55 replies to this topic

[TWoP Roxy]

From zap2it.com:

Sam's attempt to save a woman under assault pulls him back into his past, where he comes face to face with his mother back in 1973.

[Last Time Lord]

Sam's mother's name is Rose Tyler? Really, show?

This was an interesting episode. Sam's acid trip was funny. Especially Tango!Gene Hunt.

[Bookhouse Boy]

Oh, no "Life on Mars", you had a continuity error tonight !

The first three episodes seemed to suggest it was set in May, 1973. The appearance of Jim Croce (who died in September, 1973) fit right in with that time frame. And then....

Sam and Annie talk about going to see Woody Allen's "Sleeper", which didn't open in theaters until December, 1973. OOPS !

And Sam's sex dream ? Awesome.

[Fabrisse]

I was astonished how neatly plotted it was.

Loved the Jim Croce bit.

Who played Profacci? I keep feeling like I know him.

Keitel really sold me in the scene before going to bust Casso.

[pacejunkie]

That was my favourite ep so far. Not too preachy, well written, interesting story, great use of all the characters. Sam's trip was brilliantly done, and all the freaky touches were fun. Loved Jim Croce. Still can't figure out where they're going with this though, because this time we had several scenes that were outside of Sam's POV so he's not dreaming all this. It exists outside of his sphere of knowledge. That confuses me.

Great development with the Gene Genie though, that final scene burning the money was fantastic. It's the first time I really felt we got some dimension to Gene's character. And I still love Chris and Ray more than life itself. Windy felt very imaginary in this ep, he wakes up and she's just there. Really enjoyed this, I hope the ratings improve.

Who played Profacci? I keep feeling like I know him.

Robert Klein, yeah?

[outforawalk]

Wasn't UKSam given the surname Tyler because of that other Rose Tyler? I confess to giggling every single time they said her name.

[Bookhouse Boy]

Who played Profacci? I keep feeling like I know him.

That was Lenny Venito, who played Christopher's A.A. buddy "Murmur" in "The Sopranos." That's where I know him from, at least. It didn't hurt that there was a scene of them palling around in the station. I guess "Life on Mars" is good for post-Sopranos paychecks for New York's acting community.

Robert Klein, yeah?

That was Casso, the club owner. Porfacci was the guy leaning on Sam's Mom.

Edited by Bookhouse Boy, Oct 30, 2008 @ 10:16 PM.

[AimingforYoko]

"My name is Sa...Sky Walker. My family was Native American." Nice save, Sam.
If this is all in his head, years of therapy is in his future.

[pacejunkie]

That was Casso, the club owner. Porfacci was the guy leaning on Sam's Mom.

Oh, got the names mixed up. I was just so happy to see Robert Klein whom I've long adored.

I think Jason did a great job in this ep acting sufficiently freaked out over everything. I don't know if I could take freaky eps every week but this was a pleasant change from the procedural after school special of last week.

[Tricksterson]

Sam Tyler is officially too good to be true. There isn't a cop in the world that doesn't make compromises with bad guys in order to keep "checks and balances". Admittedly the relationship between Gene and Casso (tip of the hat to Robert Klein for a job well done) had gone too far but still Sam's righteousness is beginning to wear. I'm beginning to wonder if he's the fantasy character.

Loved the fact that, while taking the bribes Hunt apparently never spent the money. It reaffirmed his basic integrity. Unless he was saving it for his retirement?

Am now firmly in "Windy isn't real" camp. Is it me or is a tete a tete between her and Sam always quickly followed with one between him and Annie or vice versa? I'm definitely seeing a Spock?Kirk?McCoy relationship developing here, although neither Spock nor McCoy was ever as yummy as these two ladies.

Edited by TWoP Roxy, Oct 31, 2008 @ 11:07 AM.
UK version discussion does not belong in this thread

[Bookhouse Boy]

Sam Tyler is officially too good to be true.

Well, that's part of the fantasy, right ? As a modern cop, Sam was constantly confounded, but in the black and white world of 1973 New York, he can be that perfect cop.

[Tricksterson]

Btw, what do you make of Windy's always calling Sam "2B"? Obvious Hamlet reference but what does it mean? She is btw, rapidly becoming my favorite character, neck in neck with Gene and not just because she has legs that go on forever (Although that don't hurt).

Edited by Tricksterson, Oct 30, 2008 @ 10:28 PM.

[Last Time Lord]

Sam lives in Apartment 2-B. That's why Windy calls him that.

[Bookhouse Boy]

About Joe Namath, I can believe the other cops not recognizing Jim Croce, but shouldn't they have gone ga-ga over Broadway Joe ? He was the Brett Favre of his time (won the Super Bowl for the Jets in 1969), and New York was his town.

