As Election Day nears, senatorial candidate Patrick insists to a disapproving Tripp that he wants to take his relationship public with his transgendered mistress, Carmelita. Meanwhile Ellen's brother, Chase, shows up and demands from Patrick the truth about his sister's death. In other developments, Nick and Lisa are in couples therapy; Jeremy asks Nola to ease Letitia's house arrest so she can go to Patrick's election night party; Brian Jr. goes missing, and, at Karen's request, Nick talks to Simon about his real motive for wanting to marry her.
2-4: "The Silence" 2008.10.29 (recap)
Started by
TWoP Mars
, Oct 29 2008 07:37 PM
59 replies to this topic
#1
Posted Oct 29, 2008 @ 7:37 PM
From ABCMediaNet.com:
#2
Posted Oct 29, 2008 @ 10:08 PM
Squee! What was with the weird look on Nick's face after Lisa denied Jeremy's phone call? Could Nick have hit the button, wondering if Lisa would take the call? I'm still trying to gauge Nick's reaction to the Jeremy/Nola thing.
Nick has become so mysterious.
And Simon. He told Nick the truth, knowing that he would tell Karen THAT truth, and that Karen would run straight into his arms? I knew this too. I knew Karen would have that reaction, and I guess it's all apart of running a wedge further between Karen/Nick, so that Simon can be THE MAN in her life, and therefore control what she has. But how come Karen's blind to this? She's so eager to be in love that she's totally let her guard down. I don't GET it.
Nick has become so mysterious.
And Simon. He told Nick the truth, knowing that he would tell Karen THAT truth, and that Karen would run straight into his arms? I knew this too. I knew Karen would have that reaction, and I guess it's all apart of running a wedge further between Karen/Nick, so that Simon can be THE MAN in her life, and therefore control what she has. But how come Karen's blind to this? She's so eager to be in love that she's totally let her guard down. I don't GET it.
#3
Posted Oct 29, 2008 @ 10:12 PM
Nick was a jackass to Lisa. He's allowed to mingle with the Darlings whenever he chooses, yet he FORBIDS Lisa from having Jeremy as a silent partner. He knows how much owning a gallery in a prestigious area means to Lisa, but he's too selfish to let Lisa accomplish her goal.
Nola is boring, so it's great that she had little screentime. She drags Jeremy down.
On the other hand, Lisa and Jeremy are great together. They seem to understand each other on a level that they don't have with Nick and Nola, respectively. Also, their chemistry is better than Lisa/Nick and Jeremy/Nola.
Karen is kooky, and Brian Jr. is adorable.
Nola is boring, so it's great that she had little screentime. She drags Jeremy down.
On the other hand, Lisa and Jeremy are great together. They seem to understand each other on a level that they don't have with Nick and Nola, respectively. Also, their chemistry is better than Lisa/Nick and Jeremy/Nola.
Karen is kooky, and Brian Jr. is adorable.
#4
Posted Oct 29, 2008 @ 10:16 PM
Same here. I wanted Karen to be playing Simon. I miss season one Karen.But how come Karen's blind to this? She's so eager to be in love that she's totally let her guard down. I don't GET it.
Brian and Brian Jr. are hilarious. Brian's description of Brian Jr. was a LOL moment for me. "He's four feet tall and has a face like a smurf."
#5
Posted Oct 29, 2008 @ 10:20 PM
Squee! What was with the weird look on Nick's face after Lisa denied Jeremy's phone call? Could Nick have hit the button, wondering if Lisa would take the call? I'm still trying to gauge Nick's reaction to the Jeremy/Nola thing.
Interesting thought...or did Nick just suspect that Lisa was hiding something but is not sure what it is?
#6
Posted Oct 29, 2008 @ 10:20 PM
Nick was a jackass to Lisa. He's allowed to mingle with the Darlings whenever he chooses, yet he FORBIDS Lisa from having Jeremy as a silent partner.
On the other hand, Lisa and Jeremy are great together. They seem to understand each other on a level that they don't have with Nick and Nola, respectively. Also, their chemistry is better than Lisa/Nick and Jeremy/Nola.
Karen is kooky, and Brian Jr. is adorable.
ITA to your whole post! I like Lisa although I felt she was signing away her soul. Jeremy is sweet, charming and sincere, but he's still a Darling who doesn't see boundaries. It's not just about the money, but being a 'silent' partner is just not part of their genes.
Then again, I've never understood why we should be connected to Lisa and Nick's marriage - he treats her like crap. If we had time with them while they were happy, and a deeply intimate couple - I might feel worse. I just want Lisa to dump his butt. He looks at her like he can't stand her.
Brian Jr. is so freaking cute. "He's four foot tall with a face like a smurf". Why is Brian so damn endearing even though he's incredibly rude?
Karen continues being pathetic and Simon's master plan is pretty lame but the show seems to want us to believe he's Machiavelli reincarnated. It's not hard to get Karen to marry you dude, you're going to be her fifth husband!
#7
Posted Oct 29, 2008 @ 10:25 PM
I'm glad Jeremy used what's going on between him and Nola as a way to get his mom something she wanted. Jeremy's going with the theme, as everyone is just a tad bit darker this season (some more than others).
I thought Nick was a TOTAL jerk to Lisa as well, but, meh, he saw Jeremy and her KISSING KISSING-- I forgive him if he doesn't want them to leap into a partnership (with the dealership), and them to be spending more time with one another and with Lisa not being able to control her "urges". lol. Although, if you gotta worry about who your significant other is really hanging out with, and whether they can keep their mouths (or whatever) to themselves....well it's good they're seeing a marriage counsellor.
