Jump to content

5-7: "The Life And Death Of Jeremy Bentham" 2009.02.25 (recap)


This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic.

540 replies to this topic

#31

FaithW

FaithW

    Couch Potato

Posted Feb 25, 2009 @ 10:17 PM

God damn it Kate. You are a terrible human being.


I have nothing more to say, I just needed this emphasized.

My love for this episode is balanced by my absolute hate for Kate; seriously, she was in it for a few minutes and sucked the awesome away. Seriously, judgmental much, bitch? I love Locke being honest with the new losties.


I was so mad at Kate for what she said to Locke. The whole accusing him of never loving anyone, and then calling him obsessed, (or whatever she inferred) was REALLY hard to take. I could have taken it from Jack better. I liked the interaction between Jack/Locke and Locke/Hurley. I even liked the moments between Locke/Walt even if it didn't really progress anything. He never actually said, "The island is done with Walt, it is not done with Sun/Jack/Kate/Hurley/Aaron/Sayid."

#32

grinlord

grinlord

    Fanatic

Posted Feb 25, 2009 @ 10:17 PM

Wow. That was a great Locke episode. Loved revisiting Helen, sad to learn she died.

Amazing how Lost still manages to shock:
-Abbadon getting offed like that.
-Ben killing Locke. OMGWTFPOLARBEAR. Completely out of nowhere for me.

It seems the Ajira survivors are on Hydra island. Any idea how long they've been there during this episode? It seems they found the Hydra station pretty fast.

TOC and ME continue to have some of the best onscreen chemistry I've seen on television.

#33

ronathan

ronathan

    Couch Potato

  • Location:Silver Spring, MD

Posted Feb 25, 2009 @ 10:17 PM

I want to know where the heck the boats came from, but more, I want to know WHEN Sayid and Sun are. If Jack, Kate, and Hurley are in the 70s or so, and the other 316ers are in the present-ish, are S&S then, now, or sometime in-between?



I think the 316ers landed on the mini-island that Sawyer, Jack, and Kate were kept prisoner on in the beginning half of season 3. The shot of the "main" island was the same as the one in the episode where Ben takes Sawyer on that long walk to show him that there was no where for him to escape to.

I'm not sure what the rationale or reason is, but it looks like the big flash of light that hit 316 before it crashed somehow "took" all of the 815ers (except for Locke) off and dumped them on the main island. Oh, and of course, except for Ben. It looks like, from the previews for next week, like we are all in the "present" (i.e. three years after they all left).

#34

Torgo98

Torgo98

    Video Archivist

Posted Feb 25, 2009 @ 10:17 PM

Remember when the marshall lady said that "the Pilot and a woman" took the third boat? I've been wracking my brain trying to figure out who it was... since all the losties should have traveled back in time... so who could the woman with Lapidus be?


I say Juliette.

#35

Prax

Prax

    Video Archivist

Posted Feb 25, 2009 @ 10:18 PM

I'm not sure if I'd chalk it up to anything other than sloppy production, but the NYC scene was totally bogus. There is no 67th and 8th intersection and the subway stop Ben was standing by was a non-existent station.


Indeed. Was it shot in LA or Honolulu? "Santa Monica" and the car crash seemed to be Hawaii; those background mountains didn't look like California. But how hard can it be to get subway station names right?

Forgot to mention before how much I hate Kate and Jack, now and forever.

No Jin this ep. Presumably he's in the past with K, J and Hurley; we've seen Ben (and yes I agree it's Hydra Island, judging by Locke's pining looks across the strait to the mountains of Craphole); where do we think Sayid is?

Edited by Prax, Feb 25, 2009 @ 10:19 PM.


#36

aleighg

aleighg

    Just Tuned In

Posted Feb 25, 2009 @ 10:19 PM

Locke visiting the Six was so great--I actually thought Hurley's "Bye" as he was screaming to be sent inside after seeing Abbadon was kind of cute, and very Hurley.

