43 replies to this topic

[TWoP Mars]

From ABCMediaNet.com:

As Karen excitedly prepares for her wedding day, she is convinced that this fifth marriage - to family nemesis Simon Elder -- is the one that will end in happily ever after. But Tripp is still suspicious of Simon's real motives and wants Nick to make one last-ditch effort to keep the wedding from happening. Lisa hopes taking Jeremy to the wedding will make Nick jealous. In other developments, Patrick hires Jeremy to join his senate team, against Nola's protestations; Brian finds himself drawing closer to Andrea as her illness worsens; and when Letitia sees Tripp paying too much attention to their houseguest, Wrenn, she realizes that this pretty, young woman has overstayed her welcome.

[Roots]

DAMN. So tonight Nick lost pretty much everyone close to him:

Lisa - totally done

Wrenn - told her to leave so, also, done.

Tripp - can't trust him anymore

Karen - hates him (slap!)

AND he has to work with Simon in the future? Worst. Day. Ever.

Edited by Roots, Dec 3, 2008 @ 11:04 PM.

[FaithW]

IA Roots-- was the worst day ever. Part that I didn't understand is why Nick let Karen believe he had a real part in all of it. Tripp called the shots, and he's been warning her about Simon from the beginning-- where did he do something wrong? The only reasoning I could give for this was that Nick felt guilty for what had happened to her, so guilty, that he felt he deserved her hate, somehow? I don't know... confused.

Is Wrenn gone for good? I, for one am surprised. I thought she would have a more lengthly stay on the show. I'm also surprised, with this season's record, that Wrenn DIDNT flirt with Tripp in this episode, and I thought we'd find out she's working for Simon Elder. Was SO glad to see Simon go down, and get upset, it was marvelous. But I hated how Tripp readily took him as a partner. Wasn't Simon totally failing, the whole point of this? Or is Tripp proving he's the better man? OR, is he setting Simon up for MORE failure, readily realizing that he might go down too?

I thought Karen made no sense when she was talking with Simon. We've always been given the impression that she cares a lot for Nick, and if Nick turned around, she'd be there... But I suppose she wants love so much, she thought she truly did/does love Simon. But when she said all that she really wanted was Simon-- I was confused, as she had been playing Simon in the beginning. At the very least knew her dad might be up to something still (with or without her)... and found all those articles pointing to Simon wanting the company.

Andrea, and Brian were totally sweet together. I knew that as soon as Karen/Simon's wedding didn't go through, Brian would jump up (as he had just admittedly told her he loved her).

I actually liked this episode quite a bit, and just loved everything with Nick, he was dominant again this episode... It makes the whole cancellation thing sting. SAVE THIS SHOW. :(

[Merlando]

Huh, except for the whole "is Brian divorced and where the hell are his other kids this is effing stupid for the actor and cliche" that was good... loved the call-back with the DJ from the party. Sooooo glad Karen slapped Nick; somebody needed to.

And did I miss something from the promos, or was Juliet supposed to have come back?

[FaithW]

Merlando--Maybe if I rewatch S1 really REALLY closely, maybe we'll see an offhand divorce for Brian and his wife? I seriously cannot remember, but as this gets brought up in each episode thread, I'm not gonna bother defending the writers/Brian. Although, I think Brian is somewhat defendable. Not for HAVING TWO WIVES (lol), if he infact does, I don't know... but for not going after the other.

Juliet was supposed to be in the episode last week that the network (or whoever) preempted. I don't even know what that word means, but I know that it was the explaination last week... and I thought it was gonna be on, was all set to watch, and it wasn't... It was maddening!

[TiffanyNichelle]

This show has become such a trainwreck that I'm glad that it's canceled. Seriously what the hell? I just realized what's been bugging me the most about Karen this season. It was like they took season 1 Juliet and forced her giggly "oh Daddy" attitude onto Karen and it just doesn't work.

I don't know what was more disturbing, Tripp telling Nick about how he wanted to get up on Wrenn or Tripp telling Leticia that the only thing that kept him from jumping Wrenn's bones (and settling for his wife) was Nick dancing with Wrenn. BTW, go Leticia for that great attack on Wrenn. Still, you slept with your husband's best friend for 40 years so...shut up.

There had to be something more going on with Wrenn because I just don't get why she was so rushed to be in a relationship with Nick. Hello, you are watching his marriage go down in flames and there is clearly this huge history with Karen so what are you doing?

