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Adoption and Television


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#1

lonely tourist

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Posted Jan 13, 2009 @ 4:15 PM

Pardon me if I'm stepping on anyone's toes here. But, every time a child is adopted into a family on television, it seems, there's always a problem. He doesn't fit in, or he's a problem child, or the parents decide they don't want her or him anymore. I've seen this a lot of times on L&O shows, in fact L&O seems to hate adoptive families.

I know adoption isn't always rosy, but surely it's got to be better than this! Anyone else want to chime in on how blended families are portrayed on television?

#2

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Posted Jan 13, 2009 @ 4:35 PM

Well, off the top of my head, there's 90210. Dixon was adopted as a young child into his family. Thus far, he's not the problem child and he fits in well. Depending on the point of view, his only *problem* is that he's a black boy adopted by a white family and has primarily lived in a 'white' world. This came into play in last weeks episode where he was happy to find a whole different world (comprised of black people) in his new town. But, I wouldn't consider it a problem (unless, of course, it skews his own perception of himself and causes him problems in how he relates to black people. Thus far, this hasn't been too much of an issue).

Edited by IvyDarling, Jan 13, 2009 @ 4:36 PM.


#3

QAF Rocks

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Posted Jan 13, 2009 @ 5:32 PM

Oh, neat, an adoption thread!

I'm always interested in how adoptive families are portrayed in the media. For what it's worth, I thought South of Nowhere did a good job with their adoption storyline. One of the teenage sons in the main character's family, Clay, was adopted as a young child. He didn't have any particular problems (or at least no more than his other siblings), and was generally an all-around nice guy. Unfortunately, he was also killed off in the third season, but that was because the actor wanted to leave the show. Anyway, I thought it was a nice portrait of a transracial adoptive family.

Edited by QAF Rocks, Jan 13, 2009 @ 8:15 PM.


#4

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Posted Jan 13, 2009 @ 6:01 PM

Brenda Hampton, the "genius" who brought you 7th Heaven and Secret Life of the American Teenager, appears to have very skewed views on the subject if the storylines on both shows are any indication. At least on 7th Heaven, people who adopted older children out of foster care were seen as saints, while people who want to adopt newborns are vile and selfish creatures. The worst example of the latter was an episode where the Reverend and Annie convince an unmarried teenage couple to not place their unplanned, unwanted baby for adoption. The only choices of adoptive parents were one rich couple who wanted to adopt so the wife "wouldn't get fat" and another couple who was only concerned that the baby be really smart and have special talents. This is all very interesting considering that Brenda Hampton's two children are adopted.

#5

QAF Rocks

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Posted Jan 13, 2009 @ 6:22 PM

Musing on this topic some more...

The short-lived sitcom It's All Relative featured an adoptive family: two gay dads and their college-age daughter. Cute show, and the family was treated as perfectly normal. Liz's adoption was mentioned in passing, as part of the basic information, but there wasn't any unusual focus on it.

Though now entirely in re-runs, Adoption Stories on the Discovery Health Channel features heartwarming profiles of adoptive families. The difficulties are not glossed over, but the focus is overwhelmingly positive, and the kids are awfully cute. I wish they'd film more episodes of this series.

Well, off the top of my head, there's 90210.


Speaking of which, Steve Sanders on the original Beverly Hills, 90210 was adopted. It was a bit of a convoluted storyline, IIRC. Steve only found out he was adopted at the age of 18, and he disappeared for a few weeks and tried to track down his birth mother (who turned out to be dead). After that, it seemed like things went back to normal, although later in the show (long after I stopped watching), I think it ended up that Steve's adoptive father was actually his biological father, and Steve's birth had been the result of an affair. Something crazy like that.

Edited by QAF Rocks, Jan 13, 2009 @ 6:24 PM.


#6

BondGirl

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Posted Jan 13, 2009 @ 6:51 PM

Looking back, I really disliked the adoption stories of AMC's Kendall and GH's Carly.

One girl was the product of her then 14 year old mother's rape, the other a result of her 18 year old prostitute mother's liason with a john. Despite these mitigating circumstances, despite the fact that both girls had been placed with loving adoptive families, each girl came to their respective towns with the firmly held belief that they had been thrown away and absolutely hell bent on ruining their birth mother's lives, which they proceeded to do in short order.