Kate and Jack? Augh--they were both absolutely horrid to him. I keep wondering what it is about these two that they have relatively "normal", happy lives off the island, and have absolutely no concern for any of the people they left behind. Kate's was especially cold, given her remark to Locke after mentioning his fallout with Helen.

I guess we're going to have to wait to see Ben's motives for killing Locke--it's going to drive me nuts.

Have we actually ever met Helen Norwood in one of the previous episodes?

#37

cycat

cycat

    Couch Potato

Posted Feb 25, 2009 @ 10:19 PM

Team Frank!!


With scruffy beard! Who did they say was with him when he took the boat?

Ben is just the absolute worst character ever. In a good way, I mean. Kudos to Michael Emerson for continuing to bring the oddball charm along with all the evil.

And Terry O'Quinn! I was welling up for Locke. He's so...stuck. And so sad. And oddly heroic, in a weird, damaged kind of way.

Oh, and Kate? Kiss my ass.

#38

Not Sure

Not Sure

    Couch Potato

Posted Feb 25, 2009 @ 10:19 PM

Sun & Sayid had better be in the same time/place as Kate/Jack/Hurley, because there is no logical explanation for them to be anywhere else.

Sadly, I was relieved when Locke's apparent suicide was halted -- and then annoyed when he ended up getting killed anyway, because [comic book guy] it's an error in the plot timeline. This scene appeared to happen very soon after Jack saw Locke in the hospital, and Ben confirmed that Jack had "just" bought a ticket to Sidney, presumably because the visit had made him change his mind. But in TTLG, when Jack saw Bentham's obit in the paper, he told Kate that he "had been using" the golden pass and flying out "every Friday" for an indeterminate period of time hoping to crash. Yet if he just started doing this after the visit from Locke, and had bought his first ticket the night of Locke's death, then how had he been making all these weekend trips long before Bentham's obit made the paper?[/comic book guy]

Sorry, but I don't buy any possibility that Abbadon can be Walt. They were in the same place at the same time in the real world. I can suspend my disbelief around the island's time travel issues, but that doesn't extend to New York. Abbadon cannot be Walt.

#39

Love

Love

    Fanatic

  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Canada
  • Interests:Dancing and music. LOST was my fave tv show ever. Can't believe how much I miss it. There will never be another like it. My fave shows now consist of Game of Thrones, Vikings, Arrow, Once Upon A Time & CSI (original flavour). I still try to catch the Vampire Diaries and Glee for old times sake.

Posted Feb 25, 2009 @ 10:19 PM

Wow! If I didn't already hate Ben...this episode would have done it. From here on in, unless he resurrects both Helen and Nadia, Ben can die by the hand of any remaining Oceanic survivor. And I'm not even a huge Locke fan. My Ben hate overrides everything.

I did love how of all the O6, Sayid was the kindest to John.

#40

dj118

dj118

    Channel Surfer

Posted Feb 25, 2009 @ 10:19 PM

My guess is that it is Sun with Lapidus.

#41

picardythird

picardythird

    Channel Surfer

Posted Feb 25, 2009 @ 10:20 PM

Terry O'Quinn outdid himself tonight. Simply masterful acting.

Ditto those who totally don't believe Helen is dead- if Widmore can fake an entire airplane crash in the ocean, faking one tombstone is peanuts.

Very interesting how Ben killed Locke only after the latter mentioned Jin's existence/ referenced Ms. Hawking...especially if one considers that by gathering the O6, convincing them to come back, and using Ms. Hawking to find the coordinates to the Island, Ben was essentially fulfilling what Locke would have done anyway. Perhaps this is the only way he could have returned to the island after being "banished"...

Very aesthetically pleasing episode- though I'm not sure about these New!Castaways.

Is it next week yet?