Brian used to be the best thing on this show but tonight made no sense. So I'm guessing his divorce from his first wife has come through? Or we are to competely forget that in season 1 he had a wife and two daughters and used to be in the church. All those things are gone? As are any scenes with the rest of the Darlings since he hasn't done anything with Tripp regarding the company since Tripp named Nick his succesor. He's like on a completely different show.

Simon is an ass and I hate that in the end he still won.

[StarrShine]

Way, way too much going on tonight. I loved it when it first started but now it is veering wildly out of control and no one seems to want to take a minute and fix what wrong with it. Karen is getting married for the FIFTH TIME and yet her wedding and her feelings for Simon are being treated like she is some blushing bride walking down the aisle for the first time. WTF?

I agree with the previous poster. Brian used to be the most interesting character on the show. He was a wonderful combination of Alexis from Dynasty, J.R Ewing from Dallas and Father Ralph from The Thorn Birds. Now he is Mr Sensitivity, and he is too boring for words.

[kalliep]

What the hell happened to this show? I haven't watched an episode for several weeks and I don't even know who these characters are anymore. I can't believe Karen is so incredibly stupid. I was hoping against hope that she redeems herself by taking down Simon herself like a scorned woman should but no luck.

At least my Brian love is still there. Sure, they softened him up a tad too much but I can't help but love him with Brian Jr. and Andrea.

[ImNotLeesa]

I actually liked this episode quite a bit, and just loved everything with Nick, he was dominant again this episode... It makes the whole cancellation thing sting.

It’s funny – I had almost the exact opposite reaction to this episode. I felt Lisa’s Summer House metaphor could almost be applied to the show…I kept watching, looking for the show I loved, but it wasn’t really there anymore. There’d be hints, from Tish and Tripp together at the wedding when he made his confession, for a moment when Nick and Lisa were talking after the wedding (before his attention was clunkily diverted away by Wrenn) and from Karen, of all people.

So much of what happened just felt like plot contrivances to me, given what we’ve seen of the characters before.

• Why would Tripp go into business with the man who’s been gunning for him and who treated his precious daughter so horribly?
• Why would Nick blurt out his suspicions that Tripp was getting back at him about Wrenn in front of Simon?
• Why would Tish tear into Wrenn after Tripp confirmed his love for Tish and after seeing Nick and Wrenn together?
• And for that matter, why would Nick have so quickly pursued a relationship with Wrenn (and think that all of Tripp's motivations revolve around her), while he’s still, you know, married, and as of 1 –2 episodes ago, still torn about his feelings for Karen? And why would Nick abruptly end a heartfelt conversation with the woman he has been married to for 10+ years to go chase after a woman he had known for, what, 2 weeks? (Aside from the fact that it made no sense, it was an example of the show losing sight of how to create and sustain actual, meaningful emotional moments...they built up some energy in the scene, and then just killed it.)
• Plus the whole Jeremy, Nola, Patrick, Pillowhead, Mr. Big Energy Guy plot line just seemed dumb to me, even if I managed to stop wondering how Patrick could be so blithely working away at his senatorial career after losing Ellen and Carmelita.
• And as much as the show was trying by working the sentimental piano music, most of the Brian-Angela scenes just seemed forced and too sentimental. He used to be snarky and snappish like a shelter puppy that just wanted to be loved but who had been hurt before. Now he just swings between sophmorically harsh and sappy. (and IMHO, it's not the actor, it's the writing.)

I'm also surprised, with this season's record, that Wrenn DIDNT flirt with Tripp in this episode.

I actually thought she did, when she looked coyly at him, reached up and straightened his tie. Sure, it wasn’t anvilish flirting, but it wasn’t the cool “I’m not at all interested in you” message she told Nick she'd give Tripp at the wedding.

I’m glad Wrenn’s apparently gone. Not just because I think Nick’s fascination with her developed too quickly and that the Nick-Tripp-Wrenn thing was too icky, but also because, for all the previous comments about how Nick had more chemistry with Karen than with Lisa, the show managed to find a new flame for Nick who makes the Nick-Lisa chemistry seem like 4th of July fireworks. I don’t know if it was the age difference, the writing, or the fact that the actors themselves knew it was a stupid storyline, but even without Tripp in the picture, I found the Nick-Wrenn scenes uncomfortable.

