48 replies to this topic

[TWoP Gadget]

Remember, this thread is for speculation, and not for spoilers. If you have spoilers, they go in the Spoilers thread, please.

[Jersey47]

I really don't know if this is the right place for this, but I was watching the premiere (fabulous) last night and I started to notice similarities between this show and Alias.
Both shows have a naive-now-jaded heroine working for an organization straight out of college that they think will do good but ends up doing horrible things (Hewes & Associates for Ellen, SD-6 for Sydney). Both Ellen & Sydney are hired because they have some connection to the organization's longterm goals (Ellen was friends with a "key witness" Katie, Sydney was hired because of her relations to Rambaldi). They both hate their bosses, who view them as surrogate daughters for the ones they lost (Jacqueline for Sloane and Julia for Patty) and so Ellen and Sydney decide to work with the US government to bring those bosses and organizations down. Both had their doctor fiances (David for Ellen, Daniel for Sydney) killed in their bathtubs because of a hit put out by their bosses.
This may be reading too far into it, but it REALLY hit me last night.

[Brandi1978]

I had the same thought just the other day!

[Absurdist]

I never watched an entire episode of Alias, but I figure that the characters and situations are pretty boilerplate archetypal, so...

Just my 2 cents.

[millernate]

Well there are certainly a lot of specific show related things to speculate on so far:

1. Who (edited from how) tried to kill Ellen in Season 1? Conventional wisdom says it was Glenn Close, but we don't know for sure and there's just enough doubt that they could do something else with it.

2. How is Hollis Nye connected to the FBI investigation? Because he seemed involved with it prior to when he grabbed Ellen for the "Meet the Feds" car conversation. Which might be why he so promptly stopped recruiting Ellen when he heard Patty was recruiting her.

3. How is Daniel Purcell connected with Patty. Was he Julia's father, even though the person Patty would have been involved with at the time doesn't fit his description (see Patty's conversation with Ellen on her first love, circa the middle of last season)? Is he Michael's father?

4. Who is Ellen treatening with the gun in the crazycakes future version of herself? ONe generally doesn't fire off a shot if no one is there.

5. What is Wes's (Timothy Olyphant) deal and why does he keep running into Ellen?

6. How does Ellen avoid discovery, or avoid getting irreparably fired (as opposed to last seasons's firing which was very reparable) when discovered?

Any other potential speculations?

Edited by millernate, Jan 10, 2009 @ 3:47 PM.

[PostcardtoaLake]

2. How is Hollis Nye connected to the FBI investigation? Because he seemed involved with it prior to when he grabbed Ellen for the "Meet the Feds" car conversation. Which might be why he so promptly stopped recruiting Ellen when he heard Patty was recruiting her.

Nye being aware of the FBI involvement all along would explain why he dropped Ellen like a hot potato after hearing that she's being interviewed by Patty (and it would explain that "you've been warned" card he asked her to sign). Maybe he was a catalyst in the FBI investigating Patty, he did seem awful involved in the case if he got Ellen involved (I'm just guessing it might be him, since he was in the limo with the FBI guys). And he genuinely seemed like a guy with a conscience (he even asked Ellen to sign his business card so it would clear his conscience), so Patty's unethical tactics might be something he'd go to the FBI over, if it bothered him enough.

[Benji]

Wes is obviously spying on Ellen for Patty. I mean....duh. I say he's the one she pulls the gun on 6 months later. She gets close to him and involved romantically, he betrays her, and the "I lied" is about her saying she didn't want to get a gun. No way Patty dies and I see a Frobisher redemption arc coming. I can totally picture them just getting Timothy Olyphant for a season long thing.

[Rollins316]

1. Who (edited from how) tried to kill Ellen in Season 1? Conventional wisdom says it was Glenn Close, but we don't know for sure and there's just enough doubt that they could do something else with it.

I think it has to be Patty, since I don't see the writers of Damages doing the one thing that Shawn Ryan, bless his heart, was able to refrain from doing during seven years of "The Shield" as far as backpeddling on Vic Mackey murdering Terry Crowley; they may try and whitewash the whole thing via revealing that Pete was the real mastermind and that Patty passively went along with the deal but I don't think that the writers will try and bend over backwards to make it someone other than Patty in order to try and move Patty back into the mindset of loveable anti-hero.

2. How is Hollis Nye connected to the FBI investigation? Because he seemed involved with it prior to when he grabbed Ellen for the "Meet the Feds" car conversation. Which might be why he so promptly stopped recruiting Ellen when he heard Patty was recruiting her.

