clean" when attempting to merge the two worlds. Then now we have "lab rat reference" as mentioned by DRJ as incentive to perform tasks. We've also heard the observers talking about an outcome "as it should be".

All of this sounds sort of like our characters may be in some sort of "time bubble" that seems an experiment. Not like a simulation but a real time bubble. What if there is nothing left of the two worlds but this intersected part where the bridge stabilizes the forces? What if September's mistake wiped out their existence of their world leaving only the 12 who are 'outside of time'. What if they are mixing and blending realities to achieve an outcome? Or in this case timelines?

A few times we have heard of a 'hum' like the Edina hum that disguises the people living inside its "bubble" from the real world. What episode was it that Walter was "humming" to the drone of transformer? Is Peter's machine creating this "bubble"? Or maybe did the Observers bring what's left of both of the worlds forward in time to restart life in the dead areas that had merged? I know this probably mostly isn't going to happen but that "bubble" and the incentive to do tasks just leaves me wondering.

#1043

fedorafadares

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Posted Mar 3, 2012 @ 3:16 PM

From the media thread, discussing photos from JWymans twitter pics:

One thing that struck me about the wall of news clippings:

Alongside the great disasters like the Titanic, SF earthquake, etc., there's a smaller clipping seeking info about the brutal murder of a woman. I tried to enlarge the photo to get more detail. I even wondered if the woman in the picture was someone we've seen before (another era's Olivia, perhaps?) but I couldn't glean any more info.

What would make that murder as significant as man walking on the moon?

#1044

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Posted Mar 3, 2012 @ 4:24 PM

What would make that murder as significant as man walking on the moon?


If it could foreshadow Olivia's death? Or be linked to Nina or either world?

I was wondering Meana's role in things. Could it be that Jones could be related to Nina in our world but she turned him away because of William Bell so he went to the Meana to help him with his ZFT agenda? If Jones' goal is the same, then I would think the rudiments of ZFT are as well.

#1045

lizw65

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Posted Mar 4, 2012 @ 10:30 AM

I also just thought of something else. We keep seeing this small bubble object pop up in Fringe..it looks like a paperweight but its shape is like that of the bubble in the season 4 promo posters...


We also saw something similar behind the Observers in their first scene in The End of All Things--looked like a geodesic dome, and I thought right away of the bubbles in the promos.

#1046

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Posted Mar 6, 2012 @ 1:08 PM

Ari tweeted,

The #Fringe Song Of The Day is "Creator" youtu.be/DJkWoAhSiZ4 Dedicated from David Robert Jones to the world(s) #HiatusMusic #Fringe


Hmm. Does this mean something important?

#1047

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Posted Mar 6, 2012 @ 3:50 PM

I think this is more of a question, and probably has been mentioned on the forum, but I was watching "Awake" and they mentioned a "mobius strip between realities". I did some looking as to what it was and found the name M.C. Escher who is an artist who does some work that looks like what Fringe has copied in some of their promo posters. Does this look familiar like this promo poster?

So, this is a clue to this season? I'm going to have to do so more reading on this guy. Interesting stuff! If you do a google image search, you can see similarities to other Fringe posters.

#1048

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Posted Mar 6, 2012 @ 4:27 PM

Actually, I'm surprised Escher hasn't been mentioned here before, as a lot of his work played heavily with perception, a recurring theme of the show. Also, according to Wikipedia, he based several of his works on something called the Penrose Triangle, an object referred to as "impossibility in its purest form". Connection maybe?

#1049

prodigalchicken

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Posted Mar 6, 2012 @ 4:38 PM

Oooh, very cool connection, JodyA. The thing about a mobius strip, from what I remember from high school. . .pre-Calculus?(lord, high school was so long ago) was that it was a connected loop that somehow didn't look connected. Ugh, I am not explaining it correctly. Let's see if I can find an image: http://www.cosmosmag...716_moebius.jpg

So, there are two surfaces, but it's all the same piece of paper. . .I can certainly see some Fringe connections there.

#1050

JodyA

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Posted Mar 6, 2012 @ 5:07 PM

I've read that the mobius strip is also associated with the infinity symbol which can be called a lemniscus ∞. Olivia's number, as I've read other places is 8.

ETA: Escher's illusions are called paradox illusions. Peter has been called a paradox or called himself that. We also keep hearing "That is impossible" from Lincoln. Peter has been told several times about having his mind ripped open (perception) which actually happened with the this episode, yet he is stuck in on his Olivia, his timeline...which reminds of Walter saying liking his lab so much. :)

Edited by JodyA, Mar 6, 2012 @ 5:34 PM.