Thing is: I liked all these characters (even evil Simon Elder grew on me this season), and I really like all these actors (well, except for Lucy Liu) but this episode was more painful than entertaining to me. The only thing that would have made it all worth it is if Nick, instead of saying “See you Monday” to Tripp and Simon, had said “Well, then, I quit. I'm done with all of you."

Edited by ImNotLeesa, Dec 4, 2008 @ 12:41 AM.

[Bluedesire]

So i didnt hate it and any episode that has Tish doing more then standing there with a drink in her hands is win for me, but it did seem all over the place.

The Tish vs Wrenn moment totally seemed out of order, i would get it happening and would in fact love it if it didnt come RIGHT after Tripp tells Tish that she is the love of his life. Maybe it originally was suppose to be sooner? Cos when Nick runs after her Wrenn says she was talking to Tripp about Nick and then Tish just went ape shit on her ass?

Also the Patrick, Nora, Jeremy thing didnt fit with the rest at all and it just felt awkward when the man came to the wedding just to say they had a deal...that couldnt have waited?

I did enjoy watching Simon loose his cool, that was kind of satisfying for me

[neptune42]

Brian Darling - you complicated, conflicted, snarky man dealing with the newness of tender and intimate feelings that you feel deep down in your core but can barely express - I'll miss you most of all.

[TryingHarder]

OR, is he setting Simon up for MORE failure, readily realizing that he might go down too?

I am hoping there is more to Tripp's plan and that Simon is going down. Did Tripp think at all about how Karen might feel about all this? There better be more to it.

[marty118]

Who are these people, and what have they done with the Darlings? There is so much more that could be said, but I honestly think that covers most of it. None of the characters was consistent from scene to scene, let alone with anything we've seen before in either season.

The one bright spot was seeing Jeremy get his S1 joie de vivre back. But otherwise? They must have been playing Telephone in the writers room for this one.

[FaithW]

BTW, go Leticia for that great attack on Wrenn. Still, you slept with your husband's best friend for 40 years so...shut up.

Hee! This is what I was thinking. How long was Wrenn around in DSM time? Tripp simply LOOKS at her, and Tisha is all worried, and rightly so, I guess, but STILL. I don't even see how she feels she has the right. That somehow she is owed this life... because why exactly? Because she had a couple decade long affair instead of divorcing Tripp, so now she's entitled? Oh Leticia....

There had to be something more going on with Wrenn because I just don't get why she was so rushed to be in a relationship with Nick. Hello, you are watching his marriage go down in flames and there is clearly this huge history with Karen so what are you doing?

This season has made me think there's something going on with EVERYBODY. Everyone has ulterior motives, and no one can be trusted! But Wrenn SO didn't make any sense, but that's tv. On television, people with a LOT of drama, doesn't make the other person go running (where in real life it SO would), it happens ALL the time on television. Instead of one person being turned off, they're just more intrigued by that person, and it's so weird. If I were in Wrenn's shoes, the second I saw his WIFE and another woman fighting over him, I would give up.

Simon is an ass and I hate that in the end he still won.

Did he win? Simon threw a fit, and then stumbled back to Tripp to complain about what happened. Simon's an IDIOT for believing it would be so easy, to think that Tripp didn't have any power over the situation, or plan up his sleeve. Then Tripp decided to buy back half the company for a fraction of the price. I think Tripp's getting exactly what he wants. I don't get why he would want Simon as a partner, and I don't get why Simon would ACCEPT it. Tripp gave Simon no choice but to accept! ...So as Simon gave Tripp no choice (with Karen vs the business), maybe we'll see Tripp try to ruin Simon from the inside. Keep your enemies close! I guess it could simply be if Simon/Tripp are essentially on the same side, he (Tripp) doesn't have to worry about Simon trying to screw him over...

Why would Nick blurt out his suspicions that Tripp was getting back at him about Wrenn in front of Simon?

Because Nick is not so much of a genius? lol. Simon doesn't need any help digging up scoop on people, I think he has enough. But Nick (once again) let his emotions get the best of him, and said how he was feeling in that moment, and didn't care who heard. Can't say I wouldn't have done the same. It does seem like punishment from Nick's POV. On the other hand, lol, makes you wanna say, "Everything isn't always about you, Nick."

Why would Tish tear into Wrenn after Tripp confirmed his love for Tish and after seeing Nick and Wrenn together?

