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Daniel and Wilhelmina: Right Kind of Wrong


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#1

lynettefl

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Posted Mar 9, 2009 @ 9:44 AM

Shockingly, I am now a Daniel-Wilhelmina coupling fan!

I watched last week's episode, "Sugar Daddy", last night, and I was struck by the sexual tension and intense chemistry between Daniel and Wilhelmina. During several Season 3 episodes, I had noticed it, but I dismised it because of the characters' attachments to Molly and Connor, respectively. Now, Connor has disappeared, and Molly is dying so perhaps Daniel-Whilelmina could be in the cards.

Here are two fanmade videos that show some good scenes between the two:

Right Kind of Wrong

Can't Fight the Moonlight

Are there any other shippers here?

#2

WaltzinSpringTm

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Posted Mar 9, 2009 @ 1:02 PM

I've always had them on my list. I think Daniel works best with an edgy woman who has some maturity. It's really about the acting. I find Eric Mabius a little blurry and fuzzy as an actor, lacking that dynamic playboy-rich guy exterior tension playing against the inner nice guy. Basically, I think tempermentally he is completely miscast as Daniel (someone here saw him on the "L" word as a carpenter, lower key, folksy type which I think is better for him - off beat. Not conventional). Williams gives him an effective foil, helps "fix" his Daniel in that environment, and they do have great chemistry. Anytime the characters need to work together the synchronized rhythm, slight twinkle, and plain brains really makes them stand out. It's sexy. She mans him up.

He really connects with William too in the sort of way that when they have scenes, I don't feel that my favorite character (Willi) is lonely or not known. I always feel like Daniel actually gets her, even when the writing doesn't back it up. But boy has the writing backed it up this season! I love that even when they are adversarial, they're hanging out! They work to escape from their mistake-date - but take a walk together afterwards! They snark about having to front as humble media types, but both are icked out by the bus - Wilhemina just knows how to take over, while Daniel is wimpier. And they lunch together! They're friends now - whether they admit it or don't admit it. She asks him about his personal life, he asks her about hers, they don't cop to it but they get each other and like each other.

This would be ever so much better than a Betty/Daniel hook up. I think because America Ferrara is a little "fuzzy" and "blurry" too. She's great with the emotional and the warm, and the broader humor, but she doesn't have the precision and clarity of say, a Mark Urie (even though the characters serve different purposes). She worked with Henry because Gorham did for her what Williams does for Mabius - bring her into focus. Gorham was like pinging the tips of your fingers against a crystal glass - very clear and sharp, but also warm.

Anyhow, just love Willi and Daniel. She makes him a LOT less boring. And something about Mabius makes me think he sees Wilimena as a human being, not a stereotype rich witch or female drag queen. He accepts her and respects her and secretly likes her. I really get a kick out of how often they choose to be in each other's company.

Edited by WaltzinSpringTm, Mar 9, 2009 @ 1:08 PM.


#3

dandylion paws

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Posted Mar 10, 2009 @ 3:13 PM

You know, I've had my eye out for Danielmina ever since the Season 1 episode "Fey's Sleigh Ride," where Daniel and Wili admit that they'll have to work together and Wili says, "Are you as creeped out as I am?" and Daniel says, "Yep." If she'd asked the same question of me, I'd have given the same answer Daniel did: a resounding "YEP."

There's no denying that Vanessa Williams and Eric Mabius have great on-screen chemistry. I've always enjoyed seeing how these two are gradually starting to understand each other. I don't, however, necessarily translate that into, "They should hook up" for a number of reasons. While not too long ago, I would've considered a one-night stand between the two of them not at all OOC, I now feel that, circumstances being what they are, it is simply too damn squicky. Since the baby seems to indeed be Bradford's and Wili's instead of Stuart's and Christina's--and what reason could they really trump up to go through the trouble of a paternity test?--Danielmina has pretty much been ruled out for me. I can't with a clear conscience root to see Daniel bang the mother of his half-brother, not to mention his father's ex-fiance. Gag. Me. It's so much more refreshing to me to see a relationship like the one Daniel and Wili already have. They know where they stand with each other, they know that one would blackmail or stab the other in the back with very little convincing, and yet they have to work together and necessarily develop a grudging respect for each other since they've both found themselves in the same boat. They aren't demonizing each other and they're not panting over each other. It's a rarity on television, where bickering rivals seem to have to jump in the sack at some point.