Also, Joe Namath's mother's name ? Rose.

Edited by Bookhouse Boy, Oct 30, 2008 @ 10:43 PM.

[Tricksterson]

Time Lord, I knew that, I just think there's more to it than that.

[Ripley68]

Loving this show - though I kind of wish they would cut back on the trippy stuff. I haven't seen or read anything about the british version, so I'm just going on the current show.

Is Sam's mother alive?

Love that the cops in 1973 aren't perfect and are proud of it.

[mekkio]

Sam's mother's name is Rose Tyler? Really, show?

Heh. I thought of the same thing. But I followed with, A cop who might have traveled back in time or gone to a new dimension? Sam is a missing Time Lord! It all makes sense.

I loved the little Mars Rovers in both dreams. It's those little touches that keep this show humorously surreal.

Jason O'Mara is a really believable crier. When he saw his mom potentially hooking in the club and his eyes watered up, I wanted to hug him.

Was it me or were the non-New York actors trying to put on the fake New York accent extra thick this episode? I wanted to giggle every time Rose or Sam said "Tyler". The accent was way too over the top.

I want a ironed cheese sandwich now.

[KarenC3]

I noticed something when Sam saw the man in the Nirvana t-shirt, it sounded like there was a heart monitor in the backround. I kind of wonder if this shows that Sam is in a coma and that he was beginning to wake up to 2008, and saw someone in a Nirvana t-shirt, but then went back into his coma.


I also noticed that Sam didn't want to meet the younger Sam, even though he did see him before. When he saw the picture tonight of the young Sam, his face was partially covered up. Not sure if this means anything.

[Ginn]

oving this show - though I kind of wish they would cut back on the trippy stuff.

The trippy stuff is what's keeping me interested, though I will say that Keitel's Gene finally started to work for me in that burning scene at the end of tonight's episode. Still, you can't go wrong with a Mars Rover up the nose, I always say.

[HermioneG]

Wheee! This was a good episode. JOM seems to be warming up to the parts.

[Schonwynn]

Sam Tyler is officially too good to be true.

Well, that's part of the fantasy, right ? As a modern cop, Sam was constantly confounded, but in the black and white world of 1973 New York, he can be that perfect cop.

Yes, nicely said, and just what I think. It plays into the idea that this 'reboot' of Sam's life allows him to consciously/deliberately recreate himself as he wishes to be-- no one knows him or his past, has expectations of him he feels constrained by etc.-- and that this is his true/pure self. Add to this the fact that Sam has the advantage of all this outside knowledge of the world he finds himself in, he can to some extent make more 'objective' decisions about his actions.

Overall, I thought this episode was really neatly done, and less 'preachy' than the last. I enjoyed the growth of Gene's character and the reconciliation of Sam and Gene's ultimate goals/morals, a kind of confluence of the two. It was interesting to see that not only did Sam have an impact on Gene, but we also saw Sam behave a little more reckless, like Gene rubbing off on him (ie. roughing up Profacci (?))

... and, I find this idea a lot more interesting in relation to some thoughts I (and others) threw around in the theories thread about major characters representing aspects/elements of Sam's self/psyche (as it relates to the coma and 'it's all in his head' angles). Here we see the avenging/reckless Gene side and the pure self coming to an agreement. Very interesting.

Edited by Schonwynn, Oct 31, 2008 @ 1:57 AM.

[Odac]

I was really starting to worry after the clunky heavy-handedness of much of last week's episode, but tonight this show finally fully lived up to it's potential with a fantastic episode, easily the best one yet. The scenes between Sam & his mother were wonderfully written out, loved the little touches like Sam continually staring over at the toys he no doubt half-remembers (and yet which would probably form the core of the memories of this time that he still has), and even though they kind of telegraphed it right from the start, I was still shocked they actually went there and in this version actually had Sam's mother working at the gangster's club by the end (or just about to work there at the very least). If this turns out to somehow all be actual history that Sam is discovering then he's definitely going to need therapy when it's all over. And if it all turns out to be some kind of fantasy that he's making up, well in that case he clearly has "issues" with his mother that he should have been in therapy for long ago.

As the hour ticked away, I was really worried that they were going to kind of gloss over Gene apparently being a corrupt cop totally in the gangster's pocket, but then in the last 15 minutes they faced it head on, and Kietel finally managed to make the role of Gene Hunt fully & completely his own. Chris & Ray were more in the background this week, but Ray got a nice little showpiece when they made him be the one to discover Sam cuffed to the bed (although I thought there could have been a bit more glee and Schadenfrauden on Imperioli's part upon Ray finding his nemesis in such a revoltin' predicament).