#42

AimingforYoko

AimingforYoko

    Stalker

  • Gender:Male

Posted Feb 25, 2009 @ 10:22 PM

Have we actually ever met Helen Norwood in one of the previous episodes?

Several Locke flashbacks, she was played by Katey Sagal.

#43

Cain

Cain

    Fanatic

Posted Feb 25, 2009 @ 10:22 PM

Was it just me, or were the opening/closing scenes with Ceasar in the gloom too dark to make out anything? I've noticed that on all my boxed sets, too, but maybe its just my TV. Anyone else?
Anyway, good ep, but probably the weakest of the season for me (not that that is saying much). I guess I was distracted by John's nast breast-milk vomit. What the fuck had he been eating?! Anyway, yeah... it was nice to finally tie up any lose ends and the mindfuck with Widmore/Ben about who's good/bad is great. I figured Ben killed Locke. Oh, and Locke be resurrected once he got back on the Island pissed me off: I really hate it when shows kill people, and then make them alive again. There better be a good explanation, if it's anything close to "Oh, well, the island can just revive dead people" I will not be impressed. I was frustrated enough when we found out Jin was alive... but at least his undeathness was sensible; he was on the very edge of the freighter. But I digress.

#44

DownsideUp

DownsideUp

    Fanatic

Posted Feb 25, 2009 @ 10:23 PM

One of the things I do like is how coy they're playing it with Ben and Widmore. Everytime you think Widmore's the black hat, Ben does something evil and vice versa. It will be interesting to see who's right in the end. Or if neither of them are.

I am definitely believing everything Widmore says. Until we see otherwise, he has been telling the truth as far as we can tell. Ben, from the first day we saw him, has always been a liar, manipulator and conniving little rat bastard.

But he is still made of awesome.

#45

FaithW

FaithW

    Couch Potato

Posted Feb 25, 2009 @ 10:23 PM

It seems the Ajira survivors are on Hydra island. Any idea how long they've been there during this episode? It seems they found the Hydra station pretty fast.


This is what I thought automatically. So they take the boats to the "mainland". The pilot (aka Frank) and some woman. Then someone else follows them (probably Locke and company). That's why our Lefties find two boats on the "mainland" at one point.

#46

BearCat

BearCat

    Couch Potato

Posted Feb 25, 2009 @ 10:23 PM

I don't care who is with Lapidus, so long as we get more Lapidus.

I wonder if it's Lapidus/woman shooting at the on-islanders on the water a few eps ago...

Ben knew that all of the Oceanic 6 had to return to the island and Locke had made a promise not to tell Sun that Jin was alive. Knowing that Locke wouldn't break his promise, Ben came up with a new plan.

I totally got the impression that Ben's demeanor changed when Locke mentioned Sun and the ring, not Eloise Hawking; I think his deciding to murder Locke had much more to do with that than Eloise, as speculated by others.

Edited by BearCat, Feb 25, 2009 @ 10:24 PM.


#47

cycat

cycat

    Couch Potato

Posted Feb 25, 2009 @ 10:24 PM

My guess is that it is Sun with Lapidus.


Oh, yeah! I knew I was forgetting someone. And that makes sense, too, since she'd be looking for Jin. Sun's not one to waste a lot of time chit-chatting.

And is there anyone hotter than Philanthropist!Sayid? I submit that there is not....

#48

TheWildBoo

TheWildBoo

    Loyal Viewer

Posted Feb 25, 2009 @ 10:24 PM

[comic book guy] it's an error in the plot timeline. This scene appeared to happen very soon after Jack saw Locke in the hospital, and Ben confirmed that Jack had "just" bought a ticket to Sidney, presumably because the visit had made him change his mind. But in TTLG, when Jack saw Bentham's obit in the paper, he told Kate that he "had been using" the golden pass and flying out "every Friday" for an indeterminate period of time hoping to crash. Yet if he just started doing this after the visit from Locke, and had bought his first ticket the night of Locke's death, then how had he been making all these weekend trips long before Bentham's obit made the paper?[/comic book guy]


This was bothering me as well. My only thought is that, since Locke was all alone with no connections left in the world maybe it took awhile to discover his body and/or get an obit and a funeral?