Besides, if the show ever decides to reveal them as some forbidden love, "thin-line-between-love-and-hate" nonsense, I'm out. I don't see Wilhelmina shagging her son's half-brother or, aside from that, lowering herself to sleep with Daniel, whom she mostly considers a moron. And I really think Daniel's come too far in his personal growth to use Wili as a scratching post, even if he did overlook the incestuous implications. There's also the fact that he was front and center to witness Wili screaming at Bradford "DON'T YOU DIE!" and punching him in the chest after he had a heart attack. Daniel's dumb, but he's not that dumb. So if they go that route, I'm totally done.

#4

crescentNight

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Posted Mar 12, 2009 @ 5:56 AM

Yay, a Daniel/Wili thread! I tried to make one about a year ago but it was still too obscure to really take off, so I'm glad that they're getting more attention this season.

You know, I've had my eye out for Danielmina ever since the Season 1 episode "Fey's Sleigh Ride," where Daniel and Wili admit that they'll have to work together and Wili says, "Are you as creeped out as I am?" and Daniel says, "Yep." If she'd asked the same question of me, I'd have given the same answer Daniel did: a resounding "YEP."


Heh. I kinda sorta shipped them ever since Daniel put a reindeer hat on Wilhelmina's head back in season 1.

Besides, if the show ever decides to reveal them as some forbidden love, "thin-line-between-love-and-hate" nonsense, I'm out. I don't see Wilhelmina shagging her son's half-brother or, aside from that, lowering herself to sleep with Daniel, whom she mostly considers a moron. And I really think Daniel's come too far in his personal growth to use Wili as a scratching post, even if he did overlook the incestuous implications. There's also the fact that he was front and center to witness Wili screaming at Bradford "DON'T YOU DIE!" and punching him in the chest after he had a heart attack. Daniel's dumb, but he's not that dumb. So if they go that route, I'm totally done.


I'm not really sure how I feel about this. While there is the ever-present incestuous implication and the fact that Wili did try to ruin Daniel's family more than a couple of times, I think I would be fine with a romantic relationship between them. I don't want it to be endgame, but this is a telenovela, and scandal + mind-blowing hotness = good entertainment, at least for me.

Are there any other shippers here?


There's a Livejournal community out there if you guys want to check it out: Oysters & Pyromania

#5

WaltzinSpringTm

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Posted Mar 13, 2009 @ 12:10 PM

I don't see Wilhelmina shagging her son's half-brother or, aside from that, lowering herself to sleep with Daniel, whom she mostly considers a moron. And I really think Daniel's come too far in his personal growth to use Wili as a scratching post, even if he did overlook the incestuous implications. There's also the fact that he was front and center to witness Wili screaming at Bradford "DON'T YOU DIE!" and punching him in the chest after he had a heart attack. Daniel's dumb, but he's not that dumb. So if they go that route, I'm totally done.


Well, if they got together it would be because Wilhemina no longer considered Daniel a moron. I don't think she considers him a moron now, even though she enjoys pretending she does. The kind of friendship, one-upmanship, put down stuff they've developed can be very enjoyable for both people, and fun. Better than schmoopy. On this show people start out with one impression and grow in a different direction all the time. Wilhemina even said that Daniel taught her a lesson about living life to the fullest. Same token, I don't think that Daniel would use Wilhemina as a scratching post. If they got together it would be romantic, or at least because they became close friends despite themselves. Even now they are developing a closer rapport than they ever intended. It's out of necessity but it's really working and they have discovered new dimensions to their interaction.

As for the Bradford/baby stuff. It's a telenanova. Don't care. Wilhemina was just doing what (or who) she had to do at the time. And Bradford is now dead.

Daniel was plenty slutty in his day as well, several girls a night, if I recall. It's a soap, it's a wash.