Annie definitely seems to be moving up as a main focus of Sam's romantic interest, which is hardly surprising seeing how good Gretchen Moll is looking out of uniform & in a party dress (or semi-out of uniform in Sam's dreams), while meanwhile I'm sure all the Lisa Bonet haters are pleased to note that Maya didn't even seem to cross Sam's mind at all this week. As for Windy, she's seeming more imaginary & mystical spirit guide-y than ever, and I'm even starting to get some slight vibe that perhaps Sam even knows or at least in the back of his mind suspects that she might only be real to him.

There's just one thing about this show that continues to disappoint in this ep, and unfortunately that's Jason O'Mara. He's continuously improving, he's better here than he's been so far, but even in his best moments confronting the sheer freakyness of dealing face to face with his Mother as he remembers her from his childhood, he still seems to be largely a, I don't know, just a big ol' block. I look at him in those scenes and I still get more of a "wow, just imagine what he must be feeling" vibe than a "wow, look at what he's feeling!" vibe.

Edited by Odac, Oct 31, 2008 @ 2:03 AM.

[Bookhouse Boy]

I noticed something when Sam saw the man in the Nirvana t-shirt, it sounded like there was a heart monitor in the backround. I kind of wonder if this shows that Sam is in a coma and that he was beginning to wake up to 2008, and saw someone in a Nirvana t-shirt, but then went back into his coma.

Heart monitor sounds have appeared in every episode thus far (this was the fourth), along with other hallucinations/visions that suggest that Sam might be lying in a 2008 hospital bed, and having a coma dream. Of course, all that could be a red herring, too.

My thought tonight was that maybe the kid in the Nirvana t-shirt is another person who has been thrust back in time, although that wouldn't explain why he seemed to disappear. Plus, Sam appeared in 1973 in period-appropriate apparel, so anyone else got thrown back in time likely would have too.

Oh, and that wasn't a "Smells Like Teen Spirit" t-shirt... it was the cover of "Nevermind," the Nirvana album that SLTS is on.

[Odac]

Hmm..., would it even be likely for a young hip music fan of today, 2008, to be wearing a Nirvana T shirt? is the band still "hip" like that, maybe in an old-school, Classic Rock kind of way? (I honestly don't know, the last time I was hip was when Nevermind was a brand new album and I was rockin' out to it on my cassette Walkman.) If not, maybe that was a subliminal image of someone else from a different time period, like for instance way back when I was cool, also trapped in this world.

"My name is Sa...Sky Walker. My family was Native American." Nice save, Sam.

At least for the next four years, but then when your little 8-year old self is off seeing Star Wars 20 times in a row and begging his mother for a Luke Skywalker action figure for Christmas, she's going to be feeling a little confused.

Bookhouse Boy
About Joe Namath, I can believe the other cops not recognizing Jim Croce, but shouldn't they have gone ga-ga over Broadway Joe ? He was the Brett Favre of his time (won the Super Bowl for the Jets in 1969), and New York was his town.

Well the cops seemed to be pretty much regulars at the place (even Annie who's so eager for Sam to put its gangster owner away for murder), if this place is sort of a pre-Studio 54 celebrity Hot Spot, maybe Namath's a regular there too and all the cops are used to seeing him there and perhaps even helping to make sure he enjoys himself in peace without some tourist going all ga-ga over him. New York (at least in the era I'm familiar with) is kind of a "cool" town for celebrities in that at least the actual native New Yorkers are somewhat used to having famous people living among them and spotting them walking in the park & such, and they often don't tend to totally freak out over them, or at least not as much as the tourists from Idaho or even the God-dam Bridge & Tunnelers (like me).

I noticed it was a little Black girl singing the same Nursery Rhyme that Sam remembers his mother singing to him, and who leads him to his mother when he chases after her. Just another girl from his old neighborhood who's familiar with the rhyme because it was some sort of local neighborhood thing? Or was this the same girl that was in the picture that Sam found in his old shoebox hiding place last week? If so, what the hell does that mean?

And yeah, I couldn't help but freak out just a little bit whenever Sam's Mother was referred to as "Rose Tyler", especially given the serious Billie Piper jones I have that's probably a bit inappropriate for someone old enough to have last been hip when Nirvana were at the top of the charts. Just another little inside joke the producers like to tease us with, much like playing "Bang A Gong (Get It On)" immediately after Sam meets Jim Croce.