About the only positive adoption story I've seen on TV is when ER's Jing-Mei Chen gave up her son, fearing that her family would shun him and her because he was biracial.

#7

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Posted Jan 13, 2009 @ 7:41 PM

Adoption stories on tv are almost always a surefire way to get my blood boiling. If one took tv dramatizations as the sole guide, no one would try to adopt an infant, because it is nearly certain that the adoption would at some point be overturned and the baby returned to its birth parent[s], regardless of the fitness of the adoptive family. The example that always comes to mind - for sheer rage-inducing properties - was when "L.A. Law"'s Stuart and Ann adopted a baby girl named Kelsey [mom's maiden name] who was torn away from them when the mother came back, filled with regrets and demands for "mah BAY-bee". Not only did it not matter that Stuart and Ann had provided a constant, stable and loving home for Kelsey, they were savagely criticized by the judge for being wealthy professionals. I literally screamed at the tv set when the baby was taken away from them on the spot.

Sadly, I haven't seen much on tv since then to indicate that this viewpoint has changed at all.

#8

LolaRuns

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Posted Jan 13, 2009 @ 7:48 PM

Caveat: I'm not adopted, have never given a baby up for adoption and don't know anybody who is adopted in real life.

One thing that drives me crazy on soap operas is whenever a long forgotten chlid that the mother gave up for adoption, or that she believed stolen, or that is illegitimate and the father didn't know about, shows up in search for their birth mom/dad... and the adoptive parents NEVER seem to play any role at all.

They just seemlessly integrate into the new family and though they acknowledge that their birth parents are great and loving and still alive, they just instantly treat the birth family as family and vice versa.

I guess to me it just seems to feed into some really weird "I was really switched at birth, my real parents are filthy rich and I will move in with my newly found mom, dad and siblings leaving my annoying old family behind" fantasy.

It drives me especially crazy if a character like that dies or gets married and the adoptive family who raised him/her aren't invited/aren't even mentioned/don't show up.

Edited by LolaRuns, Jan 13, 2009 @ 7:49 PM.


#9

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Posted Jan 13, 2009 @ 8:01 PM

Though now entirely in re-runs, Adoption Stories on the Discovery Health Channel features heartwarming profiles of adoptive families. The difficulties are not glossed over, but the focus is overwhelmingly positive, and the kids are awfully cute. I wish they'd film more episodes of this series


Me too. I am so Adoption Stories's bitch.

Another interesting angle is that several of the adoptive parents are gay. My favorite was Heather, the recovering heroin addict who voluntarily placed her third child for adoption(the older two had been taken from her by the courts), and chose a gay male couple because she didn't want the child growing up prejudiced. I'm not ashamed to admit I cried when they said at the end that Heather became ill and died shortly after filming. :(

#10

buggal

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Posted Jan 13, 2009 @ 8:02 PM

I always appreciated that they chose to have Monica and Chandler adopt on Friends. Through the whole storyline, I expected something to go wrong with the adoption and the couple would find themselves pregant, which of course would be what they "really" wanted in the first place. The fact that they not only had the adoption go forward but treated it as every bit a legitimate and "real" way of becoming parents warmed my heart a bit.

Edited by buggal, Jan 13, 2009 @ 8:02 PM.


#11

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Posted Jan 13, 2009 @ 8:14 PM

On Nip/Tuck, Christian is the single adoptive dad of Wilbur, a biracial little boy. There were some struggles with custody in earlier seasons, though. A judge gave custody of Wilbur to his biological father, but then the birth father died, and Wilbur was returned to Christian. Things have been relatively low-key since then. The show hardly ever focuses on Christian being a dad, but it is a positive portrayal of adoption. There's no doubt that Wilbur is one of the few stable relationships in Christian's life, and they've always had a tight bond.

On Six Feet Under, there was also a positive adoption storyline. David and Keith adopted two little boys from foster care. I know their older son had some initial problems adjusting to his new home, but other than the usual hurdles, nothing out of the ordinary was presented. In the "flash forward" at the end of the series, we got to see a glimpse of the two boys all grown up, with their respective spouses and children.

Musing on some of my favorite childhood shows, Punky Brewster featured a single adoptive dad and his daughter. There were episodes relating to Punky's adoption, and it was very important to Punky to no longer be a foster child and to have a permanent home. Overall, I would say it was an excellent portrayal of an older-child adoption. I don't remember Webster quite as well, but it featured another adoptive family. George and Katherine, who were white, adopted Webster, who was African American. From the few episodes I saw, it seemed to be a happy family.