P.S. - I thought of another reason I enjoy Daniel in the Wilhemina scenes. He can be completely himself. There's no role he's trying to live up to, no proving himself. There's nothing at stake in her personal opinion. He's a nice guy, but he's not trying to be nicer than he is ("I'm not touching that!"). He can show his snarky side, give his real opinion without being defensive about it - because there's no reason not to with Willi. She holds no power over him, but the upside to that is he doesn't have to role play around her, so the character has more range. Willi can't be seductive or power-tripping around Daniel and their essential conflicts are tired, so she doesn't bother to do much more than tell him the truth.

Edited by WaltzinSpringTm, Mar 13, 2009 @ 9:53 PM.


#6

dandylion paws

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Posted Mar 13, 2009 @ 10:46 PM

As for the Bradford/baby stuff. It's a telenanova. Don't care. Wilhemina was just doing what (or who) she had to do at the time. And Bradford is now dead.

Daniel was plenty slutty in his day as well, several girls a night, if I recall. It's a soap, it's a wash.


It's a telenovella, but there are some things I can't really suspend my disbelief for. It's based off a Spanish soap, but Wili didn't waltz in wearing a soccerball under her dress when she couldn't get pregnant with Bradford's child. (Although, one could use the "it's a soap and therefore a wash" argument for Betty dressing the way she does or Betty moving back home with her family to help pay the bills (both of which I buy because they are in-character), and yet, given the inside-out reaming this show gets for not being realistic or logical enough sometimes, I don't hear that many willing to take that viewpoint, LOL).

I can only speak for myself, but my argument is that, yes, they could go there with Daniel and Wili, but it would require quite a suspension of disbelief on my part to A) think that Daniel, as he is now, would go there to begin with and B) that he and Wili could have anything resembling a healthy relationship for any length of time. Yes, Daniel was quite slutty in his day. "Was" being the operative word. There's something refreshing to me personally about the idea that there is one gorgeous woman on the show that Daniel simply will not touch, out of respect, principle, or both. There's Betty, but she's not gorgeous in any conventional sense, she's not his cup of tea sexually as of yet, and she's his best friend already, and the fact that she couldn't be a temptation to Daniel doesn't make this point resonate with the Daniel/Betty dynamic as much as it does with the Daniel/Wili dynamic. His scenes with Wili are great, but, for the sake of Daniel's personal growth, I feel it would be a huge leap back to have him pounce on her. She's not what he wants; she's a self-described "career girl" and, when push comes to shove, would put her ambitions in front of her relationships in a heartbeat, just like she did with Connor, and she was deeply in love with him (although, to be fair, Connor was asking her to become a fugitive). Daniel, on the other hand, has evolved to become quite the opposite, always willing to put his family before his job. He was doing this even as far back as Season 1, always letting Alexis get the upper hand for the sake of their sibling bond, not his career. This kind of conflict of interest does not bode well for a relationship and would be fairly inconsistent and OOC, especially regarding Daniel and the place his path has lead him, with what we've seen so far. And I don't really see Wili doing a Grinch-y turnaround and her heart growing three sizes (okay, maybe one and a half) by the end of the series, maternal feelings aside. She wouldn't be Wili if she wasn't fighting for a place at the top of the heap, and when she gets there, she'll resort to sometimes villainous tactics to stay there. I suppose I'm saying that Daniel and Wili could both do better.

Besides, if I ever see a scene where Daniel has to take his half-brother William on his knee and explain that his mommy is now Daniel's "special friend," Ugly Betty will owe me a new television because I'll have upchucked on mine.

He can be himself around Wili, but no more so than with Betty or Molly, for that matter. Betty's seen him at his absolute drunken, slutty, sarcastic and/or woobie worst, and Betty will call him out on his crap just as fast as Wili and vice versa. The only difference is, Daniel doesn't give a tinker's fart about trying to be a better man for Wili's sake, as has been said. So I guess my point is that, while Daniel can be himself around Wili, he doesn't rely on her for any personal reason and vice versa, which is a nice touch. I guess at the end of the day, I'm seeing more of a "exasperated-yet-affectionate" vibe between the two that I quite enjoy, but not any roiling, red-hot UST. I haven't seen UST with a female character and Daniel since Sophia, actually. Now THAT was hot. Ah, well, guess it's all a matter of perceptions :)

Edited by dandylion paws, Mar 13, 2009 @ 11:01 PM.


