988 replies to this topic

[dc chick]

Has anyone been watching this show? It's on Animal Planet on Sunday nights. The show follows Sea Shepherd, an organization started by a former Greenpeace member (he was a founder of Greenpeace, but they kicked him out because he was too radical). From what I've gathered, the show is aboard one of Sea Shepherd's boats while they patrol Antarctic waters and interfere with Japanese whaling missions. I think they're all nuts, but I'm oddly fascinated and can't stop watching. For example, this past week, the crazy captain had two members of his crew board a Japanese whaling ship, knowing full well that they'd be taken hostage and maybe even hurt or killed. He wanted it to happen so he could call the media and say it happened. Nuts.

[Hannah8976]

I agree. I think they're all nuts, but it's fascinating to watch. While I don't doubt their passion for the cause and applaud their commitment, I think the officers on the ship are insane. Especially the captain (who seems a little too impressed with himself), the first mate (who is coming across as not capable of being the second-in-charge of a ship and possibly not even knowing the first thing about sailing), and the executive director (who makes shockingly unprofessional comments and decisions). Okay, we get that saving the whales is the primary goal, but you're also running an organization and managing some expensive assets, not to mention peoples' wellfare (no matter how much you cavalierly say "if people aren't willing to risk their lives, they shouldn't be here"), so how demonstrating about a little responsibility?

Plus, I think the captain totally guilted Potsy into going about the Japanese ship because he damaged the helicopter rotor and that was really uncool.

But, it's beautifully shot and every once in a while, you get to see some whales that aren't being slaughtered, and that's really cool.

[AsIfYouWish]

The show is amazing, the videography stunning and the crew inspiring! I wish I had that kind of passion and commitment to something.

But no way in hell would I ever sail under the Head Asshat! I get that Paul Watson cares way more about animals than people, probably with very good reason and so God bless him! But at some point, you have to show your commitment to the people who are so deeply committed to your cause, too. Otherwise, you're just an Assclown with a big boat.

Which pretty much covers Watson to a "T". He's even claimed responsibility for scuttling docked ships over the years, among other bizarro tactics.

BTW, Season 2 was already signed before a single episode ever aired. Animal Planet says they've tried to get the Japanese involved to show their side of the issue, what goes on on their boats, etc. I'm thinking we should probably not hold our collective breath waiting for the Japanese to take them up on it.

Edited by AsIfYouWish, Nov 22, 2008 @ 5:11 PM.

[jimena]

These people are on the other side of crazy, but I admire them for what they're willing to do for what they believe in. I think their cause is very worthy and I do not buy the Japanese line one bit. I would never do what Sea Shepard does but Greenpeace's methods haven't worked on this issue, right?

I would like to know what Watson did during his Greenpeace stint that made that organization kick him out.

One of the things that I find really interesting about this show is that there's a lot of incompetent people on the Steve Irwin. There's something about the first mate that is really strange- I don't think he has much of a clue about what he's doing.

Anyway, I like this show.

[AsIfYouWish]

I would like to know what Watson did during his Greenpeace stint that made that organization kick him out.

As I recall, there was a big controversy in the 70's over his tactics regarding the anti-sealing campaigns (I believe that he confronted the sealers and threw the sealer's clubs and the seal carcasses in the ocean) which resulted in the US, under heavy Canadian pressure, pulling Greenpeace's tax-exempt status for a period of time. Nothing motivates an organization like losing its tax-free status! The ultimate net result, if I recall correctly, was that GP decided that Watson didn't share their non-violent ethics and bounced him.

If that's indeed the case, then what with we've seen on Whale Wars I'd say they weren't too far off the mark. Watson clearly enjoys the spotlight and will do whatever it takes to get it and maintain it. While his motives may be pure, his methods are clearly not those of a peaceable group.

[dc chick]

All I kept thinking when he was annoyed that no one would volunteer to board the Japanese ship (an act that looked dangerous in and of itself, let alone not knowing whether they'd have to deal with sunny personalities on the ship) was "why the hell don't you go, jackass?" He seems WAY too willing to risk others. I mean, I love whales too and I think whaling is barbaric, but there's no way I'd be so cavalier about the people who joined MY ship and, therefore, are MY responsibility.