Overall, I have to admit I found the episode pretty boring. But, the Ben/John scene made it all worthwhile. I did not see that coming at all. It was a classic Lost WTF moment for me and I loved it. I love how scared and desperate Ben seems to be. It's such a great side to his character - he's so much more than just a "villain".

#49

randyman

randyman

    Channel Surfer

Posted Feb 25, 2009 @ 10:24 PM

Terry O'Quinn outdid himself tonight. Simply masterful acting.


Agreed, picardythird - (any other music majors here who know what your name means? :)

Just amazing acting here, from many in the cast... this is the one they'll send in to the Emmys.

Let's hope that Locke's fate resolves from minor to major, just like your namesake...

#50

msintn

msintn

    Video Archivist

Posted Feb 25, 2009 @ 10:25 PM

Okay now I'm utterly convinced Ben is the real evil one and there's nothing wrong with Widmore. Ben is evil and needs to be destroyed. I totally didn't see that one coming. I always figured Locke was really murdered, but never would have guessed Ben was the one who did it.

I loved this episode, but can't wait to get back to the island next week. I hate that they killed off Abaddon, I wanted to see more of him. On the whole thing with Helen and Locke, I just figured it wasn't meant to be all along, because his purpose was to go to the island. Besides, wasn't it a case where she didn't really love him back, or something like that?

And if Ben succeeded in his quest to kill Penny, I am going to be SO pissed.

#51

idledandy

idledandy

    Stalker

Posted Feb 25, 2009 @ 10:26 PM

So let's see if I can put this together: 316 lands on Hydra (on the runway from season 3?) They find the canoes and paddle to the main island, scaring Rose and Bernard, who take off in the Zodiac. They find the 815 camp and eat/drink everything. Team Sawyer steals a canoe. They follow them. Cesar shoots at them with his new gun.

That's a pretty quick turnaround on all the stuff in "The Little Prince"!

#52

BarkingTuna

BarkingTuna

    Loyal Viewer

Posted Feb 25, 2009 @ 10:26 PM

Loved the episode. Terry O'Quinn rules.

I'm still digesting and pondering TLaDoJB, but one thing that is bugging the heck out of me right now (and I haven't seen mentioned in skimming the thread's 3 pages at the time of this comment)...

Widmore gave Locke a world phone, told him to dial 23 if he needed anything. Why would Locke not contact him for protection after Abbadon was killed?

I'm not buying that Widmore is the white hat all of a sudden, but it puzzled me that Locke went right from Jack to suicide, without calling Widmore to either ask for help or even just let him know that his henchman got shot up in broad daylight.

#53

wrxfanatic

wrxfanatic

    Couch Potato

Posted Feb 25, 2009 @ 10:28 PM

From Locke's last statements, are we to understand that he came back to life because he flashed back to a time (in the 70's if he is contemporaneous with Jack, Kate and Hurley) when he was still alive?

Also, I guess the war started when Ben somehow tricked Widmore off the island. I picture the two of them down in the cave, and Ben says "Hey, Charles, why don't you turn that donkey wheel and see what happens?" Then Charles pushes on it and, as the world flashes away, he hears Ben say "Sucker!"

Edited by wrxfanatic, Feb 25, 2009 @ 10:32 PM.


#54

Darth Pipes

Darth Pipes

    Couch Potato

Posted Feb 25, 2009 @ 10:29 PM

What a great hour of television. I really liked the format of the episode and Terry O'Quinn gave a knockout performance. It was nice seeing Walt again and all of Jack's visits with the island folks were good. Nice car crash sequence. Poor Helen though. And poor Abbandon.