Tish didn't want the chance that something could happen AT ALL, so she scared her off. Actually, if I'm remembering this right, from the VERY BEGINNING she didn't like Wrenn, and maybe that still had to do with Tripp, but maybe she honestly thought she was up to something, and I really, really thought she was gonna be employed by Simon somehow. Good point to the person upthread who reminded me that she had been fixing Tripp's tie, which wasn't exactly the "I'm not into you, but into Nick" speech she gave Nick later. Therefore, I can conclude we'll see more of Wrenn, I guess.

The only thing that would have made it all worth it is if Nick, instead of saying “See you Monday” to Tripp and Simon, had said “Well, then, I quit. I'm done with all of you."

I was waiting for it! I thought for sure, after having the shittiest day ever, he would turn around, and say, "You won't see me on Monday Tripp, I quit. I'm not working for a man that you wanted to destroy. Have fun with that, you two are meant for each other." That's just me though, ....

I am hoping there is more to Tripp's plan and that Simon is going down. Did Tripp think at all about how Karen might feel about all this? There better be more to it.

I think Tripp's been after Simon since S1, and he didn't factor in Karen ACTUALLY FALLING for him. I guess Tripp thought Karen was a bit tougher (she isn't), and a bit smarter (she SO isn't).

[TheRabbi]

After several episodes that left me shaking my head, I actually thought tonight's was pretty good, after the first 15 minutes, which were dreadful. Nick lost pretty much everyone. I also really liked his converstation with Karen at the halfway point when he told her the wedding was off; a very good scene. They have definitely softened up Brian a tad too much, but his scenes are still usually the best. He is still my favorite character. The only storyline I really dont care for is the Patrick/Jeremy/Nola one, which I find really stupid.


Also, I wonder what even happened in 207?? It seemed like last night's picked up right about where 206 left off, so I don't know what would have happened in last week's show.

[itsjfitz]

The only thing that would have made it all worth it is if Nick, instead of saying “See you Monday” to Tripp and Simon, had said “Well, then, I quit. I'm done with all of you."

I was waiting for it! I thought for sure, after having the shittiest day ever, he would turn around, and say, "You won't see me on Monday Tripp, I quit. I'm not working for a man that you wanted to destroy. Have fun with that, you two are meant for each other." That's just me though, ....

No, it's me too. I was expecting him to quit after the monologue about Tripp doing all of it to get back at him for Wrenn. And if he had, I think that might have actually worked as a series-ender. Nick tried to live in the Darlings' world, got so caught up in it that he lost everything--his marriage and family, his ethics, his desire to find out what happened to his father, even his childhood love, Karen. Then he realizes it's cost him everything and hasn't gained him a thing, and walks away from it all. I could have bought that. But there were previews for next week, so no, it'll keep going until they burn off the episodes they have, I guess, and it'll just get sillier and more nonsensical.

[FaithW]

I felt so bad for Nick in this episode! In the scene between Nick/Karen (that you're talking about TheRabbi he looked so sad. And yet, he felt compelled to tell her, as opposed to Tripp. Because he felt so guilty, and he shouldn't have. I think you can tell he cares about Karen SO much, he DID want her to be happy. Or was his guilt there because of how she wasn't gonna marry Simon and he was just glad? ....

[Sandman]

I was waiting for it! I thought for sure, after having the shittiest day ever, he would turn around, and say, "You won't see me on Monday Tripp, I quit. I'm not working for a man that you wanted to destroy. Have fun with that, you two are meant for each other." That's just me though, ....

Nope, not just you. I saw a few flickers of Season 1, here and there, but mostly I just couldn't believe what I was watching. I especially don't get why Nick is the one Karen chooses to be mad at. She couldn't have thrown Simon a nice juicy slap, since he's the one who actually lied to her the whole time and then sold her like a prize cow? She couldn't have been angry at her father, who apparently beggared himself to prevent her marriage to his enemy, in spite of the likelihood of destroying his daughter's happiness, however deluded that happiness turned out to be - and even the sale of the company ended up turning to her father's advantage? And, furthermore, that father is now in business with the scumbag who broke his daughter's fragile and increasingly stupid heart?

No, she has to blame Nick, because whatever is going wrong in Karen's life, whatever ridonkulous choices she makes, everything is always and in every way Nick's fault. She's as batshit crazy as her mother. And Letitia's horrid, shrewish dressing-down of Wrenn made her look completely unhinged. I have no particular respect for Wrenn, but I watched that scene with Letitia practically foaming at the mouth in her face, and wondered who among the showrunners hates Jill Clayburgh that much.