[Mooncake76]

I've seen the first two episodes and I think Paul Watson and his crew are a bunch of bumbling eco-terrorists. I love whales and I don't think they should be hunted, but what these people are doing is illegal. Not only are they putting their own lives in danger, they're putting the crew of the other ships in danger. It would be in the right of the other ships to use more lethal means to prevent their ship from being boarded and/or having their prop screwed with. Particularly because the whaling they're doing is "technically legal" and they should have a right to defend themselves. More should be focused on changing the legal status of what the whalers are doing instead of running around causing unnecessary mayhem on the high seas. Also, by doing what Watson and crew are doing (and broadcasting it), it actually hurts their cause. I think there are a lot of whale supporters out there, but most sane people will be appalled by their methods.

[Paralegal3]

Whales are beautiful creatures that need protecting. How this Captain goes about it is dangerous. If people sign on willing to risk their lives, so be it. I just wonder if this is what they signed on for?

[TiStampsUp]

This show is insane!

I love how they twist their story around for more media attention. Of course the Japanese are going to tie them up at first! They just jumped their ship! They don't know if they have weapons or bombs or whatever. If the Japanese boarded their ship, wouldn't they have done the same?

I think this show sheds a bad light on the Sea Shepherd.

I also love how Paul doesn't volunteer for his own ideas.

[Shae24]

I was wondering if this show had a forum or not...yay to dc chick for creating it.
Seriously, how does this crew manage to get anything done? They don't seem to have much training before going out to sea (aside from 3 or 4 mainstays, and the 2nd in command guy is a certifiable dolt). It seems like an interesting volunteer opportunity, but it's more along the lines of going to be human shields in Palestine than, say, building schools or teaching in a 3rd world country. Almost everyone gets seasick at the beginning, they're not well versed in lowering the small boat that does their "missions" (and that was fouled up by the dolt), the guy who was originally given the role of cook became the helicopter assistant guy and then fouled up the blade...and he wasn't familiar with cooking vegan food to start, which is a really good way to make it not taste good. Oh, and the captain has to be such a maverick that none of the other boats in the area want to deal with him.
I like the premise of the show, but I'm not really feeling the people on the Steve Irwin. Maybe they need to reconfigure the Sea Shepherd program (I assume it takes donations) to have several well-trained full time "employees" besides the captain and the first dolt. Whaling season is a few months, right? I would never allow anyone I care about to join a program like this, seeing how badly it's run.

[Big Machine]

These people are crazy, but at least crazy for a good cause. The way they say "the whales", you can tell it's beyond rationality, like how way-out abortion activists only say "the children" to justify whatever they do.

I can't stand the Chief Hippies. The Captain, the First Mate, and that other Nerdling running around.

Hilariously, I haven't seen them save a single whale, just almost kill themselves multiple times. For the whales.

[dc chick]

Ugh, Crazy Captain just keeps working my nerves! So, not only does he get pissed when people don't volunteer for his stupid dangerous ideas, then, when the guys who were strongarmed...ahem, volunteered, come back to the ship after being held for 3 days, he won't go down to welcome them back/shake their hands? Is he for real?

Oh, and I think Willfred is the only non-crazy guy there, so of course the idiots in "the chain of command" got mad at him when he took charge and started a search for the missing delta boat. Ugh.

Seriously, this show raises my blood pressure, but for some reason I can't stop watching.

[AsIfYouWish]

The idiots in the Delta boat didn't call in for hours and they got a minor verbal wrist slap. Yet Willfred started to go looking for them, and gets a genuine reprimand/demotion? WTF?? If the dinghies in the Delta (pun intended!) hadn't shown up when they did, Willfred would have/should have been hailed a s a hero for getting the search started!!

Asshat Watson should not have stayed up for umpteen hours doing publicity by phone. He should ensure that's well-rested in order to make sound decisions! When you have missing crew, that is an emergency, period. Then refusing to even go greet those whom he sent into harms way to do your bidding and then used for publicity fodder? Unconscionable!!