There is the notion that, if the FBI people are NOT FBI agents and are people plotting against Patty while pretending to be the Feds, that Nye might be an unknowing/unwitting pawn as far as taking them at face value ala Ellen. Which might make sense if Nye suspects that the agents may not be what they seem, as far as warning Ellen off.

Alternatively, and again going on the notion that agents aren't really FBI, they may be working for Nye as part of a double-bluff as far as Nye being the puppet master and creating the illusion for Ellen that the agents are working for the Feds and not working for Nye, who in turn is pretending to be subordinate to his underlings so that he can keep an eye on his plot to bring down Patty.

3. How is Daniel Purcell connected with Patty. Was he Julia's father, even though the person Patty would have been involved with at the time doesn't fit his description (see Patty's conversation with Ellen on her first love, circa the middle of last season)? Is he Michael's father?

He's either the father of Michael or the first love, who's description Patty lied about to Ellen because she was trying to break her and David up. Or he's another generic lover of Patty, who's relationship ended badly.

4. Who is Ellen treatening with the gun in the crazycakes future version of herself? ONe generally doesn't fire off a shot if no one is there.

Has to be Frobisher; his storyline usefulness is nearly exhausted and if they are going for a "forgive or revenge" themed angle this season, it makes more sense that Patty receives the forgiveness while Frobisher gets the receiving end of Ellen's need for revenge.

5. What is Wes's (Timothy Olyphant) deal and why does he keep running into Ellen?

I'm thinking generic love interest/voice of reason character to serve as Ellen's conscience.

6. How does Ellen avoid discovery, or avoid getting irreparably fired (as opposed to last seasons's firing which was very reparable) when discovered?

Simple: Patty and Ellen reconcile and they find a way to double-cross the FBI agents without exposing the fact that Ellen double/triplecrossed them.

[Elen]

How obvious are they making it that Daniel is Michael's father? I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if the show went in a completely opposite direction, but dang. Their exchanged looks and Patty's discomfort were not subtle.

[jase-bot]

It looked to me like Michael knew Daniel was his dad, given the shocked look he gave Patty after the elevator doors closed.

[MBenzN]

I thought it was because Michael looked so much like the attacker he described. Shorter than him, blonde, kinda nordic looking. Either he was having a flashback to aftermath of his wife's murder, or Michael killed his wife...

[Awfully Good]

Elen, I first thought that too, but now I'm not sure if Michael reminded him of his wife's killer if there was one.

1. Who (edited from how) tried to kill Ellen in Season 1?

Patty.

3. How is Daniel Purcell connected with Patty.

Its clear that he was her lover once and I assumed like everyone that he was the father of Julia. After watching episode 2, I thought he was Michael's father. After rewatching episode 2, I'm not sure. *confused*

4. Who is Ellen threatening with the gun in the crazycakes future version of herself?

Since she got the gun from Tom, I'm going to rule him out. I'm also going to rule out Patty, since the show will end with her death.

5. What is Wes's (Timothy Olyphant) deal and why does he keep running into Ellen?

Since it was revealed that he's tracking Frobisher for sometime, the both hate the same guy. Wes said that the guy that killed his girlfriend is in jail and I believed his story and think there's truth to that story. I'm not sure how Frobisher's part in all of that.

[Bullfrog]

I'm thinking Purcell killed his wife so he and Claire could be together, but did not realize that it was Claire's company behind the ... thing. (I am so bored with the environmental hijinx thing I don't even really pay attention.) That's why so silent in the car.

I will kind of be disappointed if Purcell is Michel's dad because it seems too obvious.

I agree with the speculation/speculators about Katie having something to do with leading Wes to Ellen.

[Mojorette]

I am just so glad to have a TV show with some teeth to it on again. I really missed it.

I think Ellen will turn into Patty and vice versa -- Ellen will not "complete" the deal with the feds. I hope anyway.

And Marcia Gay Harden on the show, what a character that will be... juicy!

Edited by TWoP Gadget, Jan 17, 2009 @ 9:40 AM.

[The Evil One]

I say he's the one she pulls the gun on 6 months later. She gets close to him and involved romantically, he betrays her, and the "I lied" is about her saying she didn't want to get a gun. No way Patty dies and I see a Frobisher redemption arc coming. I can totally picture them just getting Timothy Olyphant for a season long thing.

I totally agree that Wes is the one that gets the gun pulled on him. At first, I thought he was spying for Patty, but now I think there is a whole 'nother backstory to him that will be revealed over time. He has some sort of Frobisher obsession that seems independent of Patty Hewes.