If I were in Nick's place, I would have followed Wrenn into the elevator, left the Dirty Sexy Manse and never looked back. Nick's loyalty to these manipulative, vicious, morbidly jealous, insane people grows less and less defensible as the show limps toward its close.

[xander874]

This show is bad. The whole Simon thing is stupid.

As for the show that got pre-empted last week, my understanding was it was a kind of "clip show" with unaired scenes from last season (hence, the return of Juliet) and didn't really move the plot forward. Which is weird to me, because I can't see why a show with less than 20 episodes under its belt needs to do a random clip show. Must be a money thing.

[ProfCrash]

I watched the first 10 minutes and deleted the episode from the DVR. Tripp wanting Nick to set up a lunch with Wrenn, Tripp, and Nick and then have Nick not show up? Sending Nick to talk to Simon about what it would take to stop the wedding?

What the hell happened to my smart, funny, sharp, muder mystery wrapped in debauchery?

Edited by ProfCrash, Dec 4, 2008 @ 9:54 AM.

[FaithW]

Sandman-- I choose to think that the reason that Karen CAN be mad at Nick and STAY mad at him, all leads back to her feelings for him. Doesn't it say something, in our real lives, when we can be mad at someone, tell them off, call them on their shit, and realize that they will love us anyway? That we don't have to be afraid ALL the time of losing that person? It's couples (friendship, and ANY kind of relationship) that can fight, have disagreements, can be mad and act mad when they're mad that survive, I believe. So it isn't right that Karen's mad at Nick, it's total bs, considering the things that others have done that she should be mad at. ...

Being mad at Nick, means she can ignore all the other really revealing truths. That Simon was to be her fifth husband, and she couldn't even close that. And instead of being denied "true love" again, she'll be mad at Nick, because it's a lot easier than thinking there's something wrong with yourself. Sometimes I think that Tripp and his children have good relationships, that he does know them... But the flicker of S1 was when I thought Tripp was gonna give up EVERYTHING for Karen. Not that I didn't think that that was completely stupid, and self destructive... but the power of a father's love? AND the return of a Tripp I knew? I thought that was EXCITING. Karen moving back home is like a punishment. She trusted a stupid guy, and now she's punishing herself, moving in with the same man who I think has let her down a lot.

It was a crazy moment between Leticia/Wreen, with her defending what was "her's". I thought it's so weird, as I mentioned upthread, that Leticia STILL feels entitled to all of this. I guess it's her messed up family, she can deal. But how do Leticia/Tripp come back from this? How do they come back from an affair that Leticia had for 40 years? I don't think they CAN. Tripp looked at another woman for like a second, and I don't even blame him... in this instance (and not in others) he looked like a saint. But he said a lot with what he didn't say with Leticia. It's like he's forgiven her, but it's bs. He should have said, "I can't pretend that things are the same... I can't go back, I have no choice but to move forward. But I don't know where we can go forward from this, and I don't know if I can trust you." I wish the way the scenes had went, that we hadn't got that moment between Tripp/Tish at the wedding, and instead he had caught her with Wrenn behind the scenes, and then said the above line. It would prove to me once again that Tripp is the same Tripp we've always known, and that Wrenn wasn't about Wrenn at all, it was all about love he wanted to feel for the woman he loved all of those years... which turned out to be a lie.

If the series had more time, and time is running out, I agree that Nick should have followed her out. OR when Karen returned, came clean with Karen instead of hanging his head, and told HER to walk away, and have him walk away with her. To have a few episodes of Nick away from all that Darling stuff... and to then come back to see what Tripp/Simon have been doing without him.

After what Tripp did to Karen, because i don't believe he "helped" her, it makes sense that he totally screwed Nick over too (even if you consider Wrenn or not). Nick's always been apart of the family, but he didn't consider his feelings in all of this at all. So either Tripp doesn't care, or he's just too oblivious to realize that it's PERSONAL between him and Simon, and I wish that Nick had've been more honest with Tripp about things that Simon had said.

This is getting too long, and I'm sorry. ....

[Mitch0046]

I don't get why he would want Simon as a partner, and I don't get why Simon would ACCEPT it. Tripp gave Simon no choice but to accept! ...So as Simon gave Tripp no choice (with Karen vs the business), maybe we'll see Tripp try to ruin Simon from the inside. Keep your enemies close! I guess it could simply be if Simon/Tripp are essentially on the same side, he (Tripp) doesn't have to worry about Simon trying to screw him over...