One thing that drives me crazy on soap operas


Speaking of soap operas, one thing I remember from a long time ago was that Mack and Karen on Knot's Landing adopted a baby daughter, Meg. I believe at one point (I never saw this season) the biological grandmother tried to get custody, but despite the usual weird soapy twists and turns, Meg remained with her mom and dad. I think it was the last season of the show, so their family life ended on a positive note.

I've seen this a lot of times on L&O shows, in fact L&O seems to hate adoptive families.


I've seen a bunch of negative Law and Order episodes, but at least one turned out okay for the adoptive family:

A Season 11 episode, “Phobia,” which aired on February 14, 2001, a gay man is beaten to death and his adopted baby is kidnapped. The police discover that the kidnappers were the baby’s birth mother, an ex-junkie named Celia, and the birth father, Robert. When Celia told Robert that the baby was adopted by gay dads, Robert was upset and decided to take the child back. During the kidnapping he assaulted the gay father while shouting “Faggot!” and ended up killing him. The fact that Robert was hurling homophobic epithets at his victim enabled the prosecutors to classify the murder as a hate crime, and in this case the killer was successfully convicted.


At the end, the baby remained with his adoptive father. Of course, his other parent had been murdered, so I guess you can say it was a bittersweet ending.

Edited by QAF Rocks, Jan 15, 2009 @ 3:05 PM.


#12

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Posted Jan 13, 2009 @ 9:21 PM

From the other side, Grace Under Fire had a substantial story arc dealing with the now grown (college age) son, Matthew, that Grace had given up for adoption when she was college age herself. At least one episode dealt with Grace and Matthew's (adoptive) mother coming to terms with how to deal with each other and Matthew.

#13

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Posted Jan 13, 2009 @ 10:15 PM

Different Strokes dealt with this too, and there was a lot of conflict about it being an interracial adoption and Arnold and Willis not wanting to give up their roots.

#14

Ankai

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Posted Jan 13, 2009 @ 10:33 PM

He doesn't fit in, or he's a problem child, or the parents decide they don't want her or him anymore.

Or it turns out that the biological parents are a morally ambiguous politician and a woman who has the tendency to set things on fire.

#15

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Posted Jan 13, 2009 @ 10:51 PM

Me too. I am so Adoption Stories's bitch. Another interesting angle is that several of the adoptive parents are gay. My favorite was Heather, the recovering heroin addict who voluntarily placed her third child for adoption(the older two had been taken from her by the courts), and chose a gay male couple because she didn't want the child growing up prejudiced. I'm not ashamed to admit I cried when they said at the end that Heather became ill and died shortly after filming. :(


Yay, another fan. I seriously love Adoption Stories, but I'm sad that they seem to have stopped producing episodes. It would be neat, though, if they would film updates on the families profiled. Since most of the episodes are from 2003 and 2004, all of the kids are quite a bit older. It would be neat to see them so many years later.

And I also appreciate the diversity of the families presented. You have gay couples, straight couples, single parents, international adoption, domestic adoption, private adoption, open adoption, transracial adoption, you name it. I remember the episode you mentioned, Devon's New Family, from 2003. That was very sad. I just found an article about them from 2006. I wonder how they are all doing now.

The fact that they not only had the adoption go forward but treated it as every bit a legitimate and "real" way of becoming parents warmed my heart a bit.


There was something similar to that on Dharma and Greg. Dharma really wanted to adopt instead of getting pregnant, and they ended up with a baby boy. I think it was a transracial adoption, too. But I seem to remember that the adoption didn't work out? I wasn't a regular viewer of that show, so I'm not exactly sure what happened. Does anyone know?

Or it turns out that the biological parents are a morally ambiguous politician and a woman who has the tendency to set things on fire.


That sounds...intriguing, to say the least! What show was that from??

Edited by QAF Rocks, Jan 13, 2009 @ 10:55 PM.


#16

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Posted Jan 13, 2009 @ 11:22 PM

That sounds...intriguing, to say the least! What show was that from??


Heroes.

#17

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Posted Jan 13, 2009 @ 11:28 PM

On Heroes, Claire -- one of the main characters -- is adopted. Her younger brother may be too, but nobody makes a big deal out of it (except for when Claire wanted to find out who her biological parents were when her ability first manifested because she thought they'd be able to help her understand it) so it's never been said if he is too or not. She has a decent relationship with her biological parents, but she's always considered her adoptive parents to be her real parents.