Edited by AsIfYouWish, Nov 24, 2008 @ 7:27 PM.

[DropTheSoap]

I'm all for saving the whales. I do think the Japanese are skirting the edge of legality with their "research" (esp. when it ends up on school menus after the research is done).

However, I can't back these guys, and couldn't watch much of this show. They seem quite dangerous to themselves and others.

[Nittany84]

I agree, DropTheSoap.

And you can't call it "kidnapping" when they voluntarily (and illegally, presumably) boarded the boat without permission. What did they expect to happen? Clearly, they wanted a "kidnapping" so they could get some international media attention.

[AsIfYouWish]

What did they expect to happen? Clearly, they wanted a "kidnapping" so they could get some international media attention.

Well, yeah. That's what it takes these days. As much as I appreciate and admire Greenpeace's work, the fact is, they aren't getting much done in the way of positive change these days. In order to get people's attention and provoke outrage, you have to be outrageous. Change seldom happens without a lot of audacious acts.

Do the ends justify the means? I guess that's a matter of personal ethics.

[charlesmartel]

"Captain" Paul Watson is a media whore and is probably doing more damage to his cause with Whale Wars. I'm afraid this show will do more to damage his reputation rather than help.

Watson cares more about staging an incident than he does about the safety of his crew. Hostages? How were the Japanese in any way guilty of kidnapping and holding hostages? They're lucky the Japanese didn't defend their vessel more vigorously to being boarded by eco-terrorists.

If I didn't know any better I would have guessed this was a mockumentary. The incompetence that is displayed on all levels is astonishing.

Edited by charlesmartel, Nov 25, 2008 @ 11:52 AM.

[cleopatraseven]

Watson isn't asking his crew to do anything he hasn't done himself. If you go to Sea Shepherd's website and read the volunteer application it clearly states that you agree to be willing to risk your life.

I think this show is the most compelling thing I've seen on Animal Planet outside of the Animal Cops/Precinct franchise. I do think that the people working on the ship do not communicate well sometimes and the Delta boat being lost the other night was inexcusable. They should have called in.

I agree with their mission and their tactics. Their tactics are aggressive but they cannot be called violent. They do not use lethal means. The violence is what is done to the whales.

[dc chick]

In my opinion, there's being willing to risk your life for a cause you believe in and then there's recklessly endangering the lives of people on your ship in order to get a good story on the news. One is admirable, the other is inexcusable. To me, there's a big difference between knowing that what you're doing is risky and being foolish and reckless. The "captain" is reckless. Sending two of his crewmembers to board that Japanese ship went beyond harrassing the whalers. It was sending two people into a situation where they could have been seriously injured or killed - both in the boarding attempt itself and after they were on the ship. How exactly did that help the whales? There are other ways to get your (or your organization's) name in lights. Then, to not even get out of bed when your zodiac's missing? Please. I know the crew didn't wake him up. But they didn't wake him up because he told them not to wake him up.

I think the man's going to get someone killed.

This is all just my opinion obviously. I think their cause is just. But the methods are just ludicrous.

[cleopatraseven]

Sending two of his crewmembers to board that Japanese ship went beyond harrassing the whalers. It was sending two people into a situation where they could have been seriously injured or killed

They could have said no. They looked fairly pleased to be on the Japanese ship according to the footage when they first jumped on. I guess we'll see this week what their ordeal was like and whether they regret it.

[yama]

I'm so glad there's a thread for this show!

Without getting into the debate of whether or not whaling is right, I absolutely cannot believe that Sea Shepherd can justify their actions. First, the International Maritime Bureau defines piracy as "the act of boarding any vessel with an intent to commit theft or any other crime, and with an intent or capacity to use force in furtherance of that act." After throwing stink bombs and slippery powder on deck, the whalers had no reason to think their intent WOULDN'T be malicious. They have been endlessly harrassed in a very confrontational manner--there's no reason for them to allow Potts and Giles to explain why they're on the boat before detaining them. They did what any normal people would do--neutralize the threat first, then figure out the actual intent.