Brian Jr. is so very wise, and a total sweetheart.
I naively STILL want Karen to be playing Simon, but at this point is it even a possibility? It's true that she probably did go in with that intent (as seemed implied numerous times before, but also in this episode when she's talking to Tripp), but she is now emotionally involved. What's so great about Simon Elder? Because he is a strong, successful man? Is it because she SHOULDN'T be with him? Or it because of his status, and what it does for her ego, that he pats her, and says SHE'S smart? Even though he doesn't really know her anyway, imo. I want Karen to wise up, and TOTALLY get Simon. Oh, ya, and interesting that he is selling that gas substitue he had mentioned to Karen... I thought that was bull. Now I'm confused all over again.
ETA:
See, I love PK. First season he was shocked when a "normal" guy would be shocked, suspicious... and all the like... But this season it's different. He's harder to read, and that line gets blurred a little more (for Nick-- between good and bad/right and wrong). I wonder if Nick's beginning to suspect everybody. All the Darlings lie, it's having a negative affect on poor Nick. His moral compass is a LITTLE jadded, not exactly north anymore.
I thought Nick was a TOTAL jerk to Lisa as well, but, meh, he saw Jeremy and her KISSING KISSING-- I forgive him if he doesn't want them to leap into a partnership (with the dealership), and them to be spending more time with one another and with Lisa not being able to control her "urges". lol. Although, if you gotta worry about who your significant other is really hanging out with, and whether they can keep their mouths (or whatever) to themselves....well it's good they're seeing a marriage counsellor.
Brian Jr. is so very wise, and a total sweetheart.
I naively STILL want Karen to be playing Simon, but at this point is it even a possibility? It's true that she probably did go in with that intent (as seemed implied numerous times before, but also in this episode when she's talking to Tripp), but she is now emotionally involved. What's so great about Simon Elder? Because he is a strong, successful man? Is it because she SHOULDN'T be with him? Or it because of his status, and what it does for her ego, that he pats her, and says SHE'S smart? Even though he doesn't really know her anyway, imo. I want Karen to wise up, and TOTALLY get Simon. Oh, ya, and interesting that he is selling that gas substitue he had mentioned to Karen... I thought that was bull. Now I'm confused all over again.
ETA:
Interesting thought...or did Nick just suspect that Lisa was hiding something but is not sure what it is?
See, I love PK. First season he was shocked when a "normal" guy would be shocked, suspicious... and all the like... But this season it's different. He's harder to read, and that line gets blurred a little more (for Nick-- between good and bad/right and wrong). I wonder if Nick's beginning to suspect everybody. All the Darlings lie, it's having a negative affect on poor Nick. His moral compass is a LITTLE jadded, not exactly north anymore.
Edited by FaithW, Oct 29, 2008 @ 10:33 PM.
#8
Posted Oct 29, 2008 @ 10:42 PM
Nick was such a dick to Lisa tonight. I hated that Lisa is going to go behind his back like this. But I feel like Nick drove her to it. So she can't have anything to do with Jeremy? Really Nick? What about last season when Karen was throwing herself at Nick every two seconds and Lisa just had to suck it up and deal with it? Or be told that she was crazy? Hell she even tried to get him on Thanksgiving and recruited her mother to help! But Lisa can't go into business with Jeremy? STFU Nick.
I love that Karen is getting played by Simon. It's a little sad considering how smart she was last season but still very satisfying.
I love that Karen is getting played by Simon. It's a little sad considering how smart she was last season but still very satisfying.
#9
Posted Oct 29, 2008 @ 11:00 PM
Other notable moments - that scene in the hospital when Patrick said 'I'll take less Patrick with me to Washington and more Tripp". Nick: "I know your father will love that". And Patrick: "I know he won't". So sad, a bit tragic in a very real way - I thought that moment really transcended a soapy show.
And Chase. I liked that there was a smart character on the show but when he said "Don't you guys know when you've won?" was so heartbreaking. For the first time on the show, even more than Lisa always been left behind, I saw how the normal person, a proxy for the rest of us, can be so easily dismissed and humiliated by the super wealthy. The guy does need money because of his family; but he also knows the Darlings are responsible in some direct or indirect way for his sister's death and he doesn't have a choice. I suppose he does and he can stand on principle and be destroyed, but is that really a choice?
When he turned his head before asking if they know where to send the check; I felt his pain and humiliation. How Nick can hold his head up after that is beyond me.
And Chase. I liked that there was a smart character on the show but when he said "Don't you guys know when you've won?" was so heartbreaking. For the first time on the show, even more than Lisa always been left behind, I saw how the normal person, a proxy for the rest of us, can be so easily dismissed and humiliated by the super wealthy. The guy does need money because of his family; but he also knows the Darlings are responsible in some direct or indirect way for his sister's death and he doesn't have a choice. I suppose he does and he can stand on principle and be destroyed, but is that really a choice?
When he turned his head before asking if they know where to send the check; I felt his pain and humiliation. How Nick can hold his head up after that is beyond me.
Edited by MooshyMooshy, Oct 29, 2008 @ 11:01 PM.
#10
Posted Oct 29, 2008 @ 11:30 PM
This season has just shit all over the happy memories I had of season one. Nick acted like a complete asshole to Lisa. 'The answer is no'? I couldn't believe Lisa would take that crap from her husband. No man should ever speak to his wife in that way or in that tone. Not outside of 1960 anyway. I've always been 'meh' on Nick, but now I'm actively disliking him.