And on Brothers and Sisters Robert and Kitty are in the process of adopting a baby after they couldn't conceive on their own.

#18

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Posted Jan 14, 2009 @ 12:14 AM

At the end, the baby remained with his adoptive father. Of course, his other parent had been murdered, so I guess you can say it was a bittersweet ending.

I may be incorrectly remembering that Law and Order episode, but I thought it was the adoptive father who had been killed and the kidnapped baby ended up being returned to the adoptive father's partner. As the partner had no legal standing in the adoption, he was concerned - reasonably so - that he would not be allowed to keep their son.

As the episode ended, the birth mother - who had engineered the kidnapping of the baby which resulted in the death of the man's partner - asked that the child be told something about his mother. The man, restraining his anger, replied that she would likely be able to tell the child herself.

#19

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Posted Jan 14, 2009 @ 2:59 AM

There was something similar to that on Dharma and Greg. Dharma really wanted to adopt instead of getting pregnant, and they ended up with a baby boy. I think it was a transracial adoption, too. But I seem to remember that the adoption didn't work out? I wasn't a regular viewer of that show, so I'm not exactly sure what happened. Does anyone know?

It was transracial, although the birth mother was white. She ended up taking the baby back after a couple of weeks, played out over a three episode arc, and Dharma and Greg eventually, in the series finale, decided to conceive a biological child. Years later, the same actress that played the birth mother is now on Army Wives, and at the start of the series was pregnant as a paid surrogate. She did let those parents keep their baby.

Judging Amy did a semi-similar long story line in which Amy's brother and sister-in-law adopted a bi-racial child. The birth mother surrendered her rights when the baby was a newborn, and they had legally adopted the child, but then the birth father (who had gotten back with the birth mother) reclaimed little Ned, who was by then a toddler. A bit later, though, the birth parents changed their minds again and Ned was returned to his adoptive family for good.

And on Brothers and Sisters Robert and Kitty are in the process of adopting a baby after they couldn't conceive on their own.

If they go with the present birth mother, that will also be a transracial adoption. The birth mother is played by Sonja Sohn (The Wire), and in a nice change, she is not poor or a drug addict, but a doctor making a free choice to give up her child (and is not conflicted or shamed about it as when Jing-Ma/Deb gave up her baby on ER.)

#20

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Posted Jan 14, 2009 @ 3:06 AM

Years later, the same actress that played the birth mother is now on Army Wives, and at the start of the series was pregnant as a paid surrogate. She did let those parents keep their baby.

In this case, though, the twins weren't biologically hers.

#21

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Posted Jan 14, 2009 @ 7:37 AM

On Sex and the City, the birth parents that Charlotte and Harry were originally thinking of adopting from were portrayed as white trash who told Goldenblatts that they changed their minds when they met them for lunch in New York. At least they didn't tell them AFTER the Goldenblatts took the baby!

Of course, the Goldenblatts later got Lily and then Rose.

#22

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Posted Jan 14, 2009 @ 8:26 AM

Webster.... featured another adoptive family. George and Susan, who were white, adopted Webster, who was African American. From the few episodes I saw, it seemed to be a happy family.


[nitpick]Technically Webster was George's godson (George and Web's dad were teammates on their football team and close friends). I'm not sure if he formally adopted him but he was his legal guardian for some time. [/nitpick]

What I thought at the time was how often do you see two close friends decide to be godparents to each other's children and then one day you actually do have to take responsibility? It was good to see George (and wife Katherine) to step up to the plate - even though it was completely unexpected.


I know in many older TV shows (blanking specifically at the moment), adopted kids almost always seemed to be portrayed as feeling "out of place" in the family - especially if the couple had biological children before or after the adopted kid came along.

I remember "Soap" had an adoption storyline of sorts... the middle daughter Corinne found out she was adopted (she was over 18 IIRC) and was crushed to find out about it (understandable). Then her bio mom shows up to take her back (played by Inga Swenson) and tried to continually turn her against her adoptive parents (Chester & Jessica Tate).