I will kind of be disappointed if Purcell is Michel's dad because it seems too obvious.

I think Purcell is certainly Michael's dad, as predictable as that may seem. It's not as if Patty has loyalties to anyone and Purcell seems to strike a nerve and it is personal.

[L star]

I think Purcell is certainly Michael's dad, as predictable as that may seem. It's not as if Patty has loyalties to anyone and Purcell seems to strike a nerve and it is personal.

ITA but maybe there will be some kind of fallout among Phil/Patty/Michael or Patty/Michael because Michael and Purcell didn't seem to know. Whatever reason Patty had for having Michael completely on her own and cutting Daniel out of his life, particularly since in the premiere she said she'd spoken to him last only ten years ago, might be interesting to know. As would why, since she's obviously fine being alone with him in the office and at his beach house, she was so uncomfortable in the car with him in ep one.

Someone mentioned on the episode thread that Daniel seems to be trying to drag Patty into this. I agree. He seems to know Patty well- if so he would know that showing her all those papers would get her interested in what was going on and making her see the crime scene would get her emotionally invested. Once both of those things are taken care of there's no turning back with Patty even if he says/pretends he wants otherwise. I think he wants Patty after the corporation (Ultima?) but didn't expect her to get to them through Claire Maddox that fast.

There seem to be a lot of hints that Purcell killed his wife. Emphasis on his temper, revelation that he was having an affair, the obvious marital problems from ep 1, his stupid story to the cops. It almost seems to be too obvious but maybe that part of this is going to be over early. Purcell will be arrested but just be out on bail for the rest of the season.

[SassandtheCity]

My theory, based on the new episode this week with the ring being pawned, that Purcell did kill his wife and gave the ring away to the crazy guy who was pawning his ring, thus setting up the appearance of him being framed when he really wasn't.

[cattycat]

My theory, based on the new episode this week with the ring being pawned, that Purcell did kill his wife and gave the ring away to the crazy guy who was pawning his ring, thus setting up the appearance of him being framed when he really wasn't.

I like that theory - makes sense. The guy looked like a desperate junkie willing to take any handout he can, disregardless of the circumstances.

Could Katie's boyfriend be Wes Krulik??? Didn't see any Wes in this episode, so was wondering what he's been up to...

[amabele]

ITA but maybe there will be some kind of fallout among Phil/Patty/Michael or Patty/Michael because Michael and Purcell didn't seem to know.

I'm wondering if Phil knows about Daniel. Couldn't tell watching last night's episode. A friend told me he's supposed to play a bigger role this season (Phil), but I can't find any information on the internet.

[Douggley]

Could Katie's boyfriend be Wes Krulik??? Didn't see any Wes in this episode, so was wondering what he's been up to...

I'm assuming that Katie's boyfriend has to be that large bald black man that kissed her while she was talking to Ellen on the phone. I'm just wondering how Katie is going to come into play this season, because she has to be something other than "Ellen's last connection to real humanity"

[PostcardtoaLake]

I just saw the preview for 2.05 and it shows a quick flash of Patty's husband making out with another woman! I completely didn't expect that to happen.

[amabele]

Yeah, I was somewhat disappointed by that. BUT, if you look at the next shot in the preview, you see Patty with this shocked look and what I assumed to be blood on her face -- so I hope it's just Phil having a nightmare.

[MBenzN]

Some of my speculation:

Knowing the high body count this series had back in season one (half the cast or recurring cast!) I predict that neither Ketchup Cop, Wes or the man that killed Uncle Pete will survive the season.

I believe that the man who killed Uncle Pete was actually the man who tried to kill Ellen. Largely becasue they look so similar and because Pete's wife said that he'd been away for ages.

Ellen is playing Wes, and pretending to be a bad shot.

[SanLynn]

Ellen is playing Wes, and pretending to be a bad shot.

I agree and I think Wes is who she's talking to when she says "I lied too".

I think there's some sort of lag time between the confrontation with Patty and Ellen actually firing the gun. But that's just my feeling based on nothing whatsoever.

It's unfortunate though because I like the play between Ellen and Wes. It also sucks that it'll be the second man in her life to die in a few months. It'd be nice if I was wrong on that one.

Edited by SanLynn, Mar 2, 2009 @ 7:42 PM.

[Bullfrog]

Is there a third person in the room, and who is that person?

Right now, I think the answer is yes, and while it could be one of many people, today I am leaning toward Michael. Ellen lost the person she loved most because of Patty. She's completely insane now. She is going to take the person Patty loves most.