But he does. If he really did give Simon 50 percent, then all Simon needs is control over one more percent of the shares to force Tripp out of control. They never did say if Tripp has the other 50 percent or not, but my understanding is that all the kids, - except Karen - have voting stock in the company. We know there are other shareholders, so why give Simon enough to challenge Tripp? And how? There wasn't enough time for Tripp to buy back everyone's shares, and then sell the whole thing to Simon. I don't get it.

Also, who was the idiot that put LL in that blinding blue? That was just awful.

[FaithW]

Mitch0046-- I hadn't considered the fact that Tripp probably doesn't own half the company's stock personally (but through relatives or others). I keep thinking Tripp is SO screwed. But it was his idea, right? So for that reason, I am a little reassured. I wonder if the plan to bring Simon down THAT WAY was the plan from the beginning (to go along with Simon's plans, until crashing he -Tripp- crashed his own business after being sold to Simon), or was this the plan AFTER Tripp was given the basic ultimatum. There was a basic offhand Tripp who said, "I got some calls to make..." Anyone remember what was said.

Maybe it was just my tv (don't know if my color is right), but I loved that blue on Nola. Then again, I love what LL wears as Nola pretty much consistantly. What I didn't like however was what Lisa wore, with those god awful earrings. One or the other, would have been fine... but I think she should have opted for a necklace so she wouldn't seem SO naked, but I guess that was the point. But why would you try to make someone jealous, and then stare at them the whole time, and who they're with?

[redheader]

I love Brian and Andrea’s relationship, possible bigamy aside. But that’s it. This show as a whole has gotten so ridiculous. It’s funny, but not intentionally funny like it used to be. Something compels me to watch it to the end (that something is probably Brian and a little bit Jeremy), but you can’t have a show where every character’s personality and motivation change minute to minute. Nothing makes sense, and nobody seems to care that nothing makes sense. They’re not even pretending to try anymore.

[marty118]

Episode 207, which was pre-empted by the Barbara Walters interview the night before Thanksgiving, was Clark talking to a reporter. Everything was in flashbacks as he talked about different family members. The footage was mostly stuff taken from the episodes that were reshot for the beginning of this season. So sort of a clip show, and sort of just a way to get some financial use out of those scenes. But in terms of continuity, the story does go directly from the last episode we saw to this one.

[Sandman]

Sandman-- I choose to think that the reason that Karen CAN be mad at Nick and STAY mad at him, all leads back to her feelings for him. Doesn't it say something, in our real lives, when we can be mad at someone, tell them off, call them on their shit, and realize that they will love us anyway?

FaithW, I have no doubt that the reason Karen is always prepared to blame Nick connects to her feelings for him - calling them "unresolved" suggests the kind of understatement of which this show was once capable - it's just that (a) I'm no longer content to watch Karen be so completely free from self-awareness about this; and (b) can't believe Nick hasn't actually called her on it. I thought the show made it pretty clear last season that Husbands #1 through 4, up to and including Freddie, were substitutes for Nick to one degree or another, but it seemed to me that, formerly, Karen knew that, on some level. I never really bought that Simon Elder was the great love to free her from her disastrous love for Nick anyway, so I finding her level of angst over this a little bit hard to take. It's that over-the-top quality (in pretty much everyone, it must be said) that gives me trouble. Karen used to be cunning, and selfish, and kind of an operator - but she knew it. She was smart. Now she's just kind of pathetic, and more than a little unbalanced.

I am glad that Gustav got to see his parents married. Poor kid needs all the breaks he can get.

[ImNotLeesa]

sandman: I thought the show made it pretty clear last season that Husbands #1 through 4, up to and including Freddie, were substitutes for Nick to one degree or another, but it seemed to me that, formerly, Karen knew that, on some level....Karen used to be cunning, and selfish, and kind of an operator - but she knew it. She was smart. Now she's just kind of pathetic, and more than a little unbalanced.

Agreed. It's especially her lack of smarts and self awareness that have really bugged me this season. And after reading everyone’s comments here, I do feel a bit bad for Nick. He did take the bullet for Tripp and did a decent thing by breaking the news to Karen himself. That was a nice scene. And he even tried to save a bit of her dignity when he cut her off and said “this is not that conversation”. She should be way madder at Simon and Tripp, who treated her like chattel. During S1, or on some other show, next episode Karen would have cooled down a bit and realized that. But, this isn’t S1.