Facts of Life had one when we learned the character of Natalie was adopted (she knew about it all her life) but wanted to know more about her bio parents and Blair offered to use her connections to get the info from sealed records. They finally had the info they wanted (they were waiting for a phone call from a judge who found the records) when...Natalie decided they weren't her parents and she didn't want to know after all.

#23

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Posted Jan 14, 2009 @ 11:50 AM

I seriously love Adoption Stories, but I'm sad that they seem to have stopped producing episodes. It would be neat, though, if they would film updates on the families profiled. Since most of the episodes are from 2003 and 2004, all of the kids are quite a bit older. It would be neat to see them so many years later.

Oh I dig that show, too! And an erlier poster talked about the young woman who placed her baby boy with the gay couple....and then she died after filming! I watched that and was like, "WHAT?" And yes I would love updates on "Adoption Story" as well. I appreciated the stories that were not "White Couple Seeks Newborn White Baby." Yes those stories were on, but we also had single mom and international adoption, single dad (the Diana family - he adopted teen boys) and many older children adoptions plus foster care turning into adoption.

The gay couple were one of my favorites because they out in a portfolio for a birth mom, thinking no one will ever pick them and the wait could be long and then they receive a call a week or so later and the birth mom has chosen them and wants them in teh delivery room! And she is delivering next week. There was another gay couple from California who adopted a pre-teen girl and they were so refreshing. Their parents were shown playing cards and just hanging out and so excited for a grandaughter.

We need updates! And please show the gay couples to all groups who oppose gay couples (or gay singles) adopting kids. These kids are on TV announcing: "I have a home with parents (or a parent) and I love it."

#24

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Posted Jan 14, 2009 @ 12:17 PM

The birth mother is played by Sonja Sohn (The Wire)

Speaking of The Wire, Season 4 had a bit of a story, though it was not one of the big ones. Namond, the big-talking son of a jailed gang enforcer father and a rather callous mother gets sort of adopted by an older couple when the biological father realises that the boy's life is going to end horribly if it keeps going the way it is going. We do not really see how the new family adjusts, but we do see Namond doing quite well in a scene in Season 5. He himself may not have necessarily changed drastically, but the environment and the people have changed his life for the better. Maybe his new family allowed him to appreciate what the world can do and his own potential.

Alternately, there is Randy, a cheery little schemer who has lived with foster parents and in group homes. When his foster mother get severely injured, a police officer who may feel responsible for the incident tries to help out Randy, even offering to take the boy in. His plea does not work and Randy gets sent back to a group home, where he is subject to attacks. We see him in Season 5, taller, meaner, crueler. Maybe he really has turned bad or maybe it is a front. At this point, it does not matter; that little kid whom he shoved into the wall still got shoved into the wall.

#25

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Posted Jan 14, 2009 @ 12:22 PM

Gossip Girl is doing a particulary soapy storyline. Lily put her and Rufus' baby up for adoption 19 years ago without ever telling him, and now they've gone to look for their son. This last episode the adoptive father agreed to meet them, but lied that the son had died so as not to have another child taken away. Lily and Rufus's children from other relationships are now dating, which is squicky enough since they'll step-siblings if Lily and Rufus ever marry, but I wouldn't be surprised if their son eventually will show up anonymously all V.C. Andrews style and show an interest in one of his half-sisters.

It reminded me of a L&O: SVU episode where it turned out the mother had been murdered and her baby had been stolen and sold to a shady adoption ring. The biological father knew nothing about the pregnancy so he still had the right to take back his then 12 year old son, and I think the maternal grandparents also wanted custody. The bio dad won custody, but it seemed like he would set up a co-parenting deal with the adoptive parents.

The birth mother is played by Sonja Sohn (The Wire)

Speaking of "The Wire", Kima never adopted Cheryl's (her lesbian partner) son, right? They were supposed to have the baby as a couple with donor sperm which I assumed would involve some sort of legal status for Kima, but then they broke up and she was Aunt Kima.

Edited by jackiecarr, Jan 14, 2009 @ 12:29 PM.


#26

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Posted Jan 14, 2009 @ 12:26 PM

Musing on some of my favorite childhood shows, Punky Brewster featured a single adoptive dad and his daughter. There were episodes relating to Punky's adoption, and it was very important to Punky to no longer be a foster child and to have a permanent home. Overall, I would say it was an excellent portrayal of an older-child adoption. I don't remember Webster quite as well, but it featured another adoptive family. George and Susan, who were white, adopted Webster, who was African American. From the few episodes I saw, it seemed to be a happy family.