I actually begged the tv when Karen went back to Simon. I told the tv that Karen was coming back to dump him. Sadly, my tv did not listen to me. This is completely out of character for Karen. She always plays the 'dumb blonde', but she's never been dumb. There's always been an edge to her. If that edge isn't there... there's nothing left to that character. I too hold out hope that she's playing Simon some how.
Watching anything with Tripp was almost painful because his character has lost so much nuance from last season. Can't stand Paddy so whatever. But Carmelita looked great in that gorgeous blue dress! Girl's got style!
I actually begged the tv when Karen went back to Simon. I told the tv that Karen was coming back to dump him. Sadly, my tv did not listen to me. This is completely out of character for Karen. She always plays the 'dumb blonde', but she's never been dumb. There's always been an edge to her. If that edge isn't there... there's nothing left to that character. I too hold out hope that she's playing Simon some how.
Seriously! My favorite line of the night (and kinda true! He Does have a face like a really cute smurf!). I thought it was cute that Brian Jr. called Nick.Brian Jr. is so freaking cute. "He's four foot tall with a face like a smurf". Why is Brian so damn endearing even though he's incredibly rude?
Watching anything with Tripp was almost painful because his character has lost so much nuance from last season. Can't stand Paddy so whatever. But Carmelita looked great in that gorgeous blue dress! Girl's got style!
#11
Posted Oct 29, 2008 @ 11:52 PM
Oh Karen, Karen, Karen, you know you're getting played and yet you still went all in. I guess that's a brave thing to do but I don't know, all I wanted to do was reach into my TV and smack her. Simon's mind fuck is down right creepy and I sort of understand his twisted logic...I just have to figure out what it is. Nola finally making herself useful is a plus for me but not feeling Jeremy and her together.
Poor Lisa, poor Nick. Neither have any idea how to be honest with each other and both continue to lie at the end. I don't blame Nick for refusing Jeremy as a silent partner, I mean he did see his wife kissing him and I understand Lisa's position as well. Her marriage is falling apart and all she wants to do is open a gallery to keep herself occupied so that she wouldn't have to deal with her crappy marriage. I don't see a right or wrong side here although I can see Nick being increasingly annoyed with Lisa everytime he sees her.
Ellen's brother's scene was a reality check, do the right thing or take the money. It's a lose/lose situation. Going public will only get him so far but the trial will drag on and on and he would have been bankrupt. Taking the money was the only choice for him and his family. It's sad and unfortunate but all too true.
I feel like this is not the last time we'll see Candis Kane. I'm sure she'll pop up somewhere down the road. I felt a bit bad for Paddy at the end, a successful politician living in the shadows of his father and even on his big day, his father still manage to out do him.
ETA:
Poor Lisa, poor Nick. Neither have any idea how to be honest with each other and both continue to lie at the end. I don't blame Nick for refusing Jeremy as a silent partner, I mean he did see his wife kissing him and I understand Lisa's position as well. Her marriage is falling apart and all she wants to do is open a gallery to keep herself occupied so that she wouldn't have to deal with her crappy marriage. I don't see a right or wrong side here although I can see Nick being increasingly annoyed with Lisa everytime he sees her.
Ellen's brother's scene was a reality check, do the right thing or take the money. It's a lose/lose situation. Going public will only get him so far but the trial will drag on and on and he would have been bankrupt. Taking the money was the only choice for him and his family. It's sad and unfortunate but all too true.
I feel like this is not the last time we'll see Candis Kane. I'm sure she'll pop up somewhere down the road. I felt a bit bad for Paddy at the end, a successful politician living in the shadows of his father and even on his big day, his father still manage to out do him.
ETA:
I love that line, especially a second later, Andrea gives him the WTF face then proceeds to give the correct height.Brian Jr. is so freaking cute. "He's four foot tall with a face like a smurf".
Edited by McGuilty, Oct 29, 2008 @ 11:58 PM.
#12
Posted Oct 30, 2008 @ 12:26 AM
I liked the theme of the episode as far as "silence" goes. Chase and Patrick threaten to go public. Tripp thinks the best way to manipulate a situation or a person is be honest. Tripp offers to bring Chase "closer" into the family by bribing him, rather than pushing him away. Tripp tells Carmelita everything, thus pushing her out of the picture. Simon is completely honest with Nick, and it makes it easier for him to manipulate Karen. (Totally agree with everyone else who doesn't like Karen so far this season. I hope at some point she comes back with a vengeance.)
Also liked seeing Jeremy manipulate Nola. Did anyone else think it's odd that he told his mother that he might be able to get her out for the party? She didn't really question that. Is Leticia encouraging Jeremy to sleep with Nola like Tripp encouraged Karen to go after Simon?
Also liked seeing Jeremy manipulate Nola. Did anyone else think it's odd that he told his mother that he might be able to get her out for the party? She didn't really question that. Is Leticia encouraging Jeremy to sleep with Nola like Tripp encouraged Karen to go after Simon?
#13
Posted Oct 30, 2008 @ 5:52 AM
Other notable moments - that scene in the hospital when Patrick said 'I'll take less Patrick with me to Washington and more Tripp". Nick: "I know your father will love that". And Patrick: "I know he won't". So sad, a bit tragic in a very real way - I thought that moment really transcended a soapy show.
I must be the densest person on earth, so can someone explain to me what Patrick meant when he said this? I know is was something that will come back to bite someone, I just didn't get it.
On the other hand, I am completely dismayed over Nick and Lisa's disintegrating relationship. That relationship was the ONE solid thing that I loved from last season. The fact that the relationship is headed down tubes is so sad.
But that being said, I do like Jeremy and Lisa together.
#14
Posted Oct 30, 2008 @ 6:55 AM
Watching anything with Tripp was almost painful because his character has lost so much nuance from last season.