[Bookhouse Boy]

Hmm..., would it even be likely for a young hip music fan of today, 2008, to be wearing a Nirvana T shirt? is the band still "hip" like that, maybe in an old-school, Classic Rock kind of way? (I honestly don't know, the last time I was hip was when Nevermind was a brand new album and I was rockin' out to it on my cassette Walkman.) If not, maybe that was a subliminal image of someone else from a different time period, like for instance way back when I was cool, also trapped in this world.

Yes, this is what I was getting at, but forgot to actually say. It seemed strange to me to that he was wearing a Nirvana shirt, so I meant to say that I thought he might be someone from say, 1993, who was stuck in 1973 like Sam of 2008 was.

[KarenC3]

I didn't think of the possibility of it being someone from 1993. But I think it may be possible the writers may have chose Nirvana because the word had such a different meaning in the 70's, leading to the dialog between Annie and Sam.

Edited by KarenC3, Oct 31, 2008 @ 6:34 AM.

[pacejunkie]

mekkio
Jason O'Mara is a really believable crier. When he saw his mom potentially hooking in the club and his eyes watered up, I wanted to hug him.

I actually thought that looked over the top and fake. He's not very subtle and the way it cut to his face with the wet eyes I imagined the director yelled cut, a makeup person ran in and put drops in his eyes, Jason put on the hounddog face and then they resumed rolling. It didn't look real to me.

Was it me or were the non-New York actors trying to put on the fake New York accent extra thick this episode? I wanted to giggle every time Rose or Sam said "Tyler". The accent was way too over the top.

Now this is funny because I again thought the opposite here. This was the first time I noticed anyone other than Ray actually sounding like they were from New York and I thought it was about time. Unfortunately for New Yorkers, it wasn't over the top.

Odac
while meanwhile I'm sure all the Lisa Bonet haters are pleased to note that Maya didn't even seem to cross Sam's mind at all this week.

I noticed that too, I thought it was very interesting that all the women he imagined boinking in his hallucination, from Windy to Annie to his freaking mother, he didn't imagine Maya. I just expected they would do that and was surprised they didn't. I Wonder if it shows he's breaking away from her, but then he did tell Adrian that he was seeing someone who was far away so she was definitely on his mind. Probably just a production reason why they didn't bother to bring her back for one scene.

Bookhouse Boy
Oh, and that wasn't a "Smells Like Teen Spirit" t-shirt... it was the cover of "Nevermind," the Nirvana album that SLTS is on.

And see, they missed the golden opportunity for a classic Who's on First exchange:

Annie: Sam, what are you looking at?
Sam: Nevermind.
Annie: You don't want to tell me?
Sam: I said Nevermind.
Annie: Well fine, but you don't have to be rude about it.

Odac
I noticed it was a little Black girl singing the same Nursery Rhyme that Sam remembers his mother singing to him, and who leads him to his mother when he chases after her. Just another girl from his old neighborhood who's familiar with the rhyme because it was some sort of local neighborhood thing? Or was this the same girl that was in the picture that Sam found in his old shoebox hiding place last week? If so, what the hell does that mean?

I also thought she was the girl from the photo and she also looked like the girl that is found dead in the previews for next week. So yes, I think they've been hinting at her all along, perhaps as only a clue to the future crime or maybe there will be some personal connection.

Edited by pacejunkie, Oct 31, 2008 @ 6:54 AM.

[Bookhouse Boy]

I also thought she was the girl from the photo and she also looked like the girl that is found dead in the previews for next week. So yes, I think they've been hinting at her all along, perhaps as only a clue to the future crime or maybe there will be some personal connection.

I'm not sold on the concept of Windy-as-imagination thing yet, but I do think it's interesting that there's this trend of female characters being the ones that Sam relates to, has these deep conversations with. So far, we have: Windy, Annie, Rose, Adrian. So, if this is all in Sam's mind, maybe female characters represent some sort of psychological counterpoint to his musings. Sam's also had interesting conversations with male characters (the redhead kid in the pilot, the kid from last week, and Gene), so this might be a thin theory.

Another possibility is that the little black girl singing that song... the young Maya ? Lisa Bonet would have been 6 in 1973, just about right, yes ?

[pacejunkie]

Another possibility is that the little black girl singing that song... the young Maya ? Lisa Bonet would have been 6 in 1973, just about right, yes ?

That was the speculation when the photo first appeared, but since she turns up dead in the preview, I'm guessing no.

[Blazemom]

Hmm..., would it even be likely for a young hip music fan of today, 2008, to be wearing a Nirvana T shirt? is the band still "hip" like that, maybe in an old-school, Classic Rock kind of way?

My 26-yr old son has always been a classic rock fan and loves wearing the old t-shirts, esp Jimi Hendrix & Nirvana!