Don't get me started on the prop foulers. Any Deadliest Catch fans here who remember what a big deal it was when some of the crabbing boats have gotten their props tangled in lines and had their engines disabled? Though it's unlikely that an engine of that size would be able to have its prop disabled by a single line (it would likely chop straight through that line), it would be a major hazard to all aboard should their engine become disabled in open sea. The fact that the Sea Shepherd people are willing to possibly kill people over their own personal interpretation of the law? It's like somebody deciding that a 50 mph speed zone is actually a 25 mph speed zone and putting out a nail strip to blow out the tires of any car traveling faster than THEY feel the car should be traveling.

I feel like most of the crew aboard have their hearts in the right place, but I'm not a fan of Paul Watson. I think he's taken advantage of some very well-meaning and naive people and used them as tools to achieve his own self-serving mission. He may have started this whole thing with the right intent but I think he's gotten caught up in his own ego along the way. His quote from the last episode about how he wasn't going to go shake hands with Potts and Giles when they came back on the boat because he "doesn't leave the bridge"? What an ass. They easily have a multi-million dollar operation and it seems that, as the show noted that many legal experts don't think the whalers are breaking the law, the money would go further by spending time in court to change the laws and get real enforcement--but that wouldn't put HIM in the spotlight like it does now. My opinion only, of course.

The education of the people on board, as it relates to boats and boat safety, is laughable at best and extremely scary at worst. The flipping of the zodiac was handled so casually--each person should have been assigned a post to report to IMMEDIATELY in case of emergency. All of that should have been practiced dockside, before the boat even left port. I'm amazed that there were no fatalities.

I do think the Japanese are skirting the edge of legality with their "research" (esp. when it ends up on school menus after the research is done).

Do remember that the voice-over said that the laws surrounding whaling for the purpose of research dictate that meat be used and not wasted. I'm involved in the commercial end of many "research" fisheries and it's very typical that fish/shellfish/etc. taken under US-regulated scientific research projects enter the market commercially--I'd imagine it's no different internationally.

One last thing to add my big rambling rant--I've been told by many of my more knowledgable fisherman/boating buddies that flying a calico jack flag (like what the Sea Shepherd has) is illegal, as you aren't supposed to display anything on your boat that is related to piracy. A quick internet search didn't pop up anything to support this, but I figured I'd throw that out while I was nitpicking everything else :)

[DropTheSoap]

You may be doing research. From things I've read it still seems that the Japanese version of research seems to primarily be "how many whales can we harvest before we're breaking international law"?

This doesn't mean that I think the Sea Shepherd tactics are correct or will be effective.

[yama]

Do you have any articles from a non-biased source supporting that, DropTheSoap? I know the show said that the Japanese harvest 15 whales annually, the amount allowed under the law. I would think that the show would mention if the Japanese were overfishing, since the show seems to be intended to support the Sea Shepherds' cause.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, just genuinely curious. I think most everybody has agreed that the Sea Shepherds' tactics are pretty questionable, so we're on the same page with the most important part, hee!

Another question out of curiousity--what do all of you think of Animal Planet airing a show with such a radical agenda? I feel like it's a little irresponsible to show something like this, almost like Animal Planet is endorsing the actions (I felt the same way about their choice to show Grizzly Man Diaries, but that's neither here nor there). Any thoughts? Is this doing a good job of portraying each side of the issue? Is it making you see the issue any differently?

[AsIfYouWish]

I know the show said that the Japanese harvest 15 whales annually, the amount allowed under the law. I would think that the show would mention if the Japanese were overfishing, since the show seems to be intended to support the Sea Shepherds' cause.

You terribly misheard or misunderstood what was said.

From an article in the July 2007 issue of Cosmos:

"In the coming 2007/08 season, Japan proposes to take up to 935 minke whales, 50 fin whales and 50 humpback whales. In sum, this will be more than double the total number of whales Japan has previously taken on its annual whaling voyages to the Southern Ocean."