From the recap:

It is so difficult to tell what this show is about anymore. It honestly makes very little sense. It's like the writers' mission is to make it as convoluted and confusing as possible. Well, guess what? Mission accomplished.

You’re so right, and kudos to the person up-thread who said there must have been a game of telephone going on in the writers room. The pieces don’t fit together, and the pieces (like character, motivation, plot, history) seem to change from scene to scene, never mind from episode to episode.

The only way I can imagine this script getting written like this is that someone who had seen a few episodes of the show, but who was no way involved in production, described the show and the characters and some plot ideas to someone who hadn’t ever seen the show, who also doesn’t fluently speak the language of the person who described it. Then that 2nd person broke up portions of the story, handed them out to several teams of “writers” who also hadn’t seen the show or heard Craig Wright, Donald Sutherland or Peter Krause describe it, but may have been allowed to look at the show’s description or pictures of the characters on ABC.com. When all the portions of the script were finished, they were shuffled back together and handed off to the first person. Who then polished the script, smoothing out the English and throwing in a few “cool” quotes for Jeremy and “mean” quotes for Brian. Then they showed the script to Craig Wright, who was allowed to delete and/or add no more than 180 words from it. Then the show went into production. (One of the people involved in this sequence of events may or may not have been Steve MacPherson)

A couple of weeks ago, Peter Krause was scheduled to be on Jimmy Kimmel, but then didn’t wind up appearing. After seeing this episode, I’m wondering if he just gave up on press for the show, figuring there was no way he could talk this it up anymore with a straight face, since it had changed so much from what it had been. (of course, ABC could have also just bumped him, so who knows.)

Edited by ImNotLeesa, Dec 4, 2008 @ 12:18 PM.

[justinvdk]

Didn't I say the show would get progressively worse once we got past those first 3-4 episodes that contained scenes/plots from previous showrunners?

We're finally seeing the influence of Jon Feldman and it ain't pretty. I knew he would turn DSM into an utter disaster the moment I heard he was hired to take over the show running duties in June. I just knew it. I mean, anyone who had seen a single episode of 'Big Shots' could have known it.

And, for crying out loud, last episode that aired (206) was co-written by someone from production staff, and according to IMDB.com it was her first and only writing job ever. I'm too afraid to look up who wrote this week's disaster. Oh, my lovely DSM... You had been so great just a year ago... So much potential... What a tragic waste... R.I.P.

[GooglyBob]

Count me in as another fan distressed at what has happened to this show (I'm referring to the decrease in quality, rather than the cancellation; although given that I'm still watching, the latter is sad as well).

Most of my complaints are already upthread, but I'll add my voice to the chorus saying that it would have made MUCH more sense for Nick to quit after Tripp's news. He didn't want to work for them in the first place, and now all the people for whom he felt this unwilling loyalty have either cast him off or are behaving totally erratically.

Mr. GooglyBob (I'm a Ms.) says he still just wants to find out who killed his dad, but that plotline has been all but abandoned for several episodes.

[WatcherNZWoods]

It's been a loooooong time since I've posted... I'm usually just a fan and an avid reader and too lazy to post. But in response to Justin's last comment:

I looked up the recent writing credits on IMDB, and 206 was written by a writer/producer on the show (Paul Redford, who is evidently from West Wing) and a staff writer (people have to start somewhere). And this episode (208) was written by another writer/producer and a story editor.

BUT, more importantly, as most people know, writing credits don't mean anything. I'm sure Feldman and Wright come up with the storylines, and the writers fill in the blanks, like on most shows.

I'm still not sure where to place blame for this season's demise. Having read Wright's beautiful plays, and having read about Feldman's solid TV reputation, I would start with ABC. Anyway, don't those execs get paid boatloads of money to make sure a train-wreck like this DOESN'T happen?

Also, as long as I'm here, I too am bothered by the disappearance of Brian's last wife. But the theory I've come up with: maybe those weren't his kids? Maybe they were his from another marriage and that was a detail that was lost along the way or that I missed? I can't make sense of it otherwise, but that explanation would help me stomach why the writers wouldn't even MENTION his other children, who were girls... and that makes him seem, I dunno, sexist? Maybe that's supposed to be one of his character flaws? Sigh... I just hope they air all thirteen episodes so we can get SOME answers before this show disappears.