I used to LOVE Tripp and was mesmerized every single time he was on the screen with ANY character. Last season I could forgive anything he did, because he seemed to act out of true love and affection for his family. Now I find him mean spirited and heartless. This season he has no charm or wit and very little affection for anyone.
The change in his character has really caused me to become disenchanted with the show. It seems to lack the heart and humor it had last season and as much as I hate it, I just don't love this show like I did.
#15
Posted Oct 30, 2008 @ 8:06 AM
Did anyone else think it's odd that he told his mother that he might be able to get her out for the party? She didn't really question that.
Frankly, Leticia seemed drunk throughout the episode. Was that just me? I didn't think she was in much of a position to question anything.
I really hope that Karen has some gameplay of her own for Simon, but somehow I doubt it. The scene at Tripp's bedside seemed to confirm that, which is too bad. She had more sass last season.
"He has a face like a Smurf"! Hee.
#16
Posted Oct 30, 2008 @ 8:13 AM
Regarding to Lisa/Jeremy-- Nick saw them make out, make out. Although Karen hadn't silenced her feelings about Nick, I feel that it was pretty one sided. We can speculate that Nick never got over Karen, or there's still something there for his first love, but as far as we knew, Nick didn't have feelings for her. Lisa was OBVIOUSLY kissing Jeremy back. That's why Nick said no. It wasn't hyprocritical. I wish they were dealing in marriage counselling about that kiss between Lisa/Jeremy, because Nick obviously doesn't see the kiss as nothing. Inevitably, he will find out about the "silent" partner in Jeremy (nothing Jeremy does is silent), and be more mad that she lied about it. It's like forshadowing for her signing divorce papers!
Maybe Tripp is more wooden this season, because he feels he has to be. Last season he had so much heart, but this season, he has so much to lose. If Tripp didn't kill Dutch (and I don't honestly think he did, at least the Tripp we knew in season one didn't...), maybe part of him suspects that Leticia did. He's got Ellen's brother on his back, which is a direct threat to the family, the whole thing with Patrick, the late Ellen, and Carmelita. It's so much stress! Plus he has to worry about Simon trying to take over the company.
I think it's stupid that Simon is the big bad in this situation, and I want SOMEONE to take him down. Maybe Tripp will redeem himself by SAVING his daughter from making this clown of a man husband number 5. I sure hope so!
Maybe Tripp is more wooden this season, because he feels he has to be. Last season he had so much heart, but this season, he has so much to lose. If Tripp didn't kill Dutch (and I don't honestly think he did, at least the Tripp we knew in season one didn't...), maybe part of him suspects that Leticia did. He's got Ellen's brother on his back, which is a direct threat to the family, the whole thing with Patrick, the late Ellen, and Carmelita. It's so much stress! Plus he has to worry about Simon trying to take over the company.
I think it's stupid that Simon is the big bad in this situation, and I want SOMEONE to take him down. Maybe Tripp will redeem himself by SAVING his daughter from making this clown of a man husband number 5. I sure hope so!
#17
Posted Oct 30, 2008 @ 8:17 AM
Nick was a jerk to Lisa, I got his POV considering he did catch her making out with Jeremy but he reacted really like an ass. I am surprised Lisa took that. While Karen has shown up at Nick's office naked, Nick hasn't acted on it. Unlike Lisa who was making out with Jeremy willingly.
I think Lisa's hypocritical, she attacks the Darlings every chance she gets to Nick. Then turns around and takes the Darlings money for her own personal use and then lies about it. At least Nick is up front about the Darlings business he keeps getting phone calls to deal with.
Nick isn't lying to her face which is what Lisa's doing.
Karen, I really hope she has a plan. I hate Simon and his playing of her, Nick was a dumbass to fall right into Simon's trap. I think Simon played on Nick's personal feelings for Karen knowing Nick would react to prevent her from marrying her first without thinking of the ulterior motives for Simon telling him the truth. Tripp will believe Nick, so they must come up with some plan of attack against Simon.
On the other hand, considering how long Karen's recent marriage worked out may be getting Simon gone is quickest through marrying Karen. lol
I think Lisa's hypocritical, she attacks the Darlings every chance she gets to Nick. Then turns around and takes the Darlings money for her own personal use and then lies about it. At least Nick is up front about the Darlings business he keeps getting phone calls to deal with.
Nick isn't lying to her face which is what Lisa's doing.
Karen, I really hope she has a plan. I hate Simon and his playing of her, Nick was a dumbass to fall right into Simon's trap. I think Simon played on Nick's personal feelings for Karen knowing Nick would react to prevent her from marrying her first without thinking of the ulterior motives for Simon telling him the truth. Tripp will believe Nick, so they must come up with some plan of attack against Simon.
On the other hand, considering how long Karen's recent marriage worked out may be getting Simon gone is quickest through marrying Karen. lol
Edited by Pixels, Oct 30, 2008 @ 8:19 AM.
#18
Posted Oct 30, 2008 @ 8:35 AM
On the other hand, considering how long Karen's recent marriage worked out may be getting Simon gone is quickest through marrying Karen. lol
Hee! This is true. But Simon would find a way to get the business as part of the annulment, or something. UGH. I just want him out, and I want the Darlings to come out on top. Look at all the crap they've been facing? They need a triumph.