Could smell Ben killing Locke a mile away but the scene was still effective. Don't know who to trust between him and Widmore. I like that we have a new group of survivors and they are in the present while some of the Five are in the past. One thing I'd like to know though...did Frank remember the way off the island?

#55

molsongrrrl

molsongrrrl

    Couch Potato

  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Atlanta GA

Posted Feb 25, 2009 @ 10:30 PM

Jack and Kate were a$$holes as usual.


I'm not sure I agree with this. I wouldn't want to go back to craphole island either, especially after what it took to get off that rock! And really, I can't blame for not believing Locke considering he spent most of his time on the island trying to force everyone to stay. Just saying.

I enjoyed the episode overall. I just hope we don't spend too much time with the NewLosties. We have enough going on with everyone else!

A war is coming. Well, that didn't sound very positive ...

#56

La Boheme

La Boheme

    Couch Potato

Posted Feb 25, 2009 @ 10:30 PM

Was the title of this episode 'Return of the Black Folks (at least temporarily). When the camera closed in on Locke at the beginning of the show, I thought 'so he's alive again. This is crazy; you can't have Locke on the island again without Walt coming back. Walt was the special one, not Locke'. Needless to say I was very happy to see Malcolm's name in the guest star credits. But what the fuck was that? Do the writers even care about continuity anymore? And just what is the problem TPTB at Lost have with black men? Was Walt brought back just for that? Kind of like what they did to Michael. Mr. Abadaba was really interesting but, once again, it was a waste.

Are there going to be more Lostaways now? What is the point of introducing new characters? They haven't dealt with the hundreds that came before. There will come a day when I will be able to quit this show; I'm praying that day is close.

#57

AimingforYoko

AimingforYoko

    Stalker

  • Gender:Male

Posted Feb 25, 2009 @ 10:31 PM

From Locke's last statements, are we to understand that he came back to life because he flashed back to a time (in the 70's if he is contemporaneous with Jack, Kate and Hurley) when he was still alive?

He didn't flash. He crashed with Lapidus, Ben and all the other passengers. It sounds like only the O6 flashed.

#58

MissPutter

MissPutter

    Loyal Viewer

Posted Feb 25, 2009 @ 10:31 PM

Anyone have a theory why Locke and Ben did not travel back to the 70's with the O5?

#59

tze

tze

    Fanatic

Posted Feb 25, 2009 @ 10:31 PM

My guess is that it is Sun with Lapidus.


I agree. Notice that Caesar and Iliana (was that her name?) didn't know the woman's name, and Lapidus grabbed the flight manifest, thereby ensuring that nobody would know that three of the infamous Oceanic Six (five?) were the missing ones.

As the new marshal isn't dead, Sayid is probably in handcuffs somewhere, and that's why he didn't get to go with Lapidus and Sun.

As to why only three of them ended up vanishing...maybe it has something to do with the fact that all six of them didn't go back? Ms. Hawking did say that if everyone didn't go back, the result would be unpredictable. Aaron didn't go back; maybe that's what screwed everything up?

I hope Locke reconnects with Richard Alpert. Alpert is made of awesomeness.

#60

FaithW

FaithW

    Couch Potato

Posted Feb 25, 2009 @ 10:32 PM

I don't know who's evil or not. Ben seemed genuine (up until the murder), and who's to say that by placing Abaddon with Locke, Widmore wasn't just keeping close tabs on him (while keeping out of harms way)? Waiting for Locke to ask to visit someone that was gonna help him (Widmore) find the island. And then maybe Widmore would have killed Locke too. Ben/Widmore were just in a race to find the information first, and then kill the source to prevent the other from getting a lead. Although, you have to think if Ben and Widmore are tracking the same people, they'd also be tracking each other... lol

ETA: Interesting that both people (Widmore/Ben) want Locke on the island, or at least SAID they wanted him as leader, or something to that affect.

Edited by FaithW, Feb 25, 2009 @ 10:35 PM.