Glad I'm not the only one who is old enough to go to Punky right away! I only have a fuzzy memory of the arc, but they definitely made the process important and I recall a brief stint in a group home too. Though it was a bit fishy how quickly he got her as a foster given his age, singlehood, etc. I think they vet fosters for quite a bit

I'll add Different Strokes to this grouping. And note that even as a youngin' I found it odd that there were two major shows about shorter-than-normal AA boys being adopted into Caucasian families

#27

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Posted Jan 14, 2009 @ 12:47 PM

This season of 30 Days had an episode in which a mother with two adopted children (who was herself an adoptee), who was against gay couples adopting, stayed for a month with a gay couple who had adopted four boys. The woman was absolutely insufferable. Every time someone tried to engage in a conversation with her about the issue she cried, accused people of attacking her, and ran away. She refused to see the value of gay couple adoptions even when she talked with young people who had aged out of foster care and just wanted any parents, gay or straight. (I believe on the show they said that many gay couples deliberately adopt children who would otherwise be ignored, like older foster children or special-needs children.) In the end she said that she was going to continue to fight against gay couples adopting and then was shocked, shocked I tell you, that the couple didn't want to be friends with her. In the end, the couple brought up a good (albiet disheartening) point--they always thought that if opponents of gay parenting would just spend a day with them and see that they were really good parents, they would change their minds. That turned out not to be true, because hatred that deep does not respond to things like logic or empirical evidence.

#28

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Posted Jan 14, 2009 @ 2:00 PM

One thing that drives me crazy on soap operas is whenever a long forgotten chlid that the mother gave up for adoption, or that she believed stolen, or that is illegitimate and the father didn't know about, shows up in search for their birth mom/dad... and the adoptive parents NEVER seem to play any role at all.

They just seemlessly integrate into the new family and though they acknowledge that their birth parents are great and loving and still alive, they just instantly treat the birth family as family and vice versa.

That is sort of what happened on Ugly Betty, and it has always bothered me. Amanda finds out she was adopted and that Faye Summers is her birth mom and all she talks about is her birth parents anymore. I know she was mad at her adoptive parents about it and wants to know who her dad is, but whenever she says "my mother," it makes me feel bad for the lady who raised her.

#29

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Posted Jan 14, 2009 @ 2:33 PM

This season of 30 Days had an episode in which a mother with two adopted children (who was herself an adoptee), who was against gay couples adopting, stayed for a month with a gay couple who had adopted four boys.

GeoBQn, when I started reading your post I was all upset that I missed that episode of 30 Days but as I read further I was relieved to have missed it. On "Adoption Stories" one social worker said gay couples make excellent adoptive parents of preteens as they can clearly identify with feelings of isolation and rejection. Plus gay couples often have to deal with their gay friends accusing them of "trying to be straight." I did a little research and the one white male gay couple who adopted two little African American boys (Something-Todd family?) went on to adopt two Afican-American pre-teen girls. It makes me cry when I see not the parents (well them too) but the grandparents who are just bursting with pride!

#30

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Posted Jan 14, 2009 @ 3:52 PM

Another interesting angle is that several of the adoptive parents are gay. My favorite was Heather, the recovering heroin addict who voluntarily placed her third child for adoption(the older two had been taken from her by the courts), and chose a gay male couple because she didn't want the child growing up prejudiced. I'm not ashamed to admit I cried when they said at the end that Heather became ill and died shortly after filming.


That really is a shame. There was a gay male couple I loved who adopted a little girl when she was eleven, I think. They talked about their first fight with her, and how she packed her bag after being sent to her room and waited for them to send her away. Broke my heart. And they were such a sweet family.

I thought that Arthur handled the adoption of Binky's little sister quite well. They showed some of the steps towards adoption (in a montage), and it took a year for them to go to China to meet Mei Lin. True, it was a bit simplified (the show is, after all, meant for small children, though it does seem to have quite an adult following!), but it was fairly realistic.

I thought Friends did pretty well as well, as far as sitcoms go.

Though it was a bit fishy how quickly he got her as a foster given his age, singlehood, etc. I think they vet fosters for quite a bit


They do indeed, but I guess for the sake of the show they had to bypass that so they could be together fairly quickly.

Edited by McKay, Jan 14, 2009 @ 3:55 PM.