What I don't get is why Lisa didn't consider throwing around the Darling name in the first place. I thought it was contrived that she met Jeremy later, and he urged her to let him sign as a silent partner. It was all for sake of this lie (with the show), and Lisa could have just told the truth, about the relationships with the Darlings, and probably could have secured the place from the name drop alone. I kept wondering why she didn't, it didn't make sense. I realize that in the beginning she wanted to make it herself-- but with how angry she is at Nick, and the Darlings for "stealing" Nick away-- why wouldn't she use their name to get what she wanted? Maybe I'm a worse person, but it beats lying to your husband. I wouldn't have signed a paper with Jeremy, especially not in the streets-- the fact that Lisa didn't do it as a vindictive thing (against Nick's "no"), doesn't matter at all. Pretty soon, forshadowing, Lisa's business will be all over the streets.
#19
Posted Oct 30, 2008 @ 8:42 AM
It was very disturbing that nobody seemed to be bothered by Brian Jr.’s disappearance except his parents. And while I’m on the subject of the little squirt...while I agree that he’s adorable and polite and sweet, he’s also quite manipulative for a kid. It’s funny that he’s not really related to Tripp, because they both know how to get what they want.
Patrick is so thick. It’s like after getting it pounded into his head a hundred times, he finally gets how shrewd and manipulative Tripp is. Nick spoke the truth - it was more of a victory for Tripp than it was for Patrick.
I am really upset that Karen seems to be in way over her head. When she went crying and begging to Simon like he predicted, I wanted to throw up.
Patrick is so thick. It’s like after getting it pounded into his head a hundred times, he finally gets how shrewd and manipulative Tripp is. Nick spoke the truth - it was more of a victory for Tripp than it was for Patrick.
I am really upset that Karen seems to be in way over her head. When she went crying and begging to Simon like he predicted, I wanted to throw up.
It wasn’t just you - I was going to write the exact same thing. Maybe she’s drinking more because of her house arrest, and the stress of the election?Frankly, Leticia seemed drunk throughout the episode. Was that just me? I didn't think she was in much of a position to question anything.Did anyone else think it's odd that he told his mother that he might be able to get her out for the party? She didn't really question that.
#20
Posted Oct 30, 2008 @ 8:47 AM
I thought it was a mediocre episode at best. The problem was that is was just so utterly predictable. I was waiting for some twist that would throw things a bit, but it played out exactly like one would expect. Simon’s manipulation of Karen, Tripp’s manipulation of Carmelita, and the Nick/Lisa/Jeremy storyline were all just so predictable. I thought for a moment it would end with a twist when Karen said “I want to say yes” thinking she might say “but then I came to my senses” or something, but nope; she fell for it anyway. Very disappointing episode.
The only good storyline was the Brian/Brian Jr. storyline. Brian's description of Jr. and then Andrea's correct description was great, and their argument as Nick was walking away was great.
The only good storyline was the Brian/Brian Jr. storyline. Brian's description of Jr. and then Andrea's correct description was great, and their argument as Nick was walking away was great.
#21
Posted Oct 30, 2008 @ 9:28 AM
I must be even more naïve than you, because I just don't buy that Karen is *that* stupid. (Of course, I can't believe Lisa's as stupid as she's being about the gallery, either, so what do I know?) I keep wondering if Karen reached a turning point after her mother told her that she had to stop looking for her father's help with making decisions. I still think Simon Elder is stupid and dull, though. I really want Karen to hand him his ass on a plate, but at this point it's looking vanishingly unlikely.I naively STILL want Karen to be playing Simon, but at this point is it even a possibility? It's true that she probably did go in with that intent (as seemed implied numerous times before, but also in this episode when she's talking to Tripp), but she is now emotionally involved.
Nick needs to stop watching Mad Men, clearly. But the one who's really annoying me is Patrick. He never learns, and he's kind of a whiner. Carmelita's clearly the only person of any principle in the whole connection. Poor Carmelita should be running in the other direction. (Am I the only one who thinks that Candis Cayne and Jill Clayburgh look somewhat alike from a certain angle? Maybe it's just the blonde, high cheekboned, strong jaw thing.)
"Face like a Smurf" - hee! As angry as Nick was making me this episode, I did get a little "Aw!" from Nick's obvious feeling for his nephew's situation. (Who doesn't love Gustav?)
Edited by Sandman, Oct 30, 2008 @ 11:35 AM.
#22
Posted Oct 30, 2008 @ 9:30 AM
I thought that the scene with Karen, Tripp,and Leticia was very well done. Leticia's comment that Tripp won't always be there was very touching. I wonder if that was part of what caused Karen to accept Simon's proposal.
I really liked the "I am taking bit of Tripp with me" line. I take that to mean that Patrick has learned a few lessons on manipulting people and doing whatever it takes to get what he wants. Since Patrick and Tripp seem to be at odds as to what is wanted, Tripp is not going to be happy with the end result. Tripp wants Patrick in DC to gain power and probably to manipulate the system to make life better for the family. think Joseph Kennedy. Patrick had commented that he was going to lead with his heart when he gets to DC. I wonder if Patrick is going to become more of a Senator Robert Kennedy, practicle and manipulative but with an agenda to make things better for people with less.
The Brian Jr. storyline continues to be great. I love how Brian continually refers to his son using references from 80's pop culture. I laughed when Brian Jr (really, Gustov was so much easier) called Nick for help. I enjoyed how Nick managed to work in his ownfrustration and pain from his childhood into forcing a solution between Brian and Andrea (Ithink. I still don't knowher name, which is sad). Brian Jr's manipulative abilities are not a surprise to me. 1) His Grandmother is pretty good at manipulation 2) all kids are amazing manipulators. I have been very impressed at how my friends kids and how my nieces and nephews manipulate their parents. Brian Jr takes it up a notch but it is not all that faro ff from what a smart kid can accomplish when they decide to manipulate and adult.