I reserve the right to change my mind as many times as necessary.

[rapunzelchick]

Right now, I think the answer is yes, and while it could be one of many people, today I am leaning toward Michael. Ellen lost the person she loved most because of Patty. She's completely insane now. She is going to take the person Patty loves most.

I had never, ever considered that! It's entirely possible but I sure hope you're wrong. I hate when kids end up suffering somehow because of their parents' shit. I feel for Daniel Purcell's daughter and Frobisher's kids.

[Authorized User]

Dave (do we know his last name) is connected like none other. He has FBI agents kills then just smooths it over with the Deputy Director. And he is even smart enough to ask for Patty's advice when he feels like it. But he did seem to screw up when he bought those Cadillacs. They connect him to Garrity. Garrity, however, is connected to UNR only by the callgirl. I don't think that is good for her, especially after word gets out Patty has been pulling strings for her.

It does not seem like Ellen shoots herself, since she seems to aim the gun at something. Maybe she shoots that guy who tried to kill her and also killed Uncle Pete. That would explain why she lets Patty leave and would be kind of fitting. This would mean that it turns out Patty did not order the attempt on Ellen's life and it was something Uncle Pete did on his own. (Did I miss something; Have we already established the truth either way)

Kendrick is going to go down. Hard. Harder than Frobisher even. All his allies are going to abandon him and he is going to be left looking like the evil person he is. Daniel Purcell certainly is one duplicitous SOB. He just keeps lying and deceiving and then deceiving some more.

[Bullfrog]

Right now, I think the answer is yes, and while it could be one of many people, today I am leaning toward Michael. Ellen lost the person she loved most because of Patty. She's completely insane now. She is going to take the person Patty loves most.

I had never, ever considered that! It's entirely possible but I sure hope you're wrong. I hate when kids end up suffering somehow because of their parents' shit. I feel for Daniel Purcell's daughter and Frobisher's kids.

And now I am disagreeing with myself, because if Patty's son was shot right before her eyes, would she stumble slowly out of the room or sprint to find help? Or would she leave her kid's body at all? The way she was moving made me think she was injured. I am most intrigued by how she could afford to leave the room so slowly, and not look like she was worried about anyone following her out of there? In S1, Ellen was constantly turning around and looking behind her, if I remember correctly.

Patty/Glenn just looked so insanely shocked coming out of that room, I assumed the shoot-ee had to be someone she cared about. I mean, she freaked when Ray shot himself, but she still had the presence of mind to call someone. She looked absolutely numb with terror. Would someone she doesn't know being shot render her that zombie-like? Especially because she had blood on her hands. If someone was shot next to her, she'd have blood spattered on her, but she had blood on her hands, which makes me think she touched the body.

Clearly I have too much time on my hands.

[rapunzelchick]

The way she was moving made me think she was injured.

That has been my guess since the first reveal that it was Patty in the room. I think it was right around the point where Ellen took out the red folder Stefania had given her. It looked to me like Patty had her hand on her stomach and/or was breathing in a way that suggested that she was injured. I mentioned it in the thread for that episode but nobody else replied whether or not they had noticed it too.

[Counse]

That has been my guess since the first reveal that it was Patty in the room. I think it was right around the point where Ellen took out the red folder Stefania had given her. It looked to me like Patty had her hand on her stomach and/or was breathing in a way that suggested that she was injured. I mentioned it in the thread for that episode but nobody else replied whether or not they had noticed it too.

It's hard to tell. The sense I get from those scenes is more that Patty's terrified (which is a new/rare thing for her) hence the way she acts/breathes. As for her stumbling out with a bloody hand, it could just be from the shock of witnessing a murder. It's a testament to Glenn Close that she's able to play those scenes so well and yet still make them so ambiguous.

Is there a third person in the room, and who is that person?

Right now, I think the answer is yes, and while it could be one of many people, today I am leaning toward Michael. Ellen lost the person she loved most because of Patty. She's completely insane now. She is going to take the person Patty loves most.

I'm in the "third person" camp too. I've been trying to play "process of elimination" to see who CAN'T be in the room and so far I have -

* Tom ('cause he's the one who gave Ellen the gun and had been banned from Hewes and Associates as far as we know)
* The FBI guys ('cause one was watching and the other one's dead)

Those were the only ones I'm pretty sure of. Everyone else is up in the air although I'm thinking Claire wouldn't be there 'cause she's got no reason to be but with this show, who knows?

Edited by Counse, Mar 13, 2009 @ 11:02 AM.