#7

WaltzinSpringTm

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Posted Mar 14, 2009 @ 9:52 AM

Well, we're certainly going to agree to disagree dandylion paws because man did Sofia bore the ever living crap out of me. I think Salma Hayak is the worst actress on earth and has anti chemistry with Mabius (she is currently torturing me on 30 Rock and ruining Jack).

We just see it differently. I don't see the bond between Betty/Daniel as many do - it strains my credulity that they're even friends. I have Betty issues, and even when America Ferrara was a little less overbearing in the role, I saw zero chemistry with Mabius. I think there's probably a considerable split about it everywhere, similar to the split between us :) - among the audience and probably writers/producers as well. I also think Mabius isn't suited to the dynamic of the original Ugly Bettys where this frumpy type reformed this playboy and brought out his good side, because Mabius was never too convincing as a playboy. Oh, I know what I'm trying to say - I think HIS Daniel actually needs a character and an actress who can bring OUT his edge and his bad side, not soften it, because he's so damn bland. And Betty just reinforces the bland.

For me it's about what plays most naturally and believeably on screen, rather than a list of these are Daniel's traits and his history, here are the traits/history of his potential love interests. For me it makes sense that Daniel and Willi could end up running Mode together and happily involved. Mode means an enormous amount to Daniel, he prefers it even when he was running a magazine that seemed a better fit. Willi helps him actually run the thing because she's good at what the magazine does. And so I won't repeat myself, I think she makes Daniel more well-rounded. With Daniel/Betty, when he shows his bad or weak side, it's more shameful. Oh I screwed up, I fell into the pit, I need your help climbing out, what would I do without you. It's unattractive (to me) and icky. And dull, as played by Mabius.

With Willi it's more - well, he's a human being and there's no shame involved. He's okay as he is. A nice guy who has not nice sides, a rich dude who enjoys being rich, a guy who loves his family and a guy who also wants the magazine to kick ass and be a success. I don't like the whole "love of a good woman" arc too much. I don't see Molly reforming him - the focus in that relationship is her, not Daniel's improvement arc. I think Daniel and Willi are good for each other, and since writing/acting on these shows are synergistic, I think Williams and Mabius manage to create a bond that transcends the occasional cartoonish history, and the ties that bind the characters are just as strong as those that divide them.

#8

dandylion paws

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Posted Mar 17, 2009 @ 10:40 PM

Well, we're certainly going to agree to disagree dandylion paws


I can do that ;) (But did you see Salma in Frida? That was one of her better performances.) I do think that Daniel needs a fiery woman to balance out his...er...rather bland tendencies sometimes. I wouldn't have Daniel any other way, don't get me wrong, but Molly's about as laid-back as he is, so it's rather boring to watch. My favorite liason (or almost liason) of Daniel's was with Sandra (Marlo Thomas's cougar character), actually. They were so much fun to watch, and it harkens back to what you said upthread about Daniel working best with an older woman who has maturity and edge...I completely agree. He's adorable as cougar-bait ;D

In an alternate UB universe, present circumstances not being what they are, Wilhelmina and Daniel would be incredibly hot (I read Danielmina fanfic on the sly) and certainly entertaining and if perchance the writers could pull it off, I'm on board. But, while the writers do a great many things well, romantic entanglements aren't one of them, and I'd hate for either character to be compromised when a fruitful friendship would've done much better for Daniel, Wili, and the show as a whole. That's kind of my concern now regarding any potential romance on the show, Detty included.

Do I think they'll go there? Well, it's certainly been hinted at, that's for sure :P They have seen each other naked, after all, and that was just in Season 2, LOL. And if this is leading to romance, it would be one of the less hamfisted build-ups they've ever managed to pull off. As long as they don't gloss over the squick factor and the long and grotesque history of bad blood between Daniel and Wili and all of a sudden have them making googly eyes from across the conference room, there may be a slight chance this could work as a short-term affair for the two of them. Long-term? Meh.

#9

crescentNight

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Posted May 24, 2009 @ 1:23 AM

Did anyone catch it when Daniel was talking to Cal in The Born Identity? Wili just broke some fragile thing and Daniel said "she's hot". Or is it just my imagination?

Edited by crescentNight, May 24, 2009 @ 1:25 AM.