I want to know what Nick is going to do with the info he has regrading Brian's girlfriend.
I really liked the "I am taking bit of Tripp with me" line. I take that to mean that Patrick has learned a few lessons on manipulting people and doing whatever it takes to get what he wants. Since Patrick and Tripp seem to be at odds as to what is wanted, Tripp is not going to be happy with the end result. Tripp wants Patrick in DC to gain power and probably to manipulate the system to make life better for the family. think Joseph Kennedy. Patrick had commented that he was going to lead with his heart when he gets to DC. I wonder if Patrick is going to become more of a Senator Robert Kennedy, practicle and manipulative but with an agenda to make things better for people with less.
The Brian Jr. storyline continues to be great. I love how Brian continually refers to his son using references from 80's pop culture. I laughed when Brian Jr (really, Gustov was so much easier) called Nick for help. I enjoyed how Nick managed to work in his ownfrustration and pain from his childhood into forcing a solution between Brian and Andrea (Ithink. I still don't knowher name, which is sad). Brian Jr's manipulative abilities are not a surprise to me. 1) His Grandmother is pretty good at manipulation 2) all kids are amazing manipulators. I have been very impressed at how my friends kids and how my nieces and nephews manipulate their parents. Brian Jr takes it up a notch but it is not all that faro ff from what a smart kid can accomplish when they decide to manipulate and adult.
I want to know what Nick is going to do with the info he has regrading Brian's girlfriend.
#23
Posted Oct 30, 2008 @ 10:11 AM
I'm really liking this show it's such a crazy interesting show that I should've watched last season but didn't
I am happy for Patty for winning the election so congrat's to him.
I don't really like Lisa that much but lying about not seeing Jeremy was wrong. She should've told Nick that she did see him and he did pay to get her a place for her artwork. But she wasn't alone there he lyed to her too. Anyway, I do hope they are okay with their marriage cause they seem like the couple who would keep their relationship together.
I am happy for Patty for winning the election so congrat's to him.
I don't really like Lisa that much but lying about not seeing Jeremy was wrong. She should've told Nick that she did see him and he did pay to get her a place for her artwork. But she wasn't alone there he lyed to her too. Anyway, I do hope they are okay with their marriage cause they seem like the couple who would keep their relationship together.
#24
Posted Oct 30, 2008 @ 10:25 AM
What I don't get is why Lisa didn't consider throwing around the Darling name in the first place. I thought it was contrived that she met Jeremy later, and he urged her to let him sign as a silent partner. It was all for sake of this lie (with the show), and Lisa could have just told the truth, about the relationships with the Darlings, and probably could have secured the place from the name drop alone. I kept wondering why she didn't, it didn't make sense. I realize that in the beginning she wanted to make it herself-- but with how angry she is at Nick, and the Darlings for "stealing" Nick away-- why wouldn't she use their name to get what she wanted? Maybe I'm a worse person, but it beats lying to your husband. I wouldn't have signed a paper with Jeremy, especially not in the streets-- the fact that Lisa didn't do it as a vindictive thing (against Nick's "no"), doesn't matter at all. Pretty soon, forshadowing, Lisa's business will be all over the streets.
I didn't understand her reluctance to use the Darling name either. I understand that she doesn't like the Darlings and all they've supposedly done to her husband but if there was ever a time to use the name it was then. All she had to do was drop the name she didn't even have to use one of them as a partner because all the realtor asked was for any celeb clients.
That whole scene didn't make sense to me though. Her husband was just named as Tripp Darling's successor. You would think that would be enough pull to get her the gallery. Her husband is a heartbeat away from running a huge multinational corporation and is currently the Darling family attorney. Either she is an idiot for not mentioning her husband or the realtor is completely out of the loop because they made it seem like the announcement of Nick as the successor was huge news all over NY.
#25
Posted Oct 30, 2008 @ 10:37 AM
I think Lisa wanted to originally get the gallery on her own terms without having to use the "do you know who my husband is?" thing. She was resistant to having Jeremy help her until it was practically a done deal. I don't think she was an idiot for not wanting to cash in on the name of the very people who she thinks is hurting her marriage. I think she's an idiot for lying about it.
#26
Posted Oct 30, 2008 @ 10:39 AM
I must be the densest person on earth, so can someone explain to me what Patrick meant when he said this? I know is was something that will come back to bite someone, I just didn't get it.
I'm pretty sure Patrick meant Tripp won't like it once Patrick starts disregarding other people's feelings in order to get his own way. For example, perhaps Patrick will go after Nick's position in Darling Enterprises. Perhaps he'll simply want revenge for driving Carmelita away. Perhaps he'll do anything it takes to get Carmelita back, including letting Clark or Tripp get in trouble for the disposal of Ellen's body.
I think Patrick meant simply that Tripp won't like when he finds his own methods used against him. And Patrick will have his own powerbase. Of all the kids, he's the one who is the most successful and the most independent. As a US Senator who won a difficult race and the next generation's namesake, he'll be in the best position to challenge Tripp if he chooses to.
Tish and Karen
On other topics...Tish was a constant drinker in the pilot. They toned that down a few episodes into S1, but I think now they've just returned to that aspect of her character. She's one of those "functional drunks" who start drinking soon after breakfast and stays a little drunk all day. It's a characterization that can work, but it's tough to pull off without simply going to farce.
On Karen, we do know that the one place in her life where she's showed absolutely zero judgment is in her marriages. Freddy the golfer was just after her money, and Karen didn't see it. Or chose not to see it. She's being an idiot about Simon's mistreatment of her, but it's an idiocy that is 100% consistent with her S1 character. So I'm all right with that.