LINK

From the November 18, 2008 edition Australia's Sunshine Coast Daily (newspaper):

"Japan kills about 1,200 whales a year in two hunting expeditions under a scientific program that Tokyo says provides crucial data on populations, feeding habits and distribution of the mammals in the seas near Antarctica and the north Pacific Ocean.

Because of the disruption [to the hunt last year due to Sea Shepherd's activities], the fleet last year returned [in last year's hunt] with 551 minke whales, just more than half of the planned catch."

LINK

[nikitakitty]

Yeah well, and you blow up abortion clincs and abortions aren't performed there anymore/for awhile. Doesn't make it right.

What the Sea Shepherd and Watson are doing ultimately hurts their cause in the greater public mind. And it's not persuasive to the whalers whose lives Watson treats so cavalierly. Not to mention his own crew. I'm all for saving the whales, but not like this. This is barbarism on the other end of the spectrum, where human life becomes a cypher in the name of the cause.

[Hannah8976]

Sending two of his crewmembers to board that Japanese ship went beyond harrassing the whalers. It was sending two people into a situation where they could have been seriously injured or killed

They could have said no. They looked fairly pleased to be on the Japanese ship according to the footage when they first jumped on. I guess we'll see this week what their ordeal was like and whether they regret it.

I think Pottsy was feeling incredibly guilty and remorseful about having damaged the helicopter rotor during the rescue and the captain utilized that remorse to pursuade him to go aboard the Yushin Maru. I thought the manipulation was appalling from someone so senior.

Of course, if anyone knew what they were doing on that ship, a) the zodiac wouldn't have flipped and b) the rescue would have been more organized and c) the rotor wouldn't have been danaged.

[hawgustusgloop]

When I see the "captain" in action (or his inaction) on this show, nothing at all about his behavior says to me, "I love whales, they are such beautiful creatures." He is pure snotty aggression with a little I-can't-be-bothered-to-care-about-these-poor-whale-loving-volunteers-who-have-misplaced-their-trust-in-me thrown into the mix. Also, I am bothered by the whole situation with this crew. Captain Jackass finds people who seemingly have no experience or qualifications to go on an ocean voyage to Antarctica and has them isolated, experiencing these unnecessary daily life-or-death dramas and believing that they are dependent on him for survival...it's kind of like a perfect recipe for Stockholm Syndrome.

The "kidnapping" thing was absurd. That would be like me jumping in the back of a moving pickup truck and then filing kidnapping charges against the driver.

[yama]

Thanks for the links, AsIfYouWish. I'll have to go back and rewatch the first episode, that's where I thought I heard the figure of 15 whales. Maybe they said FIFTY, which would match the figures your article gives for humpbacks and fin whales. I do remember the show gave a number of whales that the Japanese were killing. Whether that was accurate or not is, of course, debatable.

I'm sure there are wrongdoings on both sides. The difference is that the Japanese were smart enough not to invite a camera crew along to document their shady actions.

Edited by yama, Nov 26, 2008 @ 5:44 PM.

[jimena]

Thanks for the links, AsIfYouWish. I'll have to go back and rewatch the first episode, that's where I thought I heard the figure of 15 whales. Maybe they said FIFTY, which would match the figures your article gives for humpbacks and fin whales. I do remember the show gave a number of whales that the Japanese were killing.

From what I remember, they gave the numbers AsIfYouWish quoted.

I like this show. A lot. I think Watson's a bad captain at best, and his crew is not particularly good. And their tactics are dangerous and sometimes silly. But there's a part of me that thinks that we need more aggressive tactics if we're going to try to fight off extinction. I feel the same about global warming. I don't think that simply being a witness like Greenpeace is going to work much.

So yeah. Any show that makes me think about these issue is great in my book.

[AsIfYouWish]

I was talking with someone today who said that they think the show is "glorifying eco-terrorism." I about choked with laughter! "Glorifying??" Not hardly! It's presenting their side of things, but they aren't coming off as anything even remotely close to glorified! Incompetent? Sorry? Inept? More guts than good sense? Oh yeah, and in spades!

It makes me sad though, because their cause is just and their passion and commitment are both enviable and sorely needed in this world. But it's all being horribly abused and misguided by Captain Asshat.