The Missing Grandson
I agree that the lack of concern over Brian Jr. just made no sense at all. There should have been a lot of Darling fuss and fluster over that. He's lived in their home twice, after all. And Nick should have been concerned. And Brian would never work just with an ordinary cop--he'd have called in the Chief of Police, at least. The only way I can make that whole thing work in my head is to assume that neither Brian nor (is it Angela?) Brian Jr.'s mother wanted the rest of the family to know, so they hadn't told them yet and were keeping it as quiet as possible. But I can't see them doing that cooperatively. So, eh.
I just chalk that whole bit down to bad writing, I'm afraid. In the end, not very important, because it got to where it needed to get to, but honestly I think they could have accomplished exactly the same thing by having Clark drive a frantic Brian over to Angela's house, Brian on the phone the whole time to various people to get help, Angela finding Brian Jr. under the bed or in a park next door before Brian gets there. Explanation of not wanting to hear his parents' fighting. Brian saying he had to get back to Patrick, but they would talk later that night, and "Don't lose him again!" Then he could show up at her house late after the election was called for their talk and go on from there. A kid missing for 10 minutes would generate the same parental reaction and Brian could still have gotten in his "face like a smurf" line on the phone.
Lisa
So I was OK with a lot of the different issues in the episode. The one thing I hate, though, is what they've done to Lisa. She's gone from being sensible, independent, mature, and loving to whiny and self-obsessed. The Lisa who handled the incident with Karen and the shoes would never have handled the gallery space that way. I agree she could have dropped a few names on her own. Her husband is Nick George, the Darling family lawyer, Vice Chair of Darling Enterprises, and on the news 4 times a week. That should have been enough for the building manager. It would have been better to have her say something trivial and unintentional about her husband, have the building manager say, impressed, "Your husband is Nick George? The Darling family lawyer?" have her say, reluctantly, "Yes, but that this isn't about my husband. Or the Darlings." And then have the building manager say "Oh, that's quite a different situation" and then give her the lease. So that she was drawn into the Darling world without wanting to be. The whole thing with Jeremy was contrived and ridiculous, and just made no sense for the character emotionally. Really disliked it.
(crossposted with TarheelJTK on Nick's position, but again wanted to say I think they could have had the realtor recognize Nick even without Lisa wanting him to, and used that in a S1 way.)
And while we're at it, there's no reason at all for Jeremy to be her silent partner. She didn't need money. The guy just wanted to know her client list. Jeremy just had to say he and the other Darling family members relied on Lisa for her art expertise and that was enough. So again, just creating another secret and another way for it to be revealed. Didn't like it.
The episode had its moments, but it just didn't work cohesively for me.
Tripp's Explanations
Oh, on the issue of S2 Tripp vs S1, it finally clicked for me in this episode where I see the difference. As I've mentioned, I'm fine with him being cooler towards the kids right now. And I think he was incredibly devious and manipulative in S1 (after all, he sent his daughter to sleep with his enemy in S1). But in S1, whenever he was caught doing anything manipulative, there was always that moment of sincere hurt that the other person didn't understand he was only doing it out of love. He really wanted them to understand and approve, to get that he was doing what he did for the family. This season he seems to have supreme self confidence, and he doesn't need to other person's buy in in the same emotional way he did before. That was most clear in the Carmelita situation. Tripp talking to Carmelita didn't tell her it was important for Paddy, whom they both loved. Instead, he was bottomline manipulative, that he was interested in sparing her any trouble. Which rang much more false. And then with Paddy, again Tripp didn't say he was doing it for him, doing it out of "a father's love" as he might have in S1. He simply said that having her there would be "unseemly."
I think Tripp's motives really are the same in S1 and S2--his image of what the Darling family should be. But in S1 he spent more time trying to convince people, including Nick, that he was motivated by compassion. Now, those moments are much rarer.
Edited by marty118, Oct 30, 2008 @ 10:42 AM.
#27
Posted Oct 30, 2008 @ 10:44 AM
I'm pretty sure Patrick meant Tripp won't like it once Patrick starts disregarding other people's feelings in order to get his own way. For example, perhaps Patrick will go after Nick's position in Darling Enterprises. Perhaps he'll simply want revenge for driving Carmelita away. Perhaps he'll do anything it takes to get Carmelita back, including letting Clark or Tripp get in trouble for the disposal of Ellen's body.
I think Patrick meant simply that Tripp won't like when he finds his own methods used against him. And Patrick will have his own powerbase. Of all the kids, he's the one who is the most successful and the most independent. As a US Senator who won a difficult race and the next generation's namesake, he'll be in the best position to challenge Tripp if he chooses to.
I partially agree. I think that Patrick will use his power to promote his own agenda but I don't think that agenda has much to do with Darling enterprises but with political issues. I get the feeling that Patrick is interested in making the system work better for the average Joe and is willing to sacrifice some of his families wealth and business interests in order to make that happen. I think that will run counter to what Tripp wants.
#28
Posted Oct 30, 2008 @ 11:33 AM
Precisely.I don't think [Lisa] was an idiot for not wanting to cash in on the name of the very people who she thinks is hurting her marriage. I think she's an idiot for lying about it.
#29
Posted Oct 30, 2008 @ 11:38 AM
Carmelita and Brian Jr. seem to be the only characters right now with any sense.
Everyone else was either in the deep end of the compromised morality pool already, or diving in as fast as they could: Nick doing his best impression of manipulative Tripp (Thank you Anvil, oh, sorry, Chase, for pointing that out), Lisa lying and going behind Nick’s back, Jeremy lying and maneuvering, Nola bending the rules, Patrick choosing the oddest times to pontificate about the moral high ground while lying to Carmelita, etc, etc,
We didn’t see much of Nola’s reality-challenged wardrobe/apartment this week, but lest the we think the show was suddenly grounded in reality, we got Jeremy and Lisa voting at the same poll location. (with him in line with absolutely no fanfare/paparazzi, even as he chats up a pretty brunette) Really? Really?
I can see Nick being opposed to Lisa getting support from Jeremy (what with her making out in the street with Jeremy and all) but thought his reaction to her in the restaurant was way out of line (“I won't allow it!" It seemed out of character, and more in line with how Simon was treating Karen than what we’ve seen of Nick in the past with anyone. We’ve seen him aggravated, frustrated, angry and sarcastic before, but this bombastic caveman act just does not seem to fit.
One small suggestion for the Georges: when you’re trying to have a meaningful conversation and focus on the person in front of you, turn off your phone. (The kurfluffles during therapy and Karen wigging on Nick could have been prevented or contained by continuing the conversations without interruption). Though the scene with Lisa ignoring Jeremy’s call and Nick’s reaction was great. Count me as one who totally believes Nick was using Jeremy’s phone, hoping for the best but realizing the worst (kind of like Tripp with the briefcase combination) We got to see that the Lisa/Jeremy partnership came out of a chance encounter, but Nick didn’t. For all he knows, Lisa and Jeremy have been in contact right along, playing him.
Oh, and Karen. Karen, Karen, Karen…what is this woman thinking? After the slapdown in Simon’s crowded boardroom that she’s even thinking of spending another moment with him, much less marrying him, is insane. And her scene at Tripp’s bedside really killed any hope that she’s playing Simon. And she was so freaking weepy while accepting Simon's 'proposal'. Yuk!
I’m with all of you who loved the “He’s four feet tall with a face like a smurf” comment from Brian. At least there was one thing to laugh at this week (didn’t this show used to be wickedly funny? Like a more serious hour-long Arrested Development? I’ll have to break out my DVD’s for a refresher.)
Edited to correct my mis-quote of Nick's jackassy line: It wasn't "I forbid it!”, it was "I won't allow it!". (It's still jackassy, though.)
Everyone else was either in the deep end of the compromised morality pool already, or diving in as fast as they could: Nick doing his best impression of manipulative Tripp (Thank you Anvil, oh, sorry, Chase, for pointing that out), Lisa lying and going behind Nick’s back, Jeremy lying and maneuvering, Nola bending the rules, Patrick choosing the oddest times to pontificate about the moral high ground while lying to Carmelita, etc, etc,
We didn’t see much of Nola’s reality-challenged wardrobe/apartment this week, but lest the we think the show was suddenly grounded in reality, we got Jeremy and Lisa voting at the same poll location. (with him in line with absolutely no fanfare/paparazzi, even as he chats up a pretty brunette) Really? Really?
ITA. She might not have even needed Jeremy as a partner, and even if she did I think the whole ‘Lisa and Jeremy are partners’ thing would work much better if Lisa had actually pursued it out of desperation at the possibility of losing her dream, rather than having Jeremy talk her into it. The way it is it keeps her in a passive role even as she’s trying to be independent.What I don't get is why Lisa didn't consider throwing around the Darling name in the first place
I can see Nick being opposed to Lisa getting support from Jeremy (what with her making out in the street with Jeremy and all) but thought his reaction to her in the restaurant was way out of line (“I won't allow it!" It seemed out of character, and more in line with how Simon was treating Karen than what we’ve seen of Nick in the past with anyone. We’ve seen him aggravated, frustrated, angry and sarcastic before, but this bombastic caveman act just does not seem to fit.
Thank you, sandman, for that.Nick needs to stop watching Mad Men, clearly.
One small suggestion for the Georges: when you’re trying to have a meaningful conversation and focus on the person in front of you, turn off your phone. (The kurfluffles during therapy and Karen wigging on Nick could have been prevented or contained by continuing the conversations without interruption). Though the scene with Lisa ignoring Jeremy’s call and Nick’s reaction was great. Count me as one who totally believes Nick was using Jeremy’s phone, hoping for the best but realizing the worst (kind of like Tripp with the briefcase combination) We got to see that the Lisa/Jeremy partnership came out of a chance encounter, but Nick didn’t. For all he knows, Lisa and Jeremy have been in contact right along, playing him.
Oh, and Karen. Karen, Karen, Karen…what is this woman thinking? After the slapdown in Simon’s crowded boardroom that she’s even thinking of spending another moment with him, much less marrying him, is insane. And her scene at Tripp’s bedside really killed any hope that she’s playing Simon. And she was so freaking weepy while accepting Simon's 'proposal'. Yuk!
I’m with all of you who loved the “He’s four feet tall with a face like a smurf” comment from Brian. At least there was one thing to laugh at this week (didn’t this show used to be wickedly funny? Like a more serious hour-long Arrested Development? I’ll have to break out my DVD’s for a refresher.)
Edited to correct my mis-quote of Nick's jackassy line: It wasn't "I forbid it!”, it was "I won't allow it!". (It's still jackassy, though.)
Edited by ImNotLeesa, Oct 30, 2008 @ 8:41 PM.
#30
Posted Oct 30, 2008 @ 11:49 AM
Nick's practically a Darling, he's got a big boat, named new VP of the company, is he not being paid? Why couldn't Lisa just pay with that money? Nick should have enough for a lease if not more. Lisa's just an idiot period.
Edited by Pixels, Oct 30, 2008 @ 11